Social Welfare Measures Could Be Rejected

JONJO THE MISER

Just heard there that Michael ring is urging TD'S to vote against the welfare measures announced in the budget:).
I think its a disgrace that they are attacking the blind person pension the carers allowance and disability allowance:mad:
I think there is a growing head of steam going behind rejecting the social welfare measures.

melekalikimaka

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Just heard there that Michael ring is urging TD'S to vote against the welfare measures announced in the budget:).
I think its a disgrace that they are attacking the blind person pension the carers allowance and disability allowance:mad:
I think there is a growing head of steam going behind rejecting the social welfare measures.

and this is the attitude that will leave us in this mess longer, complaining. No one is happy with getting cuts but its a fact they are required. this is only the start of them, next year there will be more, and the year after.

Professional Griefer

melekalikimaka wrote: »

and this is the attitude that will leave us in this mess longer, complaining. No one is happy with getting cuts but its a fact they are required. this is only the start of them, next year there will be more, and the year after.

The more people that realise this the better.

starbelgrade

I wonder how Michael Ring cleans his ring?

I bet he uses 4 ply tissue, the rich bastard.

phasers

I thought the social welfare measures didn't go far enough.

starbelgrade wrote: »

I wonder how Michael Ring cleans his ring?

I bet he uses 4 ply tissue, the rich bastard.

I heard he doesn't even bother with paper and just washes it

melekalikimaka

phasers wrote: »

I thought the social welfare measures didn't go far enough.

the issue is with the 'old' being hit

phasers

melekalikimaka wrote: »

the issue is with the 'old' being hit

Oh don't get me started on the feckin pensioners

LuckyLloyd

I'd be in favour of rejecting the cuts on the basis that they should be more severe - i.e. they should also cut the State Pension.

I am annoyed at how lightly the issue of PS pay / staff is being dealt with, but in a vacuum the SW cuts make sense and should be carried.

steddyeddy

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

The more people that realise this the better.

I agree with social welfare deductions for single people but cutting the blind pension is crazy they like the disabled are a minority

Einhard

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Just heard there that Michael ring is urging TD'S to vote against the welfare measures announced in the budget:).
I think its a disgrace that they are attacking the blind person pension the carers allowance and disability allowance:mad:
I think there is a growing head of steam going behind rejecting the social welfare measures.

Wow, what a scoop. FG TD argues against government decision! What next, SF argues for a united Ireland?!

phasers wrote: »

I thought the social welfare measures didn't go far enough.


I heard he doesn't even bother with paper and just washes it

He pays people on the dole to to it.

chucken1

starbelgrade wrote: »

I wonder how Michael Ring cleans his ring?

I bet he uses 4 ply tissue, the rich bastard.

Did you learn anything today???

BIDET...:D

Cavehill Red

We can keep laying boots into each other and ignoring the elephant in the living room. That's what they want us to do. Old v young, employed v unemployed, public sector v private. On and on it goes.
Meanwhile, as we're arguing over scraps off our own table, the IMF and the EU are robbing our wealth now and far into the future to bail out the banks.
The WHOLE budget needs to be rejected, and the bank guarantee reneged on.
Then we can start again without this €100 billion rock of debt which we never accrued hanging around our neck.

melekalikimaka

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'd be in favour of rejecting the cuts on the basis that they should be more severe - i.e. they should also cut the State Pension.

I am annoyed at how lightly the issue of PS pay / staff is being dealt with, but in a vacuum the SW cuts make sense and should be carried.

next year they will get smashed again, in fairness they are still very high, but they have received reductions already and i imagine they are giving them some breathing space before the next hit

sandmanporto

melekalikimaka wrote: »

and this is the attitude that will leave us in this mess longer, complaining. No one is happy with getting cuts but its a fact they are required. this is only the start of them, next year there will be more, and the year after.

who says this attitude will leave us in the mess longer! if they left carers and blind allowance alone and took further pay cuts from the higher earners( 100+ grand a year) and a further pay cut to ministers it even the balance!
As far as Im concerned more cuts to the high earners wont put them on the breadline while the low earners like carers are in **** creek enuf as it is!!
Go do a few case studies!

filthymcnasty

Its not going to be rejected he voted for the budget.. it will pass every year as always despite whining on mayo FM or wherever, these cnuts always go with the party line ff of fg

starbelgrade

chucken1 wrote: »

Did you learn anything today???

BIDET...:D

"Bidet blind or not, I'm cutting their dole"

Brian Lenihan, Budget Speech, 7th Dec 2010

Einhard

chucken1 wrote: »

Did you learn anything today???

BIDET...:D

What's Miley's missus have to do with it?

sandmanporto

phasers wrote: »

I thought the social welfare measures didn't go far enough.

Can you explain why you expected it go further? Please add references to having children, the cost of food etc, rent, ESB, telephone etc. not to mention the fact christmas is coming up..
Yeah, Id like an essay.

melekalikimaka

sandmanporto wrote: »

Can you explain why you expected it go further? Please add references to having children, the cost of food etc, rent, ESB, telephone etc. not to mention the fact christmas is coming up..
Yeah, Id like an essay.

social welfare is too high for our economy to support
public service wages are too high for our economy to support

your points to children and esb are sadly second, the country cannot afford to fund people to the level they have been, cost of living will drop and will hopefully make things manageable... this christmas is hard for everyone

LuckyLloyd

melekalikimaka wrote: »

next year they will get smashed again, in fairness they are still very high, but they have received reductions already and i imagine they are giving them some breathing space before the next hit

That's not really the right way of handling the issue though. Rather than universal / union negotiated measures, there should be an outside assessment of what every department / employee brings to the table and job / pay cuts on an individual level just like in the private sector.

Doing a good job? Your department using its budget efficiently? Then you shouldn't be also suffering at the hands of a global cut introduced because the majority of employees and departments are bloated wastes of space. The croke park agreement should be torn up and the unions bypassed entirely. The failure to do that is unacceptable.

But all of that doesn't mean that the SW cuts are too harsh or inappropriate. It is of course disgraceful that the societal section that is bereft of political organisation gets appropriately assessed for budget cuts while the biggest area of public over expenditure gets treated with kid gloves because they are organised, do vote and will clog up your city centre if you push them, etc.

But no political party or protest vote is coming at the problem like that. You have parties saying 'fight every cut', or thousands of people turning up at protests that have ICTU members / Civil Servants at the front. Sigh. :rolleyes:

JONJO THE MISER

Whatever about cutting the dole, i think its just sick to cut a poor blind person's payment or a carer for that matter.

LuckyLloyd

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Whatever about cutting the dole, i think its just sick to cut a poor blind person's payment or a carer for that matter.

What level were those payments set at in 2006? How will they compare to that rate after these budget cuts are implemented?

steddyeddy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What level were those payments set at in 2006? How will they compare to that rate after these budget cuts are implemented?

why does it matter its safe to say they arent a massive drain on the economy. The bankers however that contrubuted to the destruction of the economy are still present in to a large degree.

melekalikimaka

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The croke park agreement should be torn up and the unions bypassed entirely. The failure to do that is unacceptable.

:

I agree, there is alot more to that agreement I think, hopefully post elections we'll see what its all about, theres even a clause in it to void it in this situation.

on the other hand, its a four year plan, I honestly cant see anyone getting away without getting hit, of course theres the people at the top, who will always find a loophole, but moaning bout this is fruitless, we arent unique in this issue, all countries suffer from it.

Einhard

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Whatever about cutting the dole, i think its just sick to cut a poor blind person's payment or a carer for that matter.

Do blind people need more $$$ to get by than those that can see? If not, then why should their payments be exempt?

tudlytops

I just think that it is very unfair on the disable and those caring for them.

Why should you be condemned to a life of poverty just because you are ill, disabled or looking after someone who is???

Their benefit went down, they are losing the heating (not sure of the name) allowance, in favour of a €40 one of payment (how many bags of coal is that), they will surely keep worm all winter with that.

What this says is that if you are ill or disabled, you are really good for nothing and this so called caring society doesn't give a damn, because you can not pay taxes.

melekalikimaka

steddyeddy wrote: »

why does it matter its safe to say they arent a massive drain on the economy.

it matters alot, if they were on the same money then as they will be it shows that the cuts will have a small effect on them, and shows they will not suffer as a result, merely 'cut the cloth' from the tapestry the celtic tiger gave them, not just them, all of us

chucken1

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Whatever about cutting the dole, i think its just sick to cut a poor blind person's payment or a carer for that matter.

I totally agree with you and my hubby, my son and I are "living' (it up according to some).on 290e a week.

Ive never seen us as "vulnerable'..we can move around,we get by..but those cuts are taking the proverbial..


This has to stop!,they've no grip on reality.

melekalikimaka

tudlytops wrote: »

I just think that it is very unfair on the disable and those caring for them.

Why should you be condemned to a life of poverty just because you are ill, disabled or looking after someone who is???

Their benefit went down, they are losing the heating (not sure of the name) allowance, in favour of a €40 one of payment (how many bags of coal is that), they will surely keep worm all winter with that.

What this says is that if you are ill or disabled, you are really good for nothing and this so called caring society doesn't give a damn, because you can not pay taxes.

do you believe that they are all condemned to a life of poverty as a result of this budget?

melekalikimaka

chucken1 wrote: »

This has to stop!,they've no grip on reality.

the reality of the situation is, it has to be done

Tar.Aldarion

Einhard wrote: »

Do blind people need more $$$ to get by than those that can see? If not, then why should their payments be exempt?

No it's cheaper, no lights etc

Einhard

tudlytops wrote: »

I just think that it is very unfair on the disable and those caring for them.

Why should you be condemned to a life of poverty just because you are ill, disabled or looking after someone who is???

Their benefit went down, they are losing the heating (not sure of the name) allowance, in favour of a €40 one of payment (how many bags of coal is that), they will surely keep worm all winter with that.

What this says is that if you are ill or disabled, you are really good for nothing and this so called caring society doesn't give a damn, because you can not pay taxes.

Irish welfare payments, across the board, are amongst the most generous in Europe, and cutting them in a time of fiscal crisis is not a sign of an uncaring society. People can no doubt make similarly emotive arguments about why every cut announced yesterday should be rescinded, but the fact is we cannot afford to maintain spending at current levels. If anything, it's those on the minimum wage, who will lose over €2100 pa in wages alone who have most to gripe about.

turbobaby

chucken1 wrote: »

I totally agree with you and my hubby, my son and I are "living' (it up according to some).on 290e a week.

Ive never seen us as "vulnerable'..we can move around,we get by..but those cuts are taking the proverbial..


This has to stop!,they've no grip on reality.

Get a job then you family of useless saps... mod note, user was banned for this comment

Can you honestly say there's nothing out there?

sandmanporto

melekalikimaka wrote: »

social welfare is too high for our economy to support
public service wages are too high for our economy to support

your points to children and esb are sadly second, the country cannot afford to fund people to the level they have been, cost of living will drop and will hopefully make things manageable... this christmas is hard for everyone

In that case, major scraps should be in place and because the economy is more important people should have to sleep rough. we all need to take cuts!
Is that the solution? I know that if that happened there would be so much violence on the streets, we wouldnt be alive!
So before you defend the economy(which is a man made theory funded by mans actions), you should consider the individual blocks of society( who exist and need to live) first!
Without harmony, there is no ECONOMY or COUNTRY!


It's a hard christmas for everyone, but some people wont get presents this christmas, and i can guarantee you that! i see people spending christmas in hotels, while some people wont have heating or turkey or even a cake for christmas! thats reality! more cuts necessary to those? or more to the ones in hotels? you decide what you believe!!!

High energy

melekalikimaka wrote: »

your points to children and esb are sadly second, the country cannot afford to fund people to the level they have been

They could easily justify cutting social welfare if the energy regulator lowered the price of electricity.. something everyone in the country pays (social welfare/public sector/private sector/etc), but then we wouldn't have ceos getting their much needed €750,000/year and 8000 staff with an average salary of €70,000.

chucken1

turbobaby wrote: »

Get a job then you family of useless saps...

Can you honestly say there's nothing out there?

Thats lovely! You should be very proud of that post.
Do you know our circumstances?

sandmanporto

Cheaper drugs now!! ---Frank Gallagher, Shameless hahah

tudlytops

melekalikimaka wrote: »

do you believe that they are all condemned to a life of poverty as a result of this budget?

As a result of many budgets....

Why do this people have to live, many their whole life's on so very little???

its not as if anyone is even trying to help them to work, if you go to the so called services for the disabled, how many disabled people do you see working in there?

If even the government won't employ them, how can we expect the privet sector to do so.

And if they can't work, why should they live on as little as €188 a week, and have to be on as little as that since the day they got sick or disabled?

If you are unemployed you will have the chance to go to work eventually, if you are disabled, you are just that, disabled and poor.

melekalikimaka

sandmanporto wrote: »

In that case, major scraps should be in place and because the economy is more important people should have to sleep rough. we all need to take cuts!
Is that the solution? I know that if that happened there would be so much violence on the streets, we wouldnt be alive!
So before you defend the economy(which is a man made theory funded by mans actions), you should consider the individual blocks of society( who exist and need to live) first!
Without harmony, there is no ECONOMY or COUNTRY!


It's a hard christmas for everyone, but some people wont get presents this christmas, and i can guarantee you that! i see people spending christmas in hotels, while some people wont have heating or turkey or even a cake for christmas! thats reality! more cuts necessary to those? or more to the ones in hotels? you decide what you believe!!!

i believe if fair cuts, i feel everyone should pay take the same cut, the rich and the poor. it may not have worked out this way in the budget, but i sure as hell know 6 billion has now been saved, something we promised we would do to secure our loan from europe, and i sure as hell know people who dodged it this year will get hit next year, or the year after.

High energy

I think the dole should actually be increased every year you are on it, like €188 the first year, then €208 the second year, then €218 the third year up to a maximum of €267.90

Make it more of a lucrative career option than it currently is ya know

chucken1

turbobaby wrote: »

Get a job then you family of useless saps...

Can you honestly say there's nothing out there?

And if you were smart enough to read the whole thread,you'll see I was'nt saying anything about our income...I was commenting on the OP.
Which is..KNOWING THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE WORSE OFF!

turbobaby

chucken1 wrote: »

Thats lovely! You should be very proud of that post.
Do you know our circumstances?

Well you are on the internet at half one on a Thursday night.

Cancel your internet connection, sell your computer, for a start.

People need to dig in.

melekalikimaka

tudlytops wrote: »

As a result of many budgets....

Why do this people have to live, many their whole life's on so very little???

its not as if anyone is even trying to help them to work, if you go to the so called services for the disabled, how many disabled people do you see working in there?

If even the government won't employ them, how can we expect the privet sector to do so.

And if they can't work, why should they live on as little as €188 a week, and have to be on as little as that since the day they got sick or disabled?

If you are unemployed you will have the chance to go to work eventually, if you are disabled, you are just that, disabled and poor.

they get more than 188 via benefits of other kinds. many on minimum wage after rent or mortgage would be on similar levels, 188 might not seem alot now, but i blame that partly on the celtic tiger. look at other countries welfare. i agree if you are disabled you should not have to suffer the indignity of poverty, no one should have that forced upon them, but i dont think it would be feasible to place them above others in our economic climate, we cant give what we dont have.

tudlytops

High energy wrote: »

I think the dole should actually be increased every year you are on it, like €188 the first year, then €208 the second year, then €218 the third year up to a maximum of €267.90

Make it more of a lucrative career option than it currently is ya know

But its not about the dole, its about those that can't work, sick, disabled or looking after them.

th3 s1aught3r

Its pretty surreal listening to FF telling us our benefits are among the highest in Europe and need trimming.... didnt they give us most of them ?

I feel most sorry for those with mortgages. Wont be long until the banks (ones getting bailed out) are raising interest rates to get back to profitability. Along with all these cuts and taxes, the interest rate increases will send a lot of people over the financial cliff

God help you all

High energy

melekalikimaka wrote: »

they get more than 188 via benefits of other kinds. many on minimum wage after rent or mortgage would be on similar levels, 188 might not seem alot now, but i blame that partly on the celtic tiger. look at other countries welfare. i agree if you are disabled you should not have to suffer the indignity of poverty, no one should have that forced upon them, but i dont think it would be feasible to place them above others in our economic climate, we cant give what we dont have.

I disagree, they're being robbed blind

turbobaby

Ah sure they're blind, let's give them more money on top of the extras they've got over the last few years...

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

filthymcnasty wrote: »

Its not going to be rejected he voted for the budget.. it will pass every year as always despite whining on mayo FM or wherever, these cnuts always go with the party line ff of fg

Hes found of whining on Mid West Radio alright. Hes always 'Calling upon the Minister'. I dont understand why he doesnt call upon the minister to do something when hes sitting opposite him in the Dail.

I think someone got a sly dig in at Ring there after Lenihan read out the budget. Im almost certain I heard some Fiann Failer reply to Rings shouting by saying 'Why dont you go to the local papers about it?'

tudlytops

melekalikimaka wrote: »

they get more than 188 via benefits of other kinds. many on minimum wage after rent or mortgage would be on similar levels, 188 might not seem alot now, but i blame that partly on the celtic tiger. look at other countries welfare. i agree if you are disabled you should not have to suffer the indignity of poverty, no one should have that forced upon them, but i dont think it would be feasible to place them above others in our economic climate, we cant give what we dont have.

I agree we can't give what we don't have, but surely they could stop being hit in every budget and more services should be provided to help them, those who can, to get a job, even if it were for just a few hours a week.

There was no help before this crisis and now they say there isn't because of the crisis.

There are plenty out there that are unemployed through choice and the baby making machine, hit them and not the disabled and ill.

And before someone gets going on my comment of the baby making machine, its for the unemployed that have one baby and another and another while unemployed, them i count as the ones who are unemployed by choice.

melekalikimaka

High energy wrote: »

I disagree, they're being robbed blind

they are getting money for nothing... they are unable to work, the government is supporting them as it is ethically the right thing to do, the government id broke, so it is cutting the amount they give them so it can afford to payback a debt which regardless of how incurred, needs to be paid and you believe they are being robbed? serious entitlement issues here

tudlytops

turbobaby wrote: »

Ah sure they're blind, let's give them more money on top of the extras they've got over the last few years...

its not just the blind and its not about giving them more when there isn't any to give, it about living them alone.

After all the pensioners did not suffer any cuts and many of the pensioners today were the unemployed of yesterday.

There are certain people in society that should be helped not push futher down into a hole.