Access to Engineer Manuals

KoolKid

Anything is possible.
Probable? no.
In all my years in this industry (and that's a lot)I have not come across one case of engineer knowledge or engineer codes being used to defeat a system.
You are now switching to systems prior to EN50131 ??
A few minutes ago you were concerned about people voiding their insurance by not having it maintained.This would not apply to insurance policy's with alarms to IS199.
Which concerns you more? people maintaining their own systems or whether they have an engineer manual.

KoolKid

gigity gigity wrote: »

And how would you prove that you had a service? certificate perhaps?

I am sure you are aware of what's required on all work sheets.
As well as that the customer has a receipt ,an invoice etc..
The security company can also verify from their records if required.

gigity gigity

The point is that it is possible. This is why we shouldnt give out information which could end up in the hands of someone with the wrong intentions.

The issue isnt about people maintaining their own alarms, its about information getting into the hands of people that your customers are trying to keep out.

We are supposed to be the professionals here, If I knew that my alarm installer would pass information around that could lead to my system being compromised I would go mad.

And what exactly are you talking about what is required on work sheets?

KoolKid

gigity gigity wrote: »

If I knew that my alarm installer would pass information around that could lead to my system being compromised I would go mad.

The most important thing here is that we are not giving out the information that is required to disable an alarm.
Even on systems pre EN50131 , with the exception of the like of CP32s ,there is nothing an engineer manual or an engineer code can do to help you disable an alarm. Now , we can all come up with the what if this & that & the other all happen. What if the burglar gets in during the day & your system is dis armed & he gets into engineer & disables that , that & the other.
The problem here isn't that he has the information. The problem is he's already in the house. Where is the house owner & why isn't the alarm set.
(Another thing that might void your insurance :rolleyes:)

gigity gigity wrote: »

And what exactly are you talking about what is required on work sheets?

I was answering your question about how to prove an alarm was serviced.

Spook80

sorry to jump in but found this thread an interesting read as i work for a monitoring alarm company myself.

I agree there is nothing in an engineers manual that can help a potential intruder.
All they can get from the manual is the default code which i am assuming has been changed.
If they have access to the panel and the engineer code (not in manual) then i reckon they would just rob the place there and then rather than change the bell time.
Any owner of an alarm system, monitored or not, has the right to the codes as it is their property, we can only advise that should they attempt and fail any servicing or repair job then they are responsible for consequences.

altor

gigity gigity wrote: »

I would not hand over the installation and programming manual to someone whos system is monitored because there is a risk that they will attempt to service the system themselves. By doing so they could

With an alarm monitored or not they could do A,B or C.

gigity gigity wrote: »

A) Void their insurance

If an alarm is installed to the EN50131 standard, (monitored or not) any changes made by a non registered person would make the standard void.

gigity gigity wrote: »

B)Cause serious harm as underneath the control panel lid is live electricity

So its ok if its not monitored

gigity gigity wrote: »

c)Cause system faults and possibly call out police accidentally

Could they not cause system faults if its not monitored

gigity gigity

Koolkid the salient facts here are that the risk exists albeit that in your history you havent came accross it. Any time you pose a question I have given you an answer which you then go on to twist. My concerns are stilll there and it is possible to do a system harm from the engineers manual. who says we are taliking about a house here, it could potentially be a commercial property.

Altor read the posts and stop repeating your mates comments.

KoolKid

You still have not given an example of information in an engineer manual showing how to disable an alarm. Also bear in mind most engineer menus could be easily navigated without a manual.
You still need the code, and in newer systems you also need the user code.

gigity gigity

Why do you keep on asking the same questions? I have already given you examples of how an alarm may be disabled, but for your convienience I will state it again that important featurs such as zone/input functions and output/comms can be changed from the engineers menu.

Not all systems are up to todays standards and so engineers menus can be accessed without a user code. I have already stated how someone may obtain an eng code.

KoolKid

And I have stated over and over again the engineer code is whats needed here not the engineer manual. Once you have engineer access you can make the changes you refer to without needing a manual.