Unrest Outside Dail

dfbemt

Being reported live on Sky News at moment.

Pictures of a seemingly elderly peaceful protestor allegedly being thrown to the ground by a male Garda.

Moments earlier the man had been approached by a female Garda. He appears to peacefully walk away and further down the road the male garda approaches. The man holds his hands up in the air as if to surrender but then appears to be thrown to the ground.

Numbers of protestors appear to be growing but all look peaceful.

Does not look good with all the international media around.

sdanseo

dfbemt wrote: »

Being reported live on Sky News at moment.

Pictures of a seemingly elderly peaceful protestor allegedly being thrown to the ground by a male Garda.

Moments earlier the man had been approached by a female Garda. He appears to peacefully walk away and further down the road the male garda approaches. The man holds his hands up in the air as if to surrender but then appears to be thrown to the ground.

Numbers of protestors appear to be growing but all look peaceful.

Does not look good with all the international media around.

Saw coverage on RTÉ. The fella was blocking the ministerial cars, causing an obstruction, chanting, shouting, causing unrest and generally being a dip****.

No problem with peaceful protest but that doesnt extend to inciting a Garda reaction.

RonMexico

I thought they way he was thrown to the ground a tad unnecessary.

goldie fish

It did seem a bit heavy handed.

Sierra Oscar

These sort of protests are beginning to occur on a daily basis now. The perimeter of Dail Eireann was breached today.

Some sort of crowd control barriers should really be erected - to allow for peaceful demonstrations to occur without the possibility of protesters being injured.

_Kaiser_

sdonn wrote: »

No problem with peaceful protest but that doesnt extend to inciting a Garda reaction.

From watching RTE's own coverage the last few days (a station not known for its own impartiality in favour of the Establishment at times - which of course pays its bills so not entirely surprising), certain Gardai seem to be taking their "crowd control" duties a little too enthusiastically.

Of course it wouldn't be the first time we've had headline news coverage of Garda heavy-handedness either (Shell protests, recent marches in Dublin etc).

While the Gardai should certainly maintain order, they should remember that their mandate is to "protect and serve" the community (link to their own Mission Statement), not act as the (soon to be outgoing) Government's personal brigade of bouncers. :rolleyes:

Yes yes, there are a lot of Gardai that are hardworking and take their duties and responsibilities with the gravity they deserve, but there are unfortunately also too many who think that they're Ireland's answer to Dirty Harry with the result being that we have the situation where (as with everything else associated with the Irish State) there's absolutely no consistency and it all depends on "who you get on the day"

Corcioch

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

From watching RTE's own coverage the last few days (a station not known for its own impartiality in favour of the Establishment at times - which of course pays its bills so not entirely surprising), certain Gardai seem to be taking their "crowd control" duties a little too enthusiastically.

Of course it wouldn't be the first time we've had headline news coverage of Garda heavy-handedness either (Shell protests, recent marches in Dublin etc).

While the Gardai should certainly maintain order, they should remember that their mandate is to "protect and serve" the community (link to their own Mission Statement), not act as the (soon to be outgoing) Government's personal brigade of bouncers. :rolleyes:

Yes yes, there are a lot of Gardai that are hardworking and take their duties and responsibilities with the gravity they deserve, but there are unfortunately also too many who think that they're Ireland's answer to Dirty Harry with the result being that we have the situation where (as with everything else associated with the Irish State) there's absolutely no consistency and it all depends on "who you get on the day"

How's about we stop this trial by media nonesense and people accept that there are two sides to every story.

The neatly edited footage shown on RTE is not the full story. It certainly wasn't the full story with the Hijacked USI protest a few weeks ago . . .and it wasn't the full story last night either.

Turner

A Garda motorcyclist single handedly (until backup arrived) stopped a mob of "peaceful protesters" from storming our government buildings using only a baton.

As i said in another thread he did exactly what the tax payers of Ireland pay him to do, protect life and property.

_Kaiser_

Corcioch wrote: »

How's about we stop this trial by media nonesense and people accept that there are two sides to every story.

The neatly edited footage shown on RTE is not the full story. It certainly wasn't the full story with the Hijacked USI protest a few weeks ago . . .and it wasn't the full story last night either.

So.. just so I'm clear, it'd be your contention that what we've seen on the TV (and not just in the last few days) is a "one-sided" tale and the Gardai in question (note that I didn't say all!) are just victims of selective editing... by the state broadcaster... who generally tread very lightly when it comes to showing State apparatus in a negative light... :rolleyes:

Explain to me then the Shell debacle, or the infamous May Day protests, or any other number of examples that have been covered in the last few years.

Ignoring the problem won't make it go away ya know...

Corcioch

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

So.. just so I'm clear, it'd be your contention that what we've seen on the TV (and not just in the last few days) is a "one-sided" tale and the Gardai in question (note that I didn't say all!) are just victims of selective editing... by the state broadcaster... who generally tread very lightly when it comes to showing State apparatus in a negative light... :rolleyes:

Explain to me then the Shell debacle, or the infamous May Day protests, or any other number of examples that have been covered in the last few years.

Ignoring the problem won't make it go away ya know...

Ha Ha Ha . . . .RTE, tread very lightly towards AGS . . . .lmao.



The footage shown by RTE from the USI riot was a disgrace, the editing was blatant. It showed almost nothing until all of a sudden Gardai from the Public Order unit were using batons . . . .what a joke. Anyone who has a clue about how a public order unit are deployed knows that it is a graduated response completely under the control of officers.

Thankfully the comlpete picture is available for the prosecutions that I hope will follow. . . .prosecutions of those engaged in a riot by definition under the CJPO act.

Its just unlike the Media, AGS dont go broadcasting their footage, or footage from local CCTV retained as evidence all over the TV, engaging in Trail by media.

As for the public disorder in Iris, Mayo . . . .isn't it the so called protesters, political tourists many of them, that have been convicted in the courts???? Yes. Wasn't it they that undertook harassment and intimidation on a huge scale in that area that led to AGS having to deploy there in numbers??? There was no debacle in Iris, many of the so called protesters have been sucessfully prosecuted in courts.

Again there was so much more going on there than the media footage showed.

Anyone who forms their opinions based on snippets of footage seen on the NET or TV hasn't a clue imo.

dfbemt

Chief--- wrote: »

A Garda motorcyclist single handedly (until backup arrived) stopped a mob of "peaceful protesters" from storming our government buildings using only a baton.

As i said in another thread he did exactly what the tax payers of Ireland pay him to do, protect life and property.

Looked to me as if he swung his baton a few times at Aengus O'Snodaigh TD who was protesting peacefully at his own workplace !!!

gflood

here is the video of the supposedly dail protester, RTE should be ashamed of themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4ENNWCZVjk

Remember the RTE video shows him standing there and then being shuffled to the ground (as if he didn't move).

My opinion of this video is that its a national disgrace that I have to rely on non governmental sources to get the truth to politics in this country. And these are the same shower who want us to trust, believe and so on.

you can hear in the video foreign journalists asking gardai to leave him alone

gflood

"A Garda motorcyclist single handedly (until backup arrived) stopped a mob of "peaceful protesters" from storming our government buildings using only a baton."

His name is John J Rambo

parsi

It was interesting to see the way his colleagues attempted to wrest his weapon from him in an attempt to calm things down.

That said the guy in the shirt sleeves seemed to be very cool-headed.

One also wonders why the main gate of an important public building was left unmanned - imagine if it was Al Qaida and not some shinners..

rccaulfield

He's obviously not well ffs-Happens every day!

sdanseo

What's the story with the MPs there in gov buildings? They looked armed, and were facing down a crowd of protestors, (albeit well behind a line of Gardaí) - under what circumstances would they have to engage a crowd? Would they let the buildings be stormed knowing protestors are unarmed or would they theoretically have to draw weapons?

shakin

dfbemt wrote: »

Looked to me as if he swung his baton a few times at Aengus O'Snodaigh TD who was protesting peacefully at his own workplace !!!

An elected member of the dail should adhere to the laws of the land and requests from gardai to maintain public order,there is a thing called "standards in public office".
Government buidings is not his place of work, dail eireann is so he shouldnt have been beyond those gates and please god he never will. Although its not surprising to see that scumbag acting in such a way.

shakin

sdonn wrote: »

What's the story with the MPs there in gov buildings? They looked armed, and were facing down a crowd of protestors, (albeit well behind a line of Gardaí) - under what circumstances would they have to engage a crowd? Would they let the buildings be stormed knowing protestors are unarmed or would they theoretically have to draw weapons?[/QUOTE

Thought i saw one of them had an asp drawn at some stage, cant imagine they would open fire on the crowd, although with 40 odd shinners on front of you, it would be tempting im sure....

ANXIOUS

Can a member of dail eireann be arrested in the grounds of dail eireann, or on his way to dail eireann?

eroo

dfbemt wrote: »

Looked to me as if he swung his baton a few times at Aengus O'Snodaigh TD who was protesting peacefully at his own workplace !!!

That made my day!!

That same TD was simply 'protesting' during the 1981 Ballsbridge Riots.

Hooch

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Can a member of dail eireann be arrested in the grounds of dail eireann, or on his way to dail eireann?

No he cant be arrested on his way to Dail Eireann......IF the Dail is in session or he is travelling to session.

Of course common law breach of the peace can kick in......

Hooch

dfbemt wrote: »

Looked to me as if he swung his baton a few times at Aengus O'Snodaigh TD who was protesting peacefully at his own workplace !!!

Im beginning to seriously question your interest in posting in the ES forum to be honest........im questioning if your posts are just for pure trolling or actually out of interest.....

legallyblonde86

The guards would rather be protesting due to the fact that their wages will be cut again soon, rather than standing against them!! However, due to the nature of the job they have to carry out orders and refusal to do so could result in a disciplinary action against them.
So to avoid this they have to do as told to avoid a fine or worse!
As for being heavy handed, not all Gardaí are like that but it is getting increasingly frustrating when members of the public blame the Gardaí for the problems in this country and take it out on them.

Just remember they're going through the recession too...

Zambia

Lads I hope you all shaved because the 6 oclock news in Melbourne had a good 30 second clip of you all closing the gate's of the dail.

Dont be to excited it was just after a story of a Roo loose on the eastern freeway this morning.

parsi

eroo wrote: »

That made my day!!

That same TD was simply 'protesting' during the 1981 Ballsbridge Riots.

You may recall that a long-dead former Taoiseach also had first-hand experience of "protesting" during riots in Ballsbridge .

Many moons ago as a young kid up from the country myself and the auld fella strayed into the Dept of Finance (looking for another Dept.) only to be greeted by an armed MP. Until yesterday I used wonder was I somehow misremembering that event as I hadnt encountered them on subsequent visits.

DonJose

Chief--- wrote: »

A Garda motorcyclist single handedly (until backup arrived) stopped a mob of "peaceful protesters" from storming our government buildings using only a baton.

As i said in another thread he did exactly what the tax payers of Ireland pay him to do, protect life and property.

Funny, all I saw was a scumbag using a baton on an elected TD.

cushtac

DonJose wrote: »

Funny, all I saw was a scumbag using a baton on an elected TD.

Does the fact that he is elected give him the right to break the law and engage in public disorder?

hobochris

parsi wrote: »

It was interesting to see the way his colleagues attempted to wrest his weapon from him in an attempt to calm things down.

That said the guy in the shirt sleeves seemed to be very cool-headed.

One also wonders why the main gate of an important public building was left unmanned - imagine if it was Al Qaida and not some shinners..

I'd suggest you look at the footage again, His baton was grabbed by the protesters, His colleagues were simply helping him retrieve it.

Corcioch

hobochris wrote: »

I'd suggest you look at the footage again, His baton was grabbed by the protesters, His colleagues were simply helping him retrieve it.

Exactly,

Isn't it amazing what folks convince themselves they saw:rolleyes:

Zambia

If a member strikes someone he is answerable to his superiors, the force and the Garda Ombudsman. Maybe if Irelands "Elected" representatives had half that accountability there would be nothing outside that court but traffic.

davetherave

sdonn wrote: »

What's the story with the MPs there in gov buildings? They looked armed, and were facing down a crowd of protestors, (albeit well behind a line of Gardaí) - under what circumstances would they have to engage a crowd? Would they let the buildings be stormed knowing protestors are unarmed or would they theoretically have to draw weapons?

Not going to go into the details of it for obvious reasons, restricted document and opsec and such, but we have specific rules of engagement and there are a number of options(not the right word but I can't think of another way to phrase it right now) to take before drawing arms, and then, firing while doing aid to the civil power dutys.

Of course I'd love to see what one of the MP's would do if a protester struck him/her and there were no media around.

(AP Photo/Peter Morrison)

hobochris

davetherave wrote: »

Of course I'd love to see what one of the MP's would do if a protester struck him/her and there were no media around.

(AP Photo/Peter Morrison)

I was thinking the same thing, I'd love to see these "Peaceful protesters" being dealt with by the army after throwing a few punches and then shouting peaceful protest to the officer and those under his command, I'd say they would be glad to be dealt with by AGS after.

Hooch

DonJose wrote: »

Funny, all I saw was a scumbag using a baton on an elected TD.

Try to remain civil or else do not post in this forum.

One and only warning

eroo

NGA.. Was.. it.. you.. at the Dail yesterday?

:P

parsi

Corcioch wrote: »

Exactly,

Isn't it amazing what folks convince themselves they saw:rolleyes:

It sure is amazing what folks convince themselves they saw. :rolleyes:

Corcioch

parsi wrote: »

It sure is amazing what folks convince themselves they saw. :rolleyes:

Good Man, At least your aware of the problem. Your on the way to dealing with it now.

parsi

Corcioch wrote: »

Good Man, At least your aware of the problem. Your on the way to dealing with it now.

I presume that by "your" you actually mean "you're" ? You're a credit, mate.

parsi

parsi wrote: »

I presume that by "your" you actually mean "you're" ? You're a credit, mate.

Are you a troll. The TD and one of the protesters are clearly trying to pull the baton out of the Garda's hand. Anything that happens to them trying that is tough.

ANXIOUS

The thing that concerns me the most about the incident is that the motorcycle gardai's reactions is so out of line with the other four gardai's reactions. Which makes me wonder, what threat did he see that the others didnt?

ANXIOUS

nice guy always wrote: »

No he cant be arrested on his way to Dail Eireann......IF the Dail is in session or he is travelling to session.

Of course common law breach of the peace can kick in......

Thanks for that. If other laws can kick in then how come that fg td wasnt arrested for drink driving in the grounds of the dail?

parsi

foreign wrote: »

Are you a troll. The TD and one of the protesters are clearly trying to pull the baton out of the Garda's hand. Anything that happens to them trying that is tough.

Grammar and spelling is important. No amount of troll accusations can change that.

Paulzx

DonJose wrote: »

Funny, all I saw was a scumbag using a baton on an elected TD.

Maybe the "scumbag" was afraid the "elected T.D" had some of his mates with him

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cs-gas-discovered-in-home-of-o-snodaigh-supporter-465028.html

belacqua_

davetherave wrote: »

Of course I'd love to see what one of the MP's would do if a protester struck him/her and there were no media around.

(AP Photo/Peter Morrison)

Are the MPs usually on duty at Leinster House? I don't recall ever seeing them there before.

Rialtas

ANXIOUS wrote: »

The thing that concerns me the most about the incident is that the motorcycle gardai's reactions is so out of line with the other four gardai's reactions. Which makes me wonder, what threat did he see that the others didnt?

I'd say if he was a Garda of a certain vintage, he would have seen plenty.

"They haven't gone away you know" :mad:

Spartan09

ANXIOUS wrote: »

The thing that concerns me the most about the incident is that the motorcycle gardai's reactions is so out of line with the other four gardai's reactions. Which makes me wonder, what threat did he see that the others didnt?

What he seen was that he was initially alone while an angry baying mob pushed and forced their way towards government buildings, which he was there to protect by whatever means necessary. When faced with such a mob he legitably drew his baton to try to hold the crowd back on his own, being unaware of where or how long it would be before backup would arrive to support him. Seems like a perfectly logical reaction to me and fair play to him.

FGR

I would like to believe that people would think twice when confronting the MP at Leinster House; considering that they're carrying heat.

davetherave

belacqua_ wrote: »

Are the MPs usually on duty at Leinster House? I don't recall ever seeing them there before.

Out of sight and out of mind.

But yes, there is a permanent MP detachment in Government Buildings.

Zuppy

I have to say that I found the RTE footage of the protests (Student one as well) pretty fair. And I don't presume any civil disturbance is one sided but the definition of appropriate force does seem to be a bit grey for some people. The students, like the AGS had their own cameras so at least we can see a bit more of it to form an opinion. (those of us not there)

Most surprising is how the AGS is seen in some of the footage, considering how seriously the AGS take their PR. And RTE wouldn't be considered anti state in anyway. So either they were heavy handed or one or two incidents escaped their full control IMO.

ANXIOUS

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Thanks for that. If other laws can kick in then how come that fg td wasnt arrested for drink driving in the grounds of the dail?

The grounds of the Dail are not a public place under the Road Traffic Act.

ZuppyLurk wrote: »

I have to say that I found the RTE footage of the protests (Student one as well) pretty fair. And I don't presume any civil disturbance is one sided but the definition of appropriate force does seem to be a bit grey for some people. The students, like the AGS had their own cameras so at least we can see a bit more of it to form an opinion. (those of us not there)

Most surprising is how the AGS is seen in some of the footage, considering how seriously the AGS take their PR. And RTE wouldn't be considered anti state in anyway. So either they were heavy handed or one or two incidents escaped their full control IMO.

How many unedited videos of the full event have you seen? Not ones that are just two or three minutes long in the middle of things?

Gardaí will not release the footage they have as it may be used as evidence.

Zuppy

foreign wrote: »

The grounds of the Dail are not a public place under the Road Traffic Act.



How many unedited videos of the full event have you seen? Not ones that are just two or three minutes long in the middle of things?

Gardaí will not release the footage they have as it may be used as evidence.

As we should all know edited or unedited doesn't matter, people at the same events form very different opinions. I am sure most eye witnesses don't all give the same story. I am just saying that the footage (public) didn't look too complementary for the AGS.

And like most public servants I am sure the AGS is open to criticism.

ZuppyLurk

ZuppyLurk wrote: »

As we should all know edited or unedited doesn't matter, people at the same events form very different opinions. I am sure most eye witnesses don't all give the same story. I am just saying that the footage (public) didn't look too complementary for the AGS.

And like most public servants I am sure the AGS is open to criticism.

I'll accept criticism when it's warranted. Basing your opinion on selected or edited footage is just stupid. If the full unedited footage show wrong doing then I'd probably be the first one to criticise because it leads to the whole force being labeled by the actions of a few.