It is beginning to grate

peasant

Ever since the IMF has waltzed in, it has become very fashionable to talk and joke about "The Germanz".

Now ...for a German (:D) ...I do have a pretty well developed sense of humour, but these constant nazi references in every second sentence ...die gehn' mir so langsam richtig auf den Sack :mad:

jb-ski

peasant wrote: »

Ever since the IMF has waltzed in, it has become very fashionable to talk and joke about "The Germanz".

Now ...for a German (:D) ...I do have a pretty well developed sense of humour, but these constant nazi references in every second sentence ...die gehn' mir so langsam richtig auf den Sack :mad:

At last, somebody has protested!

this has p''ssed me off for years, not just now with the IMF etc.
despite the increased political correctness in recent years, it seems perfectly legitimate to put on a German accent 'vee ahhr ....' and spout some stereotypical sh1te without any condemnation.

However if one were to do the same with an African,Asian,Irish Traveller, Working Class Dublin accent, you'd be absolutely slated.

Gerry Ryan 2FM was one of the worst offenders, but he's has lots of colleagues on radio who continue to consider Germans a legitimate target for 'slagging'.

that's my rant over for today!:)

jb-ski

peasant wrote: »

Now ...for a German (:D) ...I do have a pretty well developed sense of humour,

well actually, now that i'm on a roll;),
this is another prejudice that gets on my nerves; 'Germans have no sense of humour'.

It's just different guys, and it's obviously a subjective thing, but some is good & some 'less' good, (to be diplomatic).

Exactly like Irish & Anglo humour.

Carry

But the Irish do the Nazi-thingy forever! At least since I live in this country. They must have picked it up from their neighbours who are obsessed with all things Nazi... :P

My humour ends with the Nazi references as well. Do these people even know what it means? I doubt it. They are like grumpy teenagers who are forced by their parents to tidy up after an excessive party which destroyed half of the house. And of course, as teenagers go, it's the parents' fault, they are Nazis!

How would the Irish react If we called them stupid Paddys, i wonder? I'm too polite to try... and besides too intelligent to generalize.

And for the references to "ze Germanz" as such - well, the Germans were nice people when delivering, be it the guns for the highly laudet rebels from times seen in a rosy light, be it money for said party...

If I hear one more time the Nazi-reference, I might try out the Paddy-thing... or worse :mad:

hinault

peasant wrote: »

Ever since the IMF has waltzed in, it has become very fashionable to talk and joke about "The Germanz".

Now ...for a German (:D) ...I do have a pretty well developed sense of humour, but these constant nazi references in every second sentence ...die gehn' mir so langsam richtig auf den Sack :mad:

I'm glad that someone has highlighted this.

German people in general are unfailingly polite and pleasant.
Why commentators in this country attempt to copy the less informed views expressed by some British commentators is beyond me.

Germany has been a good friend to this country and our citizens over the years and we Irish need to remember this.

peasant

Yeah well ..it has been annoying forever really. But it used to be just really bad jokes ...Paddy Englishman, Paddy Irishman and Hans the Naziman. Bad taste and not funny ...but ultimately something you can live with.

However, over the last few weeks it has become endemic.
Ireland as an economy has ****ed up ...big time. Painting Germany in dark brown colours won't change that ...but somehow it seems to "help" people to get over it.

I don't get it and it pisses me off. On a personal level it alienates me from the people and country I have chosen for my home ..and that just makes me sad.

Carry

Don't let them win, that's my life's mantra.

It's sad alright that you feel alienated by some morons who never learned to think and just babble along with the tabloids and the brain-dead radio presenters. It's just easier than blame themselves in the current economical climate, that is the fúck-up of the country by their own doing.

If they throw a tantrum against those they actually are jealous of, let them. They know very well that "ze Germanz wiz de lederhosen" have more competence and guts, and that's why they rant & rave with the only arguments they know and inherited from their former colonial masters.

I'm really getting angry now, I know.

But hey, my dear Irishmen, if you call us Nazis, which is an insult, we'll call you anything which hurts you!

But there are others - perfectly intellectually capable Irish people who know the score and know how to differentiate, who look beyond their ever so lazy and convenient catholic woolly hat, which is: Jesus died for our sins, now let's slaughter ze Germanz so that we are free of sin again.
They do exist, really.

The above mentioned morons just are incapable of looking in their own backyard. I wonder though why the big American cousin isn't the butt of their hatred. The ones who closed factories down, the ones who just looked for profits without any obligations and generally don't give a ****e about Ireland - which has no oil or other resources. They wouldn't take abuse like that anyway.

Maybe we should just start to act as they describe us, namely as the murky Germans who just want to take over the emerald isle, har, har (though what would we do with it? )...

... instead of being longsuffering like Mr Bucket.

alois

while i agree that with the majority of what ye are saying, i.e. the never ending negativity towards the germans and german culture in its entirety, i have to say that Germany's actions atm with regards to letting irish banks fail has dissapointed me.
german banks that made bad investments should have been let suffer imo. this takes nothing away from the stupidity of a government that the irish people have elected as its leaders.

, who look beyond their ever so lazy and convenient catholic woolly hat, which is: Jesus died for our sins, now let's slaughter ze Germanz so that we are free of sin again.

what catholic has to do with this, i have no idea. that seems a lazy generalisation to make

peasant

alois wrote: »

i have to say that Germany's actions atm with regards to letting irish banks fail has dissapointed me.

It's actually worse than that. The Irish banks should have been let fail right in Sept 2008. But I'm pretty sure that the EU (and Germany) applied pressure behind the scenes to make Lenny implement the "cheapest bank bailout in history" and saddle us, the people, with a mountain of debt.
And now that it turns out that the banking hole is deeper than everybody thought, the EU (and the Germans) don't want to pay for it anymore and are giving us this "loan" which will bury us economically once and for all.

Not nice, not nice at all ...still doesn't make them Nazis though

liah

Just from an outside perspective from a Canadian who's lived in both Ireland and Germany (in Flensburg right now)..

I think you guys may be being a bit hypersensitive. I've noticed that if, somehow, a conversation is brought round to nazis, the germans I know get very defensive and completely overcompensate, regardless of the tone of conversation.

If anyone makes a crack about nazis they just go totally overboard to prove to us they're not nazis at all, go on and on about how much they hate the neonazis, etc. Which is wholly understandable, as no one would want to be tied to that past, but I think is a bit unnecessary now; most people, when talking about it, are joking. The defensiveness is a bit misplaced.

I've never heard a nazi joke made in seriousness, or a stereotype about the germans made in seriousness, at least before this IMF business. I've shown my housemate some of the threads that come up on boards that comment on the germans or Germany, and more often than not he just facepalms and moves on. And that's all you really can do.

Don't for a second think that because they're generalizing and making stupid comments that they genuinely mean it. They speak in generalizations to get across a point, but more often than not they don't truly believe it, at least not on an individual basis. I'm sure on a personal basis the vast majority are perfectly fine with germans.

Then again I could be way off and I'm just not seeing/hearing what you guys are seeing/hearing, since I'm not German, but as another foreigner in Ireland who got slagged for my nationality all the time, yeah, it got annoying, and infuriating, and tiresome, but it was never meant maliciously.

Try not to take it to heart! It'll pass.

jb-ski

Liah, I think you've given a very fair assessment of this thread so far.
Some of the posters are being a little sensitive, IMO.

The stupid comments stereotyping Germans (& the inexcusable Nazi ones)
come from a minority of the population who's travel experience is limited to Spain & Florida (huge generalisation!!)

Otherwise there is quite a fondness for Germans & German 'stuff'.


@ Carry, I think you may be exaggerating our sensitivity to the Paddy thing. it's only offensive when spoken with a very posh English accent

Carry

jb-ski wrote: »

@ Carry, I think you may be exaggerating our sensitivity to the Paddy thing. it's only offensive when spoken with a very posh English accent

I'm working on it...
To no avail so far, hardly manage the Irish accent :pac:

But I'll get ya - someday, somehow...

DesertFox

peasant wrote: »

Yeah well ..it has been annoying forever really. But it used to be just really bad jokes ...Paddy Englishman, Paddy Irishman and Hans the Naziman.

lol fantastic

peasant wrote: »

It's actually worse than that. The Irish banks should have been let fail right in Sept 2008. But I'm pretty sure that the EU (and Germany) applied pressure behind the scenes to make Lenny implement the "cheapest bank bailout in history" and saddle us, the people, with a mountain of debt.
And now that it turns out that the banking hole is deeper than everybody thought, the EU (and the Germans) don't want to pay for it anymore and are giving us this "loan" which will bury us economically once and for all.

Not nice, not nice at all ...still doesn't make them Nazis though

That's totally untrue, Angela Merkel was very unhappy when Ireland pulled this stunt, it was more anger from behind the scenes than pressure.
Obviously they thought they would end up paying for it, which of course they have

On a side note what has b-static.net got to do with multi quoting, highly annoying, and on that note has boards.ie forgot to pay their bandwidth bill as these are quite easily the slowest forums I've ever posted on.

theholyghost

As an Irish person the German stereotype has always annoyed me, well at least the war references. To me that sounds like a British thing that has been imported here through tabloids and Fawlty Towers etc. I don't think Germans-as-Nazis is a really "natural" reference for Irish people to make.

But I also think Irish Nazi references are fairly light hearted in that Irish people don't have direct WWII bagage and just use it as a stereotype, like fat Americans or something. I always get the impression from the British media that they do sort of take it seriously and there is an undercurrent of bitterness about Germans.

I also think the German attitude to the Nazis have changed. I think the younger people will joke about it a bit but I think for people who grew up just post war, it's taboo.

galah

to be honest, the Nazi references as such don't bother me - I'd quite happily join in, and tell them that everybody will be wearing Lederhosen and singing German Volksmusik in no time - we're slowly infiltrating the country this time instead of the sledgehammer approach...:D

what annoys me more is that is seems to be the ONLY thing people connect with Germany, which is sad. Going slightly off topic here, but there was a brilliant documentary on BBC the other day about German art in the middle ages, for example. Germany has a long history of culture, literature, music and art - more than ther Irish could ever claim - and I wish people would recognise that, too...instead of taking cheap shots...

Although I find that the British are actually worse (the constant documentaries on WW2 - get over it, we're not banging on about how you treated your colonies for centuries...).

In one word: Meh.

murphaph

theholyghost wrote: »

I also think the German attitude to the Nazis have changed. I think the younger people will joke about it a bit but I think for people who grew up just post war, it's taboo.

My 27 yo GF would never make jokes about the Hitlerzeit, nor really laugh at jokes about it. She's from the east though, so perhaps the 7 years before the wall fell have left her with a more "Anti-faschist" viewpoint. I know some Germans who would be able to laugh about it though, but when I think about it they are all from the Alte Bundesländer...interesting.

Empire o de Sun

but it does annoy me when I see "ze Germans" written in boards. Where I live, in an alten Bundesland, younger people do joke about it sometimes, but not always. The DDR was protected from the BRD by the antifascist protection wall for a time.

Merowig

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

but it does annoy me when I see "ze Germans" written in boards. Where I live, in an alten Bundesland, younger people do joke about it sometimes, but not always. The DDR was protected from the BRD by the antifascist protection wall for a time.

The wall was not for protection against the West - it was a prison wall to keep the East German Population in.

East Germany as well never accepted responsability for what happened before and had some fascism problems as well http://einestages.spiegel.de/static/topicalbumbackground/494/faschismus_made_in_ddr.html

And old Nazis were as well only punished in the East from the 60s on if it was opportunistic
http://www.welt.de/kultur/history/article11211585/Warum-die-DDR-Staatssicherheit-NS-Moerder-schuetzte.html

Sorry for getting a bit offtopic ;-)

Merowig

galah wrote: »

to be honest, the Nazi references as such don't bother me - I'd quite happily join in, and tell them that everybody will be wearing Lederhosen and singing German Volksmusik in no time - we're slowly infiltrating the country this time instead of the sledgehammer approach...:D

I do the same.
In training (Krav Maga) we had to do some ind of role play - one is harrressingthe other and then the other one has to react. My sparring partner asked me to ask him in German for his identification papers

Same guy asked me once late at night online if I am sending special reports back to the Reich.
That both situation I found somehow funny but are the exception - normally the rereferneces/jokes are really bad.


With the IMF/EU (or the Germans ;-) ) now taking over Ireland you have even better opportunitys. You can tell the guys that a German politician asked that Greece should sell some of its islands. This could be proposedagain - let Irelandsell the Aran islands - or lets buy the whole country

what annoys me more is that is seems to be the ONLY thing people connect with Germany, which is sad. Going slightly off topic here, but there was a brilliant documentary on BBC the other day about German art in the middle ages, for example. Germany has a long history of culture, literature, music and art - more than ther Irish could ever claim - and I wish people would recognise that, too...instead of taking cheap shots...

yes really a pitty but thats life

Although I find that the British are actually worse (the constant documentaries on WW2 - get over it, we're not banging on about how you treated your colonies for centuries...).

In one word: Meh.

I have a complete different impression after living as well in the UK.
Not a single Nazi joke/ reference was made ever
It is true that the bookshops are full with WWII literature andtvfull with documentaries but I don't have any problem with that as I like history. With the British it is a bit in their psyche. Perhaps they believe they sacrified their Empire to stop Hitler and therefor this kind of "obsession"

Here in Ireland in addition to the references mentioned above:
Once a group of 3-4 pricks were looking for trouble at a bus stop - as soon as they figured out am German they saluted in the Nazi way and behaved as I was their best friend. I felt so sick ....
Similiar happened with a guy as well - he wanted to bully /causing some trouble - as soon he figured am German again the greeting and told me how great Hitler was etc.

At work a Belgium colleague made a "joke" with reference to "Arbeit macht Frei" - feltreally mad about that as it was completly over the top and scolded her - thougt eveabout an HR complain.

One of my Krav Maga trainers made once as well a joke.some references I found distasteful....

Merowig

Carry wrote: »

But the Irish do the Nazi-thingy forever! At least since I live in this country. They must have picked it up from their neighbours who are obsessed with all things Nazi... :P

My humour ends with the Nazi references as well. Do these people even know what it means? I doubt it. They are like grumpy teenagers who are forced by their parents to tidy up after an excessive party which destroyed half of the house. And of course, as teenagers go, it's the parents' fault, they are Nazis!

How would the Irish react If we called them stupid Paddys, i wonder? I'm too polite to try... and besides too intelligent to generalize.

And for the references to "ze Germanz" as such - well, the Germans were nice people when delivering, be it the guns for the highly laudet rebels from times seen in a rosy light, be it money for said party...

If I hear one more time the Nazi-reference, I might try out the Paddy-thing... or worse :mad:

Not to forget that as far as I know Ireland was the only neutral country which send condolences after Hitler's Death.
Moreover the IRA got some limited support as well....

I don't believe that with Paddys you have success in insulting - tip I've got from an Irish - is to say something with reference to inbreeding and Ireland

Never tried it out but might work ;-)

Merowig

Carry wrote: »

The above mentioned morons just are incapable of looking in their own backyard. I wonder though why the big American cousin isn't the butt of their hatred. The ones who closed factories down, the ones who just looked for profits without any obligations and generally don't give a ****e about Ireland - which has no oil or other resources. They wouldn't take abuse like that anyway.

.

I wonder why it is ok to rant about Americans and not about Germans...

Furthermore Americans are not the only ones who are closing down here in Ireland companies - everyone does it and nothing bad with winding down business as there is always a reason for doing this. And companies are looking for profits - thats the way a company operates - they are not the social welfare office.

Moreover Ireland has some oil/gas - pass on a weekend the GPO and you will find sometimes guys demonstrating against Shell who are exploring and extracting this ;-)
And considering the US involvement in the Good Friday agreement I would say the US is caring to some extent about Ireland ;-)

Empire o de Sun

Merowig wrote: »

The wall was not for protection against the West - it was a prison wall to keep the East German Population in

I know that, I was taking the piss That was the name give by the DDR government.

jb-ski

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

I know that, I was taking the piss That was the name give by the DDR government.

Given the topic being discussed here, it would probably be a good idea to state CLEARLY if one is making a joke.

Empire o de Sun

Sorry for assuming that everyone knew that the DDR was a bit mad.

galah

funnily enough, just after giving out about the British and their unimaginative tele programming, we ended up watching a rather good one about Germany and her culture last night - Al Murray I think yer man's name was. And he didnt mention the war once! ;-)

I was actually impressed!

Actually, there's a difference also between Germans living abroad, and Germans at home - I think a lot of Germans at home (in Germany, that is) are somehow trapped in a society-imposed humour vacuum, where you are not allowed to joke or laugh about the history (within reason, oviously). Germans abroad are much more relaxed, I find, and some of them even have adapted an Irish sense of humour - making it much easier. (in general though I find that a lot of Germans in Germany are no longer compatible with my sense of humour after roughly 10 years abroad...I got used to all the slagging and sledging and sarcasm, they haven't...;-))

jb-ski

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

Sorry for assuming that everyone knew that the DDR was a bit mad.

Jaysus,
Given the topic being discussed here, it would probably be a good idea to state CLEARLY if one is making a JOKE.

Fuinseog

peasant wrote: »

Ever since the IMF has waltzed in, it has become very fashionable to talk and joke about "The Germanz".

Now ...for a German (:D) ...I do have a pretty well developed sense of humour, but these constant nazi references in every second sentence ...die gehn' mir so langsam richtig auf den Sack :mad:

they generally come from ill educated people heavily influenced by british tabloids. having said that all I ever heard from Germans was whiskey , guinness and IRA (außer meinem Freundeskreis) when I lived over there. jeden Tag. es ging auch a bissl auf den Sack.

stupid people are everywhere.

Fuinseog

Gerry Ryan 2FM was one of the worst offenders, but he's has lots of colleagues on radio who continue to consider Germans a legitimate target for 'slagging'.

that's my rant over for today!:)[/QUOTE]

gerry ryan war die Stimme der Proleten. genug gesagt,

Fuinseog

[
And for the references to "ze Germanz" as such - well, the Germans were nice people when delivering, be it the guns for the highly laudet rebels from times seen in a rosy light, be it money for said party...

If I hear one more time the Nazi-reference, I might try out the Paddy-thing... or worse :mad:[/QUOTE]


I was always asked about the IRA. the Germans seemed obsessed by it.

Fuinseog

Merowig wrote: »

Not to forget that as far as I know Ireland was the only neutral country which send condolences after Hitler's Death.
Moreover the IRA got some limited support as well....

I;-)

na und, wir haben Adi gern gehabt. our enemies enemy....

jb-ski

galah wrote: »

Germans abroad are much more relaxed, I find, and some of them even have adapted an Irish sense of humour - making it much easier. (in general though I find that a lot of Germans in Germany are no longer compatible with my sense of humour after roughly 10 years abroad...I got used to all the slagging and sledging and sarcasm, they haven't...;-))

IMO, this is getting close to explaining the differences in our sense of humour. it's really hard to pin down though.
German teenagers seem to take the piss out of each other, & often a lot more creatively than Irish/British mono-syllabic teens.

Fuinseog wrote: »

I was always asked about the IRA. the Germans seemed obsessed by it.

This is interesting. My experience would be different, in over 21 years of visiting/living in Germany, this would rarely have been mentioned to me.
Possibly on occasion in the early 90's, but certainly not in the last 10 years.

The Germans were more interested in our fantastic economy etc..........
which brings us right back to original post

Empire o de Sun

jb-ski wrote: »

The Germans were more interested in our fantastic economy etc..........

Stimmt

Fuinseog

jb-ski wrote: »

IMO, this is getting close to explaining the differences in our sense of humour. it's really hard to pin down though.
German teenagers seem to take the piss out of each other, & often a lot more creatively than Irish/British mono-syllabic teens.



This is interesting. My experience would be different, in over 21 years of visiting/living in Germany, this would rarely have been mentioned to me.
Possibly on occasion in the early 90's, but certainly not in the last 10 years.

The Germans were more interested in our fantastic economy etc..........
which brings us right back to original post

sense of humour is different in every culture. if anything the Germans do not get on their high horse as quickly as the Irish do.
I lived over there before we had a Wirschaftswunder and only hung out with the natives.

Fuinseog

The Germans are fools. For decades they strove towards a strong united europe and let countries join such as the UK who only joined to combat it and ireland to milk it.
it was nice to see where their money was been spent. i wonder would we bail the Germans out if the out if the boot was on the other leg. methinks not.


its odd, but we are heavily dependent on the Germans, especially in areas such as tourism, yet areas such as Kerry that exist only because of tourism are extremely anti EU.

Frisian

The Germans are fools. For decades they strove towards a strong united europe and let countries join such as the UK who only joined to combat it and ireland to milk it.
it was nice to see where their money was been spent. i wonder would we bail the Germans out if the out if the boot was on the other leg. methinks not.


its odd, but we are heavily dependent on the Germans, especially in areas such as tourism, yet areas such as Kerry that exist only because of tourism are extremely anti EU.

Fair points.
I couldn't agree more.

axer

Yes, I really hate the constant nazi references. What I normally do when people make stupid "jokes" like those is give them a quick history lesson on what my east german girlfriend's grandmother and other germans had to put up with during the war and what her parents/family put up with for 40 years afterwards even though they were not even alive during the war but yet they are being called nazis after suffering so much because of the nazis. This usually dampens the mood for a short while and makes the "joker" feel like a twat in front of everyone.

liah

axer wrote: »

Yes, I really hate the constant nazi references. What I normally do when people make stupid "jokes" like those is give them a quick history lesson on what my east german girlfriend's grandmother and other germans had to put up with during the war and what her parents/family put up with for 40 years afterwards even though they were not even alive during the war but yet they are being called nazis after suffering so much because of the nazis. This usually dampens the mood for a short while and makes the "joker" feel like a twat in front of everyone.

This is kiiiinda what I was talking about in my post..

axer

liah wrote: »

This is kiiiinda what I was talking about in my post..

The whole german-nazi joke is old. People who still make them should feel like twats.

liah

axer wrote: »

The whole german-nazi joke is old. People who still make them should feel like twats.

It's also really old to meet someone and to be met with a chorus of "Blame Canada" or accused of being America's hat or accused of being pussies or any other amount of completely stupid crap that's been worn into the ground. Or as a woman to be told to get back into the kitchen, or make a sandwich, or again, any other amount of completely stupid crap that's been worn into the ground.

Doesn't mean it warrants a history lesson or an attempt to put someone in their place. They're jokes, some are funny, some aren't, but you just gotta let it go and pick your battles and recognize when malice is actually intended and when it's not.

If someone makes a bad nazi joke and you can tell that they actually mean that they genuinely believe you're a nazi, fine, the anger is justified-- but I have not once heard anyone genuinely accuse a german of being a nazi, yet many, many, many times seen germans flip their lids and do as you do and go on a big history spiel or a rant on how much they hate nazis in general.

Do you see what I'm trying to get at? I really would worry less about the words used and worry more about the intent. If the intent's there, fire away. If it's not.. just let it go. What else can you do?

If you fight every single nazi joke you're never going to have time for any fun and everyone will be constantly afraid to crack a joke around you. Do you want that?

axer

I don't find condescending jokes funny so I don't miss people not making those type of jokes around me. I have no problem with non condescending nazi jokes but suggesting a german is a nazi because they are german i dont tolerate as it is completely condescending.

alois

liah wrote: »

It's also really old to meet someone and to be met with a chorus of "Blame Canada" or accused of being America's hat or accused of being pussies or any other amount of completely stupid crap that's been worn into the ground. Or as a woman to be told to get back into the kitchen, or make a sandwich, or again, any other amount of completely stupid crap that's been worn into the ground.

Doesn't mean it warrants a history lesson or an attempt to put someone in their place. They're jokes, some are funny, some aren't, but you just gotta let it go and pick your battles and recognize when malice is actually intended and when it's not.

If someone makes a bad nazi joke and you can tell that they actually mean that they genuinely believe you're a nazi, fine, the anger is justified-- but I have not once heard anyone genuinely accuse a german of being a nazi, yet many, many, many times seen germans flip their lids and do as you do and go on a big history spiel or a rant on how much they hate nazis in general.

Do you see what I'm trying to get at? I really would worry less about the words used and worry more about the intent. If the intent's there, fire away. If it's not.. just let it go. What else can you do?

If you fight every single nazi joke you're never going to have time for any fun and everyone will be constantly afraid to crack a joke around you. Do you want that?

i think you're being unfair, one cannot grow up German and not be imbued with some sense of guilt for the absolute tragedy. there's a huge difference between the weight that the word Nazi carries to a nationality being joked about due to being pacifist/drinking a lot.

we need to recognise that most germans know a hell of a lot more about the Holocaust than a lot of Irish; and some have to deal with what their own relatives did. Not only do they want to distance themselves from Germany's past acts, they're constantly seeking to reinvent Germany's image abroad - all entirely understandable.
As is the annoyance at seeing oneself being labelled a brutal murderer.

peasant

alois wrote: »

i think you're being unfair, one cannot grow up German and not be imbued with some sense of guilt for the absolute tragedy. there's a huge difference between the weight that the word Nazi carries to a nationality being joked about due to being pacifist/drinking a lot.

Even if you don't feel guilty (we're now into the third or fourth post-war generation) ...it just fails miserably at being even remotely funny.

There are so many other splendid German stereotypes to play with (Ordnungsliebe, Sauberkeitsfimmel, vorauseilender Gehorsam, etc) but nope ...it always has to be the fella with the funny tache and strange hairstyle.

axer

alois wrote: »

and some have to deal with what their own relatives did.

and not just that, there were a huge number of German victims in the war - completely innocent victims.

Fuinseog

axer wrote: »

The whole german-nazi joke is old. People who still make them should feel like twats.

its interesting that in a school setting kids shouting sieg heil and the like is still entertained. if grown ups do not tell the kids why that is wrong, where are they supposed to learn?

Fuinseog

axer wrote: »

and not just that, there were a huge number of German victims in the war - completely innocent victims.

'jerry started the war' is the counter argument that is oft quoted.

are the Germans themselves obsessesed with lecturing us on the war? check out Jurgen the German on youtube

axer

Fuinseog wrote: »

its interesting that in a school setting kids shouting sieg heil and the like is still entertained. if grown ups do not tell the kids why that is wrong, where are they supposed to learn?

Where is it tolerated?

alois

axer wrote: »

Where is it tolerated?

i'd imagine fuinseog meant irish schools. teachers generally ignore that kind of stuff...

EGAR

alois wrote: »

i think you're being unfair, one cannot grow up German and not be imbued with some sense of guilt for the absolute tragedy. there's a huge difference between the weight that the word Nazi carries to a nationality being joked about due to being pacifist/drinking a lot.

we need to recognise that most germans know a hell of a lot more about the Holocaust than a lot of Irish; and some have to deal with what their own relatives did. Not only do they want to distance themselves from Germany's past acts, they're constantly seeking to reinvent Germany's image abroad - all entirely understandable.
As is the annoyance at seeing oneself being labelled a brutal murderer.

Sorry but I do not believe in the whole collective guilt trip and so I am not imbued with any sort of guilt and never will be. Nor do I represent Germany abroad, I am me, simple as.

Although I had to laugh when the Pope got elected and people around here felt it necessary to congratulate me on the fact . Even funnier when a real old lady congratulated me in the local shop and then whispered to her husband: "At least the Pope isn't English!".

Carry

Sorry, EGAR, it' not as simple as that.

The collective guilt does exist, it's implanted in German education and it's implanted in the way other peoples want to see you. And it's still implanted through media.
Germans are still struggling to prove themselves NOT to be Nazis in the eyes of other nations. Not individually, though.
Not that easy, because Hitler is by now part of some kind of pop culture - the moustache, the hairstile, the speach - Charlie Chaplin saw to it, as did the British and even Monty Python, among others.

Germans seem to be defined by the biggest impact their nation has made in history. Same as Russia with Stalin who ist part of pop culture, too. Same as Ireland, who tries desperately to be seen as a nation which never caused a war and was always fighting for independence. The poor Paddies, the loveable rogues. - You see what myths brought you to...
I disgress.

What I meant: Nobody can escape national prejudices. Even if you are from a younger generation who has nothing to do with the past.

I remember the first encounter with such pop culture prejudices, namely my very first boyfriend on the emerald isle. Once I asked him to tidy up the mess he caused in MY home, he promised, as Irish men do, never did, as Irish men do, I reminded him, he called me a concentration camp warden, because he was too busy with listening to some show on the 'wireless' which was about slagging off the Germans and couldn't be arsed to contribute to the household ...

Fine, ye Oirish heroes. If you call me a 'Nazi', I'll be one, if it comes to mess up my place and my space, and if it means to get things done.




But be aware that no German woman (or man) can ever be such a Nazi as an Irish mammy!

You're lucky to have us ...:D

alois

well in fairness the last time an english pope was elected, it did not do ireland any favours:)

Fuinseog

alois wrote: »

i'd imagine fuinseog meant irish schools. teachers generally ignore that kind of stuff...

genau. they would however be less inclined to ignore anti black comments.