Ideas for recovery

youcrazyjesus!

It's important we identify and understand where the Government went wrong but we also need some realistic idea that any stale FF Government would never countenance due to the vested interests they still look after and the political way the govern this State and but any progressive, open minded Government would and could do so tomorrow.

Personally, I would like to see a new bank, heavily capitalised by the NPRF, giving out the loans that the current banks aren't even considering. We can't wait around for 10 years for banks to start lending again, people who can afford it who have a strong saving history and secure jobs should be given loans and mortgages. The assets secured against the loans in the case of a morgage, the house itself, are already written down to a reasonable level.

If a business that has survived to date needs a modest overdraft facility, give it. It would do an unbelievable amount of good. It would
"only" be a few billion and even if it incurrsed losses it would be worth trying. Of course we would need a change to EU rules but it would
be a good way of improving the banks if good loans were transferred to private banks once it was established they were performing. And there
could be a facility to transfer it back if it wasn't. It's a much better use of it than signing ourselves up to a vicious debt cycle and wasting it. This
would be a NAMA for new loans basically.

Decriminalising and legalising marijuana/cannabis and decriminalising other drugs. Free up legal system, take in lots of tax, employ people in
the distribution of it, reduce gangland murders. It could be worth 500 million a year through various savings.

Allowing Shannon Airport to run independently to Dublin. We have a great road network, Shannon is only 2 hours from Dublin, 1 hour from Galway, not much more from Cork and there is also the pre-clearance for the US which could be used in some circumstances. BA's all business Heathrow-JFK already uses it. Have a binding agreement with Ryanair and Aer Lingus and whoever else wants to tender to have X amount of seats at €X euros coming into the place at proper hours of the day. Dublin Airport is going to lose money no matter what there is no point in strangling the rest of the country for its' sake. We should also subsidise hotel rooms and car hires via tax breaks

We desperately need to grow the economy and start reducing unemployment. Tourism is one area we can grow quickly imo and we could start doing it tomorrow with the right Government.

maxwell smart

Build a super casino near Shannon airport. Aim it at Americans on the east coast and fellow Europeans. Make it as glitzy and tacky as a Vegas hotel and watch the money roll in. I reckon a billion for construction, maybe 2500 jobs when up and running and another billion a year in income for the state. Get private companies to build it. We would have a queue of them.

zig

^^as insane as that sounds there really is no flaws in that suggestion, although I think your billion a year intake may be a bit over optimistic.

sarumite

maxwell smart wrote: »

Build a super casino near Shannon airport. Aim it at Americans on the east coast and fellow Europeans. Make it as glitzy and tacky as a Vegas hotel and watch the money roll in. I reckon a billion for construction, maybe 2500 jobs when up and running and another billion a year in income for the state. Get private companies to build it. We would have a queue of them.

Although if I lived on the East coast of the US I would prefer to go to Florida than Ireland for a casino trip if I am being honest.

optocynic

sarumite wrote: »

Although if I lived on the East coast of the US I would prefer to go to Florida than Ireland for a casino trip if I am being honest.

Indeed, or on a cruise ship to rhe Carribean.
But, it's an Idea worth checking out. If Blackpool is still profitable, why can't this work?
Of course the rather backward planning laws (Only bungalows, and only people in the local GAA can build!) would be a major problem.

maxwell smart

I think the time for worrying if An Taisce will be upset about building something is past. Ok 1 billion is over ambitious, but I reckon we could get 2-300 million in revenue from wages, taxes etc. And the add on benefits to suppliers etc.

There are lots of Americans who would love to come here and this is an added incentive. It would also attract lots of conferences, that's big money.

djpbarry

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

We can't wait around for 10 years for banks to start lending again, people who can afford it who have a strong saving history and secure jobs should be given loans and mortgages.

Personally, I’d like to see fewer people acting like they have to put their lives on pause because they can’t get a mortgage. That applies to both the UK and Ireland.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

If a business that has survived to date needs a modest overdraft facility, give it.

Should they be paid with IOU’s?

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Decriminalising and legalising marijuana/cannabis and decriminalising other drugs.

How many times has this been suggested now? Seriously, is this the best we can come up with? How about people just be a little more proactive and use their initiative. Stop waiting for someone to create a job for you and go create some work for yourself.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Allowing Shannon Airport to run independently to Dublin.
...
Have a binding agreement with Ryanair and Aer Lingus and whoever else wants to tender to have X amount of seats at €X euros coming into the place at proper hours of the day.
...
We should also subsidise hotel rooms and car hires via tax breaks

Why? I’ve never understood the sacred nature of Shannon. Airlines don’t fly there because people don’t want to go there. It’s pretty simple.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Tourism is one area we can grow quickly imo and we could start doing it tomorrow with the right Government.

Ok, fair enough. Tourism is something that Ireland is likely to be highly dependent on, but it’s the high costs associated with visiting Ireland that turn most potential tourists off, I imagine. Getting costs down is going to be difficult as long as people in Ireland continue to believe that living on €8.65 per hour equates to poverty.

martinn123

We need to get regular commerce operating again. Business in many sectors has stalled while we awaited the details of Bailout, Budget etc.

The reality is that we have a huge amount of savings in the Economy, not everyone is out of work thankfully. People have posponed normal spending while the News was full of doom and gloom.

If people who have savings and have posponed spending get back into the marketplace we will all benefit.

You all heard the story of the E100 note which travelled the length of a village and everyone benefited, thats the type of activity, all be it a very simple example of what we need.

If I generate turnover, I can pay my rent, pay bills, and even have a few bob for myself, but we need to free up the wheels of commerce.

So my suggestion is stop hoarding money, ( assuming you have any ) put it to work within the ecomomy and lets help ourselves, rather than wait for the engine of commerce to seize up.

sirromo

The annual US military budget is over 600 billion. I'm sure we could get our hands on some of that money if we gave up our neutrality and let the Americans open up a few military bases here.

optocynic

sirromo wrote: »

The annual US military budget is over 600 billion. I'm sure we could get our hands on some of that money if we gave up our neutrality and let the Americans open up a few military bases here.

That is actually an interesting idea. Doesn't the US pay 4bn a year to Cuba for Guantanamo?
Let's give them Limerick!

sarumite

optocynic wrote: »

That is actually an interesting idea. Doesn't the US pay 4bn a year to Cuba for Guantanamo?
Let's give them Limerick!

Unfortunately since then the US has developed planes that no longer need to refuel at shannon as in decades gone by. Also since Sept 11 attacks, the focus has shifted from Russia to the Mid east, meaning Ireland location is not a preferable as before. The US have a base in Germany which is pretty well established and I would imagine serves there purpose for a presence in Europe. Added to the fact that Ireland is not a member of Nato, I don't see this as a possible runner.

optocynic

sarumite wrote: »

Unfortunately since then the US has developed planes that no longer need to refuel at shannon as in decades gone by. Also since Sept 11 attacks, the focus has shifted from Russia to the Mid east, meaning Ireland location is not a preferable as before. The US have a base in Germany which is pretty well established and I would imagine serves there purpose for a presence in Europe. Added to the fact that Ireland is not a member of Nato, I don't see this as a possible runner.

Actually, I knew all that, and fully agreed with it all.
My previous post suffered from a dire lack of a 'sarcasm font!'

ROCKMAN

Hold back say 50% of the revenue from the lotto , The monies that are going to the big charities and groups ie GAA and such. What is it a couple of million every week ,may only be a drop in the ocean but its a start.

ilovesleep

something very small that may be worth exploring. it may help pubs to remain open. the idea is to allow dogs in pubs. im serious too. so many times i felt like a drink or two but people arent there anymore to go out. so you could take the dog for walkies and stop in at the local for a drink or two. it may even attract wealthy americans who wish to holiday with their pets.

optocynic

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Hold back say 50% of the revenue from the lotto , The monies that are going to the big charities and groups ie GAA and such. What is it a couple of million every week ,may only be a drop in the ocean but its a start.

Well, a lot of the charities are valdi ones that do need help.
Blind kids
Deaf Kids
Make a Wish etc.

But to hell with the GAA. Don't they get enough from each club's bar being open way past closing time serving the local cops and TD's?

Maybe this would help plug a weekly spending gap, in say, Education.

optocynic

ilovesleep wrote: »

something very small that may be worth exploring. it may help pubs to remain open. the idea is to allow dogs in pubs. im serious too. so many times i felt like a drink or two but people arent there anymore to go out. so you could take the dog for walkies and stop in at the local for a drink or two. it may even attract wealthy americans who wish to holiday with their pets.

When I was in college and worked as a barman, I always let the nice locals in with their dogs for a quick pint or two. Once the dog is well behaved and doesn't smell too bad.
They liked to sit by the fire, and actually lifted the atmosphere of the bar!

sarumite

optocynic wrote: »

Actually, I knew all that, and fully agreed with it all.
My previous post suffered from a dire lack of a 'sarcasm font!'

oops....I didn't see the smiley face above. My apologies.

gonedrinking

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Personally, I would like to see a new bank, heavily capitalised by the NPRF, giving out the loans that the current banks aren't even considering. We can't wait around for 10 years for banks to start lending again, people who can afford it who have a strong saving history and secure jobs should be given loans and mortgages. The assets secured against the loans in the case of a morgage, the house itself, are already written down to a reasonable level.

I don't see why NAMA don't introduce rent to buy schemes. They are sitting on all these ghosts estates so why not introduce a scheme like that, this would bring in a huge amount of money for the state. Its a scheme that will benefit everyone and comes with virtually no risks attached.

sarumite

gonedrinking wrote: »

I don't see why NAMA don't introduce rent to buy schemes. They are sitting on all these ghosts estates so why not introduce a scheme like that, this would bring in a huge amount of money for the state. Its a scheme that will benefit everyone and comes with virtually no risks attached.

What happens to the private rental market? I mean I can't imagine someone renting a place which they will never own if for the same price they can rent a place which they will someday own. Suddenly you find BTL owners in arrears on their mortgage since their tenents abandoned them to get a "rent to buy" house and we are back to the problem of banks losing money.

sirromo

I saw an article somewhere showing that 9 out of 10 Irish adults are planning on buying things online this Christmas. If 90% of the adult population have access to the internet then I think we should look seriously at the opportunities available to unemployed people for making money online. There are plenty of sites that seem fairly legit and that offer money for things like filling in surveys and correcting misspellings/typos.

meboloxitis

This subject has often come up at home & here are a few good ones we have talked about:

Legalise Prostitution: The law will never stop it happening illegally & there is the possibility of huge tax revenueto be gained if regulated properly. Government also has the advantage of using Holland as a template to set up. Tourism would be another major +

Legalise Cannabis: As mentioned in previous post it would free up valuable guarda resources to hunt down criminals & huge tax revenue to be gained. Tourism would be another major +

Generic Brand Medicine: Country is flat broke and HSE simply cannot afford the "brand name" medicince distributed. There is a cheaper alternative with exact same ingredients which do the exact same job but the government doesnt have the balls to go up against big pharmacutical.

Illegal Migrant Workers: Immigration needs to start looking into non EU workers working illegally in this country. The majority of non EU nationals working in Ireland are on student visa's and are working beyond 20 hours per week. Every shop, take away etc you go into now has asian workers when they should be in college. Border patrol in New Zealand & OZ fine business owners $10k for hiring illegals! Im sure a lot of people on the dole would appreciate a job in a shop if it was available = fines for employers, people off the dole & tax revenue coming in.

Cut Ministers Pensions: not in my life time anyway...

dirtyghettokid

not sure how people will feel about this, but for social welfare i think a fingerprint system should be introduced. your fingerprint is linked in with your card and you need a scan of your fingerprint to receive your payment.
that would stop people selling their PPS numbers illegally to claim welfare. it would also stop people from living abroad and coming over to collect dole.
welfare fraud needs to be clamped down big time so that people who really need it, will get it!

is it too much for a fingerprint system do you think?

Selfheal

ilovesleep wrote: »

something very small that may be worth exploring. it may help pubs to remain open. the idea is to allow dogs in pubs. im serious too. so many times i felt like a drink or two but people arent there anymore to go out. so you could take the dog for walkies and stop in at the local for a drink or two. it may even attract wealthy americans who wish to holiday with their pets.

Yes, great idea, you see this everywhere in pubs in the UK (as well as proper, open fires), and they add a lot to the atmosphere.

gonedrinking

sarumite wrote: »

What happens to the private rental market? I mean I can't imagine someone renting a place which they will never own if for the same price they can rent a place which they will someday own. Suddenly you find BTL owners in arrears on their mortgage since their tenents abandoned them to get a "rent to buy" house and we are back to the problem of banks losing money.

Yes but some things to take into consideration:

1. NAMA doesn't have to release every house on its books into the scheme all in one go, they could have a trial run to see if the move is popular. If it proves popular, then introduce it in phases.
2. Even if they did release every house into the scheme all in one go, its not going to have a significant effect on private landlords straight away since all the houses aren't going to be snapped up in a month or 2. Most people don't think about owning a house until they are in a long term stable relationship with a view to starting a family, therefore the scheme probably won't appeal to younger people that much.
3. Once all the houses have been taken up and private landlords start losing out, they will be forced to reduce their rent prices. This will tempt many of the people who are currently living with parents to move out and get their own place again.
4. Even if private landlords are still losing out after this occurs, its still a preferable situation to the state losing out by having all the loans on NAMA not performing. This is because of a number of factors: (a) Since we will have brought people who were living with their parents back into the market, the economy has improved as a whole. (b) We are borrowing at huge interest rates for NAMA. (c) Private landlords are in a better place to absorb losses since many of them will have paid off large amounts of their mortgage, and therefore will be able to restructure their mortgage or just be able to cope with having to lower rents. (d) With rents coming down and therefore the cost of living decreasing, people will have more disposable income and confidence to spend will come back.

kyote00

shutdown boards so we all have to go to the pub to chat, while spending on beer and crisps....

youcrazyjesus!

djpbarry wrote: »

Personally, I’d like to see fewer people acting like they have to put their lives on pause because they can’t get a mortgage. That applies to both the UK and Ireland.

Negative post is negative. Relax. Some people can afford property at decent prices. They should he given loans like anywhere else in the world.

Should they be paid with IOU’s?

What? The NPRF will capitalize the new bank.

How many times has this been suggested now? Seriously, is this the best we can come up with? How about people just be a little more proactive and use their initiative. Stop waiting for someone to create a job for you and go create some work for yourself.
Why? I’ve never understood the sacred nature of Shannon. Airlines don’t fly there because people don’t want to go there. It’s pretty simple.
Ok, fair enough. Tourism is something that Ireland is likely to be highly dependent on, but it’s the high costs associated with visiting Ireland that turn most potential tourists off, I imagine. Getting costs down is going to be difficult as long as people in Ireland continue to believe that living on €8.65 per hour equates to poverty.[/QUOTE]

waxon-waxoff

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

not sure how people will feel about this, but for social welfare i think a fingerprint system should be introduced. your fingerprint is linked in with your card and you need a scan of your fingerprint to receive your payment.
that would stop people selling their PPS numbers illegally to claim welfare. it would also stop people from living abroad and coming over to collect dole.
welfare fraud needs to be clamped down big time so that people who really need it, will get it!

is it too much for a fingerprint system do you think?

Thats a good idea. Plenty of people doing nixers for cash too but its impossible to stop that.

For recovery we should look at where we have a competitive advantage and i think its tourism and food production. Call O'Learys bluff and half the €10 airport tax or drop it altogether and get more tourists in. Our climate is ideal for agriculture so we need to go back to that. Exporting food will create jobs in rural areas and help reduce our deficit.

The government made a big deal about the "smart economy" but that costs a huge amount and leads to a small number of jobs. If we focus on agriculture and tourism we can create growth easily and cheaply.

optocynic

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

Thats a good idea. Plenty of people doing nixers for cash too but its impossible to stop that.

For recovery we should look at where we have a competitive advantage and i think its tourism and food production. Call O'Learys bluff and half the €10 airport tax or drop it altogether and get more tourists in. Our climate is ideal for agriculture so we need to go back to that. Exporting food will create jobs in rural areas and help reduce our deficit.

The government made a big deal about the "smart economy" but that costs a huge amount and leads to a small number of jobs. If we focus on agriculture and tourism we can create growth easily and cheaply.

That was an interesting post, and I half agree with you. But as with all things economic, there is not one answer, the real approach is to use all answers. Try everything, in sensible measure.
The 'Smart Economy' is a good idea, and will harness the valuable resource we have from the last two decades which was a technology literate group of young graduates. Couple this with the low corporation tax, and we are off to the races.
As for the agriculture one, leading to exports, of course. But the free market does two things, makes smaller farmers suffer, and makes food cheaper. Personally, I'm on the side of large farms, and cheaper food, so the children of small farmers need to possibly train for something else.

sarumite

gonedrinking wrote: »

Yes but some things to take into consideration:

1. NAMA doesn't have to release every house on its books into the scheme all in one go, they could have a trial run to see if the move is popular. If it proves popular, then introduce it in phases.
2. Even if they did release every house into the scheme all in one go, its not going to have a significant effect on private landlords straight away since all the houses aren't going to be snapped up in a month or 2. Most people don't think about owning a house until they are in a long term stable relationship with a view to starting a family, therefore the scheme probably won't appeal to younger people that much.

It wouldn't just be snapped up in 2 months, it would be totally over subscribed. The last ten years shows that people would rather buy houses than pay rent. This is effecively selling houses at below market prices.

3. Once all the houses have been taken up and private landlords start losing out, they will be forced to reduce their rent prices. This will tempt many of the people who are currently living with parents to move out and get their own place again.

And once they reduce their rent prices, they can no longer pay the mortgage since they are getting less money, they go into arrears and we are back to banks losing money

4. Even if private landlords are still losing out after this occurs, its still a preferable situation to the state losing out by having all the loans on NAMA not performing. This is because of a number of factors: (a) Since we will have brought people who were living with their parents back into the market, the economy has improved as a whole. (b) We are borrowing at huge interest rates for NAMA. (c) Private landlords are in a better place to absorb losses since many of them will have paid off large amounts of their mortgage, and therefore will be able to restructure their mortgage or just be able to cope with having to lower rents. (d) With rents coming down and therefore the cost of living decreasing, people will have more disposable income and confidence to spend will come back.

a) Forget their parents, I am moving out of my rented accomodation and going on one of these "rent to buy" or "cheap ass house" scheme.
Selling houses at below market prices isn't the way towards a healthy economy imo
c) Without any evidence to support this, I really cannot comment
d) I don't see how this is related to a "rent to buy" scheme.

Idbatterim

the spirit of Ireland proposal could surely creates a huge amount of jobs and also stop billions of euro of gas and oil imports? we could even export the power!

vintac34

Cap all salaries and professional fees to a maximum of EU average.
Cap all state pensions at EU average max.
Abolish the Seanad and put money towards running a hospital.
Slash the number of TDs [ 50 would be more than enough!]
Slash the number of County/city/town Councellors by 75%.
Cut out all the junkets at public expense i.e how they empty bins in tokyo or such like.
Medical card prescriptions should be at least 1eu per item this would help prevent
wastage also generic drugs used where possible.
Some form of identity card be introduced to help reduce SW fraud.Embedded photo
or fingerprint recognition...No card=No payment.
Privatise as much of the public sector as possible, good starting point would be the
passport office after the way they treated the public last year!!
Finally for now stand up to the unions and other such groupings,about as useless as
the seanad.Unions passed their sell by date about 50 years ago and are now simply
impeding progress!!