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Slight problem with Citroen C5 1.6 HDI Series II
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kangoo1234 wrote: »hi all..... as described this car '05 307 1.6 hdi .....now just starts up and runs 3 sec's then cuts out, checked fuel supply ok, checked turbo turning freely ok, checked codes none found, checked timing belt ok, the car puts out alot of black smoke in that 3 sec like its getting fuel but no air!! cat seems ok, have no data list so dont no any sensor readings ....ring any bells wiyh anyone??
Could be...
(1)egr stuck open.
(2)Air dosser stuck closed/restricted not allowing air into the engine.
If its the 90 bhp it will have a single air dosser which has one butterfly the 110 bhp (with dpf) has a double air dosser which has 2 butterfly valves.
If its the 90bhp check and the butterfly is opened on startup.
If its the 110bhp follow the turbo to engine intake hsoe and you will see two butterfly valves,one of them bypasses the interooler during a dpf regen and the other is used to shut down restrict the air into engine.Remove the rubber hoses and check if there opened/closed..??
(3)Could be fuel primer bulb leaking back diesel to tank allowing an airlock...but this should not create a blast of smoke on start up.
There should be some p-codes logged...
..what code reader diagnostic equipment are you reading the faults with...?? 0 -
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kangoo1234 wrote: »update.......the shaft in the turbo is broke!!!! i can hold the little nut on exhaust when started. would this prevent it from running at idle, surely air doesnt need to be forced in at idle?? on advice from main dealer they said replace turbo and oil supply pipe, remove sump and clean out, clean strainer in sump and new oil and filter etc.....But!! possible it could happen again!! peugeot wont cover warranty less the service history is good.....well its not great not my fault...previous owner!!! they said it happened them before, other advice from same dealer was a second hand engine with low mileage... now confused??
Not so good news...:(
If the shaft has excess play then the turbo is blown,the engine should still run even with the turbo blown...
It should bring up some fault when its cutting out.
Seen a 307 1.6hdi a few weeks ago with a blown turbo and it was driving poorly (no power) and again no fault codes were logged....:rolleyes:
If the intake butterfly valve was stuck closed then this would restrict the air intake to engine....you really would need to graph live data when its running for the short time and see whats happening.
If the engine has good oil pressure and the milage is'nt to high it should be worth while fitting a new turbo.
Here is some useful info before changing turbos on the dv6 engine.
it points out that using the correct oil and keeping well within the service intervals is critical on these engines
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The PSA 1.6HDi, DV6TED4 engine is a highly sophisticated low emission, high power diesel unit. It is used in many different applications; Citroen, Ford, Mazda, Mini, Peugeot and Volvo.
Due to the engine being clean and powerful, it is designed to operate at high temperatures, which demands the very best lubricants. These lubricants must be maintained in peak condition and PSA have fitted an in-line oil filter to the turbo and an integral oil cooler/oil filter to this engine to ensure this. However there is a drawback to this; reports in the field indicate that if the engine has been operated with the oil level below normal limits, this may potentially cause a high concentration of carbon in the oil. This may then lead to blockage of the in-line filter, oil cooler and main oil filter, which will eventually bring on premature turbo failure. The vacuum pump may also suffer from this same type of contamination.
However, due to its high operating speeds (230,000 revs per minute) the turbo will usually be the first to show signs of damage. This can happen from 30,000 miles onwards if the oil level and correct oil change intervals/procedure have not been adhered to.
Experience to date suggests that the carbon build up in this application is particularly difficult to remove.
To try to eliminate the potential for further turbo failure, the following MUST be undertaken by the garage, in addition to the normal recommended turbo fitting instructions:
• TURBO OIL FEED PIPE & BANJO BOLTS MUST BE CHANGED.
• OIL PUMP SHOULD BE REMOVED AND CHECKED.
• SUMP MUST BE REMOVED AND OIL STRAINER (PICK UP) SHOULD BE CLEANED/REPLACED BEFORE RE-FITTING NEW TURBO TO REMOVE RESIDUAL CARBON/SLUDGE BUILD UP.
• OIL COOLER AND FILTER ASSEMBLY SHOULD BE REMOVED AND CLEANED.
• REMOVE CHARGE AIR COOLER, DRAIN OFF ANY OIL INSIDE AND CLEAN THOROUGHLY.
• CHECK AND CLEAN ALL INLET AND OUTLET HOSES.
• IF OIL HAS LEAKED FROM PREVIOUSLY DAMAGED TURBO OR ENGINE INTO EXHAUST, CHECK EXHAUST SYSTEM FOR CONTAMINATION/BLOCKAGE (CATALYST, DPF etc.)
• REMOVE BRAKE VACUUM PUMP TO CHECK FOR DEBRIS/CARBON AND CLEAN AS NECESSARY.
• FIT NEW OIL FILTER AND OIL.
• CHECK FUEL INJECTOR GASKETS ARE NOT BURNT OR COMPROMISED. REPLACE AS NECESSARY
• OIL FLOW MUST BE CHECKED:
1. FIT TURBO TO ENGINE LEAVING OIL RETURN PIPE OFF
2. INSTALL A LONGER OIL RETURN LINE AND FEED INTO SUITABLE CONTAINER
3. START ENGINE AND IDLE FOR 60 SECONDS, THEN SWITCH OFF ENGINE
4. MEASURE VOLUME OF OIL IN CONTAINER - 60 SECONDS OF IDLE SHOULD PRODUCE AT LEAST 0.3 LITRES OF OIL.
5. REPEAT TEST TWO OR THREE TIMES TO CONFIRM OIL FLOW IS CORRECT
6. DURING THIS TEST, DO NOT ALLOW ENGINE TO RUN BELOW MINIMUM OIL LEVEL!!
7. VEHICLE SHOULD BE DRIVEN 20 to 30 MILES THEN THE OIL/FILTER REPLACED AGAIN.
Another thing a peugeot mechanic was telling me is that they usally remove the strainer (altogether) in the turbo feed pipe behind the dpf.
And here is more.
OIL CHANGE PROCEDURE ON ALL DV6 ENGINES
It is necessary to follow a specific oil change procedure on all DV6 and DV6U engines so as to ensure that no used oil remains to mix with the new oil.
The following method must be used:
• The engine oil temperature must be at least 50°C :
- the engine oil temperature is considered to be at 50°C when the water temperature indicator is between 80°C and 90°C or the cooling fan has cut in
• ensure that the vehicle is level (side to side and fore and aft)
• remove the oil filter to allow the circuit to drain completely
• remove the oil filler cap and the dipstick
• remove the drain plug
• allow the oil to drain by gravity for at least 10 minutes (DO NOT USE SUCTION METHODS)
• fit a new oil filter
• refit the drain plug with a new sealing washer
• fill the engine with quantity of oil recommended for the engine
• refit the oil filler cap and the dipstick
• run the engine at idle until the oil pressure warning lamp goes out (about 1 minute)
• wait 5 minutes
• check the oil level using the dipstick: the level should be as close as possible to, but not exceeding the maximum mark (1) so as to be between (1) and (3)
For information, the lower mark (2) = Min (0%) the upper mark (1) = Max (100%) the intermediate mark (3) = ¾
4 of 4
CONSEQUENCES OF NOT KEEPING TO THE OIL CHANGE INTERVALS
If the customer does not have the oil changed at the recommended intervals, the oil will become excessively polluted and will no longer ensure the correct lubrication of the engine. One of the first consequences is inadequate lubrication of the turbocharger bearings causing a failure which is repeated after the turbocharger is replaced. Subsequent symptoms resulting from the reduced level of lubrication will be a noisy engine and then destruction of the engine.
We remind you that if the customer does not keep to the servicing intervals recommended in the Maintenance and Guarantee Guide, the customer will be responsible for the durability of the mechanical parts of the engine.
In this case, the any related repairs needed are not covered by the new vehicle warranty.
CONSEQUENCES OF NOT FOLLOWING THE OIL CHANGE PROCEDURE
If the oil changes are not done as described above, all deposits of old oil will not be removed and will very quickly pollute the new oil, accelerating the ageing of the oil in the engine lubrication circuit (even causing the oil to congeal).
The consequences for the engine are the same as if the oil change intervals are not observed. As a result, any related repairs needed are not covered under the new vehicle warranty.
Quote from an independent garage....
There are big problems with poor oil change routines on 1.6HDi's causing oil clogging in cylinder head galleries, turbo supply lubrication pipes etc which is the cause for repeated turbo failure.
When replacing a failed turbo it is imperitive to replace the oil supply/return pipes. You also need to remove the sump and check the gauze on on the pump for any blockages.
Finally a good check so see if there is serious internal blockages, remove the brake vacuum pump - there's a little gauze inside that. If that has signs of blockage then you've got some serious internal clogging going on.
We've had a brand new turbo literally fail within 100 mile from the impellor seizing up and the nut which secures it on the shaft coming undone and wedging in the fan blades. This particular one was an extreme case and ended up having a new engine!0 -
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kangoo1234 wrote: »is there an a flap in turbo?
The turbos have no flap but they are a Variable geometry turbo which are used on alot of vw's audi's etc....99% turbo problems on these are related to
poor service intervals or not using the correct grade of oil.
With 75,000 miles i think fitting a new turbo should be work fine once the engine oil pressure is reading within it recommended parameters.
With fitting the new turbo its critical to follow all the info i posted in the last
post.
If the engine is cutting out after startup then i'm thinking there more than turbo problems.....
Whats the history on this car....?
1)Did you buy it as a no runner...?
2)Did it just start losing power while driving or did it just fail to run some morning..?0 -
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sorry to drag up an old thread, but my car has started to exhaust fumes out of the top of the engine near the plugs, just on one cyclinder, anyone able to tell whats going on/ gone wrong?
Is it a gasket or worse?
Fumes coming out by yellow arrow, good bit of oil by the red arrow.
I'll ad some photos and a video
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An injector seal has gone. It's common enough with that engine and any experienced mechanic or dealer should have no problem with it. I don't know the price but I would guess it's less than €100. You don't need to stop driving the car but generally the sooner you get it done the easier the job. Also, you only need to fix the faulty one and leave the others alone.
(BTW: There are no plugs on a diesel engine, those round things with pipes and hoses are fuel injectors.)
Hi Wheelnut, thanks for that
, I was sure the engine was fcuked 0
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