Minor car collision on roundabout-disputing liability!!

lir6777

I was in a minor car crash last week and the other driver is disputing liability. I feel I was definitely in the right but would appreciate people’s opinions???
I approached a roundabout in the left lane as I was going straight ahead (the RSA and the roadsigns for this specific roundabout all say this is correct). There were a couple of cars on the roundabout so I came to a complete stop and waited. After they passed, there was nothing coming from my right at all, so I began to move off. I had passed a minor exit and was just in second gear, doing approx 15/20 miles ph as I began to pass the left turn exit . I was not indicating nor turning at all, as I was continuing to the next exit, when a car hit the front of my vehicle from the right side. This car had been intending to take the exit I was currently passing (except I was of course in his way). He had come from the right exit (as I would have seen it from my movements on the roundabout). He had been in the righthand lane and was going straight on.
The force of his car turned my car so that I was facing a traffic island in the direction he had been going, and I mounted the island before managing to swerve to avoid hitting a sign and stopped my car. He meanwhile had passed in front of me and spun 360 degrees before managing to stop.
We called the gardai who took reports but we both believe the other is to blame and my insurance premium will double if I lose my NCB!!!
The other driver is saying that I cut out in front of him but I maintain there was nothing to my right when I entered that roundabout, and I certainly couldn’t have cut him off in 2nd gear!!
Any advice please???

Dohnny Jepp

From reading your half of the story I believe you are not to blame.

corktina

it sounds as if you were taking the third exit (or later)...you mention a minor exit and the one you werent taking. If this is the case you may have been in the wrong lane and should have been indicating right until changing to left at the exit before the one you were taking.Having said that the other guy must have been travelling at some speed to move you AND spin round, so its hard to say.All in all it seems he hit you and you were well out on to the roundabout so doesnt sound as if you pulled out in front of him.

guil

unless it was a big roundabout i cant see how the other person would have enough speed to A: knock the OP's car so much off course and B: get around so quick

a link to google streetview would help a lot

2qk4u

It could be that either you didnt see him when you pulled out or he was travelling too fast on the roundabout and cought up with you. I would imagine its the later.

mikemac

lir6777 wrote: »

Any advice please???

I would take a few minutes and sit down and draw some diagrams.
It will help explain it better to the insurance company. You can always fax them to their office

lir6777

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=103191476115701509038.000494f120021da0b0378&ll=52.674406,-8.67468&spn=0.000763,0.002411&t=h&z=19

This is the roundabout, it is quite large.
I was coming from the exit at the bottom marked N18. The TP came from the N7 at the right of the screen. This image is old and there is a new exit which I was taking. It was straight ahead for me and so my lane was correct and is not under dispute. Our cars hit roughly where the green labelling and the white labelling meet at the left lower of the image.
I reiterate that I was in 2nd gear, so it is possible that he caught up with me as pointed out by one post. The TP did not even know which exit I had come from afterwards.

slimjimmc

TP changed lane without first ensuring it was safe to do so (otherwise there'd be no collision), that's a big no-no and considering you didn't give any indication to suggest you were taking the same exit as him, it seems to me he mistakenly assumed you were going the same way as him.

djimi

TP moved into your lane when it was not safe to do so. He would have not hit you had he been watching where he was going. He is at fault.

Shane Slv

i know this roundabout quite well, from what i can gather you were coming from the condell road side and going to tescos at coonagh ?

cursai

slimjimmc wrote: »

TP changed lane without first ensuring it was safe to do so (otherwise there'd be no collision), that's a big no-no and considering you didn't give any indication to suggest you were taking the same exit as him, it seems to me he mistakenly assumed you were going the same way as him.

This is true in logic...but unfortunately your insurance companies might take a different stance. if it is a disputed accident in terms of liability, both insurance companies might come to a 50/50 agreement over liability. What opinion the Gardai at the scene took n their RTA report will play a big part when the underwriters make their decision!

Pat81

you stay in left lane if you are taking the 1st or 2nd exit and in right if you are exiting third moving to left before exit

cursai

Pat81 wrote: »

you stay in left lane if you are taking the 1st or 2nd exit and in right if you are exiting third moving to left before exit

What if the third exit is directly straight ahead of the lane you took to enter the roundabout. Left lane? Right lane because its the third exit?

**Timbuk2**

Actually which lane you approach the roundabout in is determined by where the exit is, in relation to the clock face (as opposed to what number exit it is). Any exit up to 1 o clock, and you should be in the left lane. Any exits from 1 to 6 o clock and you should be in the right lane. This is the official stance that the RSA takes.

Source: (Message from RSA): http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998652&page=1

T-Maxx

Sorry OP - waste of time asking around here - no one knows how a roundabout works....

salonfire

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Actually which lane you approach the roundabout in is determined by where the exit is, in relation to the clock face (as opposed to what number exit it is). Any exit up to 1 o clock, and you should be in the left lane. Any exits from 1 to 6 o clock and you should be in the right lane. This is the official stance that the RSA takes.

Link?

corktina

looks to me still as if you were taking the third exit which is not straight across but a bit past it....

CharlieCroker

It's not up to you or the other party to admit liability, it's up to the insurance company as they'll be the one paying out. They'll request a report from the gardai who were at the scene. The 2 insurance companies will work off this to decide on liability.

IMO though from what you've said, it would be hard for the other drivers insurance company to dispute the facts.

highlydebased

I'm always overly cautious using the Coonagh roundabout. He was in the wrong lane if my reading of your story is correct. People are clueless when using it.

Turtwig

When exiting the roundabout the driver is expected to be in the left lane (unless road markings dictate otherwise - very rare). If you are in the right lane and need to get into the left lane to exit, you must give right of way to traffic already in the left in lane. From what I read of your story you were most certainly not in the wrong. Even if you had done 7 360s on the roundabout in the left lane prior to the collision, the driver on right is meant to yield the right of way to you before he changes to left lane to exit. So he's in the wrong unless you weren't paying attention and put foot on the gas just as he switched lanes after given adequate signalling. Sadly, some people think the right lane is the fast lane and they have right of way to all other lanes. I'm guessing that's what he was thinking too. My take is that you shouldn't be liable for anything. If you told us the same story that you told the guards and other eye witnesses corroborate it, then I'd imagine the guards will back up on this.

lir6777

Shane Slv wrote: »

i know this roundabout quite well, from what i can gather you were coming from the condell road side and going to tescos at coonagh ?

Yes that's right

lir6777

Malty_T wrote: »

If you told us the same story that you told the guards and other eye witnesses corroborate it, then I'd imagine the guards will back up on this.

Unfortunately no-one stopped so we have no witnesses!:(

corktina

the Ennis Rd to N18 is two lane and the guy was quite entitled to go round the roundabout in the RH lane and exit in the right lane(indeed I believe that is how it is markled out).he should however have been taking notice of the OP who was ahead of him and made sure he could stop in an emergency. Clearly he couldnt and is at fault for being careless.
having said that, if it was a legal lane to be in, the OP should have been indicating right as he passed the second exit, you can't ignore a turn-off because its "minor".

Turtwig

lir6777 wrote: »

Unfortunately no-one stopped so we have no witnesses!:(

I wouldn't worry, should be fairly obvious from where the vehicles's impact marks and ground marks are. That's also a witness.;)

Turtwig

corktina wrote: »

the OP should have been indicating right as he passed the second exit, you can't ignore a turn-off because its "minor".

No s/he shouldn't have been. The OP was going the exit straight from his entry point. He doesn't have to signal right, any more that you don't signal right when passing the left exit on the standard 4 exit/entry roundabout when you are going straight on.

**Timbuk2**

salonfire wrote: »

Link?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998652&page=1 (response from RSA).

I edited my post and added the link.

Zubeneschamali

lir6777 wrote: »

Any advice please???

Contact your insurance company. Give them full details, by which I mean everything you've been asked for here. Tell them the other driver is 100% in the wrong but claiming otherwise. Tell them you spoke to the Gardai. Make it clear that you will swear to the details of the incident in court.

Good luck.

Mr. Presentable

It doesn't matter what lane or exit the OP was using if they were in the left-most one. Right or wrong usage of lane by the OP is neither here nor there. The other driver changed lanes without care and is therefore imho wrong.

Skuxx

I know this roundabout OP and I've often thought which lane would be the correct to be in when coming from condell road heading to tesco! I think the right hand lane is the proper one cause your passing two exits and its slightly more than straight ahead!! Thats just my opinion on it but its up to insurance companies to sort out!

dr.fuzzenstein

The way I see it that he was on your inside, changing lanes and since you where in the way he just decided to ram out.
Looks like the guy is A: thick, B: stupid and C: greedy.
I wouldn't put it past him that he thought you where in the wrong and figured "hey, if I t-bone that guy I can cream his insurance".
Because no one and I mean no-one can be so THICK as to change lanes in a roundabout into the path of another car.
Don't give him an inch and tell your insurance company you smell a rat.

Turtwig

alan1990 wrote: »

I know this roundabout OP and I've often thought which lane would be the correct to be in when coming from condell road heading to tesco! I think the right hand lane is the proper one cause your passing two exits and its slightly more than straight ahead!! Thats just my opinion on it but its up to insurance companies to sort out!

Both lanes are actually correct. The thing is that if you use the roundabout regularly the left lane would be a better choice mainly because that exit to tescoes is single laned. That said, taking the right lane is deemed acceptable afaik although with prior knowledge of the roundabout the left lane is definitely the way to go.