Myers is trolling the teachers again

thebigbiffo

True to form - Myers is having a go at those poor teachers again in todays Indo.

By Kevin Myers

Tuesday December 07 2010

Cut to the chase; why were all our schools shut down for the first 10 days of real winter? Was there a hidden paragraph in the Croke Park deal which no one outside the teaching profession noticed, namely:
"When teachers do not feel conditions are quite right for teaching, our schools shall be shut until the unions feel they should be open. Teachers shall still be paid for their time off, but shall not be expected to make good the lost teaching time during their annual holidays."
I already know the teachers' reaction to this column: shrill and angry. When they had their conferences last Easter, my name was invoked (as was John Walshe's) as a hate-figure. That teachers might still be living in a wholly unreal world -- as indeed is the entire public sector under the shelter of that infamous and unprincipled capitulation to union-power -- was not even considered back then. No, indeed: those who say it is raining, with hurricanes to come, are apparently the wicked ones. Blame them, not the weather.
Last week, I took some of my six weeks' annual leave. In the gathering snow in local farmers' suppliers, customers were queuing up to buy salt to keep their farms working. Employees there who lived in the heart of the Wicklow Hills got up before 6am to make sure they got to work on time. Every shop in Blessington was open by first light. Kenny's Bakery -- which in a brilliant gesture of defiance began fresh-baking superb French sticks and pastries, seven days a week, just as the recession really took hold -- was open as always at 8am. In Ballymore Eustace, all the businesses have remained steadfastly trading, though snowfall there is now well over two feet.
On Wednesday, we went to Dublin Airport. Everyone was working flat out to ensure the airport and the airlines functioned. We returned on Friday. There was an air of utter determination to ensure that it was Business As Usual. Yet throughout Ireland over the past 10 days, all our schools have remained closed. There is and can be no justification for this. If every single business around us can open while the mornings are still dark, and the snow lies thick on the fields, why are the schools not open?
One friend (not local) rang the local school manager, a Catholic priest (another column for another day) to know why the school was closed. Two teachers had reported they couldn't make it to school, and so he had closed the entire school. All right: did Aer Lingus choose not to fly anywhere because a couple of pilots were marooned behind a snowdrift? Did this newspaper not appear because a couple of printers had trouble getting to Citywest? You know the answer to such inane questions.
Teachers not being able to get to work is one excuse for our closed schools. Excuse number two is health and safety: snow on the playground, et cetera. Good. But is there not snow on the hills where the schoolchildren have spent the last week or more sledging? And if lawyers' greed has made litigation arising from schoolyard snow and ice too likely, why were teachers and parents not mobilised to clear the snow? If farmers were able to buy large amounts of salt to clear their farms of snow, why were school management boards not able to do likewise in our schools?
Last week alone, in only the third month of this semester, Irish schoolchildren lost 4pc of their total education for the year. To judge from last winter, we might have another four months of bad weather ahead of us. Are our schools to close every time we get a snowfall? And if they do, how will our teachers spend their time? Marooned at home? Or perhaps shopping, or getting their hair done (according to hairdressers, last week was a particularly good one for teachers).
And what happens to the children of two-job parents? Who will mind them while the schools are closed, yet the rest of the economy (well, what's left of it) still functions?
Okay, so you teachers don't like me writing a column like this, and you'll probably ask silly, angry questions at your next conferences about how much I earn, and how easy I have it. These are irrelevancies. Just answer this, please. When we saw ordinary working people rising well before dawn on bitterly cold mornings across Ireland to make sure they'd get to their jobs on time, in what way were you doing your Socratic duty by not working? If all the economic institutions of Ireland, our buses, our trains, our airlines, and this newspaper, were able to operate in those Arctic conditions, why not the schools (or, indeed, dear God, Trinity College)?
I don't want to appear melodramatic here, but we all know what is now at stake: the very survival of Ireland as a self-governing entity, rather than as an abject economic colony of the ECB. So, in precisely what way have Ireland's teachers been helping Ireland's future in the past 10 days?
Equally, what lesson have they been teaching the schoolchildren in their charge? That bad weather is a good excuse for dossing?
- Kevin Myers
Irish Independent

I dont get it myself either though. Last week, at the first hint of snow, while the rest of us were getting up earlier to struggle to work, my teachers friends were on FB gloating about their duvet days. they even decided well before the weekend in alot of cases, around Wednesday, that they'd be closed until at least the middle of this week.

I dont buy this whole 'the kids can slip and claim' from us argument either. Apart from the fact that kid seem to get on fine every where else during the snow - local farmers or machine owners are in no cases that I'm aware of asked to clear the grounds which is something I'm sure they would gladly do. When I was a kids there was heating problems - surely in this day and age that's no excuse either.

They are the most vocal, the most militant of public servants out there and yet they unashamedly snuggle up in front of the fire when there a few inches of snow. No excuse for that except laziness...it's harsh, but I dont buy any of their reasoning.

kfallon

Facebook is for cnuts!

karma_

That gobshíte is one to talk about Socratic duty.

thebigbiffo

kfallon wrote: »

Facebook is for cnuts!

that's why i signed up - kinda like a social club for c'unts:pac:

storm2811

If a principal decides to close a school then it's closed, end of, not much the teachers can do.
Also with country schools like mine about 70% of the students don't live in the town and when the back roads are icy, as they are now, the bus drivers won't drive on them and what's the point going to work when there's no children to teach?

up for anything

My neighbour left this morning at 7.00am to drive the 45 miles to where she teaches. She hasn't missed a day yet due to the roads, unless her school has been closed. She says she would feel especially guilty about her leaving cert pupils if she didn't go in. I moan about getting out of the estate which is probably the easiest part of her drive.





ETA: Kevin Myers gives me a pain in the ass and not in a good way.

lucy2010

Teachers dont choose to close the school. Chair of the board generally makes that decision in conjunction with school management. I know many a teacher who is bracing themselves for the new reality of summer holidays possibly starting in Mid July next year if they have to make up the days.

thebigbiffo

storm2811 wrote: »

If a principal decides to close a school then it's closed, end of, not much the teachers can do.
Also with country schools like mine about 70% of the students don't live in the town and when the back roads are icy, as they are now, the bus drivers won't drive on them and what's the point going to work when there's no children to teach?

principle = teacher. i'm aware that principles make that decision and in actual fact that makes it worse. my MD wouldn't dream of shutting down the entire operation just because it's snowing.

and what about 2 parent working families? they would make sure to get their kids to school if the bus wasn't running but instead they've been forced to take days off due to full closures. not on imo.

anyway, this craic of not being able to get anywhere is b'ollox. 95% of the country is perfectly ok to drive on as long as you give yourself enough time.

thebigbiffo

lucy2010 wrote: »

I know many a teacher who is bracing themselves for the new reality of summer holidays possibly starting in Mid July next year if they have to make up the days.

aww bless their poor souls:pac:

storm2811

thebigbiffo wrote: »

principle = teacher. i'm aware that principles make that decision and in actual fact that makes it worse. my MD wouldn't dream of shutting down the entire operation just because it's snowing.

and what about 2 parent working families? they would make sure to get their kids to school if the bus wasn't running but instead they've been forced to take days off due to full closures. not on imo.

anyway, this craic of not being able to get anywhere is b'ollox. 95% of the country is perfectly ok to drive on as long as you give yourself enough time.

I'd agree with the part about the parents having to stay home due to closures but there's not much that can be done but hire a babysitter.

No, the roads are NOT okay to drive on, the main roads yes, but the backroads, no feckin way.
A busdriver would be mad to try and drive a coach full of children on the lanes, most of them are like sheets of ice atm.

lucy2010

Principal ,only in teaching principal positions is not a teacher, they are a manager. Do employees make decisions to close companies for snow? No, the MD does .

Herb Powell

thebigbiffo wrote: »

anyway, this craic of not being able to get anywhere is b'ollox. 95% of the country is perfectly ok to drive on as long as you give yourself enough time.

nope, I live on a ****e country road with 2 big hills I have to get UP AND DOWN if I want to go anywhere. And that's aside from whatever condition the roads are in after that. I couldn't get groceries until Sunday ffs. The couple of inches of ice made driving impossible and stupid.

I hate the use of the word "troll". So he's living under a bridge, is it?

msg11

Firstly the guy sounds like a moron.

The schools close down for many reasons.

If the heating fails they can't have pupils in freezing conditions.

If someone falls, they will more than likly sue the bollox out of the school, which will send the operation cost of the school up threw the roof sending the budget out the window.

School teach people not make money unlike supermarkets, papers, airoports.

What I also I don't get is that people look at a school as some form of child day care , which it is not.

So if they want to close the school let them. I am sure there is a bloody good reason for it. There would be a handful of teachers who would like the day off, but I could put money on it that a hell of alot of them would rather be there. Christmas exams , Junior Cert and Leaving Certs years they ain't going to move the dates cause of the snow, and I doubt a teacher would want to look poorly in front of other staff.

Degsy

thebigbiffo wrote: »

anyway, this craic of not being able to get anywhere is b'ollox. 95% of the country is perfectly ok to drive on as long as you give yourself enough time.

So what like,three to four hours to get to school maybe?
You're talking out your arse.

thebigbiffo

storm2811 wrote: »

I'd agree with the part about the parents having to stay home due to closures but there's not much that can be done but hire a babysitter.

No, the roads are NOT okay to drive on, the main roads yes, but the backroads, no feckin way.
A busdriver would be mad to try and drive a coach full of children on the lanes, most of them are like sheets of ice atm.

yes but i'm not talking about running buses - 90% of employees in every other organisation as far as i can see are making work. they should be there whether 2 children show up or 200 so parents have the choice to get them there if need be. very very few people are stranded - i drive back roads every day and i know it's difficult but anybody who says not to drive at all on secondary roads is either not a confident driver, a bad driver or has a penchant for the dramatic. btw: i've 2 kids and i could not organise a babysitter at the drop of a hat.

lucy2010 wrote: »

Principal ,only in teaching principal positions is not a teacher, they are a manager. Do employees make decisions to close companies for snow? No, the MD does .

doesn't matter, same difference. as said before, they are the only MD/Managers in the country who decided at the drop of a hat (along with their management committees) to close altogether, and not just on a day to day basis but for a prolonged period. i think it beggars belief.

Fratton Fred

My daughters school was closed Friday and that's all. The school next door has been closed for over a week now. How can one stay open and one be forced to close?

Mind you, one of the teachers got married a few weeks back, so they closed the whole school for the day. She has been engaged for two years yet couldn't manage to get married during the 9 weeks of holiday, or even a Saturday for that matter.

Blondini

thebigbiffo wrote: »

principle = teacher..

Principal

thebigbiffo wrote: »

95% of the country is perfectly ok to drive on as long as you give yourself enough time.

Incorrect

Herb Powell

thebigbiffo wrote: »

i drive back roads every day and i know it's difficult but anybody who says not to drive at all on secondary roads is either not a confident driver, a bad driver or has a penchant for the dramatic..

I'd call sliding 200m down a hill uncontrollably fairly dramatic

msg11

Fratton Fred wrote: »

My daughters school was closed Friday and that's all. The school next door has been closed for over a week now. How can one stay open and one be forced to close?

Different management, would see fit to open other dose not.

I don't know what the other thing has to do with snow or anything?

thebigbiffo

Degsy wrote: »

So what like,three to four hours to get to school maybe?
You're talking out your arse.

i live in the country and do not go near a main road on my commute as does my wife who drops the kids to the creche/playschool; they haven't closed incidentally, probably because their a private company and run professionally unlike schools. i manage my commute according to the extra time it takes to travel - why can teachers?

you're forgetting also that schools are community based - so i dont know where you're getting 3-4 hours from assuming you're talking about the kids being dropped there.

thebigbiffo

Blondini wrote: »

Incorrect

link?

Japer

thebigbiffo wrote: »

I dont get it myself either though. Last week, at the first hint of snow, while the rest of us were getting up earlier to struggle to work, my teachers friends were on FB gloating about their duvet days. they even decided well before the weekend in alot of cases, around Wednesday, that they'd be closed until at least the middle of this week.

I dont buy this whole 'the kids can slip and claim' from us argument either. Apart from the fact that kid seem to get on fine every where else during the snow - local farmers or machine owners are in no cases that I'm aware of asked to clear the grounds which is something I'm sure they would gladly do. When I was a kids there was heating problems - surely in this day and age that's no excuse either.

They are the most vocal, the most militant of public servants out there and yet they unashamedly snuggle up in front of the fire when there a few inches of snow. No excuse for that except laziness...it's harsh, but I dont buy any of their reasoning.

Myers is right about the teachers. Remember on RTE tv a few years ago and there was a group of them outside the overseas property exhibition in Dublin, bragging about how they "invested" in overseas property as they needed somewhere to go to when on holidays and when they retired, and it showed 2 of them after buying in Dubai. Ask any auctioneer who was the biggest buyer of holiday homes during the boom + he/she will unhesitantingly say the teachers / lecturers. Now they can sit at the fire, look forward to their nice long Xmas holidays and laugh at the minister for finance giving his budget and at the rest of us.

Sparkyd2002

Kevin Myers is talking out of his arse and being deliberately provocative as always. teachers do not make decision to close schools. The board of management does.Now i have been driving back roads to and from work allweek.I have had my journey time doubled driving at sloooow speeds and getting up earlier to get to work. Im pi**ed off that our local school closed for a whole week but I dont blame the teachers. yes some of them probably milked it and maybe some even posted on their face book pages boasting. Clowns if they did but that doesnt change the fact it wasnt their decision. Myers always has an agenda, an axe to grind with the establishment (take the catholic priest comment as a clue there!) and while im no fan of either the unions, the public service or the catholic church I unlike Myers will not try and blame them if my car doesnt start, or if my house floods or the damn roads are icy. people like him being deliberately inflammatory about everything undermine the genuine concern us level headed normal people have about society and the state of the country. God I'd even take his attack on school teachers a bit more seriously if he even had kids!

Blondini

thebigbiffo wrote: »

i live in the country and do not go near a main road on my commute as does my wife who drops the kids to the creche/playschool; they haven't closed incidentally, probably because their a private company and run professionally unlike schools. i manage my commute according to the extra time it takes to travel - why can teachers?

you're forgetting also that schools are community based - so i dont know where you're getting 3-4 hours from assuming you're talking about the kids being dropped there.

The standard of grammar in this posts explains your vendetta against teachers. You obviously had a poor learning experience.

Fratton Fred

msg11 wrote: »

Different management, would see fit to open other dose not. U

I don't know what the other thing has to do with snow or anything?

Differentwork ethic is the correct phrase,

Mardy Bum

The Principal closes the school or in some cases the Board of Management however let that not hinder the anti-teacher gobsh*te posts from all the experts.


Principal =/= teacher

Principal=former teacher

thebigbiffo

Blondini wrote: »

The standard of grammar in this posts explains your vendetta against teachers. You obviously had a poor learning experience.

your in the wrong thread for that kind of condesending s'hite there buddy - go somewhere else.

see bold writing in quotes for your embarassing fall back to reality - how utterly utterly stupid you've just made yourself look.

Sparkyd2002

thebigbiffo wrote: »

your in the wrong thread for that kind of condesending s'hite there buddy - go somewhere else.

see bold writing in quotes for your embarassing fall back to reality - how utterly utterly stupid you've just made yourself look.

ROFL:)

ascanbe

That article is dumb and lazy even my Myers standards.

Nicki123

Blondini wrote: »

The standard of grammar in this posts explains your vendetta against teachers. You obviously had a poor learning experience.

Wow - how ignorant! You're obviously a teacher on a "snow day", with nothing better to do than make personal comments about a person you know nothing about. How clever of you :rolleyes:

Blondini

thebigbiffo wrote: »

your in the wrong thread for that kind of condesending s'hite there buddy - go somewhere else.

see bold writing in quotes for your embarassing fall back to reality - how utterly utterly stupid you've just made yourself look.

tanx 4 dat

msg11

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Differentwork ethic is the correct phrase,

Again it's up too one person at the end of the day, teachers don't have a say in the matter. If it's open, they show up as on time as they can.

What has holiday homes and the budget got to do with schools closing cause of the snow ? Nothing.

So what if they get good holidays, pay and have a holiday home. They do a great job, I got a great education from my school. And some of the little horrors they had to deal with, it aint as peachy as it's you might think. If I had to deal with that type of ****e from customers in my job I would be up for murder.

Kimono-Girl

The big biffo has a point, i'm in cork and we had 1 day of snow (last Tuesday)and icy conditions since then,

Businesses are open everywhere from the small country shops to the city stores! yet schools in cork city closed anyway or some for what ever reasons i cannot understand the teachers who made it in with no problems at 9am had to leave at 12/1pm because of the ice??? Friday was declared to be the worst day for ice UCC stayed open CIT shut at 1pm on friday.

in a school a relative of mine goes to, one teacher was quoted as saying how delighted she was she got all her Christmas shopping done the day previously! the same teacher who the day before was 'worried' about getting home!

it is a joke!

msg11 wrote: »

Again it's up too one person at the end of the day, teachers don't have a say in the matter.

but teachers are the ones putting pressure on the principle to close the school (see my point above)

Blondini

Nicki123 wrote: »

Wow - how ignorant! You're obviously a teacher on a "snow day", with nothing better to do than make personal comments about a person you know nothing about. How clever of you :rolleyes:

True. Now back to facebook for me ....

Smcgie

He's absolutely spot on.

midlandsmissus

F*cking teachers.

All the facebook statuses bragging and boasting about snow days are REALLY not endearing you to the nation.

Example:

"It's hard having to roll over in bed listening to others outside defrosting their cars"

"I'll think of you at half eight in the morning...when I'm rolling over for another 4 hrs sleep!"

Notice to my own teacher friends: I am sick of your gammy updates!!!!

Japer

Sparkyd2002 wrote: »

teachers do not make decision to close schools. The board of management does

Not in my local school, the principal makes the decision ( after chatting with some of the other staff / teachers ).

If they had to work back during the holidays they would not close so easily.

Foreigners who come from countries where an inch of snow does not grind everything to a halt are only LAUGHING at us.

Sparkyd2002

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

The big biffo has a point, i'm in cork and we had 1 day of snow (last Tuesday)and icy conditions since then,

Businesses are open everywhere from the small country shops to the city stores! yet schools in cork city closed anyway or some for what ever reasons i cannot understand the teachers who made it in with no problems at 9am had to leave at 12/1pm because of the ice??? Friday was declared to be the worst day for ice UCC stayed open CIT shut at 1pm on friday.

in a school a relative of mine goes to, one teacher was quoted as saying how delighted she was she got all her Christmas shopping done the day previously! the same teacher who the day before was 'worried' about getting home!

it is a joke!





but teachers are the ones putting pressure on the principle to close the school (see my point above)

To be fair Cork wasnt as bad as the rest of the country and even though our school in east cork did have treacherous roads to and from it I still didnt see the need to close for a whole week. There was a bit of mass hysteria going on here to my mind,. the papers,radioi TV etc. all saying the conditions were deadly so there is a knee jerkl reaction. i agree that Boards of management have teachers on them but its still a bit unfair and inflammatory to paint the picture myers does. basically he takes the position of the Prosecution in a case. Someone just needs to see this from the defense perspective (and no Im not a lawyer:-) )

Anyway agree schools shudnt have been closed, and that some teachers milked it but WHO WOULDNT. I just wouldnt be stupid enough to broadcast my xmas shopping expedition and duvet day trap giving Myers type journalism leverage.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I don't mean to generalise but I think Kevin Myers is right about pretty much everything.

thebigbiffo

just in response to the posters pointing out that the principle/board of management makes the decision. really, that's irrelevant. ok, maybe you cant blame the teachers per se but you can certainly blame the system that allows such a massive decision in the lives of parents be taken so lightly. it's part of the culture that teachers are a part of and propogate that closures happen so quickly and with such disregard for the community.

HarryPotter41

thebigbiffo wrote: »

yes but i'm not talking about running buses - 90% of employees in every other organisation as far as i can see are making work. they should be there whether 2 children show up or 200 so parents have the choice to get them there if need be. very very few people are stranded - i drive back roads every day and i know it's difficult but anybody who says not to drive at all on secondary roads is either not a confident driver, a bad driver or has a penchant for the dramatic. btw: i've 2 kids and i could not organise a babysitter at the drop of a hat.

I consider myself a good driver in these conditions and still managed to slide off the road on my way home from work on Sunday morning on a road that was just a complete sheet of ice ( as did a few more people in the same vicinity ), as well as a few more of the people I work with had tips on the same morning going different routes, so I find your comment slightly ridiculous.

folan

Doesnt the govt decide if the teachers make the days up?

Having slid past 2 schools this morning in my car, im not sure i would be happy letting my kids go to school in this weather. Not that i have any.

Sure, i can leave early to get to work on time, but then who looks after getting the kids to school.

I have no issue with schools closing.

I wouldnt mind if my place closed. id be bragging from bed too.

#15

Japer wrote: »

Ask any auctioneer who was the biggest buyer of holiday homes during the boom + he/she will unhesitantingly say the teachers / lecturers.

Myth.

Japer wrote: »

Not in my local school, the principal makes the decision ( after chatting with some of the other staff / teachers ).

No, the final call rests with the BoM. This is basic stuff.

thebigbiffo

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

I consider myself a good driver in these conditions and still managed to slide off the road on my way home from work on Sunday morning on a road that was just a complete sheet of ice ( as did a few more people in the same vicinity ), as well as a few more of the people I work with had tips on the same morning going different routes, so I find your comment slightly ridiculous.

the fact that you and many others were driving on sunday morning proves my point.

people are still going about their business with the risks in mind and doing the best the can. of course there's been slides, tips etc. but life goes on and we try out best - unless you're a teacher that is.

midlandsmissus

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

I consider myself a good driver in these conditions and still managed to slide off the road on my way home from work on Sunday morning on a road that was just a complete sheet of ice ( as did a few more people in the same vicinity ), as well as a few more of the people I work with had tips on the same morning going different routes, so I find your comment slightly ridiculous.

I would agree with the bigbiffo. I've been driving all over back roads the last week, much fuss about nothing, and I'm in one of the most snowed in parts of the country. If you go at a safe speed, you are fine. It's just a bit of snow!!

#15

thebigbiffo wrote: »

just in response to the posters pointing out that the principle/board of management makes the decision. really, that's irrelevant.

No it isn't.

It's completely relevant when Myers is directing his ire at the staff and not at the various boards of management.

folan

thebigbiffo wrote: »

the fact that you and many others were driving on sunday morning proves my point.

people are still going about their business with the risks in mind and doing the best the can. of course there's been slides, tips etc. but life goes on and we try out best - unless you're a teacher that is.

Risk: kid slips on icey yard going to school, breaks arm.

Managing a school, BoMs would be thinking like that. its the other side of it.

#15

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I would agree with the bigbiffo. I've been driving all over back roads the last week, much fuss about nothing, and I'm in one of the most snowed in parts of the country. If you go at a safe speed, you are fine. It's just a bit of snow!!

Have you been ''driving all over back roads'' with a massive gang of kids in the back?

HarryPotter41

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I would agree with the bigbiffo. I've been driving all over back roads the last week, much fuss about nothing, and I'm in one of the most snowed in parts of the country. If you go at a safe speed, you are fine. It's just a bit of snow!!

The problem is we no longer have snow on the roads, if we had we would have grip, we have showers of rain falling on roads that are below freezing temperatures and freezing in layers, giving us ice rinks, personally I regret going to work Saturday night/Sunday morning because I will now be paying 4 times what I earned to repair my car.

thebigbiffo

folan wrote: »

Having slid past 2 schools this morning in my car, im not sure i would be happy letting my kids go to school in this weather. Not that i have any.

the point is - and you'd know if you had kids - it's a choice of either school or work for most parents. myself and my wife work (kids are creche and playschool thank god) and we've no choice but to get the kids to where they need to. if they were in school there'd be no choice but to take days off - this is unacceptable imo. every other class of organisation opens except schools. what a joke.