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Zionist Mainstream media

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  • 04-12-2010 7:29pm
    #1
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭


    I didn't want to post in the other thread as somethings are better left to die. The point of this thread is that some people for reasons best know to themselves don't seem to realise that there is a pro-Zionist agenda in the mainstream media - in particular in the US. With that in mind I have kept an eye out for good examples of Zionist propoganda/hasbara. Here are two:

    Manufacturing consent through omission.


    november 17, 2010
    “PUT THE PALESTINIANS ON A DIET” - MEDIA BURY DOCUMENTS REVEALING ISRAEL’S DELIBERATE POLICY OF NEAR-STARVATION FOR GAZA

    Israel has been forced to reveal what Palestinians and other observers on the ground have known for a long time: that the blockade of Gaza is state policy intended to inflict collective punishment, not to bolster Israeli “security”.

    An Israeli human rights group has won a legal battle to compel the Israeli government to release three important documents. These outline state policy for permitting the transfer of goods into Gaza prior to the May 31 attack on the peace flotilla in which nine people were killed by Israeli forces. The group, Gisha – Legal Center for Freedom of Movement, is demanding Israeli transparency. Meanwhile, Israel refuses to release documents on the current version of blockade policy which was “eased” after international condemnation following the flotilla attack.

    The released documents, whose existence Israel had denied for eighteen months, reveal that the state approved “a policy of deliberate reduction” of basic goods, including food and fuel, in the Gaza Strip. Gisha Director Sari Bashi explains:
    “Instead of considering security concerns, on the one hand, and the rights and needs of civilians living in Gaza, on the other, Israel banned glucose for biscuits and the fuel needed for regular supply of electricity – paralyzing normal life in Gaza and impairing the moral character of the State of Israel. I am sorry to say that major elements of this policy are still in place.” (Gisha: Legal Center for Freedom of Movement, ‘Due to Gisha's Petition: Israel Reveals Documents related to the Gaza Closure Policy’, October 21, 2010; http://www.gisha.org/index.php ?intLanguage=2&intItemId=1904&intSiteSN=113)
    As Saeed Bannoura of the International Middle East Media Center reports, the Israeli government imposed a deliberate policy:

    “in which the dietary needs for the population of Gaza are chillingly calculated, and the amounts of food let in by the Israeli government measured to remain just enough to keep the population alive at a near-starvation level. This documents the statement made by a number of Israeli officials that they are ‘putting the people of Gaza on a diet’.” (Saeed Bannoura, ‘Israeli government documents show deliberate policy to keep Gazans at near-starvation levels’, International Middle East Media Center, November 6, 2010 21:32; http://www.imemc.org/article/59843)

    Bannoura adds:
    “This release of documents also severely undermines Israel's oft-made claim that the siege is ‘for security reasons’, as it documents a deliberate and systematic policy of collective punishment of the entire population of Gaza.”
    When Israel and the United States were reacting to Hamas’s election victory in Gaza in January 2006, long-time Israeli government adviser Dov Weisglass stated:
    “The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger.” (‘Hamas readies for government, Israel prepares sanctions’, Agence France Presse, February 16, 2006)
    The released documents contain actual equations used by the Israeli government to calculate the exact amounts of food, fuel and other necessities needed to do exactly that. (‘Submitted to Gisha in the framework of a Freedom of Information Act Petition, AP 2744/09 Gisha v. Defense Ministry’, Appendices B, C and D;http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ DefenseMinistryDocumentsRevealedFOIAPetition.pdf)

    The policy is all the more disturbing, indeed repellent, given that almost half the people of Gaza are children under the age of eighteen. One might reasonably conclude that Israel has deliberately forced the undernourishment of hundreds of thousands of children in direct violation of international law and the Fourth Geneva Convention.
    Media Response? A Polite Silence

    Our searches of the Nexis newspaper database show that, as far as we could determine, not a single UK newspaper has reported the release of these damning Israeli documents. We widened our searches to include all English-language publications covered worldwide by Nexis. We found just two: one from the Palestine News Network on October 21 and one in Palestine Chronicle on November 6.

    We were so surprised by the uniform silence across the English-language press that we asked US-based media analyst David Peterson to check our findings. He was able to do so, spelling out his search results as follows (email to Media Lens, November 11, 2010):

    Major World Publications: zero

    All News (English): two (the same two that we found, as mentioned above)

    Broadcast Transcripts: zero

    A search of the Factiva database (covering all major English-language newspapers and wire services) found the same results. Peterson commented:
    “No mentions in any of the major English-language newspapers or wire services of the fact that someone had revealed the actual Israeli government policy towards the Gaza Palestinians is to force a ‘deliberate reduction’ in their access to the necessities of everyday survival.”
    It takes a peculiar form of social malaise for this astonishing media silence to be maintained in ostensibly free societies.
    The Fiercely “Independent” BBC

    On November 11, an online BBC article reported on the Gaza blockade but made no mention of the released documents. (Jon Donnison, ‘UN: No change in Gaza despite easing of Israel blockade’ BBC news online, November 11, 2010 Last updated at 00:25; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11731695)

    Reporter Jon Donnison wrote:
    “The UN says there has been ‘no material change” for people in Gaza since Israel announced it was ‘easing’ its economic blockade of the Palestinian territory.”
    Jon Ging, the head of UN operations in Gaza, said few people had noticed any difference:
    “There's been no material change for the people on the ground here in terms of their status, the aid dependency, the absence of any recovery or reconstruction, no economy.”
    Ging continued:
    “The easing, as it was described, has been nothing more than a political easing of the pressure on Israel and Egypt.”
    The BBC gave the final word to Yigal Palmor, a spokesman for the Israeli foreign ministry:
    “Why is the border blockaded? Because the territory has been overtaken by a declared terror movement."
    This assertion that the Gaza blockade is motivated by security concerns went unchallenged.

    World News Today, presented by Zeinab Badawi on BBC4, broadcast a piece by Donnison along similar lines to his article. (BBC World News Today, BBC4, Thursday, November 11, 2010, 7pm;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwxZXfRTdj0)

    We wrote to Jon Donnison and asked whether he was aware that the Israeli human rights group Gisha had obtained Israeli government documents confirming that the collective punishment of Gaza is based on politics, not security. We asked him:
    “Have you reported the release of these documents?

    “Will you be pursuing it in a new article?” (Email, November 11, 2010)
    We emailed again on November 16 but have received no response to date.

    And manufacturing consent through lies.



    '


«13

Comments

  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    I'm somewhat confused here, are you implying the original BBC article is pro-Zionist or simply the fact that no mention of the recently leaked documents was made?

    As for the blockade itself I would have assumed it was basically common knowledge that Israel were attempting to force Hamas out and allow Fatah back in?


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    gizmo wrote: »
    I'm somewhat confused here, are you implying the original BBC article is pro-Zionist or simply the fact that no mention of the recently leaked documents was made?

    They go hand-in-hand.

    Naturally the omission of Isreali state documents confirming that Israel was committiing a war crime makes it pro-Zionist article.
    gizmo wrote: »
    As for the blockade itself I would have assumed it was basically common knowledge that Israel were attempting to force Hamas out and allow Fatah back in?

    Also known as collective punishment a war crime according to the Geneva Conventions.

    Hamas were a creation of Mossad as a counterbalance to Arafat and to prevent a Palestinian state. Israel like the US actively encouraged Islamic radicalisation. Hamas came to power because of forced US democratisation. Now because Gazan's voted the wrong way in an open and free democratic election they (50% of their 1.5 million peoples are children) are intentionally being placed on near-starvation levels through an official Israeli programme.


    Don't you consider this newsworthy?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    I'm confused as to the exact point of this thread. Are Palestinians potentially going hungry and Zionist mainstream media connected in some way?


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    meglome wrote: »
    I'm confused as to the exact point of this thread. Are Palestinians potentially going hungry and Zionist mainstream media connected in some way?

    Is "potentially going hungry" a dressed up way of saying intentionally starving?

    Actually why don't you say it? The Isreali documents prove it -

    "Israel was intentionally placing the entire Gazan population on near starvation levels through their control of the food suppy into Gaza."

    You try it...

    .......................................................................................................


    Of course it is connected if a war crime is being committed by a state against an entire population of innocent and helpless civilians.

    Don't you think this is newsworthy?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    They go hand-in-hand.

    Naturally the omission of Isreali state documents confirming that Israel was committiing a war crime makes it pro-Zionist article.
    So because the article isn't damning enough it's pro-Zionist? Perhaps the reporter wasn't aware of the articles being revealed, I know I wasn't. That being said, I still felt the same level of revulsion at the Israeli stance when reading the article so if it was pro-Zionist then it's doing a pretty ****ty job.
    Also known as collective punishment a war crime according to the Geneva Conventions.
    Couldn't agree more.
    Hamas were a creation of Mossad as a counterbalance to Arafat and to prevent a Palestinian state.
    Source?
    Israel like the US actively encouraged Islamic radicalisation.
    While it's certainly in Israel's best interest to be seen as standing up to Islamic radicals as opposed to moderates, I can't see how it benefits the US at all outside of specific Israel-US relations.
    Hamas came to power because of forced US democratisation.
    Better to give people the option of democracy rather than having rule forced upon them. The fact that Hamas came to power via such means is proof enough of this as it was by the will of the people. That's not to say that I agree with Hamas in the slightest but if nations want the situation to change then it will only come if Israel is forced to relieve restrictions around Gaza so that its populace can see that radicalism is not the answer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Is "potentially going hungry" a dressed up way of saying intentionally starving?

    Actually why don't you say it? The Isreali documents prove it -

    "Israel was intentionally placing the entire Gazan population on near starvation levels through their control of the food suppy into Gaza."

    You try it...
    .......................................................................................................
    Of course it is connected if a war crime is being committed by a state against an entire population of innocent and helpless civilians.

    Don't you think this is newsworthy?

    Look as I've said previously I'm not a supporter of most of Israel's actions. The way the Palestinians are being treated is terrible. What I don't understand is how this brings supposed "Zionist Mainstream Media" into it.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    gizmo wrote: »
    So because the article isn't damning enough it's pro-Zionist?
    I'm a little confused here. Is this the article we are discussing?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11868589
    gizmo wrote: »
    Perhaps the reporter wasn't aware of the articles being revealed, I know I wasn't.

    Come on. You think that these human rights groups don't send out press releases? Media Lens had certainly contacted the BBC. Furthermore the BBC seen the documents as newsworthy before they'd been released and had made mention of the efforts to have them released months before.
    gizmo wrote: »
    That being said, I still felt the same level of revulsion at the Israeli stance when reading the article so if it was pro-Zionist then it's doing a pretty ****ty job. .

    It's irrelevant if you or I think that something is pro or ant anything. The simple fact is that a war crime, clearly laid out in official documents and obtained and released by a human rights group was wilfully ignored.

    As it is unquestionably newsworthy the only reasonable conclusion is that they were omitted for a reason.
    gizmo wrote: »
    Source?

    I jumped the gun by saying created. Encouraged in it's infancy would be more accurate.
    According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)". http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html

    gizmo wrote: »
    While it's certainly in Israel's best interest to be seen as standing up to Islamic radicals as opposed to moderates, I can't see how it benefits the US at all outside of specific Israel-US relations.
    I think you misunderstood my point. I was saying that both Israel and the US have encouraged radical Islam.

    gizmo wrote: »
    Better to give people the option of democracy rather than having rule forced upon them. The fact that Hamas came to power via such means is proof enough of this as it was by the will of the people. That's not to say that I agree with Hamas in the slightest but if nations want the situation to change then it will only come if Israel is forced to relieve restrictions around Gaza so that its populace can see that radicalism is not the answer.

    First of all the blockade has nothing to do with Hamas. It began before Hamas came to power.

    Secondly your assuming Israel actually wants peace, which IMO they do not as it doesn't suit their objectives.

    Hamas were willing to make concessions and compromise on the June 67 borders in a 2 state solution. This is why Operation Castlead - to prevent peace.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    meglome wrote: »
    Look as I've said previously I'm not a supporter of most of Israel's actions. The way the Palestinians are being treated is terrible. What I don't understand is how this brings supposed "Zionist Mainstream Media" into it.

    It's simple.

    War Crime goes unreported = Media complicity in war crime.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    I'm a little confused here. Is this the article we are discussing?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11868589
    Ah, this is the article I read initially and is the one to which I am referring. It makes no reference to the revealed Israeli documents as stated. The follow-up article which you linked to above however does, so again, I don't really see the problem outside an initial poorly researched article. In fact, given that the reporter in question had to have the leaked documents pointed out to him, surely it's a positive thing they were included in the follow-up piece?
    It's irrelevant if you or I think that something is pro or ant anything. The simple fact is that a war crime, clearly laid out in official documents and obtained and released by a human rights group was wilfully ignored.

    As it is unquestionably newsworthy the only reasonable conclusion is that they were omitted for a reason.
    Again I was referring to the original article, one which was subsequently updated when additional information was supplied. If they were initially omitted why would they then be included in the follow-up a little over two weeks later?
    I think you misunderstood my point. I was saying that both Israel and the US have encouraged radical Islam.
    Just so we're on the same page here, are you making a distinction at all between the two states? It seems that it's in Israel's best interests to be seen as opposing a radical Islamic terrorist group in Hamas whereas the US seem to be encouraging it only through their support of Israel. I believe the difference to be quite important in this case.
    First of all the blockade has nothing to do with Hamas. It began before Hamas came to power.
    True however it was significantly tightened post-elections.
    Secondly your assuming Israel actually wants peace, which IMO they do not as it doesn't suit their objectives.
    In the sense that they don't want any more rockets fired into their territory, yes I do think they want peace. In the sense that said peace may lead to discussions which result in Israeli concessions then I'd agree they probably don't want to be in that position.
    Hamas were willing to make concessions and compromise on the June 67 borders in a 2 state solution. This is why Operation Castlead - to prevent peace.
    They still desire a Palestinian state however, something which the Israelis will never agree too, regardless of how many concessions are made. :(


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  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Gizmo you make good points. I'm just to tired to give them the attention they deserve at this moment. But I will.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    It's simple.

    War Crime goes unreported = Media complicity in war crime.

    Conflicts make news for a while. We rarely see constant reporting of any war or conflict. On-going problems like the Israeli Palestinians one are unlikely to even be very regularly reported in most Arab media. Sorry but the idea that not reporting on any subject enough makes you complicit in war crimes is utter bull. And I'm still waiting to see where "Zionist mainstream media" comes into this. Looks like you're doing your usual shoehorning of Zionists into every post.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    meglome wrote: »
    Conflicts make news for a while. We rarely see constant reporting of any war or conflict. On-going problems like the Israeli Palestinians one are unlikely to even be very regularly reported in most Arab media. Sorry but the idea that not reporting on any subject enough makes you complicit in war crimes is utter bull. And I'm still waiting to see where "Zionist mainstream media" comes into this. Looks like you're doing your usual shoehorning of Zionists into every post.

    None of that makes any sense at all.

    Looks like your oblivious to what you are actually saying. Have you no empathy for the 750,000 intentionally near-starved children intentionally imprisoned for the whole òf their lives on a tiny strip of land?

    I asked you before and I am asking you again.

    How is the forced starvation of an entire people under an illegal military occupation not newsworthy
    ?

    Tell me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    None of that makes any sense at all.

    Looks like your oblivious to what you are actually saying. Have you no empathy for the 750,000 intentionally near-starved children intentionally imprisoned for the whole òf their lives on a tiny strip of land?

    I asked you before and I am asking you again.

    How is the forced starvation of an entire people under an illegal military occupation not newsworthy
    ?

    Tell me.

    Sigh... Lot's of things are newsworthy and I never said otherwise. It goes without saying that large numbers of people starving is newsworthy. The sad fact though is even the Ethiopian famine was only newsworthy for a while.
    It appears the Israelis have had/have a policy to keep supplies to a minimum in Gaza which is totally wrong. I'm wondering how many people in Gaza are actually starving?

    Course you sidestepped the question of how Zionist mainstream Media comes into this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭uprising2


    meglome wrote: »
    Conflicts make news for a while. We rarely see constant reporting of any war or conflict. On-going problems like the Israeli Palestinians one are unlikely to even be very regularly reported in most Arab media. Sorry but the idea that not reporting on any subject enough makes you complicit in war crimes is utter bull. And I'm still waiting to see where "Zionist mainstream media" comes into this. Looks like you're doing your usual shoehorning of Zionists into every post.

    What?

    Palestine/Israel isn't reported on regularly, so when one side has a policy to starve the entire penned in population on the other side, and it becomes "known" because one side is forced to release papers stating as much, and it isn't news worthy because Israeli's have been slaughtering them for ages and people just aren't interested anymore?

    Of course it's news worthy, its a damning disgrace and largely ignored piece of modern history, 1,500,000 people deliberately starved and it's "Official", yet hardly a peep in the media?, not seem strange to you?.

    Your assumption that:
    On-going problems like the Israeli Palestinians one are unlikely to even be very regularly reported in most Arab media. Sorry but the idea that not reporting on any subject enough makes you complicit in war crimes is utter bull.
    .........is total bollox, google HAMAS , plenty of daily news, Israel , the same, Gaza put on a diet , even though it is official, it's mysteriously excluded from any mainstream mention.
    If it were any other state or nation it would be big news, but it's Israel and it's not, thats complicit, and who else but zionists would want this kept hush,hush, and why is the entire mainstream media on the entire planet so quiet about this?.



    Ho


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    uprising2 wrote: »
    What?

    Palestine/Israel isn't reported on regularly, so when one side has a policy to starve the entire penned in population on the other side, and it becomes "known" because one side is forced to release papers stating as much, and it isn't news worthy because Israeli's have been slaughtering them for ages and people just aren't interested anymore?

    Of course it's news worthy, its a damning disgrace and largely ignored piece of modern history, 1,500,000 people deliberately starved and it's "Official", yet hardly a peep in the media?, not seem strange to you?.

    All I wanted to establish was how "Zionist Mainstream media" came into this. I don't set what's newsworthy but whether you like it or not no matter how bad the story is it's only newsworthy for a while. But hey let's get all pissed off at me and pretend that what's newsworthy isn't the same as it always was. There are an awful lot of things wrong with the world and this Israeli policy is totally wrong. However how many people are actually starving? Because sadly that what it will probably boil down to.
    uprising2 wrote: »
    Your assumption that:

    .........is total bollox, google HAMAS , plenty of daily news, Israel , the same, Gaza put on a diet , even though it is official, it's mysteriously excluded from any mainstream mention.
    If it were any other state or nation it would be big news, but it's Israel and it's not, thats complicit, and who else but zionists would want this kept hush,hush, and why is the entire mainstream media on the entire planet so quiet about this?.

    Some stories make the news some don't. The world is full or pain and misery. There's only so much of it people want in their living rooms every day. You can say it's the "Zionists" but it isn't, it's human nature.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    meglome wrote: »
    Sigh... Lot's of things are newsworthy and I never said otherwise. It goes without saying that large numbers of people starving is newsworthy. ?

    The difference between "people starving" and people being starved intentionally is not subtle.

    Why can't you see this?
    meglome wrote: »
    The sad fact though is even the Ethiopian famine was only newsworthy for a while. ?

    There is a huge difference between a "famine" (even one caused by disaster capitalism and imperialism) i.e. scarcity of food and intentionally witholding food to an entire people as a means of collective punishment. Especially when your military has totally and purposefully destroyed any other means of food production.

    Why can't you see this?

    meglome wrote: »
    It appears the Israelis have had/have a policy to keep supplies to a minimum in Gaza which is totally wrong. I'm wondering how many people in Gaza are actually starving?

    1,4 million (minus Hamas and a select few who can afford to buy food on the black market smuggled through the tunnels from Egypt.)

    So now you wonder eh ?...

    It wasn't so long ago you were propogating the IDF propoganda film masquearading as journalism broadcast by the BBC as the definitive account of what happened when Israeli elite commados hijacked an aid ship in international waters executing 9 unarmed civilians and wounding 50 odd as the definitive account of what happened that night.

    To paraphrase the BBC's Jane Corbin "It is not so much a humanitarian crisis in Gaza". These documents prove she was talking absolute bull****.

    Pity you didn't wonder then.
    meglome wrote: »
    Course you sidestepped the question of how Zionist mainstream Media comes into this?

    I haven't sidestepped anything. It should absolutely clear to you. Official documents prove Israel was committing a war crime. This war crime is avoided by the press. This is a coverup. What need would a neutral press to cover anything up?

    Compare this to the amount of press that Helen Thomas got for her arguably anti-semitic remarks. Or the ´"leak" that some diplomat in Turkmenistan or somewhere remarked that a minor rule had been rude at a meeting.

    Tell me which is more important.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    meglome wrote: »
    You can say it's the "Zionists" but it isn't, it's human nature.

    ffs you sound like Michael Jackson.

    It's human nature to intentionally near-starve an entire population. Bollox it is.

    It is not "human nature" it is the inhumane and racist nature of Israeli policy towards Palestine.

    It was the policy of the far-right Netanyahu and the extreme right Lieberman's coalition who put this policy in place.

    You never stop blaming Irish people for the economic mess Ireland is in for voting Fianna Fail yet you won't make the connection between Israeli racists being elected and those who put them in power.

    Completely hypocritical.

    Out of interest why do you have "Zionists" in inverted commas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    The difference between "people starving" and people being starved intentionally is not subtle.

    Why can't you see this?

    From a news point of few the difference may be irrelevant. I have no idea as I don't decide what is newsworthy and what isn't.
    There is a huge difference between a "famine" (even one caused by disaster capitalism and imperialism) i.e. scarcity of food and intentionally witholding food to an entire people as a means of collective punishment. Especially when your military has totally and purposefully destroyed any other means of food production.

    Why can't you see this?

    Personally I have no issue differentiating. But we're taking about what's newsworthy and what isn't on any given given day.
    1,4 million (minus Hamas and a select few who can afford to buy food on the black market smuggled through the tunnels from Egypt.)

    So now you wonder eh ?...

    Okay so where are the links to the information that 1.4 million people are actually starving?
    It wasn't so long ago you were propogating the IDF propoganda film masquearading as journalism broadcast by the BBC as the definitive account of what happened when Israeli elite commados hijacked an aid ship in international waters executing 9 unarmed civilians and wounding 50 odd as the definitive account of what happened that night.

    To paraphrase the BBC's Jane Corbin "It is not so much a humanitarian crisis in Gaza". These documents prove she was talking absolute bull****.

    Pity you didn't wonder then.

    Is that the BBC documentary I asked you about five times to explain how exactly it was biased. Let me spell this out to you. Talking to all sides and getting the opinions of all sides isn't biased. It's the total opposite of biased. But when you are predisposed to believe one side over another I can see how it might appear biased. I may not like what the Israelis often do but I don't assume they are always lying or always wrong.
    I haven't sidestepped anything. It should absolutely clear to you. Official documents prove Israel was committing a war crime. This war crime is avoided by the press. This is a coverup. What need would a neutral press to cover anything up?

    Of course you've sidestepped, you're saying that 'Zionists' are responsible for keeping the story down but you have no proof of that whatsoever. The Israeli policy has been to put the squeeze on the Gaza strip for some years. It may not have been news they were officially doing it with food too but it's certainly not news it's happening. So rather than 'Zionists' being involved I'm saying that unless people are actually dying from starvation the overall story has been heard many times in the media. So it's media apathy rather than conspiracy.
    Compare this to the amount of press that Helen Thomas got for her arguably anti-semitic remarks. Or the ´"leak" that some diplomat in Turkmenistan or somewhere remarked that a minor rule had been rude at a meeting.

    Okay but lot's of things get reported each and very day. These things will vary from country to country, region to region. How is that caused by 'Zionists' exactly?
    ffs you sound like Michael Jackson.

    It's human nature to intentionally near-starve an entire population. Bollox it is.

    It is not "human nature" it is the inhumane and racist nature of Israeli policy towards Palestine.

    I never even suggested it was. I said it was human nature not to want to hear about it every day. Very different thing.
    It was the policy of the far-right Netanyahu and the extreme right Lieberman's coalition who put this policy in place.

    You never stop blaming Irish people for the economic mess Ireland is in for voting Fianna Fail yet you won't make the connection between Israeli racists being elected and those who put them in power.

    Completely hypocritical.

    I believe that people should take personal responsibility. So Israelis should take some personal responsibility for their governments actions. Though like here in Ireland that doesn't mean they all voted for that government or directly supported its' actions.
    Out of interest why do you have "Zionists" in inverted commas.

    Because you use the word Zionist like parents used the bogeyman with their children. Some sort of monstrous imaginary figure that should be feared.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    meglome wrote: »
    Because you use the word Zionist like parents used the bogeyman with their children. Some sort of monstrous imaginary figure that should be feared.
    QFT. Almost like how some people think the "Zionist" controlled media uses the word "Terrorist".


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  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    meglome wrote: »
    From a news point of few the difference may be irrelevant.

    Such an empty, vacuous statement.

    From a "news point of view" (ignoring the fact that no such thing exists) it shouldn't make any difference if a people starved or were intentionally starved by a brutal occupier in your opinion.

    My my...

    meglome wrote: »
    I have no idea as I don't decide what is newsworthy and what isn't.

    Translation: You don't know what is important in the world because you don't own a media outlet or are a media editor or otherwise have influence within the media industry.

    WTF?...

    You have a functioning brain capable of independent thought don't you!!
    (for clarity I am suggesting you do here)
    meglome wrote: »
    Personally I have no issue differentiating. But we're taking about what's newsworthy and what isn't on any given given day.

    On the contrary Meglome. It was you who brought famine into the discussion to compare it with an official state policy. Famine, awful as it is has nothing at all to do with this.
    meglome wrote: »
    Okay so where are the links to the information that 1.4 million people are actually starving?
    Post 1 - Gisha. You don't need links after that just a base knowledge and common sense.

    I'll provide you with the base knowledge; the common sense is up to you.

    During Operation Castlead 2008/2009 Israel systemathically destroyed Gaza's means of food production (see Goldstone Report). Destroying farmland, farm animals, mills etc. They even left calling cards. This is 60 metres in diameter.

    83055.jpg

    Gaza is subjected to an illegal siege, no imports come in. Gaza is almost wholly reliant on what passes through the Israeli blockade. The population of Gaza is 1.4 million. That is where the 1.4 million came from.
    meglome wrote: »
    Is that the BBC documentary I asked you about five times to explain how exactly it was biased. Let me spell this out to you. Talking to all sides and getting the opinions of all sides isn't biased. It's the total opposite of biased. But when you are predisposed to believe one side over another I can see how it might appear biased. I may not like what the Israelis often do but I don't assume they are always lying or always wrong.

    ffs...here we go again.

    Did I or did I not post in that very same thread the UN report into the massacre that completely contradicts and discredits the BBC "documentary"?

    I assume you never took the ten minutes to read it then? If not the only rational explanation is denial.

    What more could you possibly ask for to prove it was biased?
    meglome wrote: »
    Of course you've sidestepped, you're saying that 'Zionists' are responsible for keeping the story down but you have no proof of that whatsoever.

    What proof exactly do you need?

    Zionist war crimes were covered up in the press.

    Who do you think is responsible for covering them up? ... Al Qaeda? The IRA? Pablo Escobar?
    meglome wrote: »
    This The Israeli policy has been to put the squeeze on the Gaza strip for some years.

    And yet more apologetic language.

    You claim to be neutral on this right? confused.gif

    Try 40 years.

    meglome wrote: »
    AIt may not have been news they were officially doing it with food too but it's certainly not news it's happening.
    And now you've reverted back to saying absolutely nothing.
    meglome wrote: »
    So rather than 'Zionists' being involved I'm saying that unless people are actually dying from starvation the overall story has been heard many times in the media. So it's media apathy rather than conspiracy.

    No it has not.

    If you are going to compare it to something this is closest I can think of.
    Denial of Holodomor is the assertion that the 1932-1933 Holodomor in Soviet Ukraine did not occur.[95][96][97][98] This denial and suppression was made in official Soviet propaganda and was supported by some Western journalists and intellectuals.[96][97][99][100][101]
    ...The Soviet party line was echoed at the time of the famine by some prominent Western journalists, including Walter Duranty and Louis Fischer. The denial of the famine was a highly successful and well orchestrated disinformation campaign by the Soviet government.

    Again your conflating (purposely or otherwise) famine, which is a newsworthy event in itself with a policy of forced food reduction.

    You and I could be locked up for doing such a thing to a ****ing dog yet in your view the media en masse automatically should be apathethic to the forced reduction of food to a people of 1.5 million, half of those being children.
    meglome wrote: »
    Okay but lot's of things get reported each and very day. These things will vary from country to country, region to region. How is that caused by 'Zionists' exactly?

    Yes lot's of things do get reported every day, that's why it is called news. Yet somehow in the natural order of things documents obtained proving a war crime was committed against 1.5 million people collectively is not one of these "lots of things".

    Unbelievable statement.

    I urge you to watch this documentary based on Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent. It'll be educational and worthwhile, I promise you.
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5631882395226827730#
    meglome wrote: »
    I never even suggested it was. I said it was human nature not to want to hear about it every day. Very different thing.

    My apologies. I misunderstood you.

    I still disagree however. I for one don't want to be wrapped in a bubble reading about X Factor when 1 and half million people, my fellow brothers and sisters in this world are being intentionally near-starved by an officially sanctioned state policy of collective punishment.


    meglome wrote: »
    I believe that people should take personal responsibility. So Israelis should take some personal responsibility for their governments actions. Though like here in Ireland that doesn't mean they all voted for that government or directly supported its' actions.

    This is a side issue but I'll give you this example from Ethan Bronner in the NY Times.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/world/africa/13iht-13israel.19301993.html
    But that is still distinctly a minority view. Polls have shown nearly 90 percent support for the war thus far, and street interviews confirm that Israelis not only favor it but do so quite strongly.

    The "war" is Operation Castlead with it's litany of war crimes. Again see the Goldstone Report for details of the atrocities.

    Incidentally. If you do take the time to read that article you will see it is replete with Zionist propoganda.

    Hardly surprising since his son is a member of the IDF. Neutrality eh?

    meglome wrote: »
    Because you use the word Zionist like parents used the bogeyman with their children. Some sort of monstrous imaginary figure that should be feared.

    You do realise it is anti-semitic to hold the view that all Jews are Zionists?

    I use the word in it's proper context. You due what I can only conclude is your own ignorance on the subject don't realise this. Would it bother you so much if I used for example "Social Democrat"?

    This is how ludicrous your thinking on this is.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    King Mob wrote: »
    QFT. Almost like how some people think the "Zionist" controlled media uses the word "Terrorist".

    You along with Meglome were one of the people who asked for evidence of a pro-Zionist media.

    I offer irrefutable evidence and you wilfully ignore it opting instead to focus on me.

    How very telling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Such an empty, vacuous statement.

    From a "news point of view" (ignoring the fact that no such thing exists) it shouldn't make any difference if a people starved or were intentionally starved by a brutal occupier in your opinion.

    My my...

    Translation: You don't know what is important in the world because you don't own a media outlet or are a media editor or otherwise have influence within the media industry.

    WTF?...

    You have a functioning brain capable of independent thought don't you!!
    (for clarity I am suggesting you do here)


    On the contrary Meglome. It was you who brought famine into the discussion to compare it with an official state policy. Famine, awful as it is has nothing at all to do with this.

    I don't know if you're wilfully misrepresenting what I'm saying or it's accidental. Our conversation isn't about what's right and what's wrong. I think most decent people will agree that what the Israelis are doing with the Gaza strip is wrong. However it's going on for a long time so for the most part is has lost it's newsworthiness. This is the reality of the media all over the world.
    Post 1 - Gisha. You don't need links after that just a base knowledge and common sense.

    I'll provide you with the base knowledge; the common sense is up to you.

    During Operation Castlead 2008/2009 Israel systemathically destroyed Gaza's means of food production (see Goldstone Report). Destroying farmland, farm animals, mills etc. They even left calling cards. This is 60 metres in diameter.

    Gaza is subjected to an illegal siege, no imports come in. Gaza is almost wholly reliant on what passes through the Israeli blockade. The population of Gaza is 1.4 million. That is where the 1.4 million came from.

    Again no one here is suggesting Israeli actions are anything but reprehensible about Gaza. But the sad fact is this story is probably only newsworthy if a lot of people are really starving. I'm still not seeing proof of that.
    Did I or did I not post in that very same thread the UN report into the massacre that completely contradicts and discredits the BBC "documentary"?

    I assume you never took the ten minutes to read it then? If not the only rational explanation is denial.

    What more could you possibly ask for to prove it was biased?

    You're still missing the point completely. I know what the UN report said. The BBC documentary spoke to all those involved. All of those people are entitled to give their viewpoint. This is why the documentary clearly isn't biased, it speaks to all sides. You don't have to like or believe what everyone said but in an unbiased documentary they are entitled to say it. You want some sort of censorship which gags people you don't agree with or like.
    Zionist war crimes were covered up in the press.

    Who do you think is responsible for covering them up? ... Al Qaeda? The IRA? Pablo Escobar?

    As I keep saying I don't think anyone is covering this up. I think it's on-going for so long it's not that newsworthy. Like it or not it's just the way it is.
    You and I could be locked up for doing such a thing to a ****ing dog yet in your view the media en masse automatically should be apathethic to the forced reduction of food to a people of 1.5 million, half of those being children.

    Yes lot's of things do get reported every day, that's why it is called news. Yet somehow in the natural order of things documents obtained proving a war crime was committed against 1.5 million people collectively is not one of these "lots of things".

    I completely disagree with the policy. But this getting into the news would assume that right now those 1.5 million people are actually starving. It might be sad but it's also true. Are 1.5 million people in Gaza starving right now?
    I still disagree however. I for one don't want to be wrapped in a bubble reading about X Factor when 1 and half million people, my fellow brothers and sisters in this world are being intentionally near-starved by an officially sanctioned state policy of collective punishment..

    You going to tell me you're not sick of all this doom and gloom and recession talk in the media? Imagine this was all about another country and not about Ireland. You really think that any of us would really want this on all the time?
    This is a side issue but I'll give you this example from Ethan Bronner in the NY Times.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/world/africa/13iht-13israel.19301993.html

    The problem here is both sides have grown to hate each other. Both sides has done some terrible things. I wonder given their history would the Palestinians have been so much better given the opportunity. Hopefully they would but who knows. There are many people in this country who still hate the English for things that happened literally hundreds of years ago. You a big fan of the English BB?
    You do realise it is anti-semitic to hold the view that all Jews are Zionists?

    I use the word in it's proper context. You due what I can only conclude is your own ignorance on the subject don't realise this. Would it bother you so much if I used for example "Social Democrat"?

    This is how ludicrous your thinking on this is.

    I'm not saying that people out there don't consider themselves Zionists. I suppose it's like the Freemasons, lot's of people believe them to be monsters. While I'm inclined to believe they are like most groups, in that they will have for the most part an average set of individuals. Some Freemasons will be extreme but most will be middle of the road. You use the word Zionist like these people are eating babies. Now I'm not a fan of what the average Zionist stands for, nor any groups which will gloss over bad behaviour. But I don't assume just because they are biased towards their religious/cultural home that they are also capable of almost any horrible crime people can think of.
    You along with Meglome were one of the people who asked for evidence of a pro-Zionist media.

    I offer irrefutable evidence and you wilfully ignore it opting instead to focus on me.

    How very telling.

    What evidence did you show for a pro-Zionist media?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    Both sides are using the media for their own palestinians have the lead in bleeding heart propaganda for white middle class liberals, due to the "Western Media" using biased reporters.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys

    The Israeli's have wikileaks!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭eamo12


    I didn't want to post in the other thread as somethings are better left to die. The point of this thread is that some people for reasons best know to themselves don't seem to realise that there is a pro-Zionist agenda in the mainstream media - in particular in the US. With that in mind I have kept an eye out for good examples of Zionist propoganda/hasbara. Here are two:

    Manufacturing consent through omission.


    november 17, 2010
    “PUT THE PALESTINIANS ON A DIET” - MEDIA BURY DOCUMENTS REVEALING ISRAEL’S DELIBERATE POLICY OF NEAR-STARVATION FOR GAZA




    And manufacturing consent through lies.


    Interesting. The premise of your argument was about 'zionist propaganda', then you have the neck to print an an article which is clearly anti-Israeli propaganda. Nice try.

    Also, if you think there is a pro-zionist agenda out there, then clearly you haven't been watching the BBC, RTE, Channel 4, ITV, CNN, MSNBC, Al Jezeera, Press TV, Irish times, Irish examiner, Guardian, Independent, Mail, Mirror, New york times, washington post, Huffington post etc. ad infinitum.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    Hezbollah ordering ambulances to drive up and down the road with sirens on while western reporters take pictures.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXy6q4cH4pw&feature=related

    You've really been had this time Bomber if you seriously think 1. The media is pro zionist and 2. That Hamas and Hezbollah aren't playing the propaganda game and the white middle classes lapping it up.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    eamo12 wrote: »
    Interesting. The premise of your argument was about 'zionist propaganda', then you have the neck to print an an article which is clearly anti-Israeli propaganda. Nice try. .

    What are you talking about?

    Please show me how it is "anti-Israeli propoganda".

    It's from a media monitoring group highlighting the fact that Israel has officially committed a war crime against the Gazans and there has been a virtual silence from the established media.
    eamo12 wrote: »
    Also, if you think there is a pro-zionist agenda out there, then clearly you haven't been watching the BBC, RTE, Channel 4, ITV, CNN, MSNBC, Al Jezeera, Press TV, Irish times, Irish examiner, Guardian, Independent, Mail, Mirror, New york times, washington post, Huffington post etc. ad infinitum.

    Naturally you can now link sources from all the above mentioned media outlets regarding the documents obtained by human rights org Gisha which confirms official Israeli policy of collective punishment.

    Oh wait. You can't.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    studiorat wrote: »
    Hezbollah ordering ambulances to drive up and down the road with sirens on while western reporters take pictures.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXy6q4cH4pw&feature=related

    You've really been had this time Bomber if you seriously think 1. The media is pro zionist and 2. That Hamas and Hezbollah aren't playing the propaganda game and the white middle classes lapping it up.

    If you wan't to discuss Hamas or other Arabs/Muslims as part of a conspiracy. Please start a different thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    If you wan't to discuss Hamas or other Arabs/Muslims as part of a conspiracy. Please start a different thread.

    I thought the discussion was about the Media?

    The palestinians have control of the middle class liberal media. My links support this.

    You're trying to have a one sided discussion which is laughable since you are completely ignoring the HUGE propaganda and media manipulation which the palestinians are undertaking. Once again proving to all that your posts are apart from foolish, biased and one sided.

    http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/new/Special_Report_The_Hamas_Propaganda_War.asp


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    eamo12 wrote: »
    Interesting. The premise of your argument was about 'zionist propaganda', then you have the neck to print an an article which is clearly anti-Israeli propaganda. Nice try.

    Also, if you think there is a pro-zionist agenda out there, then clearly you haven't been watching the BBC, RTE, Channel 4, ITV, CNN, MSNBC, Al Jezeera, Press TV, Irish times, Irish examiner, Guardian, Independent, Mail, Mirror, New york times, washington post, Huffington post etc. ad infinitum.

    Naturally you can now link sources from all the above mentioned media outlets regarding the documents obtained by human rights org Gisha which confirms official Israeli policy of collective punishment.

    Oh wait. You can't.

    Hilarious..
    This is putting words in other peoples mouths again. Desperate or what?

    The poster never even mentioned Gisha, or their reports from last May. The poster said that the news outlets don't have a pro-zionist agenda, rather they have a pro-palestinian agenda.


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