be careful

sooty145

just heard today ,a few lads were out lamping foxes last night in wicklow,lit up a field ,seen deer in it ,left them to continue on lamping foxes .next thing they knew guards called to them this morning ,asked them was it them that lit up the field ,they said it was but were only shooting foxes and did nothing ,the lads got there guns taken off them and charge with poaching . this f**king country is getting worse ,or is it the c**ts in it?

bibio

Did they have permision to shoot/lamp foxes in that field, if so no problem, no case of poaching can stand up, no deer in possesion or large centrefire rifles above .223. If they admitted to lamping that field and did not have permission then they were poaching, and guards are right.
We ring the local guards every we time we lamp foxes on club lands, with the amount of dee poaching going on around Wicklow at night, it is good to hear guards are at least taking an interest.
Lesson here, is to inform local guards if you are lamping foxes.

Birdnuts

sooty145 wrote: »

just heard today ,a few lads were out lamping foxes last night in wicklow,lit up a field ,seen deer in it ,left them to continue on lamping foxes .next thing they knew guards called to them this morning ,asked them was it them that lit up the field ,they said it was but were only shooting foxes and did nothing ,the lads got there guns taken off them and charge with poaching . this f**king country is getting worse ,or is it the c**ts in it?

That and hopping protestors heads off the road outside the Dail - Yep:(

Birdnuts

bibio wrote: »

Did they have permision to shoot/lamp foxes in that field, if so no problem, no case of poaching can stand up, no deer in possesion or large centrefire rifles above .223. If they admitted to lamping that field and did not have permission then they were poaching, and guards are right.
We ring the local guards every we time we lamp foxes on club lands, with the amount of dee poaching going on around Wicklow at night, it is good to hear guards are at least taking an interest.
Lesson here, is to inform local guards if you are lamping foxes.

The Blessington Lakes are being cleaned out with illegal fishing and other activities with not a thing been done about:mad: - in contrast lads doin a bit of lamping get hammered, not good enough:(

sooty145

dont know if they did had permission , however i know two lads who got done in wicklow two years ago ,they were shooting in ther own permission ,and because of one dickhead ,who said he seen them 4.5 km away from where they were stopped they got there guns taken away and fined ,it seems to me that you dont need any real proof in wicklow

Cass

Not sure where to start here?

sooty145 wrote:

......next thing they knew guards called to them this morning .......... and the lads got their guns taken off them and charged with poaching

No deer, no admission of guilt, no evidence, no warrant, no actions of threatening behaviour to warrant seizure of guns. Take your pick. Why did the lads surrender their firearms? The Gardai had none of the items i mentioned above, hence no cause to take their guns, and i mean take. If they voluntarily handed them over thats worse again. Even if proven innocent the hassle with getting the guns back is a nightmare, i know from close friends that have endured this process before.

bibio wrote:

............ no deer in possesion or large centrefire rifles above .223

Whatever about the deer, what has not having a rifle over .223 got to do with it? If they have a deer license and deer legal gun, and were shooting deer at night its illegal. If they have NOT got a deer license or deer legal rifle and are shooting deer at night its illegal. Point is caliber of rifle has no bearing on it. The fact they have a "foxing" caliber is not a sign of innocence no more than having a deer legal caliber rifle is an admission of guilt.

bibio wrote:

Lesson here, is to inform local guards if you are lamping foxes

That is simply not practical, and the Gardai would grow weary (quickly) of getting multiple phone calls every night from multiple shooters. Plus i cannot tell you the amount of times i simply decided to go out, on the spur of the moment. Lastly, my local Garda station is a one man outfit. Chances of getting him by any medium is nigh on impossible.

sooty145 wrote:

...........however i know two lads who got done in wicklow two years ago ,they were shooting in ther own permission ,and because of one dickhead ,who said he seen them 4.5 km away from where they were stopped they got there guns taken away and fined ......

Seriously!?

Lads the Gardai are there to enforce the laws and cannot go around taking guns as they please. There are laws that state the powers a Garda has to revoke, seize a firearm. They revolve around, threatening behaviour, actual crime with a firearm, poaching, but to mention a few. However in all cases they must have evidence, proof that a crime/infraction was commited. How (according to you) they have had free reign to seize guns as they see fit without being challenged/questioned is beyond me.

bunny shooter

If a Guard asks/seizes your firearm I reckon your better to give it to him/her and ask for the reason/s why and then engage a solicitor to act on your behalf rather than argue the toss over what what rights he/she has to do it.

To refuse may escalate into a worse situation involving the armed response unit and a stand off :eek:

Cass

To clarify.

I am in no way suggesting or condoning any actions that may lead to trouble. Or to refuse to co-operate with the Gardai.

My point is if a Garda arrived at my door and said "Mr X reported you for doing something illegal (poaching for example" i would ask for proof, evidence, etc. Now this does not stem from watching too much Law and Order or CSI or any of that crap, but according to the OP the Gardai are taking reported incidents as Gospel and seizing firearms without cause or due process (investigating the report).

I would not run up the stairs and grab as many firearms as i owned in a rush to give them over. I would however make arrangments with the Gardai to meet at the station at a time/date specified by the Garda, along with the firearm in question and then bring appropriate counsel, be that solicitor or some other represetative able to give me legal opinions/advice on my rights.

rocketman3

its gone bad when the locals cant even go for a fox..

but you cant blame the Gards they only get the info from someone els.. that person probably tough there doing the right thing trying to help stopping lamping etc..

but taking the guns with no proof is a bit harsh on the lads but thats what shooters are up against now..

lampers are ruining it for everyone:mad::mad:..

bunny shooter

Regarding the matter of Gardai turning up at your door with no warrant afaik if it's regarding a matter involving legally held firearms they no longer need a warrant to enter? Didn't McDowell sort this?

FTR, I agree with your sentiments about proof etc as otherwise a malicious complaint could be enough to get your firearm/s taken from you BUT I reckon the Gardai will always edge on the side of caution when firearms are involved.

And if you are innocent you'd have to hope you'd get it/them back quickly and in the same condition you handed them over.

Gardai turning up the following morning is not much help anyway. To prove someone is poaching you'd have to catch them in the act or at least with freshly shot deer in their possession or have a witness statement saying they saw them shooting the deer.

Traumadoc

What will happen to people caught shooting illegally, some guys were caught recently - I dont want to say where, but it was on land I paid a lot of money to shoot on.

welsummer

>just heard today ,a few lads were out lamping foxes last night in wicklow,lit up a field ,seen deer in it ,left them .

what part of wicklow.....the guards in wicklow seem to have been given orders to clamp down on lamping big time.
they are going to have their work cut out when the lambing season starts and every farmer is in the fields with a lamp checkinh his stock

DavyDee

If i was you id get in touch with Des Crofton of the NARGC, I found him very helpful. His email is nargc@iol.ie, as far as I know the gardai in this case acted outside the law.

I wont lamp near my favorite grouse spot as there are red deer in the forestry near by and some mouth would either report you for poaching of just mouth off that you were even though I have no interest what so ever in shooting deer, nothing against it just doesnt interest me but do like afew chops or burgers from a nice young red when the uncles shoot them!

cavan shooter

The Poaching of deer is wrong and I do have a great deal of sympathy for Lads who have permissions on which this carry on is happening, However I have been very annoyed of Late with the Irish Deer Societys "Shine a light on Poaching campaign" They imply that anyone out lamping foxes is a poacher and or its a dangerous activity that should be stopped. Its about time they cop on.

2 Farmers I know have withdrawn permission to lads for shooting deer because of this, both do a lot of lamping

fish slapped

rocketman3 wrote: »

lampers are ruining it for everyone:mad::mad:..

Rocketman I'm asking you to clarify this statement as I don't think it reads as you meant it... OR DOES IT??

kildare.17hmr

fish slapped wrote: »

Rocketman I'm asking you to clarify this statement as I don't think it reads as you meant it... OR DOES IT??

+1, i hope you mean the illegal lamping of deer and not lads lamping foxes

rocketman3

fish slapped wrote: »

Rocketman I'm asking you to clarify this statement as I don't think it reads as you meant it... OR DOES IT??

i mean as in deer lampers are ruining it for everyone lads even lamping foxes are getting the blame in the wrong..

Savage93

I agree entirely, with the times that are in it there is a huge increase in lamping deer, both by guys for their own needs and for people who make a business out of it, anyone lamping deer deserves to lose his gun and license as well as a hefty fine, a few examples would make some people think twice. As for the "commercial" lampers" I think the only way to stop this is through the game dealers