Fintan O'Toole's Petition for Political reform now live!!

flynnlives

As a citizen of Ireland, I believe our existing political culture and institutions have failed to protect the public interest and the common good. I will not vote for any candidate who is not committed to radical reform, including (though not confined to) the following ten measures:
1. SHARE THE PAIN
No one paid from the public purse should earn more than €100,000 during the period of the emergency.
2. PUT THE PARISH PUMP BACK IN THE PARISH
Real local democracy, paid for by local taxes, and using direct democracy at every level, must be established.
3. END CLIENTILISM
Change the electoral system that turns TDs into constituency fixers. Replace it with a mix of direct election and a list system similar to that used for the Scottish parliament.
4. CUT THE FAT
Reduce the Dail to 100 members. Either transform the Senate within 12 months into a genuine forum for civic society or abolish it.
5. MAKE PARLIAMENT WORK.
Stop the use of the guillotine system to pass laws that have not been scrutinised. Give Dail committees the powers to examine proposals for spending before it happens and to hold those who spend public money accountable. Make senior public servants responsible for their decisions and actions.
6. BRING WOMEN INTO POLITICS
Cut public subsidies to political parties unless at least 30 per cent of their candidates are female.
7. END IMPUNITY
Conduct an urgent review of company law to ensure that white collar criminals are brought to justice.
8. GET MONEY OUT OF POLITICS
Ban all significant private donations to political parties. Make parties publish annual accounts. Register and control lobbyists. Protect whistleblowers.
9. RESTORE THE RIGHT TO KNOW
Bring back the original Freedom of Information Act.
10. NO MORE CRONYISM
Make all appointments to State and public bodies open to public competition and Dail scrutiny. Ban any individual from being a director of more than three companies or public bodies.

If you agree go here http://fintanotoole.ie/petition/
and sign it.

I know it on its own cant bring instant change but if it gets a ground swell of support it could work.
If enough people sign it, it may be a catalyst for badly needed change in this country.

This country badly needs a political system that works for everyone and not rife with cronyism and nepotism and nonsensical civil war politics. If anything the current system has directly lead to the current terrible situation.

So read the petition and if you agree, sign it!
Simple!

Saadyst

In before the pedants, begrudgers, fintan-bashers, and the "we're never happy with anything" brigade

Dionysus

Excellent. Thanks for posting this. I was just saying in another thread a moment ago that he spoke with great conviction last Saturday. Signed.

I particularly support his call to change the electoral system/end clientalism. And I'd favour abolishing the Seanad.

Snakeblood

flynnlives wrote: »

If you agree go here http://fintanotoole.ie/petition/
and sign it.

I know it on its on cant bring instant change but if it gets a ground swell of support it could work.
If enough people sign it, it may be a catalyst for badly needed change in this country.

This country badly needs a political system that works for everyone and not rife with cronyism and nepotism and nonsenical civil war politics. If anything the current system has directly lead to the current terrible situation.

So read the petition and if you agree, sign it!
Simple!

Signed. I agree with everything, which is rare in one of these things. He must be right so!

mikemac

2. PUT THE PARISH PUMP BACK IN THE PARISH
Real local democracy, paid for by local taxes, and using direct democracy at every level, must be established.

Local taxes. Does he mean reintroduce domestic rates?
As now, businesses pay but households pay nothing. Councils are short of funding so no wonder they approve developments to get the levies.
This looks like more taxation to me

6. BRING WOMEN INTO POLITICS
Cut public subsidies to political parties unless at least 30 per cent of their candidates are female.

The Táinste is female, that's high office
If the candidates are good enough, they don't need more support

pretty*monster

feelingstressed wrote: »

The Táinste is female, that's high office
If the candidates are good enough, they don't need more support

O'Toole only demands that there be female candidates, not that we elect them. The voters aren't afforded the opportunity to voice their opinion of the female candidates if they're not on the ballot.

themadhair

Signed. Pretty simple list which would greatly help if implemented.

mikemac

pretty*monster wrote: »

O'Toole only demands that there be female candidates, not that we elect them. The voters aren't afforded the opportunity to voice their opinion of the female candidates if they're not on the ballot.

A party is in the business of winning seats. They have a chairman, committees and a nationwide cumann system to support this.

If a candidate is good enough they will be selected by the selection committee

That's what I meant.
The best go forward to the ballot, not token candidates if they fail to find the numbers

stupidusername

I agree with encouraging more women into politics, but forcing it is stupid, as the intelligence of these won't be considered at all, women will just be thrown in left right and centre. No point in having token members.

The biggest thing the people can do now is petition for government wage cuts and expenses and pensions, as well as the top bankers wage cuts. Minimum wage is being brought down cause it's not inline with the rest of europe, well neither is the pay of the ministers. And the amount that the top bankers get paid is ridiculous. Never mind protesting against the 4 year plan, that's going to go through either way, but we deserve to be respected enough to have ministers take at least a 40% pay cut, to 'suffer' along with us.

Saadyst

feelingstressed wrote: »

A party is in the business of winning seats. They have a chairman, committees and a nationwide cumann system to support this.

If a candidate is good enough they will be selected by the selection committee

That's what I meant.
The best go forward to the ballot, not token candidates if they fail to find the numbers

Do you think it's the case then that there are no suitable women that can be fielded at all? Or no suitable women that are interested?

Duggy747

Only ooooooooooooooone thing missing from that:

11. SUGARY HEAVEN
Free donuts for all, every day to help bring up the moral of the citizens..............no donuts for ministers or top bankers

Other than that I don't see much wrong with it.

mikemac

Saadyst wrote: »

Do you think it's the case then that there are no suitable women that can be fielded at all? Or no suitable women that are interested?

I would think they are lots of good female candidates but maybe they don't push themselves forward enough

They need encouragement maybe.
Bertie Ahern to be fair promoted many to junior minister level if they made it to the second term. That was his rule

I don't want to see case where a party has 25% female candidates and the chairman screams, quick we need more, anyone will do

General Zod

basically forcing a % of female candidates will simply mean parties will put up females in unwinnable constituencies for the party.

Saadyst

feelingstressed wrote: »

I would think they are lots of good female candidates but maybe they don't push themselves forward enough

They need encouragement maybe.
Bertie Ahern to be fair promoted many to junior minister level

I don't want to see case where a party has 25% female candidates and the chairman screams, quick we need more, anyone will do

Definitely not. But I'd say if it's the case where there is an abnormally low number, that it must be looked at to be encouraged or the system changed (if the system is the problem). I guess pushing it more toward having politics representative of the people that live in it (i.e. not 9 men to every one woman).

Johro

flynnlives wrote: »

If you agree go here http://fintanotoole.ie/petition/
and sign it.

I know it on its on cant bring instant change but if it gets a ground swell of support it could work.
If enough people sign it, it may be a catalyst for badly needed change in this country.

This country badly needs a political system that works for everyone and not rife with cronyism and nepotism and nonsenical civil war politics. If anything the current system has directly lead to the current terrible situation.

So read the petition and if you agree, sign it!
Simple!

Just a couple of things: 6. BRING WOMEN INTO POLITICS
Cut public subsidies to political parties unless at least 30 per cent of their candidates are female. 30 % is not enough as half the population is female.

Make all appointments to State and public bodies open to public competition and Dail scrutiny. Ban any individual from being a director of more than three companies or public bodies. Three?? Surely one is more than enough.
Having said that, I'll sign it.
And the government will ignore it.

thebigbiffo

signed...not because it's perfect, but because we need some change and this could be at least a place to start.

skywalker

feelingstressed wrote: »

Local taxes. Does he mean reintroduce domestic rates?
As now, businesses pay but households pay nothing. Councils are short of funding so no wonder they approve developments to get the levies.
This looks like more taxation to me



The Táinste is female, that's high office
If the candidates are good enough, they don't need more support

Agreed.
Those are the only 2 points Id really have any issue with, the rest I agree with.

prinz

Agree with most of it. Except for..

Number 6: quotas for women or anyone else. Best man or woman for the job full stop, and

Number 10: Many entrepreneurs etc set up small companies from scratch and build employment and revenue from that, and they retain an interest by being a Director of these companies. I would agree a cap on number of possible directorships of companies with a state-shareholding however.

flynnlives

In relation to no.10 i think he means to end political appointees and union bosses on boards of various state and semi-state companies such as DAA, Central Bank etc.

Also he wants our taxes to ring fenced for local gov. not have more/increased taxes.

marco_polo

Against all expectations I had before I opened the thread, I agree more than enough with his main points to sign up, leaving a few minor quibbles aside.

Cavehill Red

He was doing so well until the anti-meritocratic proposal of gender quotas.

If it weren't for that, I'd have signed it and quite a few others too, I suspect.

flynnlives

Cavehill Red wrote: »

He was doing so well until the anti-meritocratic proposal of gender quotas.

If it weren't for that, I'd have signed it and quite a few others too, I suspect.

Your not signing it into law FFS!!

All of the points he has made are what one would broadly expect from the modern civilised society.
As i said already its not perfect but its a step in the right direction.

If you agree with the direction then sign it.
There is no need to get bogged down in the snytax of it all just yet!!

mikemac

flynnlives wrote: »

There is no need to get bogged down in the snytax of it all just yet!!

It is a good first step

But many won't sign it unless they agree with all ten

starbelgrade

It's not a perfect list.

It may well & probably will be ignored by those in power.

But in the time it takes you to complain about it or finding reason not to sign up, you could already have it signed.

Cavehill Red

flynnlives wrote: »

Your not signing it into law FFS!!

All of the points he has made are what one would broadly expect from the modern civilised society.
As i said already its not perfect but its a step in the right direction.

If you agree with the direction then sign it.
There is no need to get bogged down in the snytax of it all just yet!!

Sorry, no. I'm not endorsing an anti-meritocratic move like quotas for gender, or indeed for religion, sexuality or anything else. A signature implies endorsement of the whole deal, and I'm vehemently opposed to any system designed to circumvent the principle of putting the best candidates forward for election.

prinz

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Sorry, no. I'm not endorsing an anti-meritocratic move like quotas for gender, or indeed for religion, sexuality or anything else..

+1

Indeed, it's the perfect recipe for replacing one form of croneyism with another.

Caoimhín

Internet forums and petitions wont work.
Moaning wont work.
Marching wont work.
More money wont work.
Outside help wont work.
Hard work wont work.

TheZohanS

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's not a perfect list.

It may well & probably will be ignored by those in power.

But in the time it takes you to complain about it or finding reason not to sign up, you could already have it signed.

That's the worst reason I've ever heard to sign a petition...

starbelgrade

TheZohan wrote: »

That's the worst reason I've ever heard to sign a petition...

It would be, if it was a reason to sign up.

But it clearly wasn't.

sensibleken

I dont agree with everything on the list but ill sign it anyway. We need reform now! we can deal with the specifics afterward.

Elevator

signed even with reservations against gender specifics

sensibleken

Caoimhín wrote: »

Internet forums and petitions wont work.
Moaning wont work.
Marching wont work.
More money wont work.
Outside help wont work.
Hard work wont work.

Suggestions then?

prinz

sensibleken wrote: »

I dont agree with everything on the list but ill sign it anyway. We need reform now! we can deal with the specifics afterward.

Or to put it another way.... A Lot Done, More To Do. Now where have I heard that before..

TheZohanS

sensibleken wrote: »

Suggestions then?

Burn stuff down...

My name is URL

I don't agree with much of what he has in mind, but big reforms are needed and that's enough to make me want to sign the petition. Maybe it won't achieve anything, but it has a better chance of doing so than repeatedly trotting out the line that nothing can be changed.

PKen

1. SHARE THE PAIN
"No one paid from the public purse should earn more than €100,000 during the period of the emergency".
Fintan O'Toole seems to think, that anyone earning up to €100,000 is on a moderate income. Why not cap it, at €50,000? What could they do? - go to the Private Sector? They'd probably be paid less there.

4. CUT THE FAT
"Reduce the Dail to 100 members. Either transform the Senate within 12 months into a genuine forum for civic society or abolish it".
No mention of our bloated Public Sector. He always makes a distinction between our Elected Representatives and the Civil Service in general. Are they not both part of the problem?

7. END IMPUNITY
"Conduct an urgent review of company law to ensure that white collar criminals are brought to justice".
What does he mean by "white collar criminals"? Why not include Union bosses like Jack O'Connor (Siptu)? After all, he and David Begg (ICTU) contributed to our deficit, with the silly pay increases during Benchmarking.

10. NO MORE CRONYISM
"Make all appointments to State and public bodies open to public competition and Dail scrutiny. Ban any individual from being a director of more than three companies or public bodies".
The same "Infected" Civil Service will oversee who gets the jobs. Does he nievely believe that our Political Masters and the Civil Service are not part of the same "Clique"?

Cavehill Red

PKen wrote: »

1. SHARE THE PAIN
"No one paid from the public purse should earn more than €100,000 during the period of the emergency".
Fintan O'Toole seems to think, that anyone earning up to €100,000 is on a moderate income. Why not cap it, at €50,000? What could they do? - go to the Private Sector? They'd probably be paid less there.

Of course he thinks it's moderate. He's on nearly 90 himself.

PKen wrote: »

4. CUT THE FAT
"Reduce the Dail to 100 members. Either transform the Senate within 12 months into a genuine forum for civic society or abolish it".
No mention of our bloated Public Sector. He always makes a distinction between our Elected Representatives and the Civil Service in general. Are they not both part of the problem?

Both causing the deficit, yes. But Fintan's not the man to propose cuts in the PS.

PKen wrote: »

7. END IMPUNITY
"Conduct an urgent review of company law to ensure that white collar criminals are brought to justice".
What does he mean by "white collar criminals"? Why not include Union bosses like Jack O'Connor (Siptu)? After all, he and David Begg (ICTU) contributed to our deficit, with the silly pay increases during Benchmarking.

In fairness, Fintan O'Toole wasn't sitting around the table cutting the benchmarking deal. I'd like to see benchmarking 2, where they bring PS sector pay back DOWN to match private sector wages.

PKen wrote: »

10. NO MORE CRONYISM
"Make all appointments to State and public bodies open to public competition and Dail scrutiny. Ban any individual from being a director of more than three companies or public bodies".
The same "Infected" Civil Service will oversee who gets the jobs. Does he nievely believe that our Political Masters and the Civil Service are not part of the same "Clique"?

I'm more concerned about the limit of three. Why not one? Let's end the multiple sinecures entirely.

Mrmoe

Its a start but there are definite elements that need improvement.

2. PUT THE PARISH PUMP BACK IN THE PARISH
Real local democracy, paid for by local taxes, and using direct democracy at every level, must be established.

Isn't this the purpose of the local county and city councils. The only problem is they are incompetent and are generally based on outdated constituency areas.

3. END CLIENTILISM
Change the electoral system that turns TDs into constituency fixers. Replace it with a mix of direct election and a list system similar to that used for the Scottish parliament.
4. CUT THE FAT
Reduce the Dail to 100 members. Either transform the Senate within 12 months into a genuine forum for civic society or abolish it.
5. MAKE PARLIAMENT WORK.
Stop the use of the guillotine system to pass laws that have not been scrutinised. Give Dail committees the powers to examine proposals for spending before it happens and to hold those who spend public money accountable. Make senior public servants responsible for their decisions and actions.
6. BRING WOMEN INTO POLITICS
Cut public subsidies to political parties unless at least 30 per cent of their candidates are female.

Make it compulsory to vote. This will make sure that people no longer have the feeble excuse that we do not get the government we deserve. It will give power back to the people and away from special interest groups such as old age pensioners and public service employees. There should be no quotas for female politicians. You only have to look at the current crop of female politicians to show the caliber of this group. It is nothing special.

7. END IMPUNITY
Conduct an urgent review of company law to ensure that white collar criminals are brought to justice.
8. GET MONEY OUT OF POLITICS
Ban all significant private donations to political parties. Make parties publish annual accounts. Register and control lobbyists. Protect whistleblowers.
9. RESTORE THE RIGHT TO KNOW
Bring back the original Freedom of Information Act.
10. NO MORE CRONYISM
Make all appointments to State and public bodies open to public competition and Dail scrutiny. Ban any individual from being a director of more than three companies or public bodies.

More information should be made public including the salaries and wages of all public sector workers.

kincsem

12. END POLITICAL DYNASTIES
Ban family members from standing in the SAME constituency that other family members represented.

Dail seats are not owned by families.

Sanjuro

feelingstressed wrote: »

Fintan O'Toole getting himself in the news?
The same week as he launches his new book?

I'll say no more

Good.

Everybody self-promotes. Somebody who doesn't self-promote their own work is an idiot.

flynnlives

feelingstressed wrote: »

Fintan O'Toole getting himself in the news?
The same week as he launches his new book?

I'll say no more

Brian Cowen selling out Ireland to pay the private debts of speculators?
The same week Barry Andrews tells the public "to have some humility"?

I'll say no more

The_Minister

sensibleken wrote: »

I dont agree with everything on the list but ill sign it anyway. We need reform now! we can deal with the specifics afterward.

This sentiment makes me want to cry.:(

Fluorescence

As stated earlier in the thread, this petition isn't perfect, but we have to start somewhere. This petition has many good points (some which can be taken much further later down the line) and the only let down is the gender quota. The most capable person should get the job, not the person who fits a preconceived mold best. That said, if some real reform was made to the political system, more women might become interested in politics anyway on its own merit.

jimmycrackcorm

6. BRING WOMEN INTO POLITICS
Cut public subsidies to political parties unless at least 30 per cent of their candidates are female.

That's all we need - force us to have a bunch of women objecting to laws one week a month because of pms.

muffy

Caoimhín wrote: »

Internet forums and petitions wont work.
Moaning wont work.
Marching wont work.
More money wont work.
Outside help wont work.
Hard work wont work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izVMXWOfwkk

Nephew

6. BRING WOMEN INTO POLITICS
Cut public subsidies to political parties unless at least 30 per cent of their candidates are female.

Tbh affirmative action is a stupid idea. What's the point in sacrificing more qualified candidates for the sake of minorities. If you're not good enough, stop moaning and choose a different career. I couldn't give a toss if the whole cabinet were black, from Cavan or sexbots as long as they're genuinely the best the country has to offer.

muffy

Nephew wrote: »

Tbh affirmative action is a stupid idea. What's the point in sacrificing more qualified candidates for the sake of minorities. If you're not good enough, stop moaning and choose a different career. I couldn't give a toss if the whole cabinet were black, from Cavan or sexbots as long as they're genuinely the best the country has to offer.

LOL women aren't a minority!

steddyeddy

kincsem wrote: »

Dail seats are not owned by families.

But its made easier for a family member to enter a corrupt party like fianna fail

flynnlives

Almost 3,000 signatures in nine hours!!

Pretty good considering he has yet to start publising it properly.

Maybe this could gain momentum!!

enda1

What a pile of shit.

Its anti constitutional (direct democracy), sexist (gender quota), socialist (€100k cap) rubbish.

enda1

steddyeddy wrote: »

But its made easier for a family member to enter a corrupt party like fianna fail

Everyone can enter Fianna Fáil.

Here you go.