It is beginning to grate

Empire o de Sun

jb-ski wrote: »

The Germans were more interested in our fantastic economy etc..........

Stimmt

Fuinseog

jb-ski wrote: »

IMO, this is getting close to explaining the differences in our sense of humour. it's really hard to pin down though.
German teenagers seem to take the piss out of each other, & often a lot more creatively than Irish/British mono-syllabic teens.



This is interesting. My experience would be different, in over 21 years of visiting/living in Germany, this would rarely have been mentioned to me.
Possibly on occasion in the early 90's, but certainly not in the last 10 years.

The Germans were more interested in our fantastic economy etc..........
which brings us right back to original post

sense of humour is different in every culture. if anything the Germans do not get on their high horse as quickly as the Irish do.
I lived over there before we had a Wirschaftswunder and only hung out with the natives.

Fuinseog

The Germans are fools. For decades they strove towards a strong united europe and let countries join such as the UK who only joined to combat it and ireland to milk it.
it was nice to see where their money was been spent. i wonder would we bail the Germans out if the out if the boot was on the other leg. methinks not.


its odd, but we are heavily dependent on the Germans, especially in areas such as tourism, yet areas such as Kerry that exist only because of tourism are extremely anti EU.

Frisian

The Germans are fools. For decades they strove towards a strong united europe and let countries join such as the UK who only joined to combat it and ireland to milk it.
it was nice to see where their money was been spent. i wonder would we bail the Germans out if the out if the boot was on the other leg. methinks not.


its odd, but we are heavily dependent on the Germans, especially in areas such as tourism, yet areas such as Kerry that exist only because of tourism are extremely anti EU.

Fair points.
I couldn't agree more.

axer

Yes, I really hate the constant nazi references. What I normally do when people make stupid "jokes" like those is give them a quick history lesson on what my east german girlfriend's grandmother and other germans had to put up with during the war and what her parents/family put up with for 40 years afterwards even though they were not even alive during the war but yet they are being called nazis after suffering so much because of the nazis. This usually dampens the mood for a short while and makes the "joker" feel like a twat in front of everyone.

liah

axer wrote: »

Yes, I really hate the constant nazi references. What I normally do when people make stupid "jokes" like those is give them a quick history lesson on what my east german girlfriend's grandmother and other germans had to put up with during the war and what her parents/family put up with for 40 years afterwards even though they were not even alive during the war but yet they are being called nazis after suffering so much because of the nazis. This usually dampens the mood for a short while and makes the "joker" feel like a twat in front of everyone.

This is kiiiinda what I was talking about in my post..

axer

liah wrote: »

This is kiiiinda what I was talking about in my post..

The whole german-nazi joke is old. People who still make them should feel like twats.

liah

axer wrote: »

The whole german-nazi joke is old. People who still make them should feel like twats.

It's also really old to meet someone and to be met with a chorus of "Blame Canada" or accused of being America's hat or accused of being pussies or any other amount of completely stupid crap that's been worn into the ground. Or as a woman to be told to get back into the kitchen, or make a sandwich, or again, any other amount of completely stupid crap that's been worn into the ground.

Doesn't mean it warrants a history lesson or an attempt to put someone in their place. They're jokes, some are funny, some aren't, but you just gotta let it go and pick your battles and recognize when malice is actually intended and when it's not.

If someone makes a bad nazi joke and you can tell that they actually mean that they genuinely believe you're a nazi, fine, the anger is justified-- but I have not once heard anyone genuinely accuse a german of being a nazi, yet many, many, many times seen germans flip their lids and do as you do and go on a big history spiel or a rant on how much they hate nazis in general.

Do you see what I'm trying to get at? I really would worry less about the words used and worry more about the intent. If the intent's there, fire away. If it's not.. just let it go. What else can you do?

If you fight every single nazi joke you're never going to have time for any fun and everyone will be constantly afraid to crack a joke around you. Do you want that?

axer

I don't find condescending jokes funny so I don't miss people not making those type of jokes around me. I have no problem with non condescending nazi jokes but suggesting a german is a nazi because they are german i dont tolerate as it is completely condescending.

alois

liah wrote: »

It's also really old to meet someone and to be met with a chorus of "Blame Canada" or accused of being America's hat or accused of being pussies or any other amount of completely stupid crap that's been worn into the ground. Or as a woman to be told to get back into the kitchen, or make a sandwich, or again, any other amount of completely stupid crap that's been worn into the ground.

Doesn't mean it warrants a history lesson or an attempt to put someone in their place. They're jokes, some are funny, some aren't, but you just gotta let it go and pick your battles and recognize when malice is actually intended and when it's not.

If someone makes a bad nazi joke and you can tell that they actually mean that they genuinely believe you're a nazi, fine, the anger is justified-- but I have not once heard anyone genuinely accuse a german of being a nazi, yet many, many, many times seen germans flip their lids and do as you do and go on a big history spiel or a rant on how much they hate nazis in general.

Do you see what I'm trying to get at? I really would worry less about the words used and worry more about the intent. If the intent's there, fire away. If it's not.. just let it go. What else can you do?

If you fight every single nazi joke you're never going to have time for any fun and everyone will be constantly afraid to crack a joke around you. Do you want that?

i think you're being unfair, one cannot grow up German and not be imbued with some sense of guilt for the absolute tragedy. there's a huge difference between the weight that the word Nazi carries to a nationality being joked about due to being pacifist/drinking a lot.

we need to recognise that most germans know a hell of a lot more about the Holocaust than a lot of Irish; and some have to deal with what their own relatives did. Not only do they want to distance themselves from Germany's past acts, they're constantly seeking to reinvent Germany's image abroad - all entirely understandable.
As is the annoyance at seeing oneself being labelled a brutal murderer.

peasant

alois wrote: »

i think you're being unfair, one cannot grow up German and not be imbued with some sense of guilt for the absolute tragedy. there's a huge difference between the weight that the word Nazi carries to a nationality being joked about due to being pacifist/drinking a lot.

Even if you don't feel guilty (we're now into the third or fourth post-war generation) ...it just fails miserably at being even remotely funny.

There are so many other splendid German stereotypes to play with (Ordnungsliebe, Sauberkeitsfimmel, vorauseilender Gehorsam, etc) but nope ...it always has to be the fella with the funny tache and strange hairstyle.

axer

alois wrote: »

and some have to deal with what their own relatives did.

and not just that, there were a huge number of German victims in the war - completely innocent victims.

Fuinseog

axer wrote: »

The whole german-nazi joke is old. People who still make them should feel like twats.

its interesting that in a school setting kids shouting sieg heil and the like is still entertained. if grown ups do not tell the kids why that is wrong, where are they supposed to learn?

Fuinseog

axer wrote: »

and not just that, there were a huge number of German victims in the war - completely innocent victims.

'jerry started the war' is the counter argument that is oft quoted.

are the Germans themselves obsessesed with lecturing us on the war? check out Jurgen the German on youtube

axer

Fuinseog wrote: »

its interesting that in a school setting kids shouting sieg heil and the like is still entertained. if grown ups do not tell the kids why that is wrong, where are they supposed to learn?

Where is it tolerated?

alois

axer wrote: »

Where is it tolerated?

i'd imagine fuinseog meant irish schools. teachers generally ignore that kind of stuff...

EGAR

alois wrote: »

i think you're being unfair, one cannot grow up German and not be imbued with some sense of guilt for the absolute tragedy. there's a huge difference between the weight that the word Nazi carries to a nationality being joked about due to being pacifist/drinking a lot.

we need to recognise that most germans know a hell of a lot more about the Holocaust than a lot of Irish; and some have to deal with what their own relatives did. Not only do they want to distance themselves from Germany's past acts, they're constantly seeking to reinvent Germany's image abroad - all entirely understandable.
As is the annoyance at seeing oneself being labelled a brutal murderer.

Sorry but I do not believe in the whole collective guilt trip and so I am not imbued with any sort of guilt and never will be. Nor do I represent Germany abroad, I am me, simple as.

Although I had to laugh when the Pope got elected and people around here felt it necessary to congratulate me on the fact . Even funnier when a real old lady congratulated me in the local shop and then whispered to her husband: "At least the Pope isn't English!".

Carry

Sorry, EGAR, it' not as simple as that.

The collective guilt does exist, it's implanted in German education and it's implanted in the way other peoples want to see you. And it's still implanted through media.
Germans are still struggling to prove themselves NOT to be Nazis in the eyes of other nations. Not individually, though.
Not that easy, because Hitler is by now part of some kind of pop culture - the moustache, the hairstile, the speach - Charlie Chaplin saw to it, as did the British and even Monty Python, among others.

Germans seem to be defined by the biggest impact their nation has made in history. Same as Russia with Stalin who ist part of pop culture, too. Same as Ireland, who tries desperately to be seen as a nation which never caused a war and was always fighting for independence. The poor Paddies, the loveable rogues. - You see what myths brought you to...
I disgress.

What I meant: Nobody can escape national prejudices. Even if you are from a younger generation who has nothing to do with the past.

I remember the first encounter with such pop culture prejudices, namely my very first boyfriend on the emerald isle. Once I asked him to tidy up the mess he caused in MY home, he promised, as Irish men do, never did, as Irish men do, I reminded him, he called me a concentration camp warden, because he was too busy with listening to some show on the 'wireless' which was about slagging off the Germans and couldn't be arsed to contribute to the household ...

Fine, ye Oirish heroes. If you call me a 'Nazi', I'll be one, if it comes to mess up my place and my space, and if it means to get things done.




But be aware that no German woman (or man) can ever be such a Nazi as an Irish mammy!

You're lucky to have us ...:D

alois

well in fairness the last time an english pope was elected, it did not do ireland any favours:)

Fuinseog

alois wrote: »

i'd imagine fuinseog meant irish schools. teachers generally ignore that kind of stuff...

genau. they would however be less inclined to ignore anti black comments.

Fuinseog

EGAR wrote: »

Sorry but I do not believe in the whole collective guilt trip and so I am not imbued with any sort of guilt and never will be. Nor do I represent Germany abroad, I am me, simple as.

Although I had to laugh when the Pope got elected and people around here felt it necessary to congratulate me on the fact . Even funnier when a real old lady congratulated me in the local shop and then whispered to her husband: "At least the Pope isn't English!".

the collective guilt trip is laughable as seen in the Harry Enfield clip.

its slowly becoming okay to be proud of Germany. no other country in europe has doen as much as the germans to promote stability in europe.

The German Pope issue was one where we let ourselves down and had to listen to Dave Norris whine about him being anti gay and a nazi.

EGAR

Carry wrote: »

Sorry, EGAR, it' not as simple as that.

Yes, it is - for me. I am neither proud of nor disappointed with being German. I am simply me and I don't give two figs about what other peeps think I might be.

And I am not exactly from a younger generation either .

I don't buy into stereotypes not do I represent one. We are all individuals no matter what your passport says.

Lawrence1895

I just joined this board 2 day ago, and now I stumbled over this thread


It was six years ago last September when I moved to Ireland from Germany, and there were good times and bad times...but I guess, that is not unusual.

Throughout all the years, the same stereotypes about us Germans...we build great cars, the Oktoberfest is something you must see, our beer is kind of nice, football teams from Germany are well known...and we had Hitler :mad:

Well...decades passed since he kicked the bucket, Germany paid the price for 12 years of shame, I think, it is time to look forward.

Of course, there are some twits in Germany who want Hitler and his gang back rather sooner than later, but it's only a small minority...and they were not even born when the NSDAP was in power.

But still, one thing really makes me sad...people blaming the 'Blacks and Romanians' for the recession.
Come on, do you really have to go down this track? Maybe it's only a few people who think like that...I really hope it is...

Carry

EGAR wrote: »

Yes, it is - for me. I am neither proud of nor disappointed with being German. I am simply me and I don't give two figs about what other peeps think I might be.

And I am not exactly from a younger generation either .

I don't buy into stereotypes not do I represent one. We are all individuals no matter what your passport says.

Lucky you, if you get away with it.
But it's not about being proud, or unproud, of your nationality, it's about how the Irish choose to see you as a German.

Sure, I don't give a sugar either about my nationality. Travelled too much in my life.
But I'm still German, if I like it or not, and that's the way people see and often judge us. That's the way it is.

As my local mechanic recently said, the best mechanic in the world by the way, after my car broke down in the snow in the middle of nowhere. "What I don't understand is why you, as a German, drive a bloody French car. And as a German you should be intelligent enough to know to put coolant into your cooling system!"

Yeah, funny, innit? And rather admiring of the assumed German intelligence and ingenuity. Not mine though in this incident, obviously...

Still, it shows that there is a perception of Germanness, in a good and a bad way. Usually in a funny way, quite often in that misconceived historical way, but rarely in an individual way.
You might be as lovely as possible, but you are still German. Full stop.

And you do know, that your are still the German dog woman, not any woman who looks after dogs over here? As in "ah shure, the Germans love their animals, god help them". I don't live that far away from you, so I know what I'm talking about...

I don't mind being identified as the one who I am, and I'm German. Can't help it. Don't care, really.

But I do mind if some tools file me in as a Nazi, only because they don't know any better.

And no, I won't educate them. It's pointless.

EGAR

Ahm, Carrie, that is basically what my post said... I use Occam's Razor as I am too lazy to type a lot.

Yeah, I may be the German dogwoman but poor old **** who lives down the road from me for the past 40 years is still the *Offaly man* etc pp.

You must all know very strange people as I've never had any experiences like you mentioned and I am here 14 years.

Carry

EGAR wrote: »

You must all know very strange people as I've never had any experiences like you mentioned and I am here 14 years.

Me, too, that is 14 years. But I didn't only live in the West, got around in Ireland a bit. More chances to meet strange people.

And yes, I have a penchant for oddballs and odd situations and attract trouble and troublesome people (especially boyfriends)... :rolleyes: ...and provoke otherweise perfectly polite people to let rip...:D
But hey, that makes life interesting and usually get's to the bone!

And sorry, Occam's Razor isn't actually my thing. I like it complicated, multilayered, contrary and controversal - and rambling.

And since you mentioned it - and I'm at it:
There is a family in my village who's ancestors moved (or were moved) from Dublin about 400 years ago to this place. They are still called "the Dubliners". There are other age old grudges and prejudices which still have repercussions until today.

So maybe it's no wonder that Germans are still seen as Nazis?
Did anyone ever told them about the German Peasants Revolt in the 16th century? (no, not you, dear mod! You wouldn't, would you?)

Maybe with their strange affinity to the past the Irish might eventually learn that the Germans are the true revolutionaries - as long as nobody tells them about the failures.
That might teach them, that we are no Nazis at all!

Rambling again, can't help it.

EGAR

Carry wrote: »

And yes, I have a penchant for oddballs and odd situations and attract trouble and troublesome people (especially boyfriends)... :rolleyes: ...and provoke otherweise perfectly polite people to let rip...:D

Me too on all counts - comes with the territory especially the latter. The "worst" comment ever re my nationality was being called *German Shepherd* but they have since revised it and call me *Judge Judy* instead - I think I can live with that quite comfortably .

prinz

Yes and no. To start off I am Irish but a Germanophile (?) and my wife is German.

There is a definite stereotype of the the dour, serious, humourless German who just wants control etc in Ireland that does get tiresome. However it is slowly beginning to change. For instance Germany would never have been considered as a holiday destination by friends etc, but I have brought groups to Germany twice now and they have left both times with very positive impressions and some of the lads are looking to go back such was the fun on a weekend beer break, meeting, friendly, easy-going cheerful people, having the craic in a couple of micro breweries etc.

There is however a definite under-current of late along the lines of the Germans are 'taking control', buying Ireland, starting a fourth Reich etc that also gets on my tits. Have gotten a lot of this from taxi drivers as it happens. Then they ask my wife 'where are you from?'.....Answer Germany...awkward silence. On the other hand my wife has been asked numerous times if the attitude towards Ireland was negative in Germany due to the bail-out/and has been apologised to etc by people genuinely afraid that the reputation of Ireland has damaged in Germany.

On the other topic - the war. Tbh I am married to a German now because I once told the old joke about my great grandfather falling from his watchtower in a group of mixed nationalities. Only one person seemed to find it in any way funny and now I am married to her. She was also the only German present ironically enough. Personally, the best weapon I see against the Hitlers of this world is to laugh at them, thereby robbing them of their power even decades after death. "The war" as a topic of conversation still hides under the surface constantly, and as someone mentioned Fawlty Towers earlier that episode was a perfect parody of the British obsession with all things Third Reich.

Back to present day. Yes the stereotype Prussianlike German is alive and well and tolerated in this country. However when I have been to Germany, as has also been mentioned in this thread, the German obsession with the IRA etc has also often been apparent. I have been asked questions ranging from 'What do you think of the IRA?' to 'Could you get me some IRA memorabilia?' to 'Do you think the IRA didn't kill enough Brits?' That gets equally as grating. It is expected that I have some sort of anti-British axe to grind, and people have gone away disappointed when I deflect such nonsense. This seems to be tied into the anti-facist culture though, in the same way that the Baader-Meinhof's explained away their actions as fighting the 'system'/oppressor/neo-fascist state etc. There is almost a desire to always trump for the 'little guy' now, no matter the cost. On one occassion having gotten tired of the constant pro-IRA stance of some Germans I told a story... about armed men kicking in your door in the middle of the night on some trumped up 'charges' of offences against the people or other crap, taking you from your family off into the dark night, never to be seen by them again, and being tried and executed in secret... they assumed I was referring to the Gestapo.... I told them I was referring to the Provos and Jean McConville and before long the pro-IRA stance was considerably softened. There are some who equate the likes of the IRA and the White Rose and other Resistance groups when nothing could be further from the truth. So yeah, perhaps when the Germans here are back in Germany they could make it known that not all Irish people are harbouring anti-English resentment.

The other one is that Irish people are irrepressible drunks, not the brightest, no work ethic and generally incapable. That attitude seems to prevail in Germany too I have noticed. So we're not all that different. National steroetypes exist. We must deal with it.

As for going back to the current German jokes these days, it's best to take it in your stride as it is usually meant in a light-hearted way tbh. Any I come across I pass along to my wife and she gets a chuckle at them too, usually if they portray the Prussian stereotype......perhaps it's because she's a Rhinelander though 'we're different' or so she says.

SteeveeDee

prinz wrote: »

Back to present day. Yes the stereotype Prussianlike German is alive and well and tolerated in this country. However when I have been to Germany, as has also been mentioned in this thread, the German obsession with the IRA etc has also often been apparent. I have been asked questions ranging from 'What do you think of the IRA?' to 'Could you get me some IRA memorabilia?' to 'Do you think the IRA didn't kill enough Brits?' That gets equally as grating. It is expected that I have some sort of anti-British axe to grind, and people have gone away disappointed when I deflect such nonsense. This seems to be tied into the anti-facist culture though, in the same way that the Baader-Meinhof's explained away their actions as fighting the 'system'/oppressor/neo-fascist state etc. There is almost a desire to always trump for the 'little guy' now, no matter the cost. On one occassion having gotten tired of the constant pro-IRA stance of some Germans I told a story... about armed men kicking in your door in the middle of the night on some trumped up 'charges' of offences against the people or other crap, taking you from your family off into the dark night, never to be seen by them again, and being tried and executed in secret... they assumed I was referring to the Gestapo.... I told them I was referring to the Provos and Jean McConville and before long the pro-IRA stance was considerably softened. There are some who equate the likes of the IRA and the White Rose and other Resistance groups when nothing could be further from the truth. So yeah, perhaps when the Germans here are back in Germany they could make it known that not all Irish people are harbouring anti-English resentment.

The other one is that Irish people are irrepressible drunks, not the brightest, no work ethic and generally incapable. That attitude seems to prevail in Germany too I have noticed. So we're not all that different. National steroetypes exist. We must deal with it.

Just stumbled across this thread and have to agree with this here.Had a stint in Berlin and came across these exact stereotypes all too often!

It's true that the Germans get a lot of stick but they dish it out as much as any nation.I too have been assumed to harbour anti british sentiment,drink too much guinness,to have violent political stances,be lazy and have the ability to talk my way out of a death sentence..now I'm not sure what's worse,being classed as efficient and dull or the above,either way it's all nonsense.I'm not convinced people equate German's with Nazi's these days either.Folks may have a sincere interest in German people's history as it had a huge impact on Europe and may also joke about Nazism and what happened but it's mostly all hyperbole and not to be taken at face value.

I cant blame people,who live thousands of miles away with virtually no common culture,for their ignorance regarding the personalities and virtues of others as it's normal,people are different and they will discuss that differently.

Just don't rely on information based on old propaganda,surely we are all smart enough in that respect.Vice Versa of course!

connewitz

SteeveeDee wrote: »

Just stumbled across this thread and have to agree with this here.Had a stint in Berlin and came across these exact stereotypes all too often!

It's true that the Germans get a lot of stick but they dish it out as much as any nation.I too have been assumed to harbour anti british sentiment,drink too much guinness,to have violent political stances,be lazy and have the ability to talk my way out of a death sentence..now I'm not sure what's worse,being classed as efficient and dull or the above,either way it's all nonsense.I'm not convinced people equate German's with Nazi's these days either.Folks may have a sincere interest in German people's history as it had a huge impact on Europe and may also joke about Nazism and what happened but it's mostly all hyperbole and not to be taken at face value.

I cant blame people,who live thousands of miles away with virtually no common culture,for their ignorance regarding the personalities and virtues of others as it's normal,people are different and they will discuss that differently.

Just don't rely on information based on old propaganda,surely we are all smart enough in that respect.Vice Versa of course!

I read this thread by accident and was amazed, what was going on here since over one year.
I am German and live here in Ireland since 8 years. My partner is Irish and since the whole bailout thing, he is on to me about the Germans could not win the war so they buy now Europe. :mad: It makes me sooooo mad!!! I do know, that he means to be funny, but this is well beneath the belt line!
We do have this collective guilt! It is true and this will be with us for generations to come!
My daughter went to school in Ireland and on her first day of school was "welcomed" by one boy with shouting "Heil Hitler". She was so shocked that she could not react (being in Ireland since one week and with little English). She came home and was raging. I just told her to ignore him. (Which I do know was wrong to say, I just wanted to protect her!)
But the next morning was the same greeting. This time she replied with "You idiot, Hitler was not a German he was from Austria!" This took all her courage and I do know, that she was threatening the rest of the day. She did not know, how the other students will react. As far as I do know she got only thumps up from the crowd.
But still no rest. This boy went on and on with his greetings and remarks. She complaint about it and I talked with the schoolmaster. He just told us that she should pretend not to hear it. Not my daughter!!! She had had enough by now and so it did happen - she beat him up! End of story!
No more comments or snide remarks. She finished school, done her Leaving Cert and went to College.
But does it has to be like this in the 21th century? What have the Irish learned in there History lessons? When you listen carefully to really old people than you get the message, that the Second World War brought food on the tables, because many Irish went to England to work there, while the English where at war. So you get the impression, that the war could go on for another while to help their families.
Don`t get me wrong, I do love Ireland and most of the people are nice and friendly, but since the bailout I am met more and more with awkward silence when I get introduced by my partner as his partner from Germany. Before they were all very interested and wanted to know a lot. Now I am just politely acknowledged.
There seems to be a stereotype all over the world, the British are arrogant, the Irish a drinking nation, the Germans have no humor, the Russians only sing and drink Wodka and so on. It is time to open our eyes and try to see what is standing in front of us - a human being like we, just different and we should except this difference because it makes the world so interesting!:)