Thoughts on McNabb

tommyboyle

The number around the league is dwindling but there are still a sizeable number of those who think McNabb is still an elite quarterback. There are also those who still criticize philly for trading him. They believe philly would still be a better team with him even though the 3rd round draft pick we got is now our starting safety. And last but not least: there is talk about the Shanahans being racists for benching McNabb for saying he couldn't grasp the two minute offense. They also said he lacked the cardiovascular ability to do it. Opinions?

landsleaving

The idea that it mght be racist seems a bit ridiculous to be honest. Probably Shanahan saw it as a coaching move, try to get him motivated to prove he can still be a franchise qb.

Personally, I wouldn't call him elite, but he's certainly capable of being very, very good on his day. He's in that second tier of QB's, below Brees, Manning, Brady and maybe Rivers and Rodgers. He's good, but not consistent enough, and not being as good as he can be this year.

Maybe Shanahan saw how he reacted to being benched in Philly and wants a similar response? Who knows, I can't see it going that way though.

mikemac

An excellent QB though not elite

Have to laugh at the mess in the last game.
He is there six months and the Head coach turns around and says he is not familiar with the 2 minute offense and also calls into question his fitness and conditioning.
After six months if you starting QB is not up to speed then the blame falls on the coach!

You can throw a lot of criticism at McNabb but cannot say he is unfit and out of shape this season.

It was a real slap in the face but to address the OP it never once occurred to me there was a racist motive. I don't believe that happened at all

Imo McNabb will move on in the off season, either to the Vikings or Cardinals
Both teams would welcome him

tommyboyle

I agree with you 100% with you about the rascist thing. Why cant shan say he couldnt grasp the offens thing without being racist. If anything the people who jump the gun and call him racist are just trying to create a stir. As a life long eagles fan I can promise that he is noooo good at the 2 minute offense. And the stats prove it. I forget the number but they were dismal

landsleaving

I can't imagine they were worse than Rex Grossman's

davyjose

landsleaving wrote: »

He's in that second tier of QB's, below Brees, Manning, Brady and maybe Rivers and Rodgers.

What the hell has Rodgers done to show he's elite? I'm still waiting to see what the fuss is about tbh.

Philco71

McNabb is a hell of an improvement on Campbell anyway. Hopefully this mess the other week against the Lions will blow over. The Redskins have a lot of other needs without bringing in a new quarterback next season.

neilster

davyjose wrote: »

What the hell has Rodgers done to show he's elite? I'm still waiting to see what the fuss is about tbh.

You are gas ....attacking guys and no points yourself ...its too early to call Rodgers him elite but i think in 3 years we will be calling him that

Rivers has to be in elite company and apart from Brady the only multi-winner of Superbowls Rothlisberger ...not a nice guy ....but we arent handing out humanitarian awards...he gets it done

neilster

Philco71 wrote: »

McNabb is a hell of an improvement on Campbell anyway. Hopefully this mess the other week against the Lions will blow over. The Redskins have a lot of other needs without bringing in a new quarterback next season.

I have a feeling Shan is unconvinced by McNabb, there is no contract extension and i for one dont expect him in DC in 2011...id say Shanahan could trade up for Andrew Luck or Ryan Mallett (Mallett could land in his lap where he will be in draft)

neilster

tommyboyle wrote: »

I agree with you 100% with you about the rascist thing. Why cant shan say he couldnt grasp the offens thing without being racist. If anything the people who jump the gun and call him racist are just trying to create a stir. As a life long eagles fan I can promise that he is noooo good at the 2 minute offense. And the stats prove it. I forget the number but they were dismal

The slowest 2 minute offence in history in the SuperBowl stands out when his own players couldnt understand the lack of urgency

i think he was out of gas ...and i think there might be something in the conditioning argument

tommyboyle

Watching that two minute drill in the SB was the worst time in my life. Whether or not he vomitted he was awful

davyjose

neilster wrote: »

You are gas ....attacking guys and no points yourself ...its too early to call Rodgers him elite but i think in 3 years we will be calling him that

Rivers has to be in elite company and apart from Brady the only multi-winner of Superbowls Rothlisberger ...not a nice guy ....but we arent handing out humanitarian awards...he gets it done

So basically you're agreeing with me?

What points do you want me to make? You want me to join in criticising Mcnabb. Fair enough, I don't think he's the QB he once was, but he was a great player for Philly, and when they do look like building another deep playoff team, they show him the door. Then he's supposed to make a difference in a new system with a Head Coach who shows him little respect?

My point about "attacking" Rodgers, as you so put, was that he seems to have earned a lot of respect for having done so little so far. Whereas Mcnabb who has been one of the great franchise QB's of the last decade, and has earned his reputation, seems to get easily disregarded.

tommyboyle

It wasn't a disrespectful thing to show McNabb the door. He would be having a better year if he was still here. Kolb was ready to take over and don was on the decline. Now was the time to make a deal. We now have a starting strong safety who is one of the few bright spots on the team. The eagles and fans were prepared for an 8 and 8 season so kolb could gain some experience. Then the new Vick came along.

davyjose

tommyboyle wrote: »

The eagles and fans were prepared for an 8 and 8 season so kolb could gain some experience. Then the new Vick came along.

That wouldn't have happened with or without Vick. It certainly wouldn't happen with Mcnabb at the helm.

Peyton Manning could hardly make a throw longer than 5 yards for half the game. That doesn't happen often, and it wasn't down to Vick.

This is a good Eagles team, and i think McNabb would've had a very good season.

Lets be honest, kolb hasn't shone when he's been given the chance. Take Vick out of the equation (because he wasn't part of this) and you've ditched your franchise QB for an average one, who after 2 games, lost his place -- something that hadn't happened McNabb in ten years.

Philly got lucky getting a reborn Vick. They sure as hell don't deserve him. McNabb got poorly treated IMO.

tommyboyle

How do the eagles not deserve vick? I didnt hear about any other team ready to take the pr hit to sign a guy two years removed from the league to serve a jail term. I hope as much as anyone that the eagles have a good team but lets face it the d isnt that good. You point out stopping manning. Does the name kenny britt ring a bell. We will have a much better year with vick than we would have with mcnabb. Kolb deserved the chance to start. The same way vick cant be judged elite because of his body of work, you cant judge kolb. He is the only guy in history to throw for 300 yds in his first two games. Mcnabb was paid over 100 million dollars by the birds. They owe him nothing.

davyjose

You traded a franchise QB so you could start a mediocre QB. Turns out Kolb isn't good enough, but hey presto, the backup - last years 3rd choice guy - turns out to be back to his best.

That's lucky, man. Even reid wasn't expecting to get that lucky, or he'd have started Vick from day 1.

Kolb deserved the chance to start. The same way vick cant be judged elite because of his body of work, you cant judge kolb.

Reid made the judgement after 2 games.

tommyboyle

McNabb is on a strong decline. This year would have been rough for kolb, growing pains. Next year the assumption was he would come into hus own. By bad luck he got hurt and vick stepped in. The fact that vick played out of his mind changed the birds mindset from growing pains year to possible deep playoff run. This team got lucky that they got a third round pick for mcnabb. everyone sees how effective he is. Philly is finally getting validated by the national sports media. Aside from a few people, mostly on this thread, people think reid did the smart thing at the exact right time

neilster

davyjose wrote: »

So basically you're agreeing with me?

What points do you want me to make? You want me to join in criticising Mcnabb. Fair enough, I don't think he's the QB he once was, but he was a great player for Philly, and when they do look like building another deep playoff team, they show him the door. Then he's supposed to make a difference in a new system with a Head Coach who shows him little respect?

My point about "attacking" Rodgers, as you so put, was that he seems to have earned a lot of respect for having done so little so far. Whereas Mcnabb who has been one of the great franchise QB's of the last decade, and has earned his reputation, seems to get easily disregarded.

I;ll have to apologise to you there but Rodgers has looked very good without achieving a lot yet .....like Tallaght mentioned on the different tiers of QBs ...like a wedding cake he is on the good QB tier i would say

he is there with Schaub , Eli (people may disagree there ) , Romo (maddens me tho) ... i would say ...certainly having spent last year mostly running for his life or on his back ..how he lived i dont know ...elite would be kind but if he wins clutch games thie year well....

it looks like Green Bay will have record to be at the business end so we will start this convo again at xmas

landsleaving

davyjose wrote: »

What the hell has Rodgers done to show he's elite? I'm still waiting to see what the fuss is about tbh.

I may have to admit to having a man-crush on him to be honest

neilster

davyjose wrote: »

You traded a franchise QB so you could start a mediocre QB. Turns out Kolb isn't good enough, but hey presto, the backup - last years 3rd choice guy - turns out to be back to his best.

That's lucky, man. Even reid wasn't expecting to get that lucky, or he'd have started Vick from day 1.



Reid made the judgement after 2 games.

I think there is ample evidence both coming from the Eagles but also interviews that Reid and Jeff Lurie gave that Reid had a fair idea of how Vick potentially could be

He started to explore the idea of moving for Vick a good ways out from Vicks release, this involved getting the GM on board and then a co-odinated approach to Jeff Lurie about Vick . Luries wife like a lot of owners wives is involved with and on the board of charities in the greater Philly metro area chief amongst them were animal charities ......so a severely sceptical Lurie was slowly brought on board with the idea .

Couple that with what Peter King wrote when Vick was signed first ...that it was very bad for McNabb..at the time they had a potential saviour in Kolb ...this is after season where Kolb came in and showed real poise ....and with Vick as backup ...no need for McNabb

but i think what King was getting at and hadnt said cos Vick was damaged goods was that there may have been more afoot and Reid felt he couldnt lose...he thought he could fashion something special in Vick and if not or Vick was lazy etc he could dangle him for picks and had insurance ...and if Vick ever turned himself around ....Kolb was worth a first or 2nd pick plus lesser draft picks

we might do well to respect Reid a little more when it comes to QBs ...this is down to luck...as this is a strange year and you could be eating humble pie in january

tommyboyle

It would do well to remember who was Favre's qb coach way back when, when Favre was redefining himself in Green Bay. Yup, it was the fat man

neilster

davyjose wrote: »

That wouldn't have happened with or without Vick. It certainly wouldn't happen with Mcnabb at the helm.

Peyton Manning could hardly make a throw longer than 5 yards for half the game. That doesn't happen often, and it wasn't down to Vick.

This is a good Eagles team, and i think McNabb would've had a very good season.

Lets be honest, kolb hasn't shone when he's been given the chance. Take Vick out of the equation (because he wasn't part of this) and you've ditched your franchise QB for an average one, who after 2 games, lost his place -- something that hadn't happened McNabb in ten years.

Philly got lucky getting a reborn Vick. They sure as hell don't deserve him. McNabb got poorly treated IMO.

Research the Vick signing , there is quite a lot of stuff on it including an in depth interview with the Phillys GM , owner Jeff Lurie and Andy Reid. These interviews were done last summer before Vick 2.0 started displaying his improvement . They first thought of the signing a whole year beforehand and Luries' wife is an animal welfare campaigner so it wasnt easy to get ownership to agree

I certainly believe that Reid knew Vicks weaknesses and i certainly believe from his own QB training background that he could make improvements to his pocket passing and that a lot of the athleticism could come back

i dont think it is a fluke and you would do well to look into it ...maybe Reid dint know it could be so good so quickly

eagle eye

After Belichick I rate Andy Reid as one of the top coaches in the league. He is certainly in my top 5.

You got him, Jeff Fisher, Coughlin and Sean Payton for me as the top 5. I hate Coughlin but he is a great coach. Shanny would probably be next.

Dohnny Jepp

Andy Reid would be one of the top coaches in the league if not for his time management **** ups.

frostie500

It's worth remembering that Vick was a former number 1 draft pick and he always had one of the strongest arms in the league. What he never had was guidance, either from an elite QB (McNabb) or an elite coach (Reid). In Atlanta he came in as a savior with the front office treating him as a star and giving him anything he asked for.

His first headcoach was the experienced Don Reaves and he did well under him. In 2002, his only season as the starter where he played a meaningful amount of games, and took the Falcons to the playoffs where they were beaten by the Eagles, no shame in that. It was after this period that things started to go wrong for Vick.

In his first three years in the league Vick became a massive star and when Jim Mora Jr came in he already thought he had it made and didnt take his new coach seriously. He's admitted that he didnt watch tape and that he had no work ethic whatsoever and as a result his performances started to decline.

When he came to Philie he still possessed all the skills that made him a number 1 pick and one of the most exciting players in the NFL. With the leadership of McNabb and the Eagles coaching staff he has become a "pros pro" by all accounts and dilligently works on his craft. While the Eagles expected Kolb to be their starter after McNabb they also knew they had the insurance blanket of Vick in case things didnt work out. Its clear that they didnt expect to use Vick so early but they knew that with McNabb getting older they needed to see what they had in Kolb and while McNabb would have done well this season I think the front office made a decision that with young skill players they had the potential to build with Kolb for the next 10 years whereas with McNabb it would have been win or bust over the next two years.

As an Eagles fan I love McNabb for everything he did for the team. I have little doubt that in the 10 or 11 years I've been watching football that he is one of the best of his era but I can also understand why the team made the decision to move on without him in the future. At the end of the day the NFL is a business where you need constant results and the Eagles felt that an aging McNabb didnt offer the long term value of Kolb/Vick. Most teams get to a point like this with their QBs look at Montana and the Niners. He is arguably the best qb of all time but he was still cast aside by his team

davyjose

"Vick this, Vick that..."

Is anyone telling me the Eagles expected Vick to play like this?

The Eagles got lucky lads, simple as...

neilster

davyjose wrote: »

"Vick this, Vick that..."

Is anyone telling me the Eagles expected Vick to play like this?

The Eagles got lucky lads, simple as...

i told you davy to go and find out about this ...if you dont know ...then say you dont know ...if you dont like the guy then fair enough ...but if i give you the answer cos i researched it and then you dont and then come up with the same crock of **** ...oh man

the great thing is on any given sunday ...vick seems to be coming up and burning your dislike of him everytime

neilster

eagle eye wrote: »

After Belichick I rate Andy Reid as one of the top coaches in the league. He is certainly in my top 5.

You got him, Jeff Fisher, Coughlin and Sean Payton for me as the top 5. I hate Coughlin but he is a great coach. Shanny would probably be next.

its interesting that Fisher has burned VYoung tonite ...probably the most secure job in the NFL and id put Belichek in behind hin even

Him and Bud Adams are really close but Adams adores Young so i feel VY may have been on a tightrope...Fisher is no Chilly he knows the where the mines are before he makes a big decision

so we can probably say that VY wont be in Tennessee cos it seems that bridges have been burned

Vick for Nashville, Andrew Luck ???

tommyboyle

What the hell happened in nashville tonight? I keep hearing snippets but never the whole story

davyjose

neilster wrote: »

i told you davy to go and find out about this ...if you dont know ...then say you dont know ...if you dont like the guy then fair enough ...but if i give you the answer cos i researched it and then you dont and then come up with the same crock of **** ...oh man

the great thing is on any given sunday ...vick seems to be coming up and burning your dislike of him everytime

try harder!!!

:rolleyes:

neilster

davyjose wrote: »

try harder!!!

:rolleyes:

I see Vick continues to burn your opinion and McNabb continues his MVP season at the Redskins lol providing me with a great laugh

neilster

davyjose wrote: »

"Vick this, Vick that..."

Is anyone telling me the Eagles expected Vick to play like this?

The Eagles got lucky lads, simple as...

details of McNabbs 2010 deal

2010: $3.5 million
McNabb receives a $3.5 million signing bonus in addition to existing amounts for this year.
2011: $13.5 million
The Redskins owe a $10 million option bonus in the first days of the 2011 League Year, whenever that may be, an offseason workout bonus of $250,000, a $2.5 million salary and a potential $750,000 in 45-man active roster bonuses. If the option is not exercised, McNabb will be a free agent having with a $3.5 million parting gift.
2012: $13.25 million
McNabb has a $12.25 million salary, $250,000 workout bonus and a potential $750,000 in active roster bonuses. If McNabb is on the roster as of April 1, 2012, $6.25 million of the salary becomes guaranteed for skill.
2013: $14.75 million
McNabb has a $13 million salary, $250,000 workout bonus and potential $1.5 million in 45-man active roster bonuses.
2014-2015
I place little value to contracts beyond their first three years, assuming no guaranteed money left, but here is the remainder of the contract extension:
Salary 45-man roster bonus Workout bonus
2014 $13.75 million $3 million $250,000
2015 $13.5 million $2.25 million $250,000
The final years bring the total amount to $78 million. There are also $10 million of potential bonuses and playoff incentives.
De-escalator
McNabb’s salary is reduced by $750,000 in each subsequent year following a year in which the Redskins do not win at least eight games, starting next season. This is a potential loss of $3.75 million to McNabb.
Three-year value
The total value is a number with little meaning compared to the year-by-year value over the first three new years:
One year: $17 million
Two year: $30.25 million
Three year: $45 million
Taking that $15 million average over three new years – more realistic than the $15.76 average of the five new years – this is where McNabb places among average salary for some of the top veteran quarterbacks (in millions).
Tom Brady 18
Eli Manning 16.25
Carson Palmer 15.9
Phillip Rivers 15.3
McNabb 15
Peyton Manning 14
Brett Favre 14
Aaron Rodgers 12.25
Guarantee
There is close to $34 million in total injury guaranteed money, payable only if unable to play in a subsequent season(s) due to an on-field injury. Injury guarantee payouts are rare.
The only skill guarantee -- payment if released for any reason beyond injury -- is $6.25 million in 2012 if McNabb is on the roster as of April 1 of that year. For a young, ascending player, the lack of skill guarantees would not be as much a concern, but for a player turning 34, the deal is light in guaranteed money.
Positives for the Redskins
They bring their starting quarterback under contract for as long as they want him or can trade him with years remaining on his contract. They limit their exposure on the skill guarantee for a 34 year-old player to $6.25 million, and only if McNabb is on the roster in 2012, and avoid a funding requirement for future guaranteed money with the NFL. They have limited risk following this year’s $3.5 million upgrade. They negotiated some further risk protection with a de-escalator clause of $750,000 for each year McNabb playes and has a losing record. They retain their Franchise tag in approaching an uncertain labor environment next year.
Positives for McNabb
This was a deal McNabb had to take, despite the limited skill guarantee. Although the Redskins can release him prior to next year – which they won’t – he will be in the same place he would have been without the deal, a free agent with $3.5 million in his pocket for his trouble.
In the event the Redskins release or trade him after 2011, he will have made $17 million, a figure that exceeding the expected Franchise tag of $16 million for quarterbacks. In the event the Redskins release or trade him after two new years, he will have made $31 million. Could McNabb have expected to make $30 million over the next two years in free agency? Or $45 million over the next three years? That may have been difficult

cooker3

Well he is benched for rest of the season so he is 100% leaving the Redskins, that's for sure.

bobby wade

Rex Grossman to start

Yeah, I see Jones open on the flank. But **** that. Dumpoff passes are for douches. I'm ****ing Sexy Rexy Grossman. I can get that ball in there. And, even if I can't, I bet I'll be able to pull it off the next go round. I like throwing the ball long. It makes my dick hard.

What's that? I should throw a quick slant? **** that. That's lame. Button hook? Lame. Flare out? Lame. Screen pass? Dane Cook lame. This is ****ing football. You can't just expect wins to come to you. You can't massage that ****. You gotta grab that game by the throat and rape the ever-loving **** out of it. You think a 5-yard out is gonna win you a game? You're a pussy. This ain't John Shoop running this offense. Sexy Rexy's got the arm. The dragon. You gotta unleash the dragon.

Okay, I'm throwing it. Nice. Look how far it went. I look good. I bet I made that Pats cheerleader wet her panties with that throw. She ****ing wants me. I bet she likes it over a stair railing. I can hit that with 100% accuracy, my dear. Mmmmmm. I am delicious.

Oh ****. Looks like Samuel caught it. Again. Oh well. It still felt ****ing great to throw that ****. Tell me that wasn't one of the prettiest passes you ever saw. You know what? Not only am I gonna throw it long the next time we hit the field. I'm gonna throw it even longer. Harder. You see that kid in wheelchair sitting in the end zone bleachers? I'm gonna nail him right between the ****ing eyes with a Sexy Rexy fastball. Why? Because I can.

This is Rex Grossman we're talking about here. We're talking 210 lbs. of twisted steel and sex appeal. I'm not just a gunslinger. I'm a cumslinger. Throwing that ball long tells all the Rexettes that I am ****ing out there. On the edge. Where I gotta be. The ladies love the danger. The unpredictability. Oh, maybe I'll tease them with a pretty touch pass every now and again. But then I'm gonna go right back to pumping that ball out for all it's worth. It tells them I throw like I ****. That's how we do things in the sexy business.

Tell me you're not turned on right now. I am.

mikemac

McNabb is not even 2nd string but now 3rd string behind John Beck

neilster

feelingstressed wrote: »

McNabb is not even 2nd string but now 3rd string behind John Beck

this is a complex situation ...it now seems apparent that the Redskins can sit on McNabbs rights until the end of the 2011 season which is 15 months away

It also suits McNabb to sour the water by doing a "Hainsworth" ...it seems obvious that details of exchanges between Shanahan Senior and Junior may come out ....Donovan may not have thought of this tactic until relatively recently but now that he realises that the Redskins can look for trade-bait for a long 15 months it suits him to be let go.....he obviously has a superior cv to Matt Leinart but there are parallels and if McNabb wants to be in Phoenix for example D.C. could sit on him so better to make trouble and get shipped ...my hunch is that the Shanahans thought that McNabb was doing some things deliberately

Syferus

The irony of ironies is that Grossman played better today than McNabb has pretty much all year. Shanahan seems like he's got a screw loose but honestly, if Rex grossman goes out and makes you look bad with the same offense McNabb has to look as much to himself as his surroundings.

neilster

Syferus wrote: »

The irony of ironies is that Grossman played better today than McNabb has pretty much all year. Shanahan seems like he's got a screw loose but honestly, if Rex grossman goes out and makes you look bad with the same offense McNabb has to look as much to himself as his surroundings.

it seems pretty clear that Andy Reid and Shanahan have both dumped McNabb in a pretty short time, while Shanahan has acted without class all he wants to do is improve things

Just like in Denver Rex whilst not ideal is a game lad and maybe more limited than a Jake Plummer but is the person to manage the transition whilst they get an elite QB or at least someone who may get there , i cant see the Redskins not chasing Kolb in conjunction with a draft day trade or the QB with the biggest arm in the draft , if Luck is gone ...maybe Newton?
Shanahan has been here before with Cutler