When will the building industry will pick up?

FF and proud

I used to be a builder myself so this is an issue close to heart. A lot of young lads around the area lost their jobs in building when the recession came along and their still out of work. A lot of them economists were saying the building industry would collapse but do you think it will get better soon. Because its terrible stuff when the young men around have no jobs at all and no money coming into the local community.

What will it take to get the building industry up and running again, and all the jobs and money it will create.

mikemac

The days of teenagers quitting school and pulling over 500 euro a week (often cash in hand) just by laboring are long gone

But the days of tradesmen letting you down, not retuning calls and then moaning times are hard are here to stay it seems
I've been let down twice this week by a carpenter. He must have more work then he can handle.

sellerbarry

Well, If you keep voting for the crowd in your signature, don't hold your breath.

cml387

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're not trolling.

The history of Ireland shows one thing,and it is that dependence on the building industry for creating jobs is a dead end.

(And my father RIP was in the building trade and was forced to emigrate in the 1950's because of one in a long line of downturns).

The future in Ireland is to make use of our natural resources, the main one being agriculture.In the past it was only primary agriculture,exporting raw materials.We now have a sophisticated agri-food business.Europe still need to eat.Concentrate on that

No way our agriculture can compete with eastern europe.. Our only hope is technology/pharma and our education system isn't helping that one right now.

amacachi

feelingstressed wrote: »

The days of teenagers quitting school and pulling over 500 euro a week (often cash in hand) just by laboring are long gone

It was more than that here, God knows what it was in Dublin.


To the OP, it'll be a long way away since there's a few hundred thousand empty houses around. The supposed boom was caused by a false demand, so unless it's decided to demolish a few hundred thousand units there's going to be a lot of people on the dole for a long time until they decide to skill themselves in another direction.

MagicSean

If the government invest properly in capital projects it might pick up a little but I think the domestic market is gone for a good while.

TeddyTedson

cml387 wrote: »

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're not trolling.

The history of Ireland shows one thing,and it is that dependence on the building industry for creating jobs is a dead end.

(And my father RIP was in the building trade and was forced to emigrate in the 1950's because of one in a long line of downturns).

The future in Ireland is to make use of our natural resources, the main one being agriculture.In the past it was only primary agriculture,exporting raw materials.We now have a sophisticated agri-food business.Europe still need to eat.Concentrate on that

Couldn't agree more!
What is trolling?

The construction industry was blown up ridiculously, and will never be back the way it was.

amacachi

cml387 wrote: »

The future in Ireland is to make use of our natural resources, the main one being agriculture.In the past it was only primary agriculture,exporting raw materials.We now have a sophisticated agri-food business.Europe still need to eat.Concentrate on that

Our agriculture exports are too dear, we should be covering the country in wind turbines and exporting energy to Britain.

mikemac

We had a sugar industry.
Factories in Mallow, Carlow, Thurles and I think Tuam as well.
Huge employment.

It was sold off and destroyed, thanks for nothing EU! We can get our sugar from Poland now

Bjorn Bored.

It wont ever pick up simply because it was an utter falsehood and a scam by the party you voted for which has led to the collapse of our economy.

TeddyTedson

Pull out of the EU and reclaim our fishing industry. The EU raped us for around 180billion on that one!

Tefral

5 years min and it wont go back to the level it was. Im a QS and with so much uncertainty in the market there is no-one gonna be building anything

galah

feelingstressed wrote: »

But the days of tradesmen letting you down, not retuning calls and then moaning times are hard are here to stay it seems
I've been let down twice this week by a carpenter. He must have more work then he can handle.

same sentiment here - wanted the outside of the house painted, rang a painting company, they agreed to come out to quote us (roughly a grand's worth of work we reckoned), I took the day off work to be home - they never showed up. Never cancelled, didnt answer their phone.

We then decided to post the job on one of the jobsites for tradesmen - not a single reply.

So really, it can't be that bad out there.

cml387

Deleted User wrote: »

No way our agriculture can compete with eastern europe.. Our only hope is technology/pharma and our education system isn't helping that one right now.

I used to think that,but god knows we need something now that's indigenous and takes advantage of what we can do ourselves.
We haven't really developed our own High Tech industries (Elan apart) and depending on FDI is a big gamble.

RonMexico

You were warned by a mod not to start another thread in After Hours for a month.

Saila

obvious troll is obvious...












again, but still not obvious enough, he's still around :rolleyes:

Bendihorse

Trades men will be fine - carpenters, plumbers and electricians. They are going to be in big demand in the coming years to patch up all those houses that were fired up during the boom.

Bricklayers, plasterers & general labourers not so much. These lads you speak of need to stop waiting for things to improve and get out and retrain.

mikemac

Kerry Group started as a co-op and is now a corporation traded on the LSE (London Stock Exchange)

Glenisk was a small family business in Offaly making organic dairy products. Now on every supermarket shelf in Ireland and the giant that is Danone has invested in them

Elan is a worldwide name in drugs, huge facility outside Athlone

We have success stories in Ireland, need more

Building houses and selling them to each other isn't going to solve anything

Tonyandthewhale

feelingstressed wrote: »

We had a sugar industry.
Factories in Mallow, Carlow, Thurles and I think Tuam as well.
Huge employment.

It was sold off and destroyed, thanks for nothing EU! We can get our sugar from Poland now

Do you really think the unprofitable and government subsidised Iish sugar-beat industry was of more use to the Irish economy than the EU, structural funds, CAP, the free movement of funds and labour, free access to the largest single market in the world, the euro?
Oh yeah, I'd gladly throw that all away along with the last 40 years of development in this country if it meant I could work in a sugar factory.

mikemac

Did I post pull out of the EU or throw away all the benefits?

That wasn't me, that was another poster wanting to pull out over the fishing industry on page 1

It was something that could have been negoitated and it was given up without a fight

TeddyTedson

Saila wrote: »

obvious troll is obvious...

I don't see what the problem is, the OP just asked a question
What is a troll and what is trolling???

Sea Sharp

I think the naughties were a once off that'll never happen again.
It'll be another few years before the floor is reached in the property market and another few years after that before employment in construction picks up. I'm thinking 5 to 10 years before we see things improving.
To be honest, I think FAS should cut all the apprentices that they haven't cut already. There's no need for them for the foreseeable future.

sollar

amacachi wrote: »

To the OP, it'll be a long way away since there's a few hundred thousand empty houses around. The supposed boom was caused by a false demand, so unless it's decided to demolish a few hundred thousand units there's going to be a lot of people on the dole for a long time until they decide to skill themselves in another direction.

Of these 300,000 empty houses alot of them are 2 or 3 years lying empty, in a year or 2 with the banks still struggling and not lending, how many of those 300K houses will anyone actually want.

In response to the OP building will return to normal levels eventually but prob will never nor should ever return to the 2004, 2005,2006 levels. But it can't always stay this low either.

When it does pick up people will probably want new energy efficient houses or currently lived in second hand houses. I can't see people wanting even half these 300,000 houses, many of which are crammed into estates in the middle of nowhere.

Sea Sharp

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I don't see what the problem is, the OP just asked a question
What is a troll and what is trolling???

A troll is somebody who intentionally presents themselves as stupid or controversial just to entertain themselves on other people's reactions.

cml387

Sea Sharp wrote: »

A troll is somebody who intentionally presents themselves as stupid or controversial just to entertain themselves on other people's reactions.

...and who picks a deliberately provocative username to boot.

TeddyTedson

With all the empty houses and diminishing population the new government should implement a scheme similar to the one Australia had, where they were trying to bring 150,000 people into country each year for the next 20 years, moving toward becoming a more sovereign state.

Outkast_IRE

Sea Sharp wrote: »

I think the naughties were a once off that'll never happen again.
It'll be another few years before the floor is reached in the property market and another few years after that before employment in construction picks up. I'm thinking 5 to 10 years before we see things improving.
To be honest, I think FAS should cut all the apprentices that they haven't cut already. There's no need for them for the foreseeable future.

I disagree this problem will sort itself out in the next 18 months as the numbers of apprentices starting a trade has decreased dramtically and it will just take a year or two to finish off those who have started the trade.

However there are major issues with the system and as someone who is finished their apprenticeship in the next 2 months i can tell you
1. When on their training block in the ITs or FAS people on the social welfare go back onto their trade rate for eg someone in my class who hadnt worked in two years properly went from dole money to €530 euros a week for attending training thats madness when they arent contributing . And the way things are at the moment half the class was on social so most of them more than doubled their money coming training!!!

Run_to_da_hills

Anyone that I know in the building trade I would strongly recommend them to take the boat or diversify into something else completely different like getting involved in thermal insulation or fitting solar panels etc..

I cannot foresee the building trade taking any turn for the better for a long long time. We have almost 1/4 of a million vacant properties in Ireland and this will increase as more and more people are forced to hand over their keys.

Also the only jobs I could foresee in the future apart from repairs and insurance claims would be demolishing those hundreds of ghost estates and unfinished white elephant projects about the country. It's a pity that I have to build such a gloomy picture of the building trade in this country but this is reality.

The only good thing about all this is that that all the cowboys that have spent the last twelve years fleecing people will be the worst hit while those that were good and competent will always scrape by with repair and insurance jobs from loyal customers particularly in smaller towns.

Outkast_IRE

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Anyone that I know in the building trade I would strongly recommend them to take the boat or diversify into something else completely different like getting involved in thermal insulation or fitting solar panels etc..

I cannot foresee the building trade taking any turn for the better for a long long time. We have almost 1/2 of a million vacant properties in Ireland and this will increase as more and more people are forced to hand over their keys.

Also only jobs I could foresee in the future apart from repairs and insurance claims would be demolishing those hundreds of ghost estates and unfinished white elephant projects about the country. It's a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_property_bubblepity that I have to build such a gloomy picture of the building trade in this country but this is reality.

The only good thing about all this is that that all the cowboys that have spent the last twelve years fleecing people will be the worst hit while those that were good and competent will always scrape by with repair and insurance jobs from loyal customers particularly in smaller towns.

spot on i recently did the solar panel course in a it got the installers cert and a fetac cert , im nearly qualified plumber, heading back to college next year for building services engineering if i wasnt goin back to college i would be out of the country asap.
And your dead right iv had work the whole way through my trade , i got out of industrial/commercial two years ago into domestic, and really busy in the domestic cause my employer never started doing housing estates he only did private work for people to a good standard.

Idbatterim

I reckon the government could increase capital expenditure IF labor rates were dropped drastically. I.e go ahead with alot of projects that have been shelved, it would be a win, win.

COYW

Deleted User wrote: »

No way our agriculture can compete with eastern europe.. Our only hope is technology/pharma and our education system isn't helping that one right now.

I totally agree. The whole tech sector is the only way forward for the country but I fear that we dont have the knowledge to support that type of economy. Serious alterations would be needed to the educational system. The sciences and mathematics in particular are extremely weak subjects at secondry level for most students.

If I worked in the building trade, I would be seriously considering a move abroad.

TeddyTedson

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I disagree this problem will sort itself out in the next 18 months as the numbers of apprentices starting a trade has decreased dramtically and it will just take a year or two to finish off those who have started the trade.

However there are major issues with the system and as someone who is finished their apprenticeship in the next 2 months i can tell you
1. When on their training block in the ITs or FAS people on the social welfare go back onto their trade rate for eg someone in my class who hadnt worked in two years properly went from dole money to €530 euros a week for attending training thats madness when they arent contributing . And the way things are at the moment half the class was on social so most of them more than doubled their money coming training!!!

When they're in the IT's or Fas they're not paying any prsi so probably wont be able to get back on Jobseekers benefit as they won't have enough credits.

ejmaztec

I think there's still money to be made in the construction industry, mainly through bricking up FF supporters in their houses.

Outkast_IRE

TeddyTedson wrote: »

When they're in the IT's or Fas they're not paying any prsi so probably wont be able to get back on Jobseekers benefit as they won't have enough credits.

they get straight back onto whatever benefits they had before going in they sign off on training all they have to do is drop back in next week and resume it . And trades may differ in the payment of prsi or somethin iv gotten certs off fas to say my prsi is paid for the training period by them

Mrmoe

The government could and should invest more in our public transport infrastructure. Other large construction projects such as water meter installation, high speed broadband, water infrastructure and renewable energy sources, if funded properly, would provide a boost to the people working in construction. The government does not even have to fund these projects directly, just incentivise it enough to people will be encouraged to start projects.

Run_to_da_hills

Unfortunately this government has now gambled / tied up the pension fund. This reserve would have been seen as "rainy day money" that could have been used in short term stimulation projects to try and kick start the economy.. It has nothing left now thanks to T&C of the bailout and if we default on this you can say good bye to the whole lot.

TeddyTedson

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

they get straight back onto whatever benefits they had before going in they sign off on training all they have to do is drop back in next week and resume it . And trades may differ in the payment of prsi or somethin iv gotten certs off fas to say my prsi is paid for the training period by them

I remember doing phase 2 and our instructor telling us that it was a training allowance and that when we returned to work we probably wouldnt be earing enough from our employer to pay any income tax for the year.

Son Of A Vidic

It will eventually pick up, but to nowhere near the inflated levels of the 'boom' years. Sure they were just building for the sake of it back then.

smellslikeshoes

It all depends on what you consider picking up, it might get slightly better than it is now but not much better. The fact is we had gotten far too used to a massive unsustainable construction industry. With emigration and the current level of empty houses it will be many years before any significant amount of houses will need to be built.

tim_holsters

ejmaztec wrote: »

I think there's still money to be made in the construction industry, mainly through bricking up FF supporters in their houses.

Right on.

Outkast_IRE

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I remember doing phase 2 and our instructor telling us that it was a training allowance and that when we returned to work we probably wouldnt be earing enough from our employer to pay any income tax for the year.

Well i get a slip from FAS after every training phase stating the amount of prsi that they will be forwarding to revenue for me , your meant to keep the slips in case you need to prove prsi was paid for that period. And income tax isnt prsi they are seperate as far as i know if your working officialy your paying prsi you need to earn a certain amount for income tax or paye

Outkast_IRE

Mrmoe wrote: »

The government could and should invest more in our public transport infrastructure. Other large construction projects such as water meter installation, high speed broadband, water infrastructure and renewable energy sources, if funded properly, would provide a boost to the people working in construction. The government does not even have to fund these projects directly, just incentivise it enough to people will be encouraged to start projects.

good point i was recently discussing with people about a incentive to get the water meter installed quicker by people like some sort of a deducted rate to pay back the installation costs etc

Wertz

feelingstressed wrote: »

He must have more work then he can handle.

It never occured to you that it might be an issue with the weather?
Not that that makes any excuse for not calling and rescheduling.


As for when it'll pick up? Never, if you're talking about the heady days of 4-5 yrs back...those days are gone and probably won't be seen in this country for another 2 generations.
Short of a capital spending programme on public buildings, schools, hospitals, nursing homes (with what capital?) nothing is going to influence the building trade out of this slump. Things will pick up gradually, mainly with people building extensions, renovation work and general maintenance.
Being able to rely on trades work as a Mon-Fri 9-5 is a long way off just yet.

There is a slim chance that certain estates and builds under NAMA control will be finished in order to sell the property...although I doubt there's too many contractors and more importantly sub contractors willing to take the risk of not getting paid again.

The supply of houses is more than enough to meet current levels of demand and bank lending.

Micky Dolenz

FF and Proud, Banned.

mikemac

Wertz wrote: »

It never occured to you that it might be an issue with the weather?
Not that that makes any excuse for not calling and rescheduling.

No, more to do with setting appointments and never showing up or not calling.
Of course I accept the roads were bad, who could possibly overlook that. So yes, it did occur to me

If you agree a time it's common courtesy to call if you can't make it.
Not leave me hanging around all day waiting. Not once but twice!

I can't leave as I have to be here to be meet him. Frustrating!
Anyway, this thread isn't about me. So back ontopic

Wertz

galah wrote: »

same sentiment here - wanted the outside of the house painted, rang a painting company, they agreed to come out to quote us (roughly a grand's worth of work we reckoned), I took the day off work to be home - they never showed up. Never cancelled, didnt answer their phone.

We then decided to post the job on one of the jobsites for tradesmen - not a single reply.

So really, it can't be that bad out there.

Pity you're the other side of the country. Could be doing with the work...although it's a poor time of year to be getting anything done on the exterior of the house, unless it can't wait (raw timber, or damage to substrates).
You could do worse than try adverts.ie or some of the guys in the DIY forum that might be over that direction.

It is that bad out there....but painting is constrained by winter weather and anyone with work on will be rushing to have it finished for this side of the holidays. As I said to feelingstressed though, there is simply no excuse for not making a call to reschedule...and definitely no excuse for not answering a phone.


feelingstressed: if that were me I'd tell the guy to do one and get someone else. Lots of carpenters out there with no work currently...they should be taking the hand off you.,

nonsmoker

galah wrote: »

same sentiment here - wanted the outside of the house painted, rang a painting company, they agreed to come out to quote us (roughly a grand's worth of work we reckoned), I took the day off work to be home - they never showed up. Never cancelled, didnt answer their phone.

We then decided to post the job on one of the jobsites for tradesmen - not a single reply.

So really, it can't be that bad out there.

I agree, I needed a job done that was gonna cost approx 2grand. Started ringing around, rang 14 different boys.
2 genuinly couldnt do it as they are no longer in that line of work
3 came out and gave me a quote
Of the other 9, some gave me a time and date that they would call to house and never showed, others said they would to ring me back but didnt

If I hear another tradesman complainging that theres no work, times are tight, complaining that foreigners are getting the jobs....

FF and proud

nonsmoker wrote: »

I agree, I needed a job done that was gonna cost approx 2grand. Started ringing around, rang 14 different boys.
2 genuinly couldnt do it as they are no longer in that line of work
3 came out and gave me a quote
Of the other 9, some gave me a time and date that they would call to house and never showed, others said they would to ring me back but didnt

If I hear another tradesman complainging that theres no work, times are tight, complaining that foreigners are getting the jobs....

I dont understand what your trying to say here at all.

PrincessLola

Y'all postin' in a troll thread:cool:

Seriously, I've been noticing the general contents of FF's posts and reckon he is a troll of the highest order, he masterfully maintains a degree of slight believability that prevents anyone from outright ignoring him; yet he lures posters in under the pretence of being a FF voter, which in this day and age is the ultamite act of trolling.

Or I could be wrong and he really is serious:(

Tech3

FF and proud wrote: »

What will it take to get the building industry up and running again, and all the jobs and money it will create.

There was no such thing as "up and running". The level of construction over the last 10 years was unsustainable for a country of this size and we will never see another one(boom) in our lifetime. We are returning to reality with higher taxes and less public sector jobs/pay.