Nocturnal Forum Feedback Thread

Baggly

In association with the Mods of the Nocturnal forum and following leads from other forums who have seen a tail off in posting numbers, this thread has been opened for people to provide feedback on the drop in the numbers posting in the noc forum and to provide ideas on what can be done about it.

This isnt a place for blaming, but frank opinions are obviously wanted.

The noc forum, for me, used to be a hive of activity. While im aware that people come and go during the life of any forum, i think its a crying shame that any forum which previously had such a dedicated, lively and fun community has dwindled to one or two active threads populated by 5 or 6 die hards.

What say ye?

Personally i think some of us (myself included) got carried away with the deadly alliance style threads. So something maybe to watch out for; dont do them again for a long while.

grames_bond

I think it is actually something really stupid....we lost the real lair and people didn't wanna start a new one!

Personally I started a new job so couldn't be "nocturnal" in literal terms anymore!

reallyrose

For any community there is bound to be a little flux, people stop posting for one reason or another. I'm like the poster above, I can't really stay up all night because I have a job. But I don't go out much at the weekend, so I could post then.

But why don't I? Because frankly, the forum is boring. The only thread that ever gets posted in is The Lair. And for the most part, the posts there are "Hi" followed by a "Oh hai!" some hours later. It's a little hard to start a conversation like that!
I'm guilty of my own "oh hai" two word posts, but I shall try harder in future to post something a bit more in that thread.
The Noc. Nerds thread also gets action, but it's not really a talky thread.


I think that we need new people! New people will post, the people that have lost interest / become unavailable due to Real Life might come back if they see more movement on this forum.
I tend to look at this forum about once a day, but I don't post because nothing is happening.
I've noticed that we get the odd new person, they post in the New Nocs thread and then run away again.
The reason for this might be connected to the point above. The Lair is chummy, and that's fine, that's community!
However, as a new person, it's hard to jump into a conversation between people that know each other and are discussing their day.

So, how do we get New People to come to Noc, stay and post while at the same time getting Current Nocs that are here to post and take part more?

I've thought of a few ways of doing this.
1) New threads. I'm certainly not saying that we should spam the face off the forum, but there have been very few new threads lately. Something to get folk talking.
2) Some kind of Event. Maybe we could have the All Night Challenge some weekend? That might be fun! Maybe some kind of Reward for the winner?
(I can't imagine what )
3) I'll stick a link to the forum in my sig as soon as I work out how to do the words-that-are-actually-a-link thing. If a few people do this (I know that people already have this in their sigs, so to you!) it might direct people to our dark sexy embrace.


I know that I am barely a whippersnapper in the World of Noc, but I really like what I have seen of the community, and I'd love to see it more vibrant. You people rock.

tldr; ramble ramble people should post more.

Baggly

I find this is a really good perspective...thanks for sharing it.

Also, ill PM you about the sig thing.

Shiminay

I personally feel the "Social" forums were an experiment on Boards.ie that has had mixed results. Of the 4 forums that really fell into this category, 2 of them have become more serious (tLL and Clearasil & Hormones) and deal with social issues rather than just being a place for a peer group to chat.

On the other hand, we have BGRH and the Noc forum who've had their numbers dwindle in a big way. BGRH is still going reasonably well, but (and I will ask Conor to confirm the numbers for me tomorrow) both it and The Noc have seen a big decline in activity and interest.

Personally, it's lost its appeal for me because of the number of vanilla people who simply wouldn't at least try to understand what us "creatures of the night" with an interest in the ALT side of life were into. Because of that, the alt people this forum was supposed to cater to have left and so the numbers twindle more and more and now there're almost none of them left.

Mostly however, and this touches on what reallyrose has said, overall I think it was too "friendly" - it's not that it was unwelcoming to new people, but because it was such an obviously tight knit bunch of people, no one wants to intrude on that and so as a result it felt very much like a members only place.

My opinion?

Forum's dead and anything worth keeping should just move to tCN which is where the idea for this forum grew out of originally.

[EDIT]
I just wanted to add, my opinion is but one voice of many and doesn't carry any more or weight than anyone else's opinion because I'm either a Mod here or the site Community Manager.

Baggly

And the things worth keeping?

Shiminay

Things like the Doom Motivationals or the Deadly Alliance stuff.

I don't know what grames' point about the Lair is, but one thread closed and another started, it was the same thing. I cannot wrap my head around people's insistence that one single thread is the life-blood of a forum, it's not. The people are. Mega threads like that are structurally damaging to Boards.ie and the sooner people realise that a site this big cannot be at the mercy of one small group of people, the better.

Baggly

Well maybe it was as Grames put it or it wasnt....and maybe its a coincidence people started leaving after the old Lair was shut down. I dont necessarily buy into one causing the other either.....but what has happened in the new lair is as Rose stated above....one or two people carry a conversation and then others pop in to say hello.

That doesnt interest me and if people are to make the noc forum their home again, that HAS to stop; either by more people carrying conversations (hard to enforce) or the one or two pulling back on the in joking and insulated conversations. Not to draw comparisons, but iirc this is one of the main points that came from tLL feedback thread; that a few people were dominating the main thread and it was scaring newcomers and making regulars weary.

Im not above sin.....i think the battle threads were a great idea at first and when they were held in a limited time span once a year, they were great and i enjoyed participating and helping LZ organise them. But i think they pushed some of the alt members who arent into comics away. And that was a mistake, because suddenly you had groups within a group.

With any forum there are going to be factors for a quiet down....im just pissed that the quiet down is so prolonged and that we lost so many good people.

Like in NAM.

Nerin

Wall o text alert!!! :P

Just gonna address some points:

deadly alliance style threads- great and all as they were, some users complained about em crossing over into general chat and other threads. now i know there were a number of people (vanillas i believe is the term <which i hate tbh>) who didn't like them full stop.
i told them then (and now) not to read em and to report anything spilling over and taking over the day to day stuff.

its fairly simple, compromise. don't like it, don't take part. if it starts pushing into your territory send us a pm and we'll sort it. I'm on here nearly every day, i just don't post.

new lair/old lair: i know what grames is referring to. one or two people were pissy about it. but i also know that the boys working in the office have to deal with huge data thingies.
so its just the way it had to be and if those folks really just left for that reason, thats their problem. boards hosts the thing, if its costing/damaging the site, unfortunately it has to go.

New threads: its come up again and again. the mods cant put all their time into creating the content, thats down to users. so maybe the remaining folk could check out the ancient threads or start new ones? that could help

Some kind of Event: has my full support. I'll pimp it in a sig, sticky it,edit it, judge it and if i'm feeling super nice advertise it on my site.

sigs- used to be a big part of the place and worked in the begginning. good call rose

new folk/chummy folk: gonna throw a very personal opinion out. all the forums with chat and such are like that. but thats the way life is. ya can't have a community then burn it down for the new folks, nor can you hold their hands when they come in. the intros thread was set up so the extra nice folk could welcome people in, get a lil chat going and then move over to the main chat thread. i know all the social forums have issues with this, but its the nature of the web and boards.

vanilla vs super alt folk: sick to the teeth of it tbh. not attacking you kharn, i know there are more than just you that see this way. im all for fair compromise. i dont think we should segregate the forum. us vs them is stupid. if people wanna be nerdy as hell about wow or whatever, one group can have a thread for it. if one group wanna talk xfactor and whatever else, thread for it. and if people wanna be all goth and emo, thread for it. general chat is general chat, were everyone should be able to chat. if one thing is clogging it up too much, move it to a thread. or, ya know, talk over them :P

other soc forums: the only reason tll and cnh get that distinction in fairness is because they have the numbers consistently. if we had the numbers and i got my way we'd be the very same. i (and others) often pushed about suicide awareness, bullying and alt social issues. again, super serious stuff got/gets its own thread. simples. its a numbers thing to be honest. i think bgrh was the only one that (numbers willing) wouldnt move to soc and more serious stuff, because the drama wasnt wanted. TD can correct me if im wrong, but afaik they just wanted it to nice, silly and chilled out.

forums dead- well yeah, but we (grudingly) kinda saw that coming. huge activity in the start lead to a burnout soon after. but moving stuff to lord sarkys territory is a bit insulting tbh. not because theres anything wrong with the nest (it has a few lovely people) but because this forum is a seperate thing.
i could easily go along to a load more very quiet semi dead forums and say the same thing.

just leave it, whether it picks up or not, there are still a few who post and use it.

Baggly

Forgive me Nerin, i know you have been invested emotionally and in terms of effort in the forum more than anyone, but IMO thats a terrible opinion....Kharn suggested killing the forum and i suggested trying to revive it actively.....but are you suggesting we just leave it be, make no changes and see what happens?

There is precedent in other forums for making changes for the better. Yes its true that people get chummy and threads become narrow in their appeal to people; and this has an effect on the forum as a whole. If we want people to get involved in the forum the way they used to (new and old) then the flagship thread cant just be dominated by a few people.

And apart from you and Doom and the others being Mods, you are/historically were also the leaders of the forum. I wont speak for others, but i certainly took my lead in terms of enthusiasm and participation from the mods. Im not laying blame on the mods (this isnt a blame thread and i dont think blame will help), but id love to see some enthusiasm for what was a great forum.

I REALLY hate to quote Batman, but Gotham the noc forum isnt beyond saving.....

I dont want to argue with you, but i do want to debate, because this forum is worth debating over.

Nerin

Pter wrote: »

Forgive me Nerin, i know you have been invested emotionally and in terms of effort in the forum more than anyone, but IMO thats a terrible opinion....Kharn suggested killing the forum and i suggested trying to revive it actively.....but are you suggesting we just leave it be, make no changes and see what happens?

thats not what i meant at all. sigh, its late and im super tired, tough to get across what i mean.
i mean dont kill it and move it. even if the revive doesnt work. thats what im saying.

Baggly

Apologies for the misunderstanding so..... Points redacted.

Nerin

Pter wrote: »

Apologies for the misunderstanding so..... Points redacted.

no probs.
like of course i'd love for everyone to use it again and more new people to come in and such.
but-
i'm not above saying when the thing looks dead. i'm all for change, as long as it doesnt put off the folk that already use the place. the handful of them >_> :pac:
but-
i also think moving content to other forums (who possibly wouldnt want it/appreciate our old stuff being thrown at em) is a bad call.

i'm also not in the handholding business, so as reallyrose pointed out, users need to do some work and make new threads. new content is king... or something. of course i'll sticky and edit or whatever ye need, i'm on here most of the day on mobile and while working on my own stuff during the evening.

also, if things on this thread look like i'm being rude, its because i forgot smileys. ill usually say when im being a bastard

Baggly

I should probably have put it in the op that this thread isnt designed to be a criticism of anyone - but especially not of the mods....id like to think that if anyone came in here and gave feedback on things that need changing, that noone (and ill restrain myself as best i can from now) will jump on them or their points straight away and we can discuss them as best we can.

cyberwolf77

What sort of threads would draw people though? I am not doing another Humanitas tourney style thread anytime soon though.

reallyrose

cyberwolf77 wrote: »

What sort of threads would draw people though? I am not doing another Humanitas tourney style thread anytime soon though.

Anything! It doesn't have to be a thread that will shake the foundations of the world! Even something silly and fun!

I'm the worse hypocrite for saying that though, I tend to be really nervous of posting new threads, for fear of being mod-bashed. :-P

What do people think of a Last Man Standing thread?

cyberwolf77

I like that idea. I'll see if I can come up with something meself.

Futurecrook

I haven't posted here in so long because I don't really stay up all that late anymore and I find the place is dead during the day. As was already pointed out, there's not much going on in the forum other than The Lair. It's probably mostly laziness on my part stopping me from post new threads but it's also a worry I suppose (for want of a better term) of what's acceptable in the forum and what's not - especially if I'm going to be considered 'vanilla' for not being 'alt' enough.

Baggly

Honestly never heard that before. Probably means im vanilla?

cyberwolf77

I never called meself 'alt'. I has no tats, no piercings. I basically a comic/horror geek who stays up late.

entropi

My attention has been drawn to this thread And although I was a regular here for nigh on 8-9 months at least, and a casual for the rest...I'd not like to see this forum go down. I can fully understand the hard work, and dedication put into the place by both mods and posters alike you all!, but as has been mentioned, new ideas are needed...sorely needed.

I used to love personally, discussions about the smaller things...like what it's like outside in the night where you are living/posting from, there were always some things dedicated to drawing and it's ilk, and ofc the obligatory supers and food discussion which, apart from the posters themselves, kept me coming back. I was, in the early days of the forum, a true Noc that could stay up all night and post about whatever was on topic (The Lair moved scarily fast back then) and it may have been daunting for new forum-ites to join in I guess, but we got along.

These days though, alot of us have moved on to jobs and college, and realistically cannot be Nocturnal in the sense, but be casual posters and try add in some form of new topic/idea, especially if new posters are attracted to the place.

As for new ideas, the Humanitas threads were a great addition and should be held for special times tbh, like an uncommon event that draws people back and hopefully keeps them posting more, or draws in new posters. Newer styles of thread could possibly be welcome, like stuff normally confined to other fora (astronomy/Nocturnal animals & habits/imagery&drawing etc) that may stem the flow of the death of the forum and may breathe new life into it.

I would love to see this place pick up once again, if I get time I will try get back to posting a bit, but a very heavy college schedule means that currently I cannot. This little gem of a forum is Kharn's baby iirc...lets hope she stays here!

cyberwolf77

Mayhaps a thread devoted to Nocturnal icons be they film, literary, or television.

Nevyn

Kharn wrote: »

Forum's dead and anything worth keeping should just move to tCN which is where the idea for this forum grew out of originally.

Nope this forum grew out of late night posting in bgrh with all sorts happening in the bar late at night and then the late crowd moved on to The Nocturnal forum when it was created for them, so they could frolic here rather then be messing up the bar late at night.


It that bgrh and this place just need some new blood who get the ethos of the forum. I still lurk here now and then but don't tend to post that often. Only posting now cos I am up late doing NaWriNoMo.

Actually that could be fun start a Noc NaWriNoMo.

Posters grow change and move on it happens in forums all the time but when there isnt' a clear ethos or anchor for a forum to drawn new victims contributors in then the fall off is an issue.

Doctor DooM

I'm not going to go into this too much right now, but I will leave my current thinkings here.

This forum did always rely on the mods. Too much. Cards on the table, it was the Nerin and Doom show for far too long. This was always going to slowly break down. Things changed a bit when Randy showed up etc.

I'm not belittling other peoples contribution at all, and there are many people who did alot over the years, more so than I in retrospect, but the fact remains that there were plenty of times that was the way it felt to me.

That's wrong- I was running my first forum, was very new, and I made alot of mistakes. When my job changed I couldn't be what I was to here anymore. It's sad but it happened.

So there's my part of the problem. What about fixing it.


I can see a running theme of a desire of "serious side" threads developing here.

I've always thought we needed them. If I recall, LZ had a penchant for starting them.

Whereas Kharn would say alt, I would say cult- I think there's a place in Boards for a "Cult Times" kind of social forum, where we could organise to go see things like the time the original Dracula was played with the Kronos quartet providing the score, or discussion of pop culture issues such as the frankly disgusting scenes at San Diego Comicon where middle aged male fanboys thought it'd be a good idea to scream at and terrify teenage girls for the audacity of liking twilight. (Although myself and Kharn have our own fun twilight memories )

My idea would be a forum where the issues that face cultdom have a nexus, where we could talk about going to all the different cons etc (I had a run of 3 different cons in 3 weeks with different focuses). These cons are living examples of the cross over I am talking about- I was playing Street Fighter at an anime con, then a roleplaying one- the cross over is real and recognised in many places.

Look at me for example. My "pop culture" influences include:

1) Video games
2) Comics
3) Movies
4) TV
5) Music

For each one of these there's cult and mainstream versions (although it could be argued all comics are cult) and for each one there's hidden gems that I'm missing (I discovered Scott Pilgrim through this forum).

This is genuinely the direction I could see the forum going down and I think it'd be ALOT of fun and interesting, but as Nerin said, we could never do it alone.

Content IS king. Part of why the original Lair snowballed was because it was always on the front page. I mean, always, I used to log into Boards and just click on it there.

With reference to the Lair itself- Kharn there is just having a clash of the two perspectives of people who come here.

He sees the inside of Boards and the Lair is just another thread to him, who has seen thousands. To other people, building up a thread like that is important. They don't see the web the way some of the old skewllers do.

I'd like to do something special with it, but I don't have ideas for what. I'd like to hear some.

Doctor DooM

Also, on the "vanilla" and "alt" thing.

That term is used in multiple little societies and scenes to really describe "people who are not us".

I would guess it arose because most people who do wear some kind of alt lifestyle on their sleeve run into abuse at some point (when I was about 15, simply wearing a Metallica t shirt in Dublin was enough to get you insulted walking down a street). I would say for a lot of people,

I don't like it myself- I think if you scratch deep enough, you'll find very few people are really vanilla.

Regardless, there'll not be people who are "too vanilla" to post here as long as I am modding. Atheists post in the Christianity forum, and Christians in the Atheist. As long as you are respectful to what and whoever is being discussed, then you should be made feel welcome.

trowelled

I tried to introduce a friend to the Nocturnal Forum recently enough. They said they were discouraged by the fact that it was really just two threads on the go with very high post counts.

I myself am guilty of not posting frequently of late. But my sleep pattern has been all over the shop the last year. I've become very lazy about a lot of things and posting on boards is one such thing.

I've never been a big thread starter. I would like to rectify this at some point. If I think of soemthing I will do my best to get a discussion going on it. I would like it if the Nocturnal Forum could be kept going. I'd hate to see it go.

Have to say when the tournament talk started spilling over into the Lair it put me off posting in it. It's just not my thing. The tournaments thread definitely have a place in the forum but they should be discussed within their own threads. They are popular with a lot of posters, it's just not my bag.

Just to pick up on what doomy was saying about the whole Alt/vanilla thing. To many people I look "vanilla". I dress mundanely, I don't stand out. But I'd rather get lost in a crowd than stand out. That's just my personality. I don't like the notion of having a tag put on me. I'm just me. Doesn't mean I'm not into Alt things though. I've always had a tendency to lean towards the darker things in life. Just ask my old English teacher. Each essay I handed up was more disturbing and horrifying than the last. I'm just not into advertising who I am (hence the "boring" dress sense) but more power to those who want to.


Anyway, this is all probably sounds like random waffle cos I'm too tired to think properly right now

Shiminay

Doom's hit on something there, I need to clarify that when I use the term vanilla or alt, I mean no disrespect or anything like that - they're just 2 labels that I'm using to get the point across - I you all

Galvasean

People use the word vanilla to describe something as being plain. It's unfair as vanilla has a unique (and delicious) flavour. [/pedantic]
But really, when you start generalising in terms of 'us' and 'them' it helps no one.

Personally, I don't post in the Noc a whole lot because most of the time I imply have to be up in the morning. When I started posting here frequently I was working almost exclusively evening shifts so my body clock had my awake at all hours. Now when I do get into the forum I'm only passing through and not in it for the long haul, so I don't go to the Lair as it takes some tme to get properly involved in that. I think a lot of people are in similar situatons.
Stupid real life, you got in the way.

Handsome Bob

Pter wrote: »

Personally i think some of us (myself included) got carried away with the deadly alliance style threads. So something maybe to watch out for; dont do them again for a long while.

One thread every couple of months doesn't kill a forum. If anything, those threads were the one thing that kept traffic in any way decent in this forum over the last year or so. Not having a go at you or anyone else or anything, but seriously, I think you're all way off the mark in regards to this. Just my opinion though. I accept though that sometimes discussion bled into The Lair. That shouldn't have happened because there's always a discussion thread to go hand in hand with those tourneys. All the same though, there's a reason why there's a report button attached to every post.

Anyway, I'm not sure if I can give my 2 cents without starting a shit storm. I'm pretty sure I'm aware of what is the real cause of the problems are in this forum with people no longer posting. However it's something that cannot be helped at this stage, and to mention it now can have no positive effect.

What I'd suggest anyway is try to rebuild it from the ground up. Maybe we can all put our heads together and come up with a solid M.O. for this forum. If we all know where we're at in regards to the nature of the forum it will be easier to create new threads.

Galvasean

I agree with LZ re: the battle type threads. They were pretty much the only reason I kept coming back for a while. Setting up battle discussion threads kept discussion out of the Lair. Simply, they were fun.

Baggly

I think every couple of months is excessive. The second one was at least six months after the first and that's why it was fresh and why people didn't mind them.

You start having them all the time and that's what the forum becomes known for, thus the people who don't like them avoid the forum. I'm not saying do away with them. I'm just saying don't dilute their value by having them too regularly.

Nerin

I'll have a look at the charter later on, change it so its less text and more clear what can be posted. Which is basically anything... Glad to see a thirst for more serious stuff too

Doctor DooM

Yeah I always wanted more srs bznz. I thought no one else did.

Handsome Bob

Serious business is cool with me.

Also, I agree with reallyrose in regards to how people greet each other these days. I mean simply saying "Hi" to someone kind of defeats the purpose of a chat thread no? It wouldn't kill some people to throw in a "How are you?". Likewise, if someone does ask ya that, it's just common courtesy to say more than just "Fine." I mean c'mon FFS it's a chat thread!

Baggly

Im wondering what people think of a directory of all these username titles we have.

Maybe if it was stickied and the list was in the first post, people would feel a sense of membership and ownership of the forum.

I know there is the suggestion thread, but, as is the nature of that thread and of the creative process, actual names are mingled in with a lot of chat.

Galvasean

FWIW, I really enjoyed our excursion to Dominion Ressurection. I'm not normally a black clad character (the irony that I'm doing improv tonight and my team's unoficcial uniform is black!), but I did enjoy doing something different while out.

Delirium

I've a lot of time for the forum, mainly because it was the forum that made me feel welcome on the site. I've made some great friends on here. I wouldn't have a serious boards addiction if it wasn't for you lot:P:pac:

The forum does seem to be suffering due to the focus on the chat thread. Other forums that have a chat thread also have a decent number of threads that would have a pretty good number of posters in those also.

There does seem to be a reluctance to start threads in the forum. On the main page of the forum you have roughly 20 threads started by about 5-6 people. That could be down to posters not being sure what threads would fall into the remit of the forum. Posters shouldn't be afraid to start a thread in the forum. Assuming they start a thread that isn't just being created to troll the forum, the worst that can happen is the thread gets closed. It's not exactly end of the world stuff.


I do like what Doom mentioned about having a kind of alternative take on stuff like films, music, books. This could entice more posters into the forum and over time provide the forum with more users that would generate content. The idea of a kind of "Cult Times" does sound like the sort of stuff I'd also like to see in the forum.

Also, the addition of some serious threads could be a good thing. I'd definitely be interested to see what sort of serious threads would be okay for the forum. And the more variety the forum has in threads, the more likely it is to attract new posters.

The forum has a great community of posters that want to see it continue to exist and grow. I'm sure posters can generate some really good discussions that will only improve the forum.

And remember, DARKNESs PREVAILS:D

Nerin

Updated the charter, snipped some things, specifically added this:

This is a social forum. Things are more laid back here and topics can be numerous. Feel free to start a thread you feel the users might be interested in. If in doubt, pm a mod

The forum is first and foremost for insomniacs and those that work outside regular hours or simply just prefer to be up late at night.

Feel free to discuss topics relating to late night existance, lack of sleep, shift working, late night entertainment, or simply beat the night time lonliness chatting in the lair.

Those who like the spooky. Horror/ Dark Fantasy is a heavy theme here.
Those who enjoy the dark side of culture be it music, film etc. Feel free to start threads related to the culture of the night.

Those who enjoy counter /subcultures, gothic/alt/emo/nerd/roleplaying all have a big following here. Feel free to discuss issues relating to these sub cultures.

any tips or better way to post it, feel free

Baggly

Perhaps we can update the index too......

I dont think bebo even exists anymore.


EDIT: I reckon we leave this thread up for a week or so and then take the learnings from it and go from there. Nice to see the increase in threads already....

shellyboo

Galvasean wrote: »

FWIW, I really enjoyed our excursion to Dominion Ressurection. I'm not normally a black clad character (the irony that I'm doing improv tonight and my team's unoficcial uniform is black!), but I did enjoy doing something different while out.

I enjoyed it too, it was loads of fun. But as far as I can see, the "vanilla" among us DO make an effort to make the "alt" people (just using the terms already in use) comfortable on nights out, letting them for the most part dictate the venues etc... but no such allowances are made for the vanilla people. When a non-alt venue is suggested it's all, "I'm not going if it's going to be there", "no way, I was there once before and it was full of hipsters", "the music is shlt" etc.

Well I think metal music is shlt and I still went to Dominion and had a ball. I think the us vs them, vanilla vs alt atmosphere is making a lot of us vanilla types sick to the back teeth as Nerin said. If the vanilla people can be big and bold enough to forget wanting to go dancing to 80s cheesy pop and go to Dominion for a night, can the Alt types not make a similar compromise for the sake of the vanilla types and tolerate a bit of mainstream chat, a mainstream bar, a pub that isn't full of similar alt-types and raging doom metal music, for the sake of the forum? I'd never ever force or even suggest an 80s cheesy night out for this forum as I know most of you would hate it -- but just a normal bar? With seats and ambient music and drinks? Is that SUCH an effort, the odd time? Without complaining that it's not alt enough?

As far as I can see, people aren't willing to do that -- or at least, they're not willing to do it without complaining about it. And that just serves to make the vanilla people feel (a) guilty for making the suggestion and (b) unwelcome. As if the Alt members think of this as "their" forum and the vanilla types are merely intruders spoiling their fun. That's how I feel. I think others feel that way too.

I know there is absolutely nobody in this forum who consciously thinks the above about the vanilla people, but that is the overriding feeling for me coming in here now. Having suggested several places to go on nights out (when nobody else would) and hearing nothing afterwards but "that was crap because XYZ", I'm just so done trying to fit in here.

I couldn't give a monkey's about what kind of music plays in what bar we go to as long as I get to hang out with the PEOPLE I meet here -- like-mindedness goes beyond whether you got a slagging for wearing a certain t-shirt or you like certain music. We all have something a little dark, a little alternative in us, whether it's our love of metal music or keyboard cat or Doomy's Motivational posters, or just the off-the-wall sense of humour we all seem to share.

We all have something in common here, that's what draws us here, that's why so many relationships and IRL friendships have sprung up. I think we need to stop trying to enforce "alt-ness" on this place, stop trying to make it be what it was "meant" to be and just... let it BE.

I know that won't sit well with the die-hard original members, but... the way things are right now doesn't seem to be working. The forum is changing, right now for the worse. I'd hate to see it die altogether, but I'm not sure I'm even welcome here anymore. I worry about coming and posting because I haven't been around enough or I'm not alt enough. And that's really sad. I don't want to feel that way. I want us to be a happy family again!

Handsome Bob

What venues have you suggested that have been shot down before Shelly?

Baggly

I dont disagree with anything you have said there Doom, but in the interests of encouraging people to air their opinions and feelings on why the forum has quietened up and what can be done about it, maybe the mods could just hold back on.....countering the opinions of posters for a bit.

I think at the end of this whole feedback/review process, a discussion needs to happen....but in terms of just getting opinions, maybe just let people air them for now. I mean every single person that has posted has given a different opinion. Im just worried if anyone (myself included) jumps on posts straight away, people will hesitate to post opinions that might be controversial, but might also need to be said.

2c

Doctor DooM

Pter wrote: »

I dont disagree with anything you have said there Doom, but in the interests of encouraging people to air their opinions and feelings on why the forum has quietened up and what can be done about it, maybe the mods could just hold back on.....countering the opinions of posters for a bit.

I think at the end of this whole feedback/review process, a discussion needs to happen....but in terms of just getting opinions, maybe just let people air them for now. I mean every single person that has posted has given a different opinion. Im just worried if anyone (myself included) jumps on posts straight away, people will hesitate to post opinions that might be controversial, but might also need to be said.

2c

I'm going to temp delete it in the interest of not bogging down a feedback thread on minituae.

That said, if I want to post something I will. It's my forum too, no more or less than anyone elses.

Baggly

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I'm going to temp delete it in the interest of not bogging down a feedback thread on minituae.

That said, if I want to post something I will. It's my forum too, no more or less than anyone elses.

I know i know. But its the seperation thingy someone mentioned with regards to Kharn. Some people are wearing more than one hat.

Appreciated.

Futurecrook

I can see where Shelly's coming from. The bitching about venues wrecks my head too. (I mean, someone complained about the venue I chose for my frickin birthday... come on! :pac:) Anyone who's tried to organise a beers will understand how tough it is to please everyone. That said, I like all the places we go to because it's the people I go to beers for because the nocturnal forum is full of some pretty awesome people.

Regarding the starting new threads - it's exactly what the forum needs but a lot of thread ideas have been done before. The problem is, they're old and full of posts/discussion from people who no longer post in the forum. This leads to a few problems.

Let's say a new poster thinks of an idea for a thread, they search the forum and the old thread comes up. They don't want to start a new thread now because it's been done before but don't want to post in the old thread because it might be seen as resurrecting a 'zombie' thread (and everyone is well aware of our feelings on zombies around these parts) or because they look through it and know/recognise very few of the posters.

What's the best way to get around this?

Nerin

Futurecrook wrote: »

(I mean, someone complained about the venue I chose for my frickin birthday... come on! :pac:)

oh yeah... *takes down name in book*

Anyone who's tried to organise a beers will understand how tough it is to please everyone.

this^ it are tough..

That said, I like all the places we go to because it's the people I go to beers for because the nocturnal forum is full of some pretty awesome people.

^this too. i'm not a big fan of metal music or whatever and dominion, while i likes the whole gothy thing wouldnt be my scene, but i like the people, so the venue (as long as its not crawling with scummers/staffed by arseholes) doesnt really matter much.

Regarding the starting new threads - it's exactly what the forum needs but a lot of thread ideas have been done before. The problem is, they're old and full of posts/discussion from people who no longer post in the forum. This leads to a few problems.
Let's say a new poster thinks of an idea for a thread, they search the forum and the old thread comes up. They don't want to start a new thread now because it's been done before but don't want to post in the old thread because it might be seen as resurrecting a 'zombie' thread (and everyone is well aware of our feelings on zombies around these parts) or because they look through it and know/recognise very few of the posters.

for the record: i dont get the whole zombie (grrrrr) thread thing on boards. i mean in the beginning i might have just followed the mod line, i cannot remember, but now i think its stoopid.

bump old threads if you want. or start new ones if its all old and off the page and stuff.
obviously if its a date specific thing theres no point, but other than that everyone have at it.

Doctor DooM

Nerin wrote: »

for the record: i dont get the whole zombie (grrrrr) thread thing on boards. i mean in the beginning i might have just followed the mod line, i cannot remember, but now i think its stoopid.

bump old threads if you want. or start new ones if its all old and off the page and stuff.
obviously if its a date specific thing theres no point, but other than that everyone have at it.

Im on the exact same page with this.


I don't get what is so incredibly evil about adding a point to an old thread, especially if you weren't around for it.

I do get what's so evil about zombies though.

Baggly

Could we throw this in the charter? About the either bump or create thingy.

Nerin

Pter wrote: »

Could we throw this in the charter? About the either bump or create thingy.

will do
anyone has tips for the charter, feel free to give them

randylonghorn

By the way, it strikes me that I should mention that I am around and have been reading since the thread started.

I just decided that I would break the habit of a lifetime and 'shup for a while and see what came up.

Just in case anyone thinks I'm AWOL or in a huff or anything ...

grames_bond

Kharn wrote: »

I don't know what grames' point about the Lair is, but one thread closed and another started, it was the same thing.

sorry Kharn i really should have clarified this, my first point (about the lair and lair v2) was really just a tongue in cheek comment by me trying to blame something!

My second point is the real reason i took a major step back, i took a huge break during my finals where i just didnt post at all (site banned myself) then when they finished i had to go straight into job hunting (early days and early nights) and THEN work started so i just simply didnt have time! And like i said when im turning off computers at 9/10pm to get ready for tomorrow, im not really being nocturnal!

Futurecrook wrote: »

I can see where Shelly's coming from. The bitching about venues wrecks my head too. (I mean, someone complained about the venue I chose for my frickin birthday... come on! :pac:) Anyone who's tried to organise a beers will understand how tough it is to please everyone.

i agree with this, it gets a bit much after a while which is why now i usually wait until it has been decided! Hell actually i suggested Peader Kearneys for the last noc beers and it was shot down within seconds for no real reason! (even thought PK's was the dominion venue)

That's why we all love tp smyths.....jukebox means everything from 'tallica to men without hats to toto gets played!