Animal stak results

Ray Mond

Heard a few things bout animal stak mostly good.... Thinkin of tryin it out, aanybody take it before and get results? Any information would be grea:)

Esse85

What "results" are you hoping for?

There not steroids.

Ray Mond

Esse85 wrote: »

What "results" are you hoping for?

There not steroids.

well i heard of people noticing strength increaseand putting on some size too... just really wanna hear from some1 that has tryed it and wat they got from it , if anything

john_cappa

Ray Mond wrote: »

well i heard of people noticing strength increaseand putting on some size too... just really wanna hear from some1 that has tryed it and wat they got from it , if anything

May people will have great results from this "stack". When on this stack they train hard, eat well as they want to protect their investment and get the most out of it. Then then falsely attribute the gains to the product.

It wont do jack **** to you IMO.

drdeadlift

john_cappa wrote: »

May people will have great results from this "stack". When on this stack they train hard, eat well as they want to protect their investment and get the most out of it. Then then falsely attribute the gains to the product.

It wont do jack **** to you IMO.

Ah jeasus give the man some hope.

Hanley

drdeadlift wrote: »

Ah jeasus give the man some hope.

I'll give him some hope for 1/2 of whatever he's paying for the Animal Stak.

drdeadlift

Hanley wrote: »

I'll give him some hope for 1/2 of whatever he's paying for the Animal Stak.

So how much does the hope cost? 20-30euro?

amazingemmet

john_cappa wrote: »

May people will have great results from this "stack". When on this stack they train hard, eat well as they want to protect their investment and get the most out of it. Then then falsely attribute the gains to the product.

It wont do jack **** to you IMO.

Here here

I've done a couple of 3 week cycles of animal stak and have found the results to be decent enough. My diet was very good going into these though and i didn't drink while taking them, so I would definitely recommend it as long as your training is intense and consistent and you know what you're doing in the gym.

Esse85

Deleted User wrote: »

I've done a couple of 3 week cycles of animal stak and have found the results to be decent enough. My diet was very good going into these though and i didn't drink while taking them, so I would definitely recommend it as long as your training is intense and consistent and you know what you're doing in the gym.

What are these results you speak of?

Esse85

Esse85 wrote: »

What are these results you speak of?

just some muscle and strength gains, a bit more size that i was looking for and what not, as far as natural test boosters go it's a decent enough product, as i say, if you know what you're doing it and already have diet and training in check its a good boost to training by natural means....

Esse85

Deleted User wrote: »

just some muscle and strength gains, a bit more size that i was looking for and what not, as far as natural test boosters go it's a decent enough product, as i say, if you know what you're doing it and already have diet and training in check its a good boost to training by natural means....

What are the strength gains? Quote me figures.

SpookyBastard

Deleted User wrote: »

My diet was very good going into these though and i didn't drink while taking them... as long as your training is intense and consistent and you know what you're doing in the gym.

That's why you saw gains. I find when my diet is very clean, and I'm working hard and consistently and wearing my grey gap tshirt I get gains. I don't go on to recommend grey gap tshirts.

SpookyBastard

SpookyBastard wrote: »

That's why you saw gains. I find when my diet is very clean, and I'm working hard and consistently and wearing my grey gap tshirt I get gains. I don't go on to recommend grey gap tshirts.

no no, i actually know what i am doing, i know the difference between normal gains vs unnormal gains vs unnatural gains... maybe you enjoy a guy giving you "pleasure" while you're wearing your grey t-shirt... that's why you have "gains" while wearing it??? just a thought????

SpookyBastard

Deleted User wrote: »

no no, i actually know what i am doing, i know the difference between normal gains vs unnormal gains vs unnatural gains... maybe you enjoy a guy giving you "pleasure" while you're wearing your grey t-shirt... that's why you have "gains" while wearing it??? just a thought????

Ah.. good old homophobic internet tough guy

Might want to consider better material for your open mic nights... just a thought...

SpookyBastard

SpookyBastard wrote: »

Ah.. good old homophobic internet tough guy

tough guy??? quite the opposite in fact... just trying to answer the original poster with an answer to the question asked not destroy him with some good old fashioned irish skepticism...

SpookyBastard

SpookyBastard wrote: »

Ah.. good old homophobic internet tough guy

Might want to consider better material for your open mic nights... just a thought...

better material??? for what??? obviously i wouldnt use any of this so called "material" in a open mic set.... don't really understand what that would have to do with trying a natural testosterone booster tbh.....

Jimmy Bottlehead

Deleted User wrote: »

no no, i actually know what i am doing, i know the difference between normal gains vs unnormal gains vs unnatural gains... maybe you enjoy a guy giving you "pleasure" while you're wearing your grey t-shirt... that's why you have "gains" while wearing it??? just a thought????

Up 'til this I thought your points were ok (if a little vague) but that's just pathetic. Grow up. There's enough stupidity and small-mindedness in the world without you adding to it.

SpookyBastard

Deleted User wrote: »

tough guy??? quite the opposite in fact... just trying to answer the original poster with an answer to the question asked not destroy him with some good old fashioned irish skepticism...

better material??? for what??? obviously i wouldnt use any of this so called "material" in a open mic set.... don't really understand what that would have to do with trying a natural testosterone booster tbh.....

You respond to a post suggesting that it was the other things you were doing right that helped you achieve results (a simple correlation vs causation issue) with a childish 'well you're gay' kind of comment... if you were interested in doing stand up work then this is not the type of quip you want to be depending on.

But you are right, this is about helping the original poster with his question so lets get this back on topic. Ray, if you haven't already, read the nutrition sticky as this really is step one to getting good consistent results. Aside from that, if you are looking into supplementation then consider going down the crea mono + whey route. If you're already on top of diet and stuff then just work hard at the weights, stay focused and fight for it. You'll do just fine. You'd be better off spending your money on a bunch of other stuff than on animal stak.

SpookyBastard

SpookyBastard wrote: »

You respond to a post suggesting that it was the other things you were doing right that helped you achieve results (a simple correlation vs causation issue) with a childish 'well you're gay' kind of comment... if you were interested in doing stand up work then this is not the type of quip you want to be depending on.

But you are right, this is about helping the original poster with his question so lets get this back on topic. Ray, if you haven't already, read the nutrition sticky as this really is step one to getting good consistent results. Aside from that, if you are looking into supplementation then consider going down the crea mono + whey route. If you're already on top of diet and stuff then just work hard at the weights, stay focused and fight for it. You'll do just fine. You'd be better off spending your money on a bunch of other stuff than on animal stak.

I think it all depends on what your oppinion of natural testosterone boosters is and how serious you are about training, I found I had some size and strength gains after using it, more than i got in the 3 week period before i started using it anyway...

and i don't think a 3am reply to a smart @rse comment on a message board can be a measure of one's stand up skills...

SpookyBastard

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it all depends on what your oppinion of natural testosterone boosters is and how serious you are about training, I found I had some size and strength gains after using it, more than i got in the 3 week period before i started using it anyway...

and i don't think a 3am reply to a smart @rse comment on a message board can be a measure of one's stand up skills...

Wow. Seriously?

So... 3 weeks training without is a good measure of non-animal stak results? Fair enough buddy. And what does it have to do with how serious we are about training? Sounds like you're suggesting that those of us who don't agree with you about animal stak aren't serious about training... say that to Hanley,Makikomi, Esse, John, Amazing and heck, the huge pile of people who've not agreed with other folks saying the same thing over the years... yeah, your 3 weeks without stak really qualifies you to be the judge on the effectiveness of natural test booster products.

Oh and on the stand up thing, I'm merely commenting on how sad it is to rely on stupid, childish, homophobic jokes because you can't argue your point. Come back to me when you're able to stand by what you're saying with a little more than 3 weeks experience

SpookyBastard

SpookyBastard wrote: »

Wow. Seriously?

So... 3 weeks training without is a good measure of non-animal stak results? Fair enough buddy. And what does it have to do with how serious we are about training? Sounds like you're suggesting that those of us who don't agree with you about animal stak aren't serious about training... say that to Hanley,Makikomi, Esse, John, Amazing and heck, the huge pile of people who've not agreed with other folks saying the same thing over the years... yeah, your 3 weeks without stak really qualifies you to be the judge on the effectiveness of natural test booster products.

Oh and on the stand up thing, I'm merely commenting on how sad it is to rely on stupid, childish, homophobic jokes because you can't argue your point. Come back to me when you're able to stand by what you're saying with a little more than 3 weeks experience

yes... 3 weeks is the amount of time it takes to do a cycle of animal stak.... so yes i am comparing one 3 week period on animal stak to the 3 weeks before that i was not taking it... do you not think i should have?

and i was wasn't questioning peoples training here, what gave you that impression??? obviously if you're training 2/3 times a week half assed and aren't exactly sure what you're doing and your diet isn't good then you can really expect to see improvements no matter what you take.

Mellor

On the 3 weeks before sis you also not drink, have a near perfect diet, and train jsut as hard.
See why you had gains now

Mellor

Mellor wrote: »

On the 3 weeks before sis you also not drink, have a near perfect diet, and train jsut as hard.
See why you had gains now

drank once the 3 weeks before i started and yes i usually eat very clean and trained the same amount yes....

Mellor

And what sort of gains did you have, how big an increse in mass, how much bigger were lifts.

has anybody here actually taken animal stak??

Mellor

Mellor wrote: »

And what sort of gains did you have, how big an increse in mass, how much bigger were lifts.

as i say bigger than the last 3 weeks before i started it, did you find you had much gains when you used animal stak??

King of Kings

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Up 'til this I thought your points were ok (if a little vague) but that's just pathetic. Grow up. There's enough stupidity and small-mindedness in the world without you adding to it.

think you should grow up and stop being so sensitive . He responded to an original post with an opinion which was belittled by another poster (spooky bastard) to which he responded in kind.
whats your issue?

one homophobic post in jest doesn't make him a stupid or small minded.

But I've never taken animal stak

john_cappa

LMAO at people honestly believing that they made measurable tangible gains over a three week period of Animal Stak. If the gains were that good I assume you are still using it and continue to use it?

What gains did you get?

DARCHA22

Deleted User wrote: »

as i say bigger than the last 3 weeks before i started it, did you find you had much gains when you used animal stak??

give us some figures.....
Prior 3 weeks results
Stak results
Coparison between the 2

Come on you have to have this otherwise your just taking crap IMO

how did you measure your results, what did you use to establish better gians

Let me think....... a mirror, "oh i look so buff today, jesus that der stak is soooooo good"

DARCHA22

OP you can get some good juice at the moment that gives you steroid like gains, its awsome, even better than animal stack

Its called Apple juice, be carful though you might want to look into PCT for after it. I found Bananas to be good, with grapes before bedtime.

amazingemmet

Playing Devils advocate looking up the ingredients of Animal Stak:

4-Androstenedione, 19-Nor-5-Androstenedione, 5-Androstenediol, DHEA, L-Arginine Pyroglutamate, L-Ornithine Alpha-Ketoglutarate, Taurine, Colostrum, Tribulus, Acetyl-L-Carnitine, L-Carnitine, Ma Huang Extract, Kola Extract, Saw Palmetto, Beta Sitosterol, Pygeum Africanum, Kudzu, Chrysin, Lecithin, Milk Thistle, Vitamin C, Zinc, Vitamin B6, Chromium Picolinate

It does contain steroids/ pro hormones, in what amounts who knows and I'm too lazy to look up if they're orally available. There's nothing in there that will hinder gains and most of the things will aid to some degree.

Personally I'd spend my money on more cow.

DARCHA22

DARCHA22 wrote: »

give us some figures.....
Prior 3 weeks results
Stak results
Coparison between the 2

Come on you have to have this otherwise your just taking crap IMO

how did you measure your results, what did you use to establish better gians

Let me think....... a mirror, "oh i look so buff today, jesus that der stak is soooooo good"

lol yep the mirror ya know me well no i did keep figures but i moved out of the country last year and am only back 6 weeks (the truth not a convenient alibi!) i did keep measurements and had a log book containing lifting figures but to be honest i've no idea where it is if it is even still here at home.

As i say, obviously people here have little faith in natural test boosters, i must just have lower test levels i dunno because i do find them quite useful,

I was merely giving the original poster my oppinion, I find it quite unfair that people are just rediculing my oppinion when not one person has said they used it and found it to be useless.

and i don't use it anymore no, partly because it's not available to buy in Ireland because it has tribulus in it and partly because my goals are now very much cutting orientated.

DARCHA22

amazingemmet wrote: »

Playing Devils advocate looking up the ingredients of Animal Stak:

4-Androstenedione, 19-Nor-5-Androstenedione, 5-Androstenediol, DHEA, L-Arginine Pyroglutamate, L-Ornithine Alpha-Ketoglutarate, Taurine, Colostrum, Tribulus, Acetyl-L-Carnitine, L-Carnitine, Ma Huang Extract, Kola Extract, Saw Palmetto, Beta Sitosterol, Pygeum Africanum, Kudzu, Chrysin, Lecithin, Milk Thistle, Vitamin C, Zinc, Vitamin B6, Chromium Picolinate

.

You sure you have the right thing, or is that the old ingredient list

Animal Stak

Nutrition Facts

Serving Size 1 pack
Servings Per Container 21 Amount Per Serving% Daily ValueVitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid) 100 mg 166% Saw Palmetto Extract 200 mg Calcium D-Glucarate 100 mg Chromium (as Picolinate) 100 mcg 83% Milk Thistle Extract 200 mg Magnesium (as Oxide) 450 mg 113% Zinc (as Oxide) 30 mg 200% Pygeum Africanum 50 mg 11 mg 525% B-Sitosterol 250 mg Lysophosphatidylcholine 50 mg Mucuna Prurlens (Standardized 15% L-Dopa) 250 mg Longjack Extract Complex 250 mg Avena Sativa Extract 250 mg Tribulus Extract Complex 500 mg 50 mg Diindolymethane (DIM) 100 mg Vasodilator Complex 750 mg Cortisol Inhibitor Complex 300 mg *percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.Ingredients: Other Ingredients: Gelatin, Dicalcium Phosphate, Whey, Lecithin, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Stearic Acid, Magnesium Stearate, Titanium Dioxide, FD&C Red No. 40, FD&C Blue No. 1. Natural Test Complex: Longjack Extract Complex (Longjack Extract Complex is a Proprietary Blend of Euroycoma Longifolia, Including Patented LJ100 Standardized for 28% Bioactive Glycopeptide Compounds and 40% Glycosaponins), Avena Sativa Extract (Standardized for Avenacosides A & , Tribulus Extract Complex (Standardized for Protodioscin & Steroidal Saponins). Growth Hormone Secretagogues: Mucuna Pruiens Extract (Standardized for 15% L-Dopa), Alpha Glycerylphosphorylcholine. Vasodilator Complex: Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate (AKG), Arginine Ketoisocaproate (KIC). Aromatase Inhibitors: Calcium D-Glucarate, Diindolylmethane (DIM). DHT Blockers: B-Sitosterol, Saw Palmetto Extract, Pygeum Africanum. Cortisol Inhibitor Complex: Acetyl L-Carnitine, Phosphatidylserine. Liver Detoxifiers: Lysophosphatidylcholine, Milk Thistle Extract.
*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.




Animal Stak II

Natural Test Complex
• Longjack Extract Complex (standardized for 28% bioactive glycopeptide compounds/glycosaponins)
• Avena Sativa Extract (standardized for avenacosides A &
• Tribulus Extract Complex (standardized for protodioscin/steroidal saponins)

Growth Hormone Secretagogues
• Mucuna Pruriens Extract
• Alpha Glycerylphosphorylcholine (Alpha GPC)

Aromatase Inhibitors
• Calcium D-Glucarate
• Diindolylmethane (DIM)

DHT Blockers
• Beta-Sitosterol
• Saw Palmetto Extract
• Pygeum Africanum

Liver Detoxifiers
• Lysophosphatidylcholine
• Milk Thistle Extract

Vasodilator Complex
• Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate (AKG)
• Arginine Ketoisocaproate (KIC)

Cortisol Inhibitors
• Acetyl L-Carnitine
• Phosphatidylserine

Vitamin/Mineral Support
• Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid)
• Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine HCl)
• Magnesium (as oxide)
• Zinc (as oxide)
• Chromium (as picolinate)

DARCHA22

Deleted User wrote: »

and i don't use it anymore no, partly because it's not available to buy in Ireland because it has tribulus in it and partly because my goals are now very much cutting orientated.

You can buy it online in the uk.

DARCHA22

DARCHA22 wrote: »

You can buy it online in the uk.

exactly... sooo you can't buy it in ireland.....

Mellor

Saying you had bigger gains, but you can't remember what there were is a bit lol.

If you added 5kg to a lift in the previous 3 weeks, and then 10kg in the stak 3 weeks its insignificant. I use no supps, and you'd find periods of 3 weeks were by lifts increased by anything from 0 to 10+kg, it happens, ditto for weight loss or gain.

Now, if you added a significant amount, you surely remember. But obviously you didn't.

Mellor

Mellor wrote: »

I use no supps, and you'd find periods of 3 weeks were by lifts increased by anything from 0 to 10+kg, it happens, ditto for weight loss or gain.

Now, if you added a significant amount, you surely remember. But obviously you didn't.

You don't use whey protein???

please give specific examples of times your lift went up by 10kg+ and for what exercises....

and of course i dont remember that was over a year ago, how much did you weigh/lift on september 15th last year? and what was your progress 3 weeks later??? surely you must remember....

DARCHA22

Deleted User wrote: »

exactly... sooo you can't buy it in ireland.....

But if it was THAT good, you would still get it from the UK online

DARCHA22

Deleted User wrote: »

You don't use whey protein???

please give specific examples of times your lift went up by 10kg+ and for what exercises....

and of course i dont remember that was over a year ago, how much did you weigh/lift on september 15th last year? and what was your progress 3 weeks later??? surely you must remember....

Haha, people ask you to back up what your saying and you cant so you act like a child.

DARCHA22

DARCHA22 wrote: »

Haha, people ask you to back up what your saying and you cant so you act like a child.

How??? I'm only asking him to back up what he's saying.....

DARCHA22

DARCHA22 wrote: »

But if it was THAT good, you would still get it from the UK online

no credit card.. and as i say my goals are different now...

DARCHA22

Deleted User wrote: »

You don't use whey protein???

please give specific examples of times your lift went up by 10kg+ and for what exercises....

and of course i dont remember that was over a year ago, how much did you weigh/lift on september 15th last year? and what was your progress 3 weeks later??? surely you must remember....

Mellor did not use a 3 week analogy, you did.
Mellor also gave a statement that basically said gains will happen anyway and that attributing it to a particular product is a bit silly.

You then went ahead and asked him to prove it, well its kind of a fact so no need to prove it.

Whereas your "bigger" in the 3 weeks you used Animal Stak, needs to be backed up with figures or some kinda detail.

Your comment is quiet smart, a.k.a CHILDISH

FYI, you do not need any supplements if your diet is correct, that includes whey protein. Whey protein is only a convienece or a gap filler for a diet. Crap diet + whey = crap results

Good Diet + training = results
supps are just an addition that may help toward a particular goal

DARCHA22

DARCHA22 wrote: »

Mellor did not use a 3 week analogy, you did.
Mellor also gave a statement that basically said gains will happen anyway and that attributing it to a particular product is a bit silly.

You then went ahead and asked him to prove it, well its kind of a fact so no need to prove it.

Whereas your "bigger" in the 3 weeks you used Animal Stak, needs to be backed up with figures or some kinda detail.

Your comment is quiet smart, a.k.a CHILDISH

FYI, you do not need any supplements if your diet is correct, that includes whey protein. Whey protein is only a convienece or a gap filler for a diet. Crap diet + whey = crap results

Good Diet + training = results
supps are just an addition that may help toward a particular goal

Mellor stated i should know my figures even though i lost my log book, so i asked him to prove it's so easy to do so a year after is all....

Is there not alot more benefits to supplementing with whey protein immediately post workout? (this is a genuine question as i have read many an article online and books advising of this)

of course good diet + training = decent result which is why i stated mine was good not only while on animal stak but before and also also.

I will refrain from the smart comments in future although i was only responding to equally smart comments made toward me.

DARCHA22

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there not alot more benefits to supplementing with whey protein immediately post workout? (this is a genuine question as i have read many an article online and books advising of this)

QUOTE]

Well theres a yes and a no to that. Mostly depends on the person and other factors.

One side says yes.
Other says no.
Other side says food after a workout works the same as whey or better.

Both have had studies which show each arguement. please dont ask for the studies, i will be on Google all day lookign for them.

My opinion is Yes, but only if diet is good, and the results will be marginal in relation to overall calorie intake, i woudl think most of the gains would be from proper training, proper diet and plenty of sleep.

DARCHA22

Deleted User wrote: »

I will refrain from the smart comments in future although i was only responding to equally smart comments made toward me.

Dont refrain on my account, just if someone is going to be a little childish with a comment "15th sept" or watever it was, that they shoud back up what they said so thet the comment is more of a 2 fingers to the responder rather than a throw your toys out of the pram moment, if you get what im sayin. Smart comments can be quiet funny if used correctly

Well theres a yes and a no to that. Mostly depends on the person and other factors.

One side says yes.
Other says no.
Other side says food after a workout works the same as whey or better.

Both have had studies which show each arguement. please dont ask for the studies, i will be on Google all day lookign for them.

My opinion is Yes, but only if diet is good, and the results will be marginal in relation to overall calorie intake, i woudl think most of the gains would be from proper training, proper diet and plenty of sleep.

thanks for a proper answer, i guess for me it just seems bare minimum to at least have whey straight after a workout as supplementation, my thinking being it's whey so fast acting and liquid so is digested a lot faster than solid food so will be transported to muscles a lot quicker.

DARCHA22

DARCHA22 wrote: »

Dont refrain on my account, just if someone is going to be a little childish with a comment "15th sept" or watever it was, that they shoud back up what they said so thet the comment is more of a 2 fingers to the responder rather than a throw your toys out of the pram moment, if you get what im sayin. Smart comments can be quiet funny if used correctly

lol a point well made, although i'm not sure my points would not be accepted by some even if i had figures to back up my oppinion, they could attrribute weight loss/gain to water weight or dispute how much gained was muscle without body fat %s, or lifting heavier to placebo effect of being on a new supplement, the only way to prove it worked would be to get testosterone measurements i'm sure...

I'm a bit suprised to have my oppinion rediculed so much though when noone has said they have taken this... arguing with someone over a supplement you havent taken is quite like arguing with someone over a film you havent seen.... BTW the last film i watched was "Moon" with Sam Rockwell so if anyone hasn't seen it pm me and let me know what you thought of it :P

DARCHA22

Deleted User wrote: »

lthe only way to prove it worked would be to get testosterone measurements i'm sure...

I'm a bit suprised to have my oppinion rediculed so much though when noone has said they have taken this... arguing with someone over a supplement you havent taken is quite like arguing with someone over a film you havent seen.... BTW the last film i watched was "Moon" with Sam Rockwell so if anyone hasn't seen it pm me and let me know what you thought of it :P

Yeh thats th eonly way really, my guess if tested it would show minimal results in most people, but for some it may show better results than others. the only thing with natty test boosters is they can only bring your body up to its maximum natural level, unlike steroids, which go beyond that level.

The majority of people who have taken trib and other natty test boosters would render them uselss, but good for libido(sure a nice woman shud do the job :P ) thats prob why people dismiss them so easily as most of them dont work.

LOL, never saw that film.

DARCHA22

DARCHA22 wrote: »

Yeh thats th eonly way really, my guess if tested it would show minimal results in most people, but for some it may show better results than others. the only thing with natty test boosters is they can only bring your body up to its maximum natural level, unlike steroids, which go beyond that level.

The majority of people who have taken trib and other natty test boosters would render them uselss, but good for libido(sure a nice woman shud do the job :P ) thats prob why people dismiss them so easily as most of them dont work.

LOL, never saw that film.

Of course, i'm sure people with decent genetics have little need for 90% of supplements, some in my oppinion are essential for anyone serious about weight training, and as I say i do think my test levels are lower than most naturally and my genetics are very much against me so obviously something like this would be of interest to me.
Obviously it is possible for someone to take no supplements whatsoever and obtain their goals eventually but really i think everybody wants to tilt the odds in their favour as much as they can and get supplements that will promote the right conditions for their body to be burn fat/ build muscle depending on your goals, and as i say i found this product good for me as far as natural test boosters are concerned, as i say the key word here is natural, it's in no way comparable to hgh, pro hormone or steroids.

and as for people saying significant gains can't be obtained in 3 weeks, i would suggest to you to search online for people logging their progress while on the prohormone m-drol, obviously i'm not recommending using it but from an observational perspective it's quite rediculous the gains made in the time frame.

Esse85

Deleted User wrote: »

lol yep the mirror ya know me well no i did keep figures but i moved out of the country last year and am only back 6 weeks (the truth not a convenient alibi!) i did keep measurements and had a log book containing lifting figures but to be honest i've no idea where it is if it is even still here at home.

As i say, obviously people here have little faith in natural test boosters, i must just have lower test levels i dunno because i do find them quite useful,

I was merely giving the original poster my oppinion, I find it quite unfair that people are just rediculing my oppinion when not one person has said they used it and found it to be useless.

and i don't use it anymore no, partly because it's not available to buy in Ireland because it has tribulus in it and partly because my goals are now very much cutting orientated.

Im using tribulus ATM haha i never knew it was banned here till i read your post.