Josh McDaniels fired

Peyton Manning

Would it be a stretch to link McDaniels with the Miami job? I would absolutely love to see a Josh McDaniels playbook in College Football!

spiralism

feelingstressed wrote: »

Orton is doing fine, in fact far better then fine. (I'm agreeing with you here)

The problems from the Broncos aren't on Orton

Dumbervil was a loss for example

But then I suppose the QB often gets the blame when things go badly
I for one never liked the win loss record attached to a QB but that's going offtopic

I pretty much agree on that post on all fronts, it aint fair on the lad..
Like, in what world does a fella pass 4,000 yards(barring injury and like 90 yard outputs his remaining 4 games, that will happen) and over 20 TDs with less than 10 INTs and a rating higher than manning and still get woeful stick...

But if the main two broncos boards are anything to go by the general thought is "bawwww look at cutler and his winning record, we're such idiots" or "orton sucks, cut him and put Tebow in"

The whole win loss record thing is b******s for a qb tbh, lot more to a team than a good qb, even if your name is peyton manning, as this year has shown.

frostie500 wrote: »

He might go with Tebow long term but he would definitly be rolling behind Orton for at the very least his first year. Youre right about Orton being a scapegoat and I dont understand why, he has performed way better then expectation for his two seasons and looks to be a second tier QB in the NFL (not elite but more than capable of leading a team)

He's more than capable, high quality starter at any rate, if we offered him to minnesota or arizona they would bite our hands off i'd say

frostie500

spiralism wrote: »

He's more than capable, high quality starter at any rate, if we offered him to minnesota or arizona they would bite our hands off i'd say

They might bite your hands off but not with a first rounder, thats the problem with the Tebow pick as far as Im concerned. They traded away too much for a player that might be great. As I said throughout the draft he is a boom or bust player and needs to be given time and proper coaching to develop that potential

spiralism

frostie500 wrote: »

They might bite your hands off but not with a first rounder, thats the problem with the Tebow pick as far as Im concerned. They traded away too much for a player that might be great. As I said throughout the draft he is a boom or bust player and needs to be given time and proper coaching to develop that potential

Was on about orton actually, but its a good point

frostie500

spiralism wrote: »

Was on about orton actually, but its a good point

That makes a lot more sense!:D

Prefab Sprouter

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Fingers cross Broncos will hire Norv turner and chargers will hire McDaniels. :pac:

oh if only!!

eagle eye

Excellent article from Michael Lombardi on Josh McDaniels. I'm fully agreement with him.

What happened to Josh McDaniels on Monday, being fired not even two full years into his tenure with the Denver Broncos, was, as Yogi Berra once said, "Déjà vu all over again." At least it was for me.
I saw this before, back in 1996, when I was director of player personnel for the Browns and owner Art Modell fired Bill Belichick over the phone on Valentine's Day. Modell struggled with the fans' reluctance to embrace their young coach from his first day on the job. Modell struggled with the losing season as the team planned to move from Cleveland to Baltimore. More than anything, he struggled with staying with the plan. Modell failed to see the future, as he wanted to make the fans happy and never felt there was more than a ripple of hope staying the course with his youthful coach.
Having worked side by side with Belichick for five years, I honestly knew one day he was going to eventually win a Super Bowl, in part because he was super smart and had a willingness to adapt. He was always divergent in his thought process. He was, and still is, the best listener I have ever been around.
With Belichick, there was never an ego in the room. He only focused on what was urgent and important each day. He had core principles and beliefs he adhered to, never wavering off those beliefs. But in Cleveland, he could not overcome the changes he insisted on making, which alienated the fan base and caused concern for Modell. And when the 1995 season slipped away from us, we all knew we were in trouble.
In any sport, losing is extremely difficult -- it's hard on the mind, body and spirit. It challenges every prior belief an organization holds true, forcing constant evaluations of the path, the direction and the journey chosen for the organization. It is human nature to second-guess every move on a losing path. Few, in most sports, are willing to brave the losing, the criticism of the media, or the wrath of their fans. Believing in principles and having the courage to stand alone is a rarer quality than bravery in battle or superior intelligence. Yet it is the one essential for teams that desire to win Super Bowls.
When Belichick was hired in Cleveland, Modell had no idea what he had, or what Belichick could eventually become. He never thought in three dimensions, or hired with a plan; he just hoped for success, in large part because Modell based every decision on what the media and the fans thought. Modell had a wonderful heart. He wanted to make his fan base happy, therefore hiring Belichick after winning a Super Bowl with the New York Giants was great, and firing him after the fans revolted was also great -- never mind he just extended his contract.
Belichick's success in New England was due to his experience in Cleveland -- that Modell financed and Patriots owner Robert Kraft now enjoys. Any time a team hires a young coach or a young executive, one must think in a three-dimensional way. Does he have the aptitude to be a successful leader? Does he have the willingness to grow? Do we have the strength to handle the turbulent times?
Modell paid for Belichick's education as a head coach, an education that has to be lived, not learned. There are no schools to attend to be a successful coach in the NFL. And just because an assistant works for a successful coach does not ensure success when it comes time for a promotion to the head coach's chair.
When the Broncos hired McDaniels and turned over all the power to him, they had to understand there would likely be tough times. But did they?
As an outsider looking in, when the Broncos hired McDaniels, I thought they were willing to change the direction of their organization. Having spent a brief time volunteering my services as a consultant to Mike Shanahan, I saw firsthand Denver's ridiculous spending on players, the failure to have a personnel department, and the constant approach to repair as opposed to rebuild. Therefore, when the Broncos fired Shanahan following the 2008 season and decided to change the course, eliminating the free-spending of the past, the move signaled to me that they wanted to try the Patriot Way, which centers on building a total team through the draft, cut spending in free agency and develop coaches and players from within.

Initially, it made sense to me, as most owners tend to hire the opposite of what they just fired. Firing McDaniels 28 games into his tenure as the head coach is bad for both parties. It wasn't enough time for the team to be fully developed, or enough time for McDaniels to grow into the job.
And therein lies the problem -- the Broncos wanted to change, but were not committed to change. Once they slipped into a different world, they longed to be back to their old ways of doing things. They really love the Bronco Way.
Never mind they have only won one playoff game in the last 12 years. Never mind they lack talent on the field, or are going to be paying three head coaches as a result of McDaniels' firing. Never mind they might have to take two steps back to move forward. Clearly, this move means the Broncos long for their old days, and potentially bringing John Elway back into the organization signals how much they miss those days.
Why does it seem that most of Belichick's assistants never attain a high level of success when becoming a head coach? It might appear that way on the surface, however the coaches involved with Belichick in Cleveland have done well -- from Pat Hill at Fresno State to Kirk Ferentz at Iowa to Nick Saban at Alabama.
And the ones who have only been in New England -- Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel and now McDaniels -- have missed the element of what went into developing the program in Cleveland, therefore they missed a huge step in the evolution. The failure rate among NFL coaches, regardless of their background is high. However when coaches leave an established program like the one in New England, not every owner is willing to embrace the time it takes to lay the foundation. Also, not all the new coaches carry Belichick's uncanny ability to evaluate talent, and also what his team needs to be successful.
Belichick's success lies in his ability to coach, but also in his ability to be the general manager. He can wear two hats, and not every coach that leaves the Patriots can do the same.
Broncos chief operating officer Joe Ellis said Tuesday that the team was at fault for giving McDaniels too much power too soon.
While that might be true, I believe McDaniels will one day be a successful head coach. I believe this because I know what it takes to be successful in the league. I've never worked with Josh, nor have I spent much time around him. But I have observed him each week, from his game plans to his teams' performance on the field. His teams might not have been the most talented, but they were well-coached, well-designed and well-prepared.
McDaniels will learn from his tenure in Denver, just as Belichick learned from his time in Cleveland, and some other owner willing to change will benefit greatly.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81cba03b/article/mcdaniels-paid-price-for-broncos-lack-of-commitment-to-change?module=HP_cp2

spiralism

eagle eye wrote: »

Excellent article from Michael Lombardi on Josh McDaniels. I'm fully agreement with him.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81cba03b/article/mcdaniels-paid-price-for-broncos-lack-of-commitment-to-change?module=HP_cp2

Very fair comparison to make, he'll get his chance again some day.. i just wish he came to us in his "belichick at pats" phase instead of his "belichick at cleveland" phase

Anyways, hes gone now and we're beginning the process of moving on, what does anyone else here think the broncos need to do this offseason to become a contender again, and fast? no talk of lengthy rebuilds, it can be done quickly and yet another season around the middle or lower end of the NFL wouldn't bear a whole lot of thinking about

Chucky the tree

neilster wrote: »

A man that made Raider relevant again

And won a ring with Tampa

Gruden is brash but he can get it done

Left both of those teams in a mess with little to no talent though. Not to mention he took over a very good Tampa team.

neilster

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Left both of those teams in a mess with little to no talent though. Not to mention he took over a very good Tampa team.

Just wrong he imporoved Raiders from 4-12 to 8-8 twice follwed by two consecutive Playoff appearances culiminating in Championship Game

Year after one better with Super Bowl nd from 05-07 there was 2 playoff appearances in 3 years , even in the year he was fired it was 9-7

Tampa was loaded with vets at the end but thats football

irishbucsfan

neilster wrote: »

A man that made Raider relevant again

And won a ring with Tampa

Gruden is brash but he can get it done

From a Bucs fan, you don't want Gruden anywhere near your franchise. The guy took us from being a Superbowl team to being one of the worst teams in the NFL. He destroyed talent and drafted terribly. Look at our starting team now. How many of those guys were drafted by Gruden? Very very few.

Joseph and Trueblood on the Oline and Quincy Black/Aqib Talib were Gruden picks. 4 decent picks from over 5 years in charge? Pathetic.

eagle eye

irishbucsfan wrote: »

From a Bucs fan, you don't want Gruden anywhere near your franchise. The guy took us from being a Superbowl team to being one of the worst teams in the NFL. He destroyed talent and drafted terribly. Look at our starting team now. How many of those guys were drafted by Gruden? Very very few.

Joseph and Trueblood on the Oline and Quincy Black/Aqib Talib were Gruden picks. 4 decent picks from over 5 years in charge? Pathetic.

Barret Rudd immediately stands out as somebody you have left out. Jeremy Zutah and Geno Hayes from the 2008 draft? Will Allen was a special teams ace who went to the Steelers this year.

Arron Sears was doing a good job there until the concussion thing. Tanard Jackson was pretty good too, is he still a Buc? I know he is suspended but he was a pretty decent player.

neilster

irishbucsfan wrote: »

From a Bucs fan, you don't want Gruden anywhere near your franchise. The guy took us from being a Superbowl team to being one of the worst teams in the NFL. He destroyed talent and drafted terribly. Look at our starting team now. How many of those guys were drafted by Gruden? Very very few.

Joseph and Trueblood on the Oline and Quincy Black/Aqib Talib were Gruden picks. 4 decent picks from over 5 years in charge? Pathetic.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

From a Bucs fan, you don't want Gruden anywhere near your franchise. The guy took us from being a Superbowl team to being one of the worst teams in the NFL. He destroyed talent and drafted terribly. Look at our starting team now. How many of those guys were drafted by Gruden? Very very few.

Joseph and Trueblood on the Oline and Quincy Black/Aqib Talib were Gruden picks. 4 decent picks from over 5 years in charge? Pathetic.

I think you are bypassing a couple of central facts , Dungy and Kiffin with the Tampa 2 and drafting of the personnel for that system designed the single most effective defense of the last 20 years but they couldnt do the same with offence

This is the single biggest reason Gruden came , he made the brad johnson signing and Keyshawn along with others and won a super bowl . That was the aim and he done it . In six years after that there was 4 division titles and 4 winning records

You are not mentioning the fact that the glazers pay bad money and allowed a lot of vets to walk , and that winning vets on a Super Bowl winning team were quite rightly held onto which was a big factor in the way personnel were handled 06-08, where they were also allowed to walk as they were good players but expensive in free agency

My main gripe in the draft would be the QB situation but Gruden was behind Rich Gannon propelling the Raiders to two AFC Championship games in two years and he won a Super Bowl with a veteran Dungy didnt sign Brad Johnson

Also factor in that Tampa had no No1 or 2 pick in 02 & 03 pick in 02 which obviously weakened things . Of first rounders Talib is a hit and Davin Joseph is a probowler , not a miss but a partial hit , Cadillac Willimas has had 3 good years and 2 horrible injured years so i would call that a good but unlucky pick, Michael Clayton has a good 2004 season but the rest is forgettable so a bust

in 02
No 1st rounder
No 2nd rounder
3rd rd Marquise Walker was a bust at WR but it was 86th pick!
4th rd bust
5th rd Jermaine Phillips starting safety with SB ring and played till 2009 left free agency , 4 interceptions in 2007, resigned in 09 .....hit
6th round John Stamper bust (not unusual from 6th round , didnt make roster)
7th Round Tim Wansley , played 16 games , 2 Interceptions , free agency in 04 , partial hit from 7th round


in 03
No 1st rounder
2nd Round- Dewayne White....appeared in 44 games ...went to Lions ..partial hit
3rd rd - Chris Simms ...bust
4th rd - Austin King ...waived ...bust
5th rd -Sean Mahan ...starter until 2007 when he left in FAgency , was on 07 Caddy Williams Offensive line of Year ...hit
6th rd - Torrie Cox , signed until 2010, played 57 games and 4 years as CB starter ....hit from 6th round
7th rd - No pick

in 04
1st rd-Michael Clayton...good 1200 yrd rookie year but injured and partial bust
2nd rd-No pick
3rd rd-Marquis Cooper...released in 06 ...bust
4th rd-Will Allen - starting safety ...hit
5th rd-Jeb Terry ...bust
6th rd-Nate Lawrie ...practice squad 04 & 05 , partial hit
7th rd-Casey Cramer - cut
Lenny Williams- waived
Mark Jones- waived

in 05
1st rd- Cad Williams - hit
2nd rd- Barrett Rudd - starting linebacker - hit
3rd rd- Alex Smith ...started 43 games in 4 years ...traded to Pats , partial hit
Chris Colmer- cut 07 bust
4th rd- Dan Buenning - cut 07 bust
5th rd-Donte Nicholson....stayed to 09 partial hit
Larry Brackins...bust training camp cut
6th rd-Anthony Bryant...cut 06 bust
7th rd-Rick razzano...cut
Hamza Abdullah


in 06
1st rd- Davin Joseph ...starter 54 games of 56 ...probowl 08 ...hit
2nd rd-Jeremy Trueblood...starter 54 games of 56 ...hit
3rd rd-Maurice Stovall....starter on special teams 06-present , 400yds recieving 2009 ...good WR4 or WR5..hit
4th rd-Alan Zemaitis..injured from day one ...released
5th rd-Julian Jenkins..bust cut in 07
6th rd-Gradkowski ...partial hit considering 6th rounder
7th rd-cut

in 07
1st rd-Gaines Adams ...traded...bust RIP
2nd rd-Arron Sears..played 31 games until waived over neurological condition...hit
3rd rd-Sabby Piscitelli...released 2010 ...bust
4th rd-Quincy Black...starting lineback ...hit
5th rd-Tanard Jackson..starting Free safety ...started all games 07,08, 09 and suspended in 2010 for steroids ...hit
6th rd-Greg Peterson...released 08
7th rd-Adam Hayward 07-present ...partial hit as still in Tampa from 7th rd


in 08
1st rd-Aqib Talib ...hit
2nd rd- Dexter jackson ...bad bust
3rd rd-Jeremy Zuttah, has covered all across the O-line ....good cover player ...partial success
4th rd-Dre Moore, cut and resigned and cut again ...bust
5th rd-Josh Johnson ....good backup , reasonable value on draft , partial success
6th rd-Geno Hayes ...90 tackes before suspension ...partial success
7th rd-Cory Boyd...cut 2008
undrafted - Clifton smith ProBowler ...punt and kick return TD plus one russhing touchdown , relaeased due to roster pressure 2010, starting in Cleveland now...hit

look through these, arent bad drafts ...the missing high picks undoubtedly hurt the depth ...check out 2009 Cowboys for a bad draft ...

neilster

eagle eye wrote: »

Barret Rudd immediately stands out as somebody you have left out. Jeremy Zutah and Geno Hayes from the 2008 draft? Will Allen was a special teams ace who went to the Steelers this year.

Arron Sears was doing a good job there until the concussion thing. Tanard Jackson was pretty good too, is he still a Buc? I know he is suspended but he was a pretty decent player.

Good NFL drafting is much maligned and misunderstood , round 6 & 7 picks by and large are successes if they stay with the franchise past the next season and 50% success in rounds 1-5 is very good ....to my reckoning , Gruden has been ok .....he just never sorted the QB issue which was the principal failing

Peyton Manning

Ladies and gentlemen, it's Tebow time.

The great one gets his first NFL start on Sunday @ Oakland according to Schefter.

Chucky the tree

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Ladies and gentlemen, it's Tebow time.

The great one gets his first NFL start on Sunday @ Oakland according to Schefter.

Delighted. Can't wait to see how he does against one of the best pass rushing D lines in the nfl.

spiralism

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Delighted. Can't wait to see how he does against one of the best pass rushing D lines in the nfl.

Incidentally, not that bad. shame the same couldn't be said for the "defence".

Loved the way he was able to avoid the rush at times yesterday, he had raiders in his face half the day

neilster

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Delighted. Can't wait to see how he does against one of the best pass rushing D lines in the nfl.

I thought Tebow done ok but he is miles away from being prepared and a new coach will decide coldly what to do ....reckon he needs another year but he certainly could get there ...honestly i wouldnt have said that a month ago