Slight problem with Citroen C5 1.6 HDI Series II

THE LINK WALSH

Ive a 2005 C5 series II 1.6HDI,its running rough ticking over especially when i start it cold in the morning and evening,a fella i know plugged one of these cheap diagnostic machines into it and told me it was a rail oil pressure fault and that changing the rail oil pressure sensor would fix the problem,a new is €43 from the main dealer,i havent fitted this yet but Ill have to do something with it soon,was half thinking about dropping it into main dealer altogether incase its something else thats wrong.

What do you fellas reckon?,change the rail oil pressure sensor and hope for the best or give it to the main dealer and just pay more??,ive heard many scary stories about these 1.6 HDI engines,theres 103 thousand kms on the car.

Wheelnut

Don't do what your friend says anyway, because there is no such thing as a rail oil pressure sensor!

There is a common fuel rail which has a pressure sensor but in view of your friend's incompetence I would leave that alone too.

These engines can last a long time if they get regular attention from a competent mechanic, it doesn't have to be a dealer. You could have dirty injectors but they're a bitch to get out of that engine so you will need somebody with the right tool.

If there is no "fault light" showing on the dash the problem has to be something that has no feedback to the ECU. That could rule out all sensors and rule in the injectors or the air filter. Get proper advice.

PARKHEAD67

THE LINK WALSH wrote: »

Ive a 2005 C5 series II 1.6HDI,its running rough ticking over especially when i start it cold in the morning and evening,a fella i know plugged one of these cheap diagnostic machines into it and told me it was a rail oil pressure fault and that changing the rail oil pressure sensor would fix the problem,a new is €43 from the main dealer,i havent fitted this yet but Ill have to do something with it soon,was half thinking about dropping it into main dealer altogether incase its something else thats wrong.

What do you fellas reckon?,change the rail oil pressure sensor and hope for the best or give it to the main dealer and just pay more??,ive heard many scary stories about these 1.6 HDI engines,theres 103 thousand kms on the car.

Never buy citroen or anything French.Thats what I was always told. Had a renault-trouble.Citroen are bad news.

delly

While thats a bit of a sweeping statement, I don't think thats going to help the OP, unless of course you happen to have a DeLorean handy in order to turn back time?

Row

As wheelnut has said there is no such thing as a rail oil pressure sensor.
But there is a High pressure common rail sensor and there is an oil pressure sensor.
If you pick up the p-code(s) that were logged we maybe able to help.

After that you need to get it on some good diagnostic equipment to view the rail pressure..dpf status...etc

What milage is on the engine...??
These engines can run alittle rough when the dpf is going tru a regeneration.

THE LINK WALSH

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Never buy citroen or anything French.Thats what I was always told. Had a renault-trouble.Citroen are bad news.

Ive personally owned 4 Peugeots and 2 Citroens without ever encountering any problems of note,my Wife drives an 07 Citroen Grand Picasso HDI thats never given an ounce of trouble since we bought it new,my father owned around 10 Peugeots and Five Citreons in his time without experiencing much bothe either,id buy one ahead of almost anything else on the market.

THE LINK WALSH

Thanks for the help so far lads,its a strange one this alright considering there isnt any light coming on the dash,i put a can of that Deisel Cleaner into the tank a few Weeks ago but I dont think it had much/any affect,theres 103 thousand Kms on the car,maybe i should just bite the expensive bullet and give to to the main dealer.

I could keep driving it as it is,its not the most annoying thing ever but id be worried I might be doing the engine harm.

Row

THE LINK WALSH wrote: »

maybe i should just bite the expensive bullet and give to to the main dealer.

There are also alot of good indepentent Garages out there that would just as good as some main dealers.
What part of the country are you based in....?

THE LINK WALSH

Row wrote: »

There are also alot of good indepentent Garages out there that would just as good as some main dealers.
What part of the country are you based in....?

Kilkenny,Id know a few good independent garages around these parts but id be hoping the main dealer might have come across the same problem before and would right it for me without much hassle,would i be doing damage to the engine i wonder?

Row

THE LINK WALSH wrote: »

Kilkenny,Id know a few good independent garages around these parts but id be hoping the main dealer might have come across the same problem before and would right it for me without much hassle,would i be doing damage to the engine i wonder?

If you get your hands on the P-code that your friend picked up i can see
what could be generating this fault...:)

If there were any major problems related to the engine then you should get a
"depollution fault" been displayed.
These engines are well monitored with alot of different sensors feeding back to the ecu...if there is something amiss then you would usally here about it with flashing lights/beeps.
If you do bring it into the main dealers let us know how you get on....:)

shamwari

A tenner says he deleted the code to turn the light off....:rolleyes:

Row

shamwari wrote: »

A tenner says he deleted the code to turn the light off....:rolleyes:

shamwari....You've came across this before then...:)
Most people think once the fault is cleared then everything should be fine.
They never think what caused the fault to come up in the first place..:rolleyes:

Nonoperational

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Never buy citroen or anything French.Thats what I was always told. Had a renault-trouble.Citroen are bad news.

How helpful. Bloody stupid comment too.

The fault code should reappear after a while if the fault is still present. I'd give it to a main dealer or good mechanic and they should sort it.

THE LINK WALSH

No light ever appeared on the dash,i just asked a lad with a cheapie diagnostic machine to plug it in and tell me what was up and he announced that i needed a fuel rail pressure sensor,Id be happier to get it checked out properly,ill give it to the main dealer and let ye know what happens.

shamwari

@ OP, When was the last time the diesel filter was changed?

@Row, do these thing have a low pressure lift pump in the tank?

THE LINK WALSH

shamwari wrote: »

@ OP, When was the last time the diesel filter was changed?

@Row, do these thing have a low pressure lift pump in the tank?

Its a good while ago,around 15000kms ago to be exact,the car is due a service around now,i always get all the filters changed at every service with a local garage,I use Castrol Magnatec 5w30 fully Synthetic oil,he does a fairly competant job on it but i dont know if he'd be able to get to the bottom of my engine problem without the necessary diagnostic equipment,im not a great believer in these Snap On etc multifunction TECH 2s that fellas are buying for around €1000 or so,surely a main Citroen dealers equipment will be far more accurate to the cars ECU??

I used to service the cars myself when I owned Peugeot 306 SDI and TDI,it was a lot simpler to get at the filters back then theres far more removing to be done these days apart from that itself I wouldnt go near a rail oil pressure engine for fear of doing something wrong.

Row

shamwari wrote: »

@ OP, When was the last time the diesel filter was changed?

@Row, do these thing have a low pressure lift pump in the tank?

Just thinking of the same thing shamwari...:)...With any low pressure problem ths fuel filter is the first port of call.


shamwari..No these don't have a low pressure pump in tank...the have a lift pump build into the High pressure pump.


@THE LINK WALSH
...if the common rail high pressure sensor was faulty your car would be in limp mode (would not rev over 2500 rpm's) and the car would have not power.
Ideally you would need to monitor the rail pressure on live data with some
good diagnostic equipment.

As shamwari said if the diesel filter was not replace lately then this would be the first thing to changeout.
Let us know how you get on...:)

Wheelnut

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Never buy citroen or anything French.Thats what I was always told. Had a renault-trouble.Citroen are bad news.

Would you consider Fords, Volvos and Mazdas to be OK? They are all available with this engine!

Row

Op.....Do you get any power hesitation/lack of power around 1800-2200 rpms while driving...??
Sticking Egr valves can also cause poor running and hesitation around 1800-2200 rpms on the 1.6 hdi's.
Just another taught....:)

THE LINK WALSH

Row wrote: »

Op.....Do you get any power hesitation/lack of power around 1800-2200 rpms while driving...??
Sticking Egr valves can also cause poor running and hesitation around 1800-2200 rpms on the 1.6 hdi's.
Just another taught....:)

I do notice this an odd time,would it be expensive to sort sticking EGR valves?,as I said earlier i splashed a can of diesel cleaner into the tank a few Weeks ago but it had no affect.

Row

THE LINK WALSH wrote: »

I do notice this an odd time,would it be expensive to sort sticking EGR valves?,as I said earlier i splashed a can of diesel cleaner into the tank a few Weeks ago but it had no affect.

Cleaning the egr valve can prevent it from jamming up soot altogether....if there left to long they can stick and fail.
Here is the location of the egr on the 1.6 hdi...if your handy with the tols you could give your own a cleaning...:)



This is the motor part of the egr been fitted to the mechanical end...after it was cleaned.


Before it was cleaned...


There is a guide on cleaning the egr valve here but its £10 per year to join.
http://www.407owners.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1797

slimjimmc

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Never buy citroen or anything French.Thats what I was always told. Had a renault-trouble.Citroen are bad news.

A friend once traded in his old, high milage but trouble-free 407 and bought a younger B4 Passat. Over 2yrs he had 1 breakdown, replaced window regulator, a dead battery, engine oil pressure switch that was pi55ing out oil and rear brake drum assys that had to be replaced because they kept failing NCT balance test. He was impressed by the mpg but being elderly and not keen on getting stranded again he soon got shot of it and got an Xantia instead. Since then has had another Xantia and is on his 2nd C5. Never had a bit of trouble with any of them and each of them passed the NCT first time. His only grief was a bit of bumper damage due to some dozy reversing, but sure what can you expect, it's French :rolleyes:.

shamwari

Row wrote: »

@THE LINK WALSH
...if the common rail high pressure sensor was faulty your car would be in limp mode (would not rev over 2500 rpm's) and the car would have not power.
Ideally you would need to monitor the rail pressure on live data with some good diagnostic equipment.

As shamwari said if the diesel filter was not replace lately then this would be the first thing to changeout.
Let us know how you get on...:)

Yeah I'd go with the filter first. OP, these things are actually quite user-friendly to replace. If you get a replacement one, look closely at it and you should be able to work out from it just how to remove the original and connect in the pipework. They are a much cleaner solution than their predecessors. Just prime the rubber bulb once the new one is installed and you will be fine (same engine in Ford cars have no bulb and are a pig to change. You need a hand primer or a mini vacuum pump to get the diesel into the filter). On the subject of diesel, do you fill up at a reputable outlet? Sometimes poor running can be down to suspect fuel and there are a number of outlets I know of where I wouldn't fill my car up

Row wrote: »

Op.....Do you get any power hesitation/lack of power around 1800-2200 rpms while driving...??
Sticking Egr valves can also cause poor running and hesitation around 1800-2200 rpms on the 1.6 hdi's.
Just another taught....:)

Just thinking about that one Row. The EGR system on those engines are quite precise and any jamming or misoperation of the EGR is likely to throw a P04xx code. I would imagine that this would / should have been picked up on the code scan. The other possibilty is that the code that was retrieved might have been a P1xxx code, and these as you know are manufacturer / vehicle specific. If this is the case, the code retrieved might have been interpreted for a completely different car. The notion that the rail pressure sensor is faulty doesn't add up either. Rather than a car limping, if the sensor sees low or insufficient pressure then is usually results in a show stopper. If you have any kind of a leak from the HP system, diesel @ 300bar of pressure is not something you want firing around under the bonnet:D

shamwari

Just had a thought: OP you can try disconnecting the MAF at cold startup and see how it behaves, and see if the roughness is gone? The car will be down on power if you drive it, but it will be interesting to see if the car idles properly.

THE LINK WALSH

shamwari wrote: »

Just had a thought: OP you can try disconnecting the MAF at cold startup and see how it behaves, and see if the roughness is gone? The car will be down on power if you drive it, but it will be interesting to see if the car idles properly.

Whats MAF?,the Air intake pipe id imagine

THE LINK WALSH

Row wrote: »

Cleaning the egr valve can prevent it from jamming up soot altogether....if there left to long they can stick and fail.
Here is the location of the egr on the 1.6 hdi...if your handy with the tols you could give your own a cleaning...:)



This is the motor part of the egr been fitted to the mechanical end...after it was cleaned.


Before it was cleaned...


There is a guide on cleaning the egr valve here but its £10 per year to join.
http://www.407owners.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1797

Brilliant info here Row,ill attack this tomorrow at lunchtime,id have access to an aerosol can of Brake Cleaner,its used for the preparation of surfaces for applying silicone gasket and at around €30 a can must be good stuff,id imagine using it to clean up this EGR valve before giving it a good rub of a rag will be ok?

Row

shamwari wrote: »

Just thinking about that one Row. The EGR system on those engines are quite precise and any jamming or misoperation of the EGR is likely to throw a P04xx code. I would imagine that this would / should have been picked up on the code scan. The other possibilty is that the code that was retrieved might have been a P1xxx code, and these as you know are manufacturer / vehicle specific. If this is the case, the code retrieved might have been interpreted for a completely different car. The notion that the rail pressure sensor is faulty doesn't add up either. Rather than a car limping, if the sensor sees low or insufficient pressure then is usually results in a show stopper. If you have any kind of a leak from the HP system, diesel @ 300bar of pressure is not something you want firing around under the bonnet:D

Ye these go up to 1600bar when under heavy load...:eek:

I have seen a mechanic try to crack open an injector pipe on one of these Once...needless to say I said "If you open that I'm out of here"...:rolleyes:
Leak back test is the only way to go.

Its very possible that the code reader is bringing up a totally different fault.
I think Lexia 3 is best Citroen/Peugeot as this is what the dealers use...:)

Row

THE LINK WALSH wrote: »

Brilliant info here Row,ill attack this tomorrow at lunchtime,id have access to an aerosol can of Brake Cleaner,its used for the preparation of surfaces for applying silicone gasket and at around €30 a can must be good stuff,id imagine using it to clean up this EGR valve before giving it a good rub of a rag will be ok?

At Lunchtime....:eek:....:)
I'd leave it till a Saturday or maybe you could nose your car into a your garage at home some evening.
Just watch the way the motor comes from the valve itself....also to get the motor off you'll have to pull up the diesel filter and remove the filter bracket to get to the torx screws on the egr motor.
I usally us compressed air as the soot just blows free from the valve.
Its important that the rollers on the valve are free to move...to remove the
egr valve totally can be tricky as its awkward to get to...:rolleyes:

Row

THE LINK WALSH wrote: »

Whats MAF?,the Air intake pipe id imagine

This is the mass airflow meter...its just before the airfilter box....:)

THE LINK WALSH

Row wrote: »

At Lunchtime....:eek:....:)
I'd leave it till a Saturday or maybe you could nose your car into a your garage at home some evening.
Just watch the way the motor comes from the valve itself....also to get the motor off you'll have to pull up the diesel filter and remove the filter bracket to get to the torx screws on the egr motor.
I usally us compressed air as the soot just blows free from the valve.
Its important that the rollers on the valve are free to move...to remove the
egr valve totally can be tricky as its awkward to get to...:rolleyes:

Sound,Ill have a go at it on Saturday,take my time at it,ive a compressor at home so will be able to blow it out,ill change the fuel filter then aswell and let ye fellas know how shes running next Week,not an error code or light to be seen on dash so these things must be worth a try.

Many thanks for the info lads.

kangoo1234

hi all..... as described this car '05 307 1.6 hdi .....now just starts up and runs 3 sec's then cuts out, checked fuel supply ok, checked turbo turning freely ok, checked codes none found, checked timing belt ok, the car puts out alot of black smoke in that 3 sec like its getting fuel but no air!! cat seems ok, have no data list so dont no any sensor readings ....ring any bells wiyh anyone??

Cerdito

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Never buy citroen or anything French.Thats what I was always told. Had a renault-trouble.Citroen are bad news.

I love this, it's what keeps 2nd hand values for Citroens nice and low.

Here's hoping to pickup a 2008 C5 for <€10k in a couple of years' time (current '02 C5 130k miles and going strong)

Wheelnut

@Kangoo: has this happened in the last few days? Any chance that the fuel could be freezing? There should be winter grade fuel at all garages at this time of year but if you somehow got summer grade you could have problems.

Row

kangoo1234 wrote: »

hi all..... as described this car '05 307 1.6 hdi .....now just starts up and runs 3 sec's then cuts out, checked fuel supply ok, checked turbo turning freely ok, checked codes none found, checked timing belt ok, the car puts out alot of black smoke in that 3 sec like its getting fuel but no air!! cat seems ok, have no data list so dont no any sensor readings ....ring any bells wiyh anyone??

Could be...
(1)egr stuck open.
(2)Air dosser stuck closed/restricted not allowing air into the engine.

If its the 90 bhp it will have a single air dosser which has one butterfly the 110 bhp (with dpf) has a double air dosser which has 2 butterfly valves.
If its the 90bhp check and the butterfly is opened on startup.
If its the 110bhp follow the turbo to engine intake hsoe and you will see two butterfly valves,one of them bypasses the interooler during a dpf regen and the other is used to shut down restrict the air into engine.Remove the rubber hoses and check if there opened/closed..??

(3)Could be fuel primer bulb leaking back diesel to tank allowing an airlock...but this should not create a blast of smoke on start up.

There should be some p-codes logged.....what code reader diagnostic equipment are you reading the faults with...??

THE LINK WALSH

Lads,Since i posted on this thread last ive got the C5 fully serviced,took out the EGR valve and cleaned it and had one injector re-seated,there was a bit of blow out of it,this was all done fairly cheaply in an independant garage,HLR Motors New Ross,they looked after me well and were very reasonable,theres still the slightest rock out of the engine whilst idling that hes putting down to possibly the flywheel being the smallest bit out/worn,not something he reckons i need to be worrying about and Im happy not to worry about it,the car is flying since albeit parked up since last Monday on account of all this snow.

Thanks for all the help.

kangoo1234

update.......the shaft in the turbo is broke!!!! i can hold the little nut on exhaust when started. would this prevent it from running at idle, surely air doesnt need to be forced in at idle?? on advice from main dealer they said replace turbo and oil supply pipe, remove sump and clean out, clean strainer in sump and new oil and filter etc.....But!! possible it could happen again!! peugeot wont cover warranty less the service history is good.....well its not great not my fault...previous owner!!! they said it happened them before, other advice from same dealer was a second hand engine with low mileage... now confused??

kangoo1234

oh forgot to mention there were no codes, im using the Autel maxidiag fr704....and its the 90bhp .

Row

kangoo1234 wrote: »

update.......the shaft in the turbo is broke!!!! i can hold the little nut on exhaust when started. would this prevent it from running at idle, surely air doesnt need to be forced in at idle?? on advice from main dealer they said replace turbo and oil supply pipe, remove sump and clean out, clean strainer in sump and new oil and filter etc.....But!! possible it could happen again!! peugeot wont cover warranty less the service history is good.....well its not great not my fault...previous owner!!! they said it happened them before, other advice from same dealer was a second hand engine with low mileage... now confused??

Not so good news...:(
If the shaft has excess play then the turbo is blown,the engine should still run even with the turbo blown...
It should bring up some fault when its cutting out.

Seen a 307 1.6hdi a few weeks ago with a blown turbo and it was driving poorly (no power) and again no fault codes were logged....:rolleyes:

If the intake butterfly valve was stuck closed then this would restrict the air intake to engine....you really would need to graph live data when its running for the short time and see whats happening.

If the engine has good oil pressure and the milage is'nt to high it should be worth while fitting a new turbo.
Here is some useful info before changing turbos on the dv6 engine.
it points out that using the correct oil and keeping well within the service intervals is critical on these engines
.

The PSA 1.6HDi, DV6TED4 engine is a highly sophisticated low emission, high power diesel unit. It is used in many different applications; Citroen, Ford, Mazda, Mini, Peugeot and Volvo.
Due to the engine being clean and powerful, it is designed to operate at high temperatures, which demands the very best lubricants. These lubricants must be maintained in peak condition and PSA have fitted an in-line oil filter to the turbo and an integral oil cooler/oil filter to this engine to ensure this. However there is a drawback to this; reports in the field indicate that if the engine has been operated with the oil level below normal limits, this may potentially cause a high concentration of carbon in the oil. This may then lead to blockage of the in-line filter, oil cooler and main oil filter, which will eventually bring on premature turbo failure. The vacuum pump may also suffer from this same type of contamination.
However, due to its high operating speeds (230,000 revs per minute) the turbo will usually be the first to show signs of damage. This can happen from 30,000 miles onwards if the oil level and correct oil change intervals/procedure have not been adhered to.
Experience to date suggests that the carbon build up in this application is particularly difficult to remove.
To try to eliminate the potential for further turbo failure, the following MUST be undertaken by the garage, in addition to the normal recommended turbo fitting instructions:

• TURBO OIL FEED PIPE & BANJO BOLTS MUST BE CHANGED.
• OIL PUMP SHOULD BE REMOVED AND CHECKED.
• SUMP MUST BE REMOVED AND OIL STRAINER (PICK UP) SHOULD BE CLEANED/REPLACED BEFORE RE-FITTING NEW TURBO TO REMOVE RESIDUAL CARBON/SLUDGE BUILD UP.
• OIL COOLER AND FILTER ASSEMBLY SHOULD BE REMOVED AND CLEANED.
• REMOVE CHARGE AIR COOLER, DRAIN OFF ANY OIL INSIDE AND CLEAN THOROUGHLY.
• CHECK AND CLEAN ALL INLET AND OUTLET HOSES.
• IF OIL HAS LEAKED FROM PREVIOUSLY DAMAGED TURBO OR ENGINE INTO EXHAUST, CHECK EXHAUST SYSTEM FOR CONTAMINATION/BLOCKAGE (CATALYST, DPF etc.)
• REMOVE BRAKE VACUUM PUMP TO CHECK FOR DEBRIS/CARBON AND CLEAN AS NECESSARY.
• FIT NEW OIL FILTER AND OIL.
• CHECK FUEL INJECTOR GASKETS ARE NOT BURNT OR COMPROMISED. REPLACE AS NECESSARY
• OIL FLOW MUST BE CHECKED:
1. FIT TURBO TO ENGINE LEAVING OIL RETURN PIPE OFF
2. INSTALL A LONGER OIL RETURN LINE AND FEED INTO SUITABLE CONTAINER
3. START ENGINE AND IDLE FOR 60 SECONDS, THEN SWITCH OFF ENGINE
4. MEASURE VOLUME OF OIL IN CONTAINER - 60 SECONDS OF IDLE SHOULD PRODUCE AT LEAST 0.3 LITRES OF OIL.
5. REPEAT TEST TWO OR THREE TIMES TO CONFIRM OIL FLOW IS CORRECT
6. DURING THIS TEST, DO NOT ALLOW ENGINE TO RUN BELOW MINIMUM OIL LEVEL!!
7. VEHICLE SHOULD BE DRIVEN 20 to 30 MILES THEN THE OIL/FILTER REPLACED AGAIN.

Another thing a peugeot mechanic was telling me is that they usally remove the strainer (altogether) in the turbo feed pipe behind the dpf.


And here is more.

OIL CHANGE PROCEDURE ON ALL DV6 ENGINES

It is necessary to follow a specific oil change procedure on all DV6 and DV6U engines so as to ensure that no used oil remains to mix with the new oil.

The following method must be used:

• The engine oil temperature must be at least 50°C :
- the engine oil temperature is considered to be at 50°C when the water temperature indicator is between 80°C and 90°C or the cooling fan has cut in
• ensure that the vehicle is level (side to side and fore and aft)
• remove the oil filter to allow the circuit to drain completely
• remove the oil filler cap and the dipstick
• remove the drain plug
• allow the oil to drain by gravity for at least 10 minutes (DO NOT USE SUCTION METHODS)
• fit a new oil filter
• refit the drain plug with a new sealing washer
• fill the engine with quantity of oil recommended for the engine
• refit the oil filler cap and the dipstick
• run the engine at idle until the oil pressure warning lamp goes out (about 1 minute)
• wait 5 minutes
• check the oil level using the dipstick: the level should be as close as possible to, but not exceeding the maximum mark (1) so as to be between (1) and (3)

For information, the lower mark (2) = Min (0%) the upper mark (1) = Max (100%) the intermediate mark (3) = ¾
4 of 4

CONSEQUENCES OF NOT KEEPING TO THE OIL CHANGE INTERVALS

If the customer does not have the oil changed at the recommended intervals, the oil will become excessively polluted and will no longer ensure the correct lubrication of the engine. One of the first consequences is inadequate lubrication of the turbocharger bearings causing a failure which is repeated after the turbocharger is replaced. Subsequent symptoms resulting from the reduced level of lubrication will be a noisy engine and then destruction of the engine.

We remind you that if the customer does not keep to the servicing intervals recommended in the Maintenance and Guarantee Guide, the customer will be responsible for the durability of the mechanical parts of the engine.
In this case, the any related repairs needed are not covered by the new vehicle warranty.

CONSEQUENCES OF NOT FOLLOWING THE OIL CHANGE PROCEDURE

If the oil changes are not done as described above, all deposits of old oil will not be removed and will very quickly pollute the new oil, accelerating the ageing of the oil in the engine lubrication circuit (even causing the oil to congeal).

The consequences for the engine are the same as if the oil change intervals are not observed. As a result, any related repairs needed are not covered under the new vehicle warranty.


Quote from an independent garage....
There are big problems with poor oil change routines on 1.6HDi's causing oil clogging in cylinder head galleries, turbo supply lubrication pipes etc which is the cause for repeated turbo failure.

When replacing a failed turbo it is imperitive to replace the oil supply/return pipes. You also need to remove the sump and check the gauze on on the pump for any blockages.

Finally a good check so see if there is serious internal blockages, remove the brake vacuum pump - there's a little gauze inside that. If that has signs of blockage then you've got some serious internal clogging going on.

We've had a brand new turbo literally fail within 100 mile from the impellor seizing up and the nut which secures it on the shaft coming undone and wedging in the fan blades. This particular one was an extreme case and ended up having a new engine!

kangoo1234

there was alot of reading in that!!!! it all makes sense but the question is which job should i do turbo or engine......less i got an engine with low mileage sure i should still clean out system !!this car has 75thou miles, not sure what to do. the butterfly valve on the hose after the inter cooler is opened i even put in a screwdriver to keep it opened incase if this is the one you talk about but i dont under stand why it dont run on idle, is there an a flap in turbo? i even removed the shiny pipe from egr that goes in after butterfly flap and blew air in with air line to increase air in cylinder but made no difference.....i sent it to a dealer and its them that say its the turbo so im a bit puzzled???

Row

kangoo1234 wrote: »

is there an a flap in turbo?

The turbos have no flap but they are a Variable geometry turbo which are used on alot of vw's audi's etc....99% turbo problems on these are related to
poor service intervals or not using the correct grade of oil.

With 75,000 miles i think fitting a new turbo should be work fine once the engine oil pressure is reading within it recommended parameters.
With fitting the new turbo its critical to follow all the info i posted in the last
post.
If the engine is cutting out after startup then i'm thinking there more than turbo problems.....

Whats the history on this car....?
1)Did you buy it as a no runner...?
2)Did it just start losing power while driving or did it just fail to run some morning..?

rex-x

Wheelnut wrote: »

If there is no "fault light" showing on the dash the problem has to be something that has no feedback to the ECU. That could rule out all sensors and rule in the injectors or the air filter. Get proper advice.

This is not true in the slightest, only serious faults produce mil light, loads of codes appear but can only be seen by diagnostics

kangoo1234

car was driving fine....drove 10 miles to a destination, switched off sat for 20 min restarted but noticed a vibration?? like down a cylinder... drove round the corner and no more, alot of black sooty smoke but not taking throttle properly.....towed home, restarted....ran ok then died down ,revved slightly, wouldnt take the rev, more smoke so just switched off til next day.....after that just would start up run 3 sec and cut out. previously to this happening the car was bought 6 months ago, there was always a rattle from the top end, seemed to be coming from the timing belt/left top under rocker cover side so i replaced belt/kit and water pump but rattle stil there.....is there a chain for cam on these engines?? if so oil ways contamination problem could be here too!!!! this is why i wonder about engine state! service history previous is not great:(.....i didnt buy it originally and wouldnt have!!!! but stuck with it now!! is there a chain in these engines behind the belt side??

Youngblood.III

sorry to drag up an old thread, but my car has started to exhaust fumes out of the top of the engine near the plugs, just on one cyclinder, anyone able to tell whats going on/ gone wrong?
Is it a gasket or worse?
Fumes coming out by yellow arrow, good bit of oil by the red arrow.
I'll ad some photos and a video

Youngblood.III

Another photo..

Youngblood.III

Video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrmVcDfWkWc

Wheelnut

An injector seal has gone. It's common enough with that engine and any experienced mechanic or dealer should have no problem with it. I don't know the price but I would guess it's less than €100. You don't need to stop driving the car but generally the sooner you get it done the easier the job. Also, you only need to fix the faulty one and leave the others alone.

(BTW: There are no plugs on a diesel engine, those round things with pipes and hoses are fuel injectors.)

Youngblood.III

Wheelnut wrote: »

An injector seal has gone. It's common enough with that engine and any experienced mechanic or dealer should have no problem with it. I don't know the price but I would guess it's less than €100. You don't need to stop driving the car but generally the sooner you get it done the easier the job. Also, you only need to fix the faulty one and leave the others alone.

(BTW: There are no plugs on a diesel engine, those round things with pipes and hoses are fuel injectors.)

Hi Wheelnut, thanks for that , I was sure the engine was fcuked