I hate people who diss Arts

corcaighabu92

I hate people who are like this. What the **** is wrong with them. Ok, fair enough with an Arts degree you might find it difficult to get employment but that doesnt mean it is an easy course. Maybe they should see what its like to do all those essays.

Pi^2

Chill out dude. Happy Christmas.

TanG411

I take the jokes with a pinch of salt.
What makes people assume it's an easy course is the amount of hours. I only have 13 hours a week with English and Maths Studies. However, it does take work. For anyone to get a 1st or a high 2.1, it does take a lot of reading for English, plus a lot of practise and revision for Maths. Plus those subjects are from different depratments altogether, so timetable clashes are common (I couldn't go to one of my maths tutorials because I had English at the time). If they don't clash, then you have a lot of running around to do to get between lectures in time.

Whoops, I'm going off topic ranting about my subjects. To the OP, just brush off the jokes. We probably have a better chance finding a job then someone with an engineering degree.

smokingman

Larkin91 wrote: »

We probably have a better chance finding a job then someone with an engineering degree.

'Course you do, McDonalds are always looking for someone to clean the jacks!

TanG411

smokingman wrote: »

'Course you do, McDonalds are always looking for someone to clean the jacks!

Better then getting the dole.

I think.

Monty Burnz

Larkin91 wrote: »

We probably have a better chance finding a job then someone with an engineering degree.

English you are studying, is it?

Bonzo-Reborn

in fairness there are very little hours, it's the library hours that are put in which determine how difficult or easy you make the course. People breeze through arts with 2:2's and don't mind...those who want a 2:1 or 1:1 average work a lot harder than students in some other courses. Reading time is what gets me, researching for a month for an essay and then retpying it maybe three times to make sure you get the grade...whats heartbreaking is when you do this some idiot can walk into the library the due date, open a book and write an essay. It might not be as good but theyll still pass. Thats what boils my blood.

This has sort of turned into an arts rant thread.

Plautus

To echo what others have said: anyone who is seriously suggesting that Arts is a waste of time, or a 'doss' isn't fair-minded or worth paying attention to. The good news, I suppose, is that most people making the slur don't really seriously intend it.

Certainly, any engineering, pharmacy, architecture or law graduate holding forth same is a black hole of hubris if they aren't joking. Those sectors are dead at present and yet would have been tipped highly as 'productive' or 'employable' in the last decade. If anything, the highly vocational and specialized nature of those degrees will make it difficult for those graduates to acquire a completely different set of qualifications without time and money on their side.

Humanities never offered easy jobs, lucre/what-have-you - simply the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake to broaden the mind. Many are the students studying non-humanities subjects whose ignorance of the world around them (past or present) is either shockingly simplistic or non-existent. The benefit of a humanities degree can be evidenced in their ignorance (willful or otherwise.) Naturally, I speak in generalities; and likewise my complete ignorance of how to make buildings safe, undertake judicial review or tell you about the workings of mitochondriae demonstrates the serious benefit of non-humanities disciplines.

As for it being possible to coast through a humanities degree: sure. Consequently pass or low-honours grades (thirds or 2:2) aren't rated too highly within the disciplines that make up Arts.

TanG411

Monty Burnz wrote: »

English you are studying, is it?

Ya I does English. Why?

UpTheSlashers

Larkin91 wrote: »

Ya I does English. Why?

No reasons, just axing.

PhatPiggins

Doesn't matter much what primary degree you do any more as the majority are doing postgrads.

Showing my age here but when I was a kid the leaving cert was everything, by the time I got to uni (the first time) get your degree and your good to go, now unless your in a specialised area a masters is a minimum before a lot of employers will even consider you.

rebel girl 15

corcaighabu92 wrote: »

I hate people who are like this. What the **** is wrong with them. Ok, fair enough with an Arts degree you might find it difficult to get employment but that doesnt mean it is an easy course. Maybe they should see what its like to do all those essays.

And every other course doesn't have those essays??

You really shouldn't leave things get to you like the other posters doing arts. I agree with Phat - you need a masters to get work, I'll prob end up doing one either straight after I finish if I don't get employment or doing one part time.

dregin

Larkin91 wrote: »

We probably have a better chance finding a job then someone with an engineering degree.

You're studying English and came out with THAT? Sorry, but you have bigger problems than someone slagging your course.

KnifeWRENCH

dregin wrote: »

You're studying English and came out with THAT? Sorry, but you have bigger problems than someone slagging your course.

Yes, yes....he used "then" instead of "than". Crime of the century.

Get over it and move on, people. No more picking apart another user's spelling or grammar.

Pi^2

Yes, yes....he used "then" instead of "than". Crime of the century.

Get over it and move on, people. No more picking apart another user's spelling or grammar.

I think the issue is that an arts student does not have a better chance of finding a job than someone with an engineering degree.


I think Arts is a waste of time, purely because college in general is a waste of time.

x43r0

Pi^2 wrote: »

I think Arts is a waste of time, purely because college in general is a waste of time.

ffs, seriously?




Anyway, I don't see the arts degree as the main value but the person that it produces. Now more than ever I see companies using personality as a key factor in whether an applicant becomes a new hire.

I'm going into the grad programme for an investment bank next summer and along with myself (comp sci + BIS masters - fair enough specific enough courses) they've hired a music student and a philosophy graduate

ReacherCreature

Pi^2 wrote: »

I think the issue is that an arts student does not have a better chance of finding a job than someone with an engineering degree.


I think Arts is a waste of time, purely because college in general is a waste of time.

Enlighten us wise one.

Pi^2

Enlighten us wise one.

I'm merely pointing out that college is hopelessly inefficient. And this goes for all education institutions so I'm not taking a pop at our UCC in particular.

I'm not necessarily saying that spending 3 or 4 years to get a piece of paper is a waste of time.


...but it is.

FoxT

corcaighabu92 wrote: »

I hate people who are like this. What the **** is wrong with them. Ok, fair enough with an Arts degree you might find it difficult to get employment but that doesnt mean it is an easy course. Maybe they should see what its like to do all those essays.

Ohh, my! Lets have a quick look...

"Ok, fair enough with an Arts degree you might find it difficult to get employment"... ever thought there might be a valid reason for this? What can an arts graduate actually do? or , to rephrase, What can an arts graduate actually do, that will generate money for his/her employer?

"but that doesnt mean it is an easy course" ... hard course, or are ye thick? discuss!

"Maybe they should see what its like to do all those essays." This is the best Laugh out Loud moment I have had on boards today! You really ought to say this at your next job interview!!! Absolutely deadly!

rebel girl 15

Pi^2 wrote: »

I'm merely pointing out that college is hopelessly inefficient. And this goes for all education institutions so I'm not taking a pop at our UCC in particular.

I'm not necessarily saying that spending 3 or 4 years to get a piece of paper is a waste of time.


...but it is.

And would that opinion of yours cover lower education as well as higher education - that education is a waste altogether?? All education institutions is a pretty sweeping statement - care to back that up with hard fact, or were you talking solely about higher education?

FoxT

I think that arts courses do have value. They offer real opportunities to develop an understanding of culture, Fine Art, Communications, History, and other subjects. I am sure that many people, including myself, would relish the opportunity to study at least some of these to degree level.

In my view it is also fair to say that employers generally underestimate the value that Arts Graduates with the right attitude can bring to the workplace.




The big tripwire in the OP is the statement that

"Maybe they should see what its like to do all those essays."

This whinging serves only to enforce the popular stereotype that Arts Students are the indigent & sometime illegitimate progeny of the idle rich. I don't know where you are in your studies but clearly you have not absorbed enough to put forward a sound argument. While you are slaving over all those difficult essays, what are your colleagues in engineering, med., Law, etc., doing?


Finally, UCC, in my view, uses its arts curriculum as a cynical business endeavour. They attract students who either do not know what their vocation is, or, who come from overseas for a good milking of eu10-20k per annum. The arts faculty there is notorious for internecine warfare amongst its staff, which often ends up before the higher courts at huge expense.
For the latest wheeze , google "fruitbatgate".

You can be assured that as College fees rise, parents will start demanding real value for money. Even though I live in Cork, UCC would by no means be my first choice of third level college for any of my children.

allprops

Wasn't fruitbatgate a science affair?

FoxT

Hmmm, I must concede that minor point. He is in fact, a Lecturer in Behavioural Science. I wonder if he sets hard essays for his students?

FoxT

Pi^2 wrote: »

I'm merely pointing out that college is hopelessly inefficient. And this goes for all education institutions so I'm not taking a pop at our UCC in particular.

I'm not necessarily saying that spending 3 or 4 years to get a piece of paper is a waste of time.


...but it is.

I agree with the first sentence, 100%

With regard to the second sentence, I hold that "spending 3 or 4 years to get a piece of paper is a waste of time" is also absolutely true. If you are passionate about your subject, you will succeed. If you are doing it just to get the piece of paper, you would be better off quitting college & doing what you love.

Byron85

FoxT wrote: »

This whinging serves only to enforce the popular stereotype that Arts Students are the indigent & sometime illegitimate progeny of the idle rich. I don't know where you are in your studies but clearly you have not absorbed enough to put forward a sound argument. While you are slaving over all those difficult essays, what are your colleagues in engineering, med., Law, etc., doing?


Finally, UCC, in my view, uses its arts curriculum as a cynical business endeavour. They attract students who either do not know what their vocation is, or, who come from overseas for a good milking of eu10-20k per annum. The arts faculty there is notorious for internecine warfare amongst its staff, which often ends up before the higher courts at huge expense.
For the latest wheeze , google "fruitbatgate".

You can be assured that as College fees rise, parents will start demanding real value for money. Even though I live in Cork, UCC would by no means be my first choice of third level college for any of my children.

Indeed. I get driven up to the gates every morning in my Bentley. ReacherCreature has his own personal lear jet. He's old money whereas i'm only new money unfortunately.

Also, I hope you realise that Arts covers a wide range of subjects.

ReacherCreature

Pi^2 wrote: »

I'm merely pointing out that college is hopelessly inefficient. And this goes for all education institutions so I'm not taking a pop at our UCC in particular.

I'm not necessarily saying that spending 3 or 4 years to get a piece of paper is a waste of time.


...but it is.

That is a rubbish argument for an 'anti-college' sentiment.

Pi^2

That is a rubbish argument for an 'anti-college' sentiment.

Indeed, any lone statement is a rubbish argument. I'm not anti-college, I merely consider its implementation to be sub optimal. I'll throw a few suggestions out there so.

Efficiency

Most of the modules I have taken in UCC are 2 classes a week, i.e. 24 one hour lectures a term. What is stopping these 24 hours being presented in a 2 or 3 day intensive course early on in the year? Why does a relatively small amount of material have to be dragged out so much?

Why do I have to wait for a lecturer to hand out his notes throughout the year? And likewise for taking down notes off the white board. I would read ahead if I actually had the material. Of course I do "read ahead" by spending time reading relevant books and online resources. But, invariably I end up going too deep into a topic or unbeknownst to me the lecturer will treat a topic slightly differently (by the time he/she covers it in a few weeks time).

Here's another caveat I have with college. Suppose I am prepared to take one of my summer exams right now. Like, I have a real interest in a particular module and I am always studying it in my own time and I'm absolutely ready to ace the exam. I have to wait months to take it. Think about that - what is actually preventing me from taking it now?

Some of you are thinking "hold on, everyone has to take the exam at the same time. that's standardisation". But where, for instance, is the standardisation between a student who takes an exam last May and a student who takes the same exam next May? Someday those two students could be up against each other for the same job... and, assuming the exams were not identical, objectively one of them must have been easier. That's some standardisation right there. Consider that example for the leaving cert too. So in answer to my "what is preventing me from taking it now" question... Convention. An unwillingness to rock the boat.

The two aspects of college

There are two types of people in the world, those who divide things into two types and those who don't. I consider college to be an amalgamation of two things - a playground and a place of learning. I do believe both aspects are important and inseparable but I think the correct balance is not being struck in UCC.

The general vibe I get is that you have to go out and actively have fun and the hard work and study will just happen. Whereas it would be nicer if hard work was what was actively sought after and fun is gonna happen anyway. I've probably worded this all wrong, but it might be summed up by the following example: If instead of a pretty girl handing me a flier for Gorby's she handed me a flier saying "All your classmates are studying really hard, even if they say they're not".

Where is the culture of one-up-man-ship and academic competition? For once I would like to hear two UCC students arguing about who will do better in the next exam as opposed to who will drink more alcohol once the exam is finished.

Eliot Rosewater

Pi^2 wrote: »

Most of the modules I have taken in UCC are 2 classes a week, i.e. 24 one hour lectures a term. What is stopping these 24 hours being presented in a 2 or 3 day intensive course early on in the year? Why does a relatively small amount of material have to be dragged out so much?

I think that's just the way Universities have evolved. I suppose theoretically your free time is supposed to be spent studying and broadening your mind.

Whatever about the timing issues, I'd much prefer if a notion that you can/should investigate things in your spare time was built into modules. For example, I do a course in C++ computer programming. We have an assignment for after Christmas that involves writing a computer program to work with maths matrices. Having done a bit of C++ in my spare time I know that the way the lecturer has asked for the program to be written is conceptually very poor. But I can't really bring my own research to the table and do it the better way, as I have to toe the line and do things the way the lecturer has told me to.

In another one of our modules, Chaos, we're given a free hand in some questions to do whatever we want (within the field, of course!) which is nice.

Pi^2 wrote: »

Where is the culture of one-up-man-ship and academic competition? For once I would like to hear two UCC students arguing about who will do better in the next exam as opposed to will drink more alcohol once the exam is finished.

I know this is totally politically incorrect (and perhaps a little insulting to some), but I don't the huge influx of people into university as being necessarily good. Traditionally universities were solely academic institutions and this created an academic ethos and environment that fertilised intellectual development. Nowadays college is primarily seen amongst a lot of people as a place for craic, instead of a place to develop and widen your mind.

Unfortunately once government (and societal) policy is to shove as many people as possible into university, regardless of whether they are of an academic bent, this isn't going to change.

x43r0

FoxT wrote: »

The arts faculty there is notorious for internecine warfare amongst its staff, which often ends up before the higher courts at huge expense.
For the latest wheeze , google "fruitbatgate".

That particular case occurred between two staff working in the faculty of medicine

Pi^2

I think that's just the way Universities have evolved.

I agree, but I think that is the bad type of evolution, i.e. The reactive type rather than the active. Something akin to the music industry not keeping up with/resisting modern technology and now look at the state of it.

I suppose theoretically your free time is supposed to be spent studying and broadening your mind.

Point taken. But how free is this free time? For instance, with your programming example - you could be making significant progress with your approach to the problem and in the back of your mind you're thinking "he might fail me for not doing exactly what he wants".

It's the same for studying, you can be studying and enjoying a subject matter but in the back of your mind you have to wonder "as enlightening as this is, will I be examined on it at all". And then comes the decision, "should I bother learning this because it's useful for my understanding of this subject and possibly useful to my career, or is it useless because it won't be on the test tomorrow".


So, I ask, what is better, to get a thorough education by exploting all the available resources to you, really mastering your field and applying your knowledge of it and receive a 2.2 degree in the end. Or get a 1.1 by cramming exam papers and focusing all your attention on what is examinable and ignoring everything else?


I would personally rather the education and the 2.2. But as I was trying to say earlier, if I had all the lecturers notes early on in the year, I could work that into my attempt to actually learn the subject. Hence a 1.1 and the great education would be much more attainable.

I know this is totally politically incorrect (and perhaps a little insulting to some), but I don't the huge influx of people into university as being necessarily good. Traditionally universities were solely academic institutions and this created an academic ethos and environment that fertilised intellectual development. Nowadays college is primarily seen amongst a lot of people as a place for craic, instead of a place to develop and widen your mind.

Unfortunately once government (and societal) policy is to shove as many people as possible into university, regardless of whether they are of an academic bent, this isn't going to change.

You're on the ball there. The initial instinct is to think "it's wonderful that more people are going to college". Is it wonderful when someone pours more water in your Ribena?

Steba

Pi^2 wrote: »

You're on the ball there. The initial instinct is to think "it's wonderful that more people are going to college". Is it wonderful when someone pours more water in your Ribena?

Wiki wrote:

Ireland has one of the best education systems in the world according to the independent IMD World Competitiveness Yearbook 2009 (ranks 8th)

I know thats almost 2 years old, but....We can't be doing much wrong if we'r ranked 8th?

rebel girl 15

Steba wrote: »

I know thats almost 2 years old, but....We can't be doing much wrong if we'r ranked 8th?

Latest PISA/OECD reports (2009) show that Ireland have dropped from 5th to 17th for reading levels, and from 16th to 26th for maths, stayed 13th in science. And there is a huge question mark over the validity of the statistics from 2006, that they were inflated through some different techniques - that 8th place is far from accurate imo!

Pi^2, the fault does not lie with the universities alone - look at the secondary education people receive here which creates the culture of learning for the sake of exams rather than learning to broaden your mind etc. Your argument could b made for the leaving cert, do I want 400 points but a broad education or get 550 by cramming? The way I see it, the exams are a mean to get a mark not an education, its a method of getting somewhere to do something else. But after the education system is finished i.e. graduate uni, what are you left with? Learning is for life, not just for university and school

the higher numbers in college are because we as a nation require higher education standards to employ people - 15/20 years ago, you could a variety of decent jobs after your leaving, whereas now you need a degree and many cases a masters before you become employable

TanG411

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

Yes, yes....he used "then" instead of "than". Crime of the century.

Get over it and move on, people. No more picking apart another user's spelling or grammar.

Bunch of Grammar Nazis the whole lot of them!

Pi^2

Pi^2, the fault does not lie with the universities alone - look at the secondary education people receive here which creates the culture of learning for the sake of exams rather than learning to broaden your mind etc.

I am well aware of the state of secondary education. I give grinds to Junior and Leaving Cert kids. Mostly maths and science. I don't ever use their textbooks or past papers. I discuss the maths and physics behind time travel, nuclear fusion, robots and sci fi films like the Matrix with them (and I stealthily throw in a few problems here and there too!).

Then they fall in love with the subject and study it themselves. And that's the problem with education. I'm showing the kids the subject and it's inherent potential, I'm not telling them what to do or limiting their applications of the subject.

They say stuff like "they never tell us this in school" and it kills me. Is it because teachers are so fixated on the exams ... or... is it because the teachers are not masters of the subject themsleves and thus are not capable of playing with it and portraying it in a manner beyond the form presented in the textbooks.

This raises the issue. Is your lecturer good at teaching a subject, or is he/she simply good at the subject?

This brings the topic back to dissing arts because it produces some useless secondary school teahers Man I hate Arts! ...only messing.

Eliot Rosewater

Pi^2 wrote: »

So, I ask, what is better, to get a thorough education by exploting all the available resources to you, really mastering your field and applying your knowledge of it and receive a 2.2 degree in the end. Or get a 1.1 by cramming exam papers and focusing all your attention on what is examinable and ignoring everything else?

Can't you get both?

I think that being passionate about what you're studying in college does benefit your grades. You're not going to like everything you do, of course, but there is that spill-over effect, especially with technical degrees like ours (yes, I stalked you. Linux rocks.).

Pi^2 wrote: »

This raises the issue. Is your lecturer good at teaching a subject, or is he/she simply good at the subject?

Lecturers' primary job is research, and this does show. I suppose the main retort is that you're supposed to be old enough to grasp the material yourself ... okay, I don't actually like being devil's advocate!

Pi^2 wrote: »

They say stuff like "they never tell us this in school" and it kills me. Is it because teachers are so fixated on the exams ... or... is it because the teachers are not masters of the subject themsleves and thus are not capable of playing with it and portraying it in a manner beyond the form presented in the textbooks.

I'd say the exam mindset is major enough (ie anything that won't help in an exam is superfluous and thus not to be taught). Even if a teacher were to be creative there wouldn't be any benefit at the end of the day. His super-interested maths students would still get the same LC points, and start off on the undergrad ladder at the same place.

Maths and science can definitely be made interesting. For example, you could do a whole section on the connections between maths (boolean algebra) electronic engineering, applications in computer science and logic in general, even non-strictly-scientific logic (for example, philosophical reasoning).

I found that once I started looking into seemingly disparate things I saw all these connections. For example, many mathematical proofs are based on the same reasoning as Plato's Republic (make a statement which is then deemed true only when all objections have been dealt with.) But this is more general knowledge mainly for its own sake, and as such not something that can be examined.

Pi^2

Pna'g lbh trg obgu?

V ernyvfr gung'f whfg n wbxr, ohg V'yy whfg fnl, bs pbhefr V xabj gung lbh pna unir obgu naq ybnqf bs crbcyr qb. V'z whfg fnlvat pbyyrtr pbhyq or n yvggyr zber rssvpvrag, zber orarsvpvny, zber cebqhpgvir naq trarenyyl rnfvre jvgubhg qhzovat guvatf qbja be pnhfvat tenqr vasyngvba. Naq, nf jr nterr, vg pbhyq or n ybg zber erjneqvat naq rapbhentvat bs bevtvany jbex.

Jbnu! Yrff fgnyxvat! Gung fcvyy bire rssrpg vf gur ohfvarff nyevtug.

Znguf naq fpvrapr pna qrsvavgryl or znqr vagrerfgvat. Sbe rknzcyr, lbh pbhyq qb n jubyr frpgvba ba gur pbaarpgvbaf orgjrra znguf (obbyrna nytroen) ryrpgebavp ratvarrevat, nccyvpngvbaf va pbzchgre fpvrapr naq ybtvp va trareny, rira aba-fgevpgyl-fpvragvsvp ybtvp (sbe rknzcyr, cuvybfbcuvpny ernfbavat).

Vg'f znq nyevtug, lbh pna trg ernyyl qrrc vagb gur zngrzngvpny haqrecvaavatf bs neg (engvbf, unezbavpf) naq cuvybfbcul (ybtvp, pbzcyrkvgl gerrf) naq ynathntr (rapbqvat,pbzcerffvba, ragebcl). Naq gura guvatf yvxr senpgnyf naq pryyhyne nhgbzngn naq pbzchgnovyvgl naq ghevat grfgf/negvsvpny vagryyvtrapr naq punbf gurbel fubj hf ubj crbcyr naq pebjqf pna bcrengr irel cerqvpgnoyl. Naq gur qrrcre lbh trg qbja vagb dhnaghz gurbel naq fgevat gurbel, gur jbeyq fgnegf gb srry yvxr n fvzhyngvba.

Yrg, K=Fpvrapr fghqragf
Yrg, L=Negf Fghqragf

Naq gura lbh ernyvfr gung K gbgnyyl haqrefgnaq K naq guvf havirefr va trareny naq jr gbgnyyl haqrefgnaq L orpnhfr gurl ner zreryl yvivat va n iveghnyvfrq jbeyq yvxr jura lbh hfr IZJner gb obbg hc Yvahk vafvqr Jvaqbjf.

Gung vf, vg'f yvxr K ner va gur havirefny frg naq L yvir va gurve gval fhofrg jurer gurl znxr gurfr ehyrf jurer gurl pna or vzcbegnag naq vfbyngrq. Naq K ernyvfr ubj gevivny jr ner naq jr'er pbby jvgu gung.

Naq gung'f jul negf vf ehoovfu. Vg'f n whfg na negvsvpny frys pbagnvarq iveghny flfgrz. Vg bppnfvbanyyl cbcf fbzr L vagb gur havirefny frg naq gurl'er pbzcyrgryl birejuryzrq. Lbh pna cbc K vagb gur negf jbeyq ohg K jvyy whfg fgneg sylvat nebhaq, qvfborlvat gur ybpny ynjf orpnhfr gurl xabj vgf n srroyr pbafgehpg.

Serr lbhe zvaq. Hfr ab jnl nf jnl, unir ab yvzvgngvba nf yvzvgngvba.

V'q fnl gur rknz zvaqfrg vf znwbe rabhtu (vr nalguvat gung jba'g uryc va na rknz vf fhcresyhbhf naq guhf abg gb or gnhtug). Rira vs n grnpure jrer gb or perngvir gurer jbhyqa'g or nal orarsvg ng gur raq bs gur qnl. Uvf fhcre-vagrerfgrq znguf fghqragf jbhyq fgvyy trg gur fnzr YP cbvagf, naq fgneg bss ba gur haqretenq ynqqre ng gur fnzr cynpr.

Lbh fnl gung abj, ohg jurer jbhyq lbh or jvgubhg gur srj perngvir naq raguhfvnfgvp grnpuref jub tbg lbh gb jurer lbh ner gbqnl?!


Pbatenghyngvbaf ernqre, ba penpxvat gur zbfg qvssvphyg pbqr xabja gb zna.

UnionOfV

Pi^2 wrote: »

Naq gung'f jul negf vf ehoovfu. Vg'f n whfg na negvsvpny frys pbagnvarq iveghny flfgrz. Vg bppnfvbanyyl cbcf fbzr L vagb gur havirefny frg naq gurl'er pbzcyrgryl birejuryzrq. Lbh pna cbc K vagb gur negf jbeyq ohg K jvyy whfg fgneg sylvat nebhaq, qvfborlvat gur ybpny ynjf orpnhfr gurl xabj vgf n srroyr pbafgehpg.

Nicely observed. And bringing it back to the employment issue, once K has been raised in an environment which allows K to quickly adapt to their future employment, while L have lived through a far more academic education, far removed from any working environment. It's almost as if L were not expected to enter industry after their degree.

In fact, having sat in on many first-year arts lectures, I keep finding myself wondering what exactly is this sought-after skillset that some arts students say they have. While employers do generally value people who bring in a fresh vision, they still need a relevant skillset. I only have experienced a minute sector of the industry, I admit, but from what I can see IT companies value mathematicians and financial groups value engineers, both for the valid qualifications they can bring to the company. No arts module I've seen would be valid in either.

Pi^2 wrote: »

Pbatenghyngvbaf ernqre, ba penpxvat gur zbfg qvssvphyg pbqr xabja gb zna.

Hardly!

FoxT

And the reason for the alternating substitution cypher is?

Byron85

FoxT wrote: »

And the reason for the alternating substitution cypher is?

To demonstrate just how dumb us mere Arts students are of course. Personally, I can barely read. I have no idea what i'm typing right now actually. Now I must be off to the Sociology Department to hand in some of my nonsensical and useless writings.;):D

Eliot Rosewater

Pi^2, I think you're tripping over yourself a little. On the one hand you're making the (good) argument that university should be about getting a rounded education instead of merely doing a course. But then you're dismissing Arts, which was designed with the goal of providing such a broad education. I think you're working off generalized stereotypes of Arts. These stereotypes do seem to be fair enough in describing the "lower" echelons of Arts students, but you have to admit that there are Arts students who are as passionate about their subject as you and I are about maths and Linux (despite your VMware heresy!).

FoxT wrote: »

And the reason for the alternating substitution cypher is?

You never accepted me as a friend on BookMooch! (Pi^2 has my back.)

Byron85

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Pi^2, I think you're tripping over yourself a little. On the one hand you're making the (good) argument that university should be about getting a rounded education instead of merely doing a course. But then you're dismissing Arts, which was designed with the goal of providing such a broad education. I think you're working off generalized stereotypes of Arts. These stereotypes do seem to be fair enough in describing the "lower" echelons of Arts students, but you have to admit that there are Arts students who are as passionate about their subject as you and I are about maths and Linux (despite your VMware heresy!).



You never accepted me as a friend on BookMooch! (Pi^2 has my back.)

I used Linux once before and god was it tedious. I'm a Mac person now though so I have a better appreciation for it now. Not related to the thread topic at all but just though i'd throw it in! :P

FoxT

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

You never accepted me as a friend on BookMooch! (Pi^2 has my back.)

Oops - completely forgot about that :eek: Brought a box of them into Oxfam last weekend... still have a few though... will ping you after Christmas.

I do have a copy of Crime & Punishment lying around, might be appropriate in the circumstances....

FoxT

Byron85 wrote: »

Indeed. I get driven up to the gates every morning in my Bentley. ReacherCreature has his own personal lear jet. He's old money whereas i'm only new money unfortunately.

Also, I hope you realise that Arts covers a wide range of subjects.

I do realise that, indeed.

Do ye fall into the indigent or illegitimate category?

rebel girl 15

FoxT wrote: »

And the reason for the alternating substitution cypher is?

Showing off or just to annoy everyone

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Pi^2, I think you're tripping over yourself a little. On the one hand you're making the (good) argument that university should be about getting a rounded education instead of merely doing a course. But then you're dismissing Arts, which was designed with the goal of providing such a broad education. I think you're working off generalized stereotypes of Arts. These stereotypes do seem to be fair enough in describing the "lower" echelons of Arts students, but you have to admit that there are Arts students who are as passionate about their subject as you and I are about maths and Linux (despite your VMware heresy!).

I have to agree with that statement - think a lot of people here are working off them

Pi^2

And the reason for the alternating substitution cypher is?

There were a few reasons for the cypher.

1. I thought it would be a laugh.
2. I thought some people might enjoy it. Which they did.
3. I thought some people might be inspired to "break" the code. Which they were.
4. I wasn't too confident about what I had written as it was a bit overly nerdy so instead of just not posting it as it was, I figured I'd give people the option to work for the information within if they wanted it.
5. It was a social experiment.

Showing off or just to annoy everyone

I forgive you rebel girl 15. I understand that it is easier to insult someone than it is to consider things from their perspective.

Having said that, you were correct. I was indeed showing off. I was exhibiting how some people rise to a challenge and embrace lateral thinking and tackle/solve the problem. While others get narky.

Incidentally the title of this thread is "I hate people who diss Arts". You wouldn't catch me saying "I hate people who diss Science". Some people rise to a challenge. While others get narky.

Pi^2, I think you're tripping over yourself a little. On the one hand you're making the (good) argument that university should be about getting a rounded education instead of merely doing a course. But then you're dismissing Arts, which was designed with the goal of providing such a broad education. I think you're working off generalized stereotypes of Arts. These stereotypes do seem to be fair enough in describing the "lower" echelons of Arts students, but you have to admit that there are Arts students who are as passionate about their subject as you and I are about maths and Linux (despite your VMware heresy!).

I have to agree with that statement - think a lot of people here are working off them

I see your point about the generalized stereotypes and I raise you:

Stereotyping and stratification of a group is a necessary evil, since no human has the time or the knowledge to consider each individual in the group (unless its a small group!). So I use stereotypes because I must. I don't believe anything I have said indicates that I have made a mistake in my evaluation and that I am accidentally only describing the lower echelons.

Perhaps I have, but I regard any sweeping statement I have made to be about my attempted evaluation of an average Arts student which is one of the only meaningful approximations by which to consider a group.

Obviously our definition of the average is going to be different. But If my average is your lower echelons, then I have yet to meet anyone from your upper echelons! (Though this raises the issue of the scale of our own range of evaluation. Like when I say I'm feeling fine is that the same as you saying you're feeling sad.)

Oh and Arts may well have been designed to provide a broad education... but that does not mean it has been maintained for the same purpose.


Oh and here, Rosewater, I see how using VMware makes me a bit of a heretic, but I swear I'm actually dualbooting Windows 7, and Linux Mint. It's just sometimes I like to have them both open on different monitors at the same time and VMware allows this!

I used Linux once before and god was it tedious.

It feels a bit scrappy for a while alright. The rate at which the user-friendliness is accelerating is mind-boggling though. Can't wait to see what Mint and Ubuntu feel like in a few years time.


Isn't this thread exciting?! I'd love for the original poster to tell us how he feels now. Where ever you are man, we love you and we respect Arts.

Byron85

I'm not entirely sure I can even begin to respond to that without getting an infraction.

Pi^2

You really aren't doing yourself any favours either though as all you're doing is coming across as arrogant. I can speak some Polish. That doesn't mean i'm going to start writing in Polish on here as part of an "experiment in lateral thinking". Pull the other one.

Here, post in whatever language you want. I won't complain, I'll just lash it into google translate. Hang on, I didn't say "experiment in lateral thinking". I certainly used the word experiment and the phrase lateral thinking because they were applicable in context.

Experiment: the act of conducting a controlled test or investigation.

Lateral thinking: a heuristic for solving problems; you try to look at the problem from many angles instead of tackling it head-on.


You touched a nerve with "arrogant". Perhaps my wording hasn't always been the best but I'm dissappointed that you perceive me in such a way. I don't think I'm superior to anybody and I'm embaressed if that is how I have come across.

So to avoid any further misconceptions, I'm gonna leave this discussion.


Thanks everyone, it has sincerely been enlightening. Happy Christmas.

greenprincess

I have a degree in Arts from UCC and it has served me well
It really pissed me off when people at college ripped the piss out of arts, it was my first choice and I was thrilled I got it. Just dont let it get to you.

If you have extra ciricular activities on ur cv it'll make you stand out to employers.

I graduated 2009 and I had a really good job for a top company by sept so chin up

the_syco

Larkin91 wrote: »

I only have 13 hours a week with English and Maths Studies.

I'm not going to read the enitre thread, as I don't see the point of most Arts degrees. I say most, as Maths and a few others can be used in many different fields if used correctly, and can be done to awesome effect.

Byron85

the_syco wrote: »

I'm not going to read the enitre thread, as I don't see the point of most Arts degrees. I say most, as Maths and a few others can be used in many different fields if used correctly, and can be done to awesome effect.

:rolleyes:

greenprincess

greenprincess wrote: »

I have a degree in Arts from UCC and it has served me well
It really pissed me off when people at college ripped the piss out of arts, it was my first choice and I was thrilled I got it. Just dont let it get to you.

If you have extra ciricular activities on ur cv it'll make you stand out to employers.

I graduated 2009 and I had a really good job for a top company by sept so chin up

Go you greenprincess!!!:):) Thats what i like to hear. A past Arts student who is a sucess in life!:) I'm a first year student doing Arts in UCC, and even though it wasnt my first choice, i can honestly say im happy im doing it now.


Students studying Arts have to accept that they are going to get some sort of slagging, i join in to it really, because if i dont it will keep going on anyway and will save me the hassle of being and looking like a miserable cow haha.

I totally agree that extra ciricular activites on your cv make anyone stand out though. We could have a person with a degree in law and another person with a degree in arts going for the same job, and the Arts student could have been involved in waaaaaaaay more social activites and be a more likable person so therefore look like a far more employable candidate to an employer.


My friend is doing Arts and she got 545 in the l.c. Just prooves that its not a course that everyone puts down just coz 'they scraped the points' to get in.