Ideas for recovery

youcrazyjesus!

djpbarry wrote: »

Personally, I’d like to see fewer people acting like they have to put their lives on pause because they can’t get a mortgage. That applies to both the UK and Ireland.

Negative post is negative. Relax. Some people can afford property at decent prices. They should he given loans like anywhere else in the world.

Should they be paid with IOU’s?

What? The NPRF will capitalize the new bank.

How many times has this been suggested now? Seriously, is this the best we can come up with? How about people just be a little more proactive and use their initiative. Stop waiting for someone to create a job for you and go create some work for yourself.

Er I have a job. I was suggesting a way of brining in money that's already out there into the taxnet, reduce crime, free up resources at the same time. It's a suggestion. Relax.

Why?

To grow the economy by using an existing resource.

I’ve never understood the sacred nature of Shannon. Airlines don’t fly there because people don’t want to go there. It’s pretty simple.

Nobody visits Ireland, let alone the west coast.

Relax a bit.

Tim Robbins

Idea 1: If you have a tracker for a gaf and are struggling to pay the morgage. You can sell not just the gaf but the tracker morgage thereby enabling you to get more for the gaf. This will help the person in debt and help the bank get their money.

Idea 2: If you have a large celtic tiger morgage say 500K for a gaf that is worth 350K. You can move to a gaf that is now worth 200K and keep your tracker. The 150K can be used to pay back any morgage arrears you have.

Idea 3: Similar to above. Rather than the bank doing an outright repossion they can put you in one of their houses they have repossessed already.

Idea 4: Bring in bench marking - adjust public sector pay.

Idea 5: Partial default by Irish banks on Senior Bond holders.

cavedave

I believe we should allow into Ireland one million third world immigrants from many different countries.

This would
1. Reduce labour costs for semi skilled work
2. Increase demand for property
3. Spread the national debt over more people

You can allow people in with authoritarian rules about deporting those who break rules. Ireland with these rules would be better than their current situation or they would not come here.
Allowing in immigrants when we have 13% unemployment is counterintuitive but our builders are only going to work here again when more people demand houses etc. Also these million workers will need Irish people fluent in English to supervise them and sell the products they produce

There is a good podcast dealing with most of the objections to immigration here
It deals with the objections of 1. Crime 2. Wage competition 3. Welfare abuse 4. Culture that the immigration debate brings up.

ilovesleep

Heres an idea: what does every house in the country have? Milk. Milk is only sold in cartons and plastic bottles which creates a lot of waste. How about selling milk in glass bottles and when your milk is gone you bring your bottles to say for example your local shop where the milkman deliveries could pick them up and take them off for cleaning. So there you go - glass cleaning fractories. And better still bring back milkmen for home deliveries. You could leave your empty bottles out for the milkman.

maxwell smart

This should generate 25million directly and another 25million indirectly.
Now lots of people won't like it but desperate times and all that.

Rezone 10,000 acres as a game hunting reserve. Breed a load of genetically modified deer (stags and doe). Charge hunters 10k for a 3 day pass with a limit of 2 deer.
Work up to having a production line breeding programme and aim for 2,500 hunters by year 3. That would be 5,000 carcasses max.

Big game hunters equal big money. They would also combine the hunting with a city break somewhere where they would spend at least another 2k.

Green party members need not apply:D

sarumite

cavedave wrote: »

I believe we should allow into Ireland one million third world immigrants from many different countries.

This would
1. Reduce labour costs for semi skilled work
2. Increase demand for property
3. Spread the national debt over more people

You can allow people in with authoritarian rules about deporting those who break rules. Ireland with these rules would be better than their current situation or they would not come here.
Allowing in immigrants when we have 13% unemployment is counterintuitive but our builders are only going to work here again when more people demand houses etc. Also these million workers will need Irish people fluent in English to supervise them and sell the products they produce

There is a good podcast dealing with most of the objections to immigration here
It deals with the objections of 1. Crime 2. Wage competition 3. Welfare abuse 4. Culture that the immigration debate brings up.

With 450k on the dole, what jobs do you expect this extra million to fill?

later12

cavedave wrote: »

I believe we should allow into Ireland one million third world immigrants from many different countries.

1. Labour costs are not a problem - unit labour costs have been slashed and our competitiveness has been restored and wage levels are following suit.
2. The problem is not there are not enough people amongst whom the national debt may be divided. The problem is that there is not enough employment for those who are already here.
3. Increasing the population by about 30% in a short space of time puts unthinkable pressure upon public infrastructure, which is already suffering.
4. That post cannot really be serious.

cc-offe

gonedrinking wrote: »

Yes but some things to take into consideration:

1. NAMA doesn't have to release every house on its books into the scheme all in one go, they could have a trial run to see if the move is popular. If it proves popular, then introduce it in phases.
2. Even if they did release every house into the scheme all in one go, its not going to have a significant effect on private landlords straight away since all the houses aren't going to be snapped up in a month or 2. Most people don't think about owning a house until they are in a long term stable relationship with a view to starting a family, therefore the scheme probably won't appeal to younger people that much.
3. Once all the houses have been taken up and private landlords start losing out, they will be forced to reduce their rent prices. This will tempt many of the people who are currently living with parents to move out and get their own place again.
4. Even if private landlords are still losing out after this occurs, its still a preferable situation to the state losing out by having all the loans on NAMA not performing. This is because of a number of factors: (a) Since we will have brought people who were living with their parents back into the market, the economy has improved as a whole. (b) We are borrowing at huge interest rates for NAMA. (c) Private landlords are in a better place to absorb losses since many of them will have paid off large amounts of their mortgage, and therefore will be able to restructure their mortgage or just be able to cope with having to lower rents. (d) With rents coming down and therefore the cost of living decreasing, people will have more disposable income and confidence to spend will come back.

A close family member approached them about this....not interested, NAMA is a joke, not for not going with the idea but because I don't think they are interested in any ideas

cavedave

later10

1. Labour costs are not a problem - unit labour costs have been slashed and our competitiveness has been restored and wage levels are following suit.
2. The problem is not there are not enough people amongst whom the national debt may be divided. The problem is that there is not enough employment for those who are already here.
3. Increasing the population by about 30% in a short space of time puts unthinkable pressure upon public infrastructure, which is already suffering.
4. That post cannot really be serious.

1. Our comptetiveness has not improved that much. This post "Economics 7/11/10: Irish competitiveness - myths and facts" explains this here

This image in particular shows this but it is too large to post here.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2TONRBOd21o/TNbuZ-jwfWI/AAAAAAAADVM/G7x7sGlQSRM/s1600/Picture6.png

"Irish gains in competitiveness during this crisis have been rather smaller than asserted"

2. Unskilled workers with little education from the third world wont compete with the graduates and skilled tradesmen who are currently uneployed in Ireland. To claim otherwise is to say that a shoe factory in China will result in more Irish people being employed than a shoe factory in Ireland.
Even if all the workers in the factory are Chinese having the factory in Ireland leads to secondary gains to the Irish economy that will lead to more employment for Irish people.

3. This is a fair point. But how quickly we should allow unskilled migrants to work here is a minor question compared to whether we should allow them to work here.

Leiva

Drop our Corporate Tax rate to 11%

Nolanger

• Bring back the Irish whaling industry
• Introduce a cat licence
• Legalise cannabis and tax it
• Sell the Spire
• Close down crappy courses in the ITs
• Put a tax on church collections
• Collect rain water and reuse it
• Scrap the Senate

djpbarry

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Some people can afford property at decent prices. They should he given loans like anywhere else in the world.

They should be given loans if they have collateral and they can afford to repay, which is up to the lender to ascertain.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Er I have a job.

I wasn’t referring to you specifically. I just find it depressing that “legalising marijuana” get’s thrown around so much on this forum as some kind of economic silver bullet.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

To grow the economy by using an existing resource.

How will subsidised flights to Shannon help to grow the economy?

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Nobody visits Ireland, let alone the west coast.

People do visit Ireland, but people don’t visit Shannon.

djpbarry

Nolanger wrote: »

Close down crappy courses in the ITs

Such as?

Nolanger

djpbarry wrote: »

Such as?

Quantity Surveying
Construction Management
Music Technology
Applied Archaeology
Performing Arts
Road Transport Technology and Management
Construction Management
Property Development and Management
Heritage Studies
Auctioneering, Valuation and Estate Agency
Journalism
Applied Music
Aircraft Systems
Sustainable Architectural Technology
Real Estate (Valuation and Management)
Spa Management

ROCKMAN

ok maybe a bit out there but sell a few of the state treasures ,
Growing up I was always told that the Book of Kells etc etc were all priceless. So maybe we should/could test that theory

silverharp

Nolanger wrote: »

Quantity Surveying
Construction Management
Music Technology
Applied Archaeology
Performing Arts
Road Transport Technology and Management
Construction Management
Property Development and Management
Heritage Studies
Auctioneering, Valuation and Estate Agency
Journalism
Applied Music
Aircraft Systems
Sustainable Architectural Technology
Real Estate (Valuation and Management)
Spa Management

very good , there is a complete bubble in education here, many of these courses should be dropped and get back to an apprenticeship model. Much cheaper and the trainees know they have jobs at the end.

Sir Shankalot

my figures are not exact and this particular topic is not a hobby horse of mine or an attack on Social Welfare…it is merely an idea that serves to reduce our expenditure as a country with minimal or no impact on the man on the street. I am not claiming that my figures below are exact but the concept should be clear.
The US employs a system whereby some proportion of Social Welfare is paid in the form of food stamps or vouchers. If we look at the amount spent on Welfare & FAS it is circa EUR22bn. Let’s assume that EUR15bn of this is paid to people who have the capacity to work in some shape or form and is paid to them in cash. My suggestion is that we pay half of any welfare payments in the form of food vouchers. The Government could then broker a deal with stores willing to partake in the scheme, regardless of whether they are Irish or not. As an example the Govt broker a deal with Tesco, Aldi, Superquinn, Spar, Centra, Londis, Lidl to give them a 20% discount on the EUR7.5bn of vouchers. The upside for the Govt and as a result us taxpayers is that our expenditure is reduced by EUR1.5bn. The people on Social Welfare can reasonably expect to spend half of their benefits purchasing items that these stores provide so as opposed to a cut in their benefits, they are receiving an equivalent medium through which to purchase items essential for their day to day lives. The money would be spent in the real Irish economy as opposed to over the border, and since all stores, both domestic and international, would be invited to partake in the scheme, anti-competition or protectionist issues could be avoided.
Perhaps I am being naive or simply ill-informed as to the desire or even ability of stores like Tesco or Superquinn to be able to offer a 20% discount but like so many other businesses now, offering discounts to achieve greater turnover is the way of the world and a means of survival. The injection of 7.5bn of revenue into these firms would surely be seen as a welcome boost.
as I said my figures are not prescriptive and I am sure it is easier said than done but there are ways in which we can help ourselves and there are ways that the Govt must help us to help ourselves.

Rob A. Bank

Now that we are penniless road kill, after the Bond Market vigilantes drove over us Mad Max style as they chase down the Euro, we should perhaps look to other countries who have money to burn.

Offer a 25 year rent on Spike Island or the underused deep water facilities in Bantry Bay to the Chinese or Russian navy as their North Atlantic Base.

That should cause the loan sharks who have us by the short and curlies to relent and perhaps open up other more favourable 'Western' money channels to us.

I look forward with interest to future Wikileaks from the American Embassy in Dublin if we follow this course.

;-)

cyclopath2001

vintac34 wrote: »

Cap ........Abolish ....Slash ...Cut...

We could save 700m a year by dropping Irish from the school curriculum.

Since, the net economic effect of current Irish language teaching is negligable, there would be no impact on employabilty or competiveness.

Let anyone who wants to learn Irish, learn from volunteers and enthusiasts.

ardmacha

We could put a registration tax on bicycles, who use the roads without paying for them. Some attempt to enforce fines on cyclists, would also raise a lot of money as this delinquent sector of society where few laws are respected.

ryaner012

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

We could save 700m a year by dropping Irish from the school curriculum.

Since, the net economic effect of current Irish language teaching is negligable, there would be no impact on employabilty or competiveness.

Let anyone who wants to learn Irish, learn from volunteers and enthusiasts.

I agree is the respect that if you remove subjects that are compulsory people that chose to take them would be more interested and do better.

I hated trying to learn Irish and French when I was in school, but no I wish that i was better at Irish and am trying to pick it up again.

They should reduce the amount of French that is taught too.. that is a language that is redundant these days.

The education system promoted learning languages such as French and German so that students could deal with Europe with work as these used to be the major countries that jobs would have been available but that is no longer the case

cyclopath2001

ardmacha wrote: »

We could put a registration tax on bicycles, who use the roads without paying for them. Some attempt to enforce fines on cyclists, would also raise a lot of money as this delinquent sector of society where few laws are respected.

As regards fines, no problem with that as long as speeding laws, parking, and stop-on-amber laws are rigourously enforced for all road users. Presently, motorists commit more offences every minute than cyclists and mostly get away with it. There's huge scope for improved compliance. Thed reduction in accidents when people fall in line would benefit the economy in general.

What do you mean by 'using roads and not paying for them'? I do not understand what you mean.

Discouraging bicycle use would be counter-productive as unnecessary car use causes us to spend more on imported cars and fuel. It also clogs up the roads and increases the cost to productive road users who get stuck behind single-occupant cars on frivolous journeys. The health benefits of cycling would lead to reduced costs on the health system.

Don't let petty resentment blind you from the big picture.

djpbarry

Nolanger wrote: »

Quantity Surveying
...
Spa Management

I don’t know enough about the courses in question to judge whether or not they are of value (and I doubt you do either), but some on that list certainly look valuable. Aircraft Systems, in particular, stands out.

Nolanger

djpbarry wrote: »

Aircraft Systems, in particular, stands out.

Right, and where are graduates in Aircraft Systems going to work in Ireland? Thought 1000s of people working in this area lost their jobs last year?

redto

Tourism is one area where thre is potential growt. We have some fantastic beaches in this country, however many have lost their blue flag status, how about people on the dole doing a clean up. I know water polution is a major issue on some but that is a debate for another thread as to why developement was allowed without proper water/sewage treatement, or where the money went.

Surf tourism, again we have some of the best surfing waters in the world and it is best in winter which is traditional 'off season'. Ok people say surfers dont spend huge money but if Mr O'leary an mr aer lingus did deals for surfers and their boards when there is a storm/swell due, perhaps we could have more surfers coming, car rental companies offering cars with surf racks or surf kit rental at the locations.

Bird tourism, ok a bit tricky but again the north west of ireland has some of the best bird watching for winter migratory birds in europe, and they are not subject to landing fees.


Controversial here but, how about the government making it easier for someone on the dole to start their own busisness. You say to dole office Im starting a busisness making and selling widgets. dole says good for you, here is contact in enterprise board local developement board etc. we need basic sales v costs figures from you, you can keep your dole and when your earnings exceed x then we deduct x from your dole, when you are on self sufficent we suspend dole. When you are actually earning you should also be working as a paye worker so that you do not loose out if the venture fails, or if it is seasonal. The problem if someone goes self employed and their small venture goes bust then they have no fall back. Again the added benefit if properly policed and encouraged that it removes the whole nixer fraud thing.

Shoes/handbags leather goods. We kill a hell of a lot of animals in this country, how about a tanning/ high end leather industry. I know the process is fairly toxic smelly but it could be managed, look at italy, all the small shoemakers working there.

Wool , again there is no money in shearing sheep now but ya got to figure all the wool we shear off sheep has got to be useful as insulation or insulation mix for this home energy incentive

Let the government encourage farmers to grow cash crops, I make it a habit (halo on here) to try and buy Irish grown vegetables potatoes etc. of possible. I am astounded that we import potatoes and carrrots etc from israel. There can be no good reason for that, I mean its not even in eu so its not like its an eu thing.

Fishing. Make it easier for small busisness /sole traders to do busisness. I know a fisherman who could not sell lobster to local restaurants, he was only catching a small number as a sideline from his other busisness (legitimate) but they could not buy local fresh fish because of some stupid health ans safety euro weenie green rules. The restaurant could buy imported lobster no problem.

Take back our fishing grounds. hell the eu got billions and billions worth of fishing grounds from us.



I also really need to learn how to type and spell and proof read.

djpbarry

Nolanger wrote: »

Right, and where are graduates in Aircraft Systems going to work in Ireland? Thought 1000s of people working in this area lost their jobs last year?

So any course that does not produce graduates for whom jobs exist right now should be scrapped? Won’t that entail doing away with about 90% of third-level courses in this country? And isn’t that just a little short-sighted?

redto wrote: »

Controversial here but, how about the government making it easier for someone on the dole to start their own busisness.

Such a scheme (Back to Work Enterprise Allowance) already exists.

redto wrote: »

Take back our fishing grounds. hell the eu got billions and billions worth of fishing grounds from us.

We got far more from them.

Nolanger

djpbarry wrote: »

So any course that does not produce graduates for whom jobs exist right now should be scrapped? ... And isn’t that just a little short-sighted?

If they close down the aircraft systems industry that existed here up to 2009 (SR Technics) and make 1,130 highly skilled people in this area unemployed what is the point in training people for an Aircraft Systems degree when the jobs have gone from this country?

Slozer

redto wrote: »

Fishing. Make it easier for small busisness /sole traders to do busisness. I know a fisherman who could not sell lobster to local restaurants, he was only catching a small number as a sideline from his other busisness (legitimate) but they could not buy local fresh fish because of some stupid health ans safety euro weenie green rules. The restaurant could buy imported lobster no problem.

Take back our fishing grounds. hell the eu got billions and billions worth of fishing grounds from us.
QUOTE]

I Agree,

There was an awful lot of regulation set up since we joined the EU that has strangled two of our greatest assets, our agriculture and our fisheries. Food is about to become a very sought after commodity world wide and our country is a food gold mine. If we could break free from EU regulation we would see an explosion of food exports that would be the envy of every other nation. We need to produce and we need to export - the jobs would flood back. I believe this is key to our future success. I watched the RTE programe Skippers and watched a fisherman throw dead cod back into the sea because of EU quotas. This is a disgrace and is exactly why we are in this situation.

We could start getting this country back on track be reopening the profit making Mallow sugar factory which provided so many direct and indirect jobs.

We are no good at house speculation, banking and finance so lets get back to what we are good at, fishing and growing stuff.

ilovesleep

Agree completely with the above posters about agriculture and fisheries.
I think animal petting farms would be great for tourism and there is not many of them. We have a lot of beautiful animals in this country - cows, pigs, sheep, horses, donkeys, hens. I love donkeys especially baby ones.

Nolanger

Not just fishing, we should have a whaling industry too.