Fintan O'Toole's Petition for Political reform now live!!

sensibleken

Caoimhín wrote: »

Internet forums and petitions wont work.
Moaning wont work.
Marching wont work.
More money wont work.
Outside help wont work.
Hard work wont work.

Suggestions then?

prinz

sensibleken wrote: »

I dont agree with everything on the list but ill sign it anyway. We need reform now! we can deal with the specifics afterward.

Or to put it another way.... A Lot Done, More To Do. Now where have I heard that before..

TheZohanS

sensibleken wrote: »

Suggestions then?

Burn stuff down...

My name is URL

I don't agree with much of what he has in mind, but big reforms are needed and that's enough to make me want to sign the petition. Maybe it won't achieve anything, but it has a better chance of doing so than repeatedly trotting out the line that nothing can be changed.

PKen

1. SHARE THE PAIN
"No one paid from the public purse should earn more than €100,000 during the period of the emergency".
Fintan O'Toole seems to think, that anyone earning up to €100,000 is on a moderate income. Why not cap it, at €50,000? What could they do? - go to the Private Sector? They'd probably be paid less there.

4. CUT THE FAT
"Reduce the Dail to 100 members. Either transform the Senate within 12 months into a genuine forum for civic society or abolish it".
No mention of our bloated Public Sector. He always makes a distinction between our Elected Representatives and the Civil Service in general. Are they not both part of the problem?

7. END IMPUNITY
"Conduct an urgent review of company law to ensure that white collar criminals are brought to justice".
What does he mean by "white collar criminals"? Why not include Union bosses like Jack O'Connor (Siptu)? After all, he and David Begg (ICTU) contributed to our deficit, with the silly pay increases during Benchmarking.

10. NO MORE CRONYISM
"Make all appointments to State and public bodies open to public competition and Dail scrutiny. Ban any individual from being a director of more than three companies or public bodies".
The same "Infected" Civil Service will oversee who gets the jobs. Does he nievely believe that our Political Masters and the Civil Service are not part of the same "Clique"?

Cavehill Red

PKen wrote: »

1. SHARE THE PAIN
"No one paid from the public purse should earn more than €100,000 during the period of the emergency".
Fintan O'Toole seems to think, that anyone earning up to €100,000 is on a moderate income. Why not cap it, at €50,000? What could they do? - go to the Private Sector? They'd probably be paid less there.

Of course he thinks it's moderate. He's on nearly 90 himself.

PKen wrote: »

4. CUT THE FAT
"Reduce the Dail to 100 members. Either transform the Senate within 12 months into a genuine forum for civic society or abolish it".
No mention of our bloated Public Sector. He always makes a distinction between our Elected Representatives and the Civil Service in general. Are they not both part of the problem?

Both causing the deficit, yes. But Fintan's not the man to propose cuts in the PS.

PKen wrote: »

7. END IMPUNITY
"Conduct an urgent review of company law to ensure that white collar criminals are brought to justice".
What does he mean by "white collar criminals"? Why not include Union bosses like Jack O'Connor (Siptu)? After all, he and David Begg (ICTU) contributed to our deficit, with the silly pay increases during Benchmarking.

In fairness, Fintan O'Toole wasn't sitting around the table cutting the benchmarking deal. I'd like to see benchmarking 2, where they bring PS sector pay back DOWN to match private sector wages.

PKen wrote: »

10. NO MORE CRONYISM
"Make all appointments to State and public bodies open to public competition and Dail scrutiny. Ban any individual from being a director of more than three companies or public bodies".
The same "Infected" Civil Service will oversee who gets the jobs. Does he nievely believe that our Political Masters and the Civil Service are not part of the same "Clique"?

I'm more concerned about the limit of three. Why not one? Let's end the multiple sinecures entirely.

Mrmoe

Its a start but there are definite elements that need improvement.

2. PUT THE PARISH PUMP BACK IN THE PARISH
Real local democracy, paid for by local taxes, and using direct democracy at every level, must be established.

Isn't this the purpose of the local county and city councils. The only problem is they are incompetent and are generally based on outdated constituency areas.

3. END CLIENTILISM
Change the electoral system that turns TDs into constituency fixers. Replace it with a mix of direct election and a list system similar to that used for the Scottish parliament.
4. CUT THE FAT
Reduce the Dail to 100 members. Either transform the Senate within 12 months into a genuine forum for civic society or abolish it.
5. MAKE PARLIAMENT WORK.
Stop the use of the guillotine system to pass laws that have not been scrutinised. Give Dail committees the powers to examine proposals for spending before it happens and to hold those who spend public money accountable. Make senior public servants responsible for their decisions and actions.
6. BRING WOMEN INTO POLITICS
Cut public subsidies to political parties unless at least 30 per cent of their candidates are female.

Make it compulsory to vote. This will make sure that people no longer have the feeble excuse that we do not get the government we deserve. It will give power back to the people and away from special interest groups such as old age pensioners and public service employees. There should be no quotas for female politicians. You only have to look at the current crop of female politicians to show the caliber of this group. It is nothing special.

7. END IMPUNITY
Conduct an urgent review of company law to ensure that white collar criminals are brought to justice.
8. GET MONEY OUT OF POLITICS
Ban all significant private donations to political parties. Make parties publish annual accounts. Register and control lobbyists. Protect whistleblowers.
9. RESTORE THE RIGHT TO KNOW
Bring back the original Freedom of Information Act.
10. NO MORE CRONYISM
Make all appointments to State and public bodies open to public competition and Dail scrutiny. Ban any individual from being a director of more than three companies or public bodies.

More information should be made public including the salaries and wages of all public sector workers.

kincsem

12. END POLITICAL DYNASTIES
Ban family members from standing in the SAME constituency that other family members represented.

Dail seats are not owned by families.

Sanjuro

feelingstressed wrote: »

Fintan O'Toole getting himself in the news?
The same week as he launches his new book?

I'll say no more

Good.

Everybody self-promotes. Somebody who doesn't self-promote their own work is an idiot.

flynnlives

feelingstressed wrote: »

Fintan O'Toole getting himself in the news?
The same week as he launches his new book?

I'll say no more

Brian Cowen selling out Ireland to pay the private debts of speculators?
The same week Barry Andrews tells the public "to have some humility"?

I'll say no more

The_Minister

sensibleken wrote: »

I dont agree with everything on the list but ill sign it anyway. We need reform now! we can deal with the specifics afterward.

This sentiment makes me want to cry.:(

Fluorescence

As stated earlier in the thread, this petition isn't perfect, but we have to start somewhere. This petition has many good points (some which can be taken much further later down the line) and the only let down is the gender quota. The most capable person should get the job, not the person who fits a preconceived mold best. That said, if some real reform was made to the political system, more women might become interested in politics anyway on its own merit.

jimmycrackcorm

6. BRING WOMEN INTO POLITICS
Cut public subsidies to political parties unless at least 30 per cent of their candidates are female.

That's all we need - force us to have a bunch of women objecting to laws one week a month because of pms.

muffy

Caoimhín wrote: »

Internet forums and petitions wont work.
Moaning wont work.
Marching wont work.
More money wont work.
Outside help wont work.
Hard work wont work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izVMXWOfwkk

Nephew

6. BRING WOMEN INTO POLITICS
Cut public subsidies to political parties unless at least 30 per cent of their candidates are female.

Tbh affirmative action is a stupid idea. What's the point in sacrificing more qualified candidates for the sake of minorities. If you're not good enough, stop moaning and choose a different career. I couldn't give a toss if the whole cabinet were black, from Cavan or sexbots as long as they're genuinely the best the country has to offer.

muffy

Nephew wrote: »

Tbh affirmative action is a stupid idea. What's the point in sacrificing more qualified candidates for the sake of minorities. If you're not good enough, stop moaning and choose a different career. I couldn't give a toss if the whole cabinet were black, from Cavan or sexbots as long as they're genuinely the best the country has to offer.

LOL women aren't a minority!

steddyeddy

kincsem wrote: »

Dail seats are not owned by families.

But its made easier for a family member to enter a corrupt party like fianna fail

flynnlives

Almost 3,000 signatures in nine hours!!

Pretty good considering he has yet to start publising it properly.

Maybe this could gain momentum!!

enda1

What a pile of shit.

Its anti constitutional (direct democracy), sexist (gender quota), socialist (€100k cap) rubbish.

enda1

steddyeddy wrote: »

But its made easier for a family member to enter a corrupt party like fianna fail

Everyone can enter Fianna Fáil.

Here you go.

sensibleken

The_Minister wrote: »

This sentiment makes me want to cry.:(

re reading it it does sound like the stupidest thing ive ever said. no posting at the end of a long day for me any more

Fluorescence

enda1 wrote: »

What a pile of shit.

Its anti constitutional (direct democracy), sexist (gender quota), socialist (€100k cap) rubbish.

What's wrong with a €100k cap? I don't think anybody can deny 100,000 a year is big money. It's hardly like he's petitioning for all public servants to earn only minimum wage :rolleyes:

enda1

fluorescence wrote: »

What's wrong with a €100k cap? I don't think anybody can deny 100,000 a year is big money. It's hardly like he's petitioning for all public servants to earn only minimum wage :rolleyes:

I already said what's wrong with it.
You know the world is now being shown in full vivid technicolor, not just black and white...

Edit: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69296350&postcount=33

steddyeddy

enda1 wrote: »

Everyone can enter Fianna Fáil.

Here you go.

Are you unaware of a culture of nepotism in fianna fail or any other irish party for instance? Loook it up then compare it to other countires and get back to me!

enda1

steddyeddy wrote: »

Are you unaware of a culture of nepotism in fianna fail or any other irish party for instance? Loook it up then compare it to other countires and get back to me!

Do your own research, I'm sure as hell not gonna.

What has nepotism got to do with your ability or lack of to join a political party pray tell?

Monty Burnz

enda1 wrote: »

Do your own research, I'm sure as hell not gonna.

What has nepotism got to do with your ability or lack of to join a political party pray tell?

Here's a clue to the level of nepotism: the three top Fianna Failure politicians - Clowen, Comical Lenny, Sweary Mary (Taoiseach, Min Fin, Tanaiste) - all all the sons/daughters of former TDs. Perhaps this is a sign that political genius runs in families? Or, based on what we've seen from Fianna Failure in the last 5 or 10 years, perhaps it's more a sign of the endemic corruption and nepotism that exists in the party.

Perhaps there are talented, honest people in Fianna Failure - but I'm ****ed if I can name one.

enda1

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Here's a clue to the level of nepotism: the three top Fianna Failure politicians - Clowen, Comical Lenny, Sweary Mary (Taoiseach, Min Fin, Tanaiste) - all all the sons/daughters of former TDs. Perhaps this is a sign that political genius runs in families? Or, based on what we've seen from Fianna Failure in the last 5 or 10 years, perhaps it's more a sign of the endemic corruption and nepotism that exists in the party.

Perhaps there are talented, honest people in Fianna Failure - but I'm ****ed if I can name one.

And how does that limit your ability to join the party?

Monty Burnz

enda1 wrote: »

And how does that limit your ability to join the party?

I'm sure you can join - just don't expect to get anywhere or wield any influence when you do. If you are honest and want to do some good for others (rather than yourself, your cronies or whoever is giving you brown envelopes) you might as well join the Legion of Mary.

steddyeddy

enda1 wrote: »

Do your own research, I'm sure as hell not gonna.

What has nepotism got to do with your ability or lack of to join a political party pray tell?

In IRL the 4most important political positions are filled by children of national politicians. In UK it's 0, in US it's 1.


I dont have to do the research its as plain as day. Now as regards to the effect of a party comprised of family and friends, it increases the chances of putting a close relative or friend in a posistion of power. That wont maximise the chances of a politician being placed in a position of power soley on merit.

If you want an instance of this look at say...Ireland for example,our last Taoiseach resinged amid corruption charges, the imf were in and it was
easier to get planning permission on this small island than it was in england. Basically if daddy were in a position of power in a political party it would make it substanstially easier to rise through the ranks. Its easy enough to enter fianna fail but those with the most power were family freinds ect.

In case you ask whats wrong with that read the paper and you'll see exactly were it got us.