Cavity Wall Insulation

Antrim_Man

Do none of the cavity wall bead fellas not provide a thermal image as part of the guarantee of their work????

PauloMN

Antrim_Man wrote: »

Do none of the cavity wall bead fellas not provide a thermal image as part of the guarantee of their work????

I'm just guessing here, but I would imagine that would double the price of the work if they did.

maddragon

You could get a separate expert to provide a thermal imaging scan for a couple of hundred euro.

Antrim_Man

maddragon wrote: »

You could get a separate expert to provide a thermal imaging scan for a couple of hundred euro.

And if it finds large areas not insulated do you get the bead company to come back and fill them and reimburse the cost of the thermal image? Could this be agreed before the work commences?

headmaster

I just want to add an interesting result to an experiment I carried out in the past few weeks. Aprox 5 years ago i got my own house and an investment property insulated (cavity). One property i used the pumped bead insulation, in the other i used the pumped fluffy type(mousey colour) insulation. I cannot remember the exact cost, but it was reasonable enough. Both houses are almost identical 4 bd room, 2500 sq ft detached houses, with hip roofs, so 4 equal walls to the eaves to be filled. As I said, recently i carried out the experiment by having both properties thermal imaged, to see was there any settlement of the insulation. The bead insulation had a ver slight settlement, very slight, in one corner of a south facing wall, the other insylation was exactly as the day it was done, perfect. I was delighted with both results, as i had been told that the fluffy stuff would have settled more, although my friend who did the imaging for me (free, as a favour) told me that the bead does settle ever so slightly more than the blown in fluffy stuff. I've no intention of topping up, as the amount is hardly worth talking about, but it goes to show that if it's well done, it really does stay there and do the job. I'm a happy camper and hope this of benefit to the forum and people who are wondering about it.

Moanin

PauloMN wrote: »

I'm just guessing here, but I would imagine that would double the price of the work if they did.

I asked the installer doing the job on my house last week the exact question and he said it would add alot of cost to the job.

MicktheMan

Moanin wrote: »

I asked the installer doing the job on my house last week the exact question and he said it would add alot of cost to the job.

Did you ask him if the ti survey would add alot to the cost or if having to do the pumping properly (because of the ti survey) would add a lot to the cost?

Antrim_Man

See the thing is, how do we know they have done the job properly. Its not as if we can inspect it

deus ex machina 7

I have been reading this thread because I recently built a house - for under 50,000 euro - but decided to go with natural fibre insulation rather than the beads and fibreglass. The reason for this is health. One poster here talked of an asthma condition triggered by synthetic insulation. There are many problems with this type of insulation which needs further research in terms of the impact on health, specifically auto-immune diseases - see for example sick building syndrome. In any case, I went with German wood fibre inside the walls and natural wool for the attic, bought from a local wool merchant in east Galway. It is very possible that in time to come much of this synthetic insulation will have to be removed from houses because of health issues. I', new to these boards and this is just a thought.

muffler

Antrim_Man wrote: »

See the thing is, how do we know they have done the job properly. Its not as if we can inspect it

As stated above it can be inspected but its gonna cost.

What I advise people to do is ask the installers if they are guaranteeing that the cavity will be completely full. If they are in any way honest at all you get them to agree that when you get the thermal imaging done and if it shows any missed patches they will return, complete the job and pay for the cost of the TI. If the TI shows up a good result then the customer pays for it.

Alternatively they can be told before the work starts that you intend getting the TI done (even though you're not) and if there's anything amiss they will have to come back. That on it's own will guarantee you a good installation nine times out of ten.

headmaster

muffler wrote: »

As stated above it can be inspected but its gonna cost.

What I advise people to do is ask the installers if they are guaranteeing that the cavity will be completely full. If they are in any way honest at all you get them to agree that when you get the thermal imaging done and if it shows any missed patches they will return, complete the job and pay for the cost of the TI. If the TI shows up a good result then the customer pays for it.

Alternatively they can be told before the work starts that you intend getting the TI done (even though you're not) and if there's anything amiss they will have to come back. That on it's own will guarantee you a good installation nine times out of ten.

The reason people give advise is to help others. I suggest you read Post No 96.

BryanF

deus ex machina 7 wrote: »

I have been reading this thread because I recently built a house - for under 50,000 euro - but decided to go with natural fibre insulation rather than the beads and fibreglass. The reason for this is health. One poster here talked of an asthma condition triggered by synthetic insulation. There are many problems with this type of insulation which needs further research in terms of the impact on health, specifically auto-immune diseases - see for example sick building syndrome. In any case, I went with German wood fibre inside the walls and natural wool for the attic, bought from a local wool merchant in east Galway. It is very possible that in time to come much of this synthetic insulation will have to be removed from houses because of health issues. I', new to these boards and this is just a thought.

as were taking this of topic maybe the mods would be kind enough to start a new thread.. or maybe it'll help to defuse/distract the last posters:)

The use of natural materials especially insulation are a real and often straight forward solution from either health or a 'green' perspective. I saw on another post somewhere recently, that a guy deciding on his insulation had a smell of the natural, then oil based product and was quickly able to decide which one was for him..

There is a current obsession with reducing energy costs (a great obsession), but sometimes that is as far as the 'sustainable' thinking goes. There is an argument that the energy invested for energy returned makes certain oil based products (the Phenolic's & uPVC's) worth while to use for energy savings in the long run.. But these are certainly not taking account of the very real risk of our Health especially as you mentioned sick building syndrome or simply put 'human comfort'.
Having studied natural materials and their benefits, I've come down to earth with a bang, when dealing with the majority of self builders (so many building to raise or start a family in!). Many of these toxic materials are accepted, partially because of a lack of understanding but also an apathy as we have gotten so used to them in practically everything around us + plenty of rebuttals form a very big industry when carcinogenic properties are mentioned. For many the problem is these products are preferred by 99% of our builders and also appear cheaper/ or at the very least easier to feel assured they will work because were used to them. imho this is as much about people who are not willing to invest the time and energy to try natural solutions for themselves, but we have also built a regulatory system that hinders anything out of the ordinary.

The other common complaint is the perceived issues of moisture/ humidity in Ireland. this has lead to bias towards block and oil based insulations which are seen as more robust and more vernacular even though the old/ true Irish building materials are straw, earth, stone and reeds.

I commend you for having built with natural insulations and hope you can convince others to do like wise:)

muffler

headmaster wrote: »

The reason people give advise is to help others. I suggest you read Post No 96.

Whats your problem man?

Garville

muffler wrote: »

Holes should be no more than 600mm apart horizontally. See section 2.4.5 on page 5 here


.

Great link, my mind is slightly at ease now. My hole drill dispursion is something similar to the diagram in this document. My confusion arose with the vertical distance. I presumed the horizontal hole distance and the vertical would be similar.

As for my attic area, it is approx. 1500sq feet. Installer added 100mm all over attic, placed lagging around tank, chipboard walkway to tank from trapdoor, and draft spunge around trapdoor. Now, don't tell me this costs €500! The pipes were all lagged already by me and these were not touched, I checked.

The annoying thing is that all companies quoted 500€ for the attic to be done having viewed it. They KNOW you are getting a grant and so factor this in. When I asked my installer why it was so dear, he said thats the price to have an attic done in a standard detached house. Its a fixed price for all as far as i can see. Don't get me wrong, I'll pay a man for work done, but I don't like feeling i'm been had, ya know!

headmaster

muffler wrote: »

Whats your problem man?

I have no problem, i'm simply trying to inform you that if you read post no 96, it might help to alleviate any worries you may have in understanding the settlement of cavity insulation. Nothing more, nothing less, simply trying to help people and maybe even save some money for some people. It may not be of any help to you, that's no reason for you being rude. Oh, by the way, my name is not "man"

muffler

headmaster wrote: »

I have no problem, i'm simply trying to inform you that if you read post no 96, it might help to alleviate any worries you may have in understanding the settlement of cavity insulation. Nothing more, nothing less, simply trying to help people and maybe even save some money for some people. It may not be of any help to you, that's no reason for you being rude. Oh, by the way, my name is not "man"

You quoted a post of mine (doesnt really matter who owned the post) and insinuated that it was not helping or advising anyone. Comments like that arent particularly welcome here regardless of who you were addressing.

We can leave it at that and get back on topic again please.

Moanin

MicktheMan wrote: »

Did you ask him if the ti survey would add alot to the cost or if having to do the pumping properly (because of the ti survey) would add a lot to the cost?

I asked him if the TI survey would add alot to the cost of doing the job