Wednesday's March Info

MaynoothSU

There are two ways to get to the march from Maynooth:

1. Public transport. Either a bus from the Main Street outside Londis, or a train from Connolly.

2. Private bus run by the SU. We got these because we anticipate public transport being jammers. The cost of a return journey on the bus is e5 and you get one of the yellow tshirts you've seen being worn about the place.

Buses leave from outside the SU between 10:30am - 11:30am from outside the Students' Union Building.

We have 30 buses to facilitate 2,000 Maynooth students.

If you've bought a ticket already, just show up with your ticket in that timeframe and you'll get your tshirt and place on the bus. If you can't find your ticket, no worries, we have your name.

Due to massive (no, really) demand we recommend turning up closer to 10:30 than to 11:30 to avoid a logistical nightmare.

*MaynoothSU

Absolute Zero

MaynoothSU wrote: »

There are two ways to get to the march from Maynooth:

1. Public transport. Either a bus from the Main Street outside Londis, or a train from Connolly.

2. Private bus run by the SU. We got these because we anticipate public transport being jammers. The cost of a return journey on the bus is e5 and you get one of the yellow tshirts you've seen being worn about the place.

Buses leave from outside the SU between 10:30am - 11:30am from outside the Students' Union Building.

We have 30 buses to facilitate 2,000 Maynooth students.

If you've bought a ticket already, just show up with your ticket in that timeframe and you'll get your tshirt and place on the bus. If you can't find your ticket, no worries, we have your name.

Due to massive (no, really) demand we recommend turning up closer to 10:30 than to 11:30 to avoid a logistical nightmare.

*MaynoothSU

Can you still buy tickets tomorrow?

banquo

You can get tickets right up until the last bus leaves. Even at the bus.

Absolute Zero

banquo wrote: »

You can get tickets right up until the last bus leaves. Even at the bus.

Great was mostly wondering about getting them at the busses themselves, thanks banquo

heffo500

I've heard some lectures are canceled. Is this correct for every lecture?

squishykins

Nope. Some have, the german department are awesome =D But no.

cian1500ww

heffo500 wrote: »

I've heard some lectures are canceled. Is this correct for every lecture?

Haven't heard of any, I've a lab exam tomorrow

banquo

First batch of the NUIM 2,000 students just leaving the SU.

Head to the SU now for a direct bus to the march (return journey).

banquo

Second batch of students has left the SU. 6 buses down, 24 to go. Head to the SU now to get a direct return bus to the march. Food upon return to SU this evening.

Daemos

Good luck everyone

banquo

Final NUI Maynooth student count: 3,122.

Good job team.

Lord TSC

*Turns to RTE*

Aye, good job.

In a single afternoon, ye managed to destroy just about all sympathy and good will there was towards students.

catho_monster

The videos on youtube of students, beer cans in hand, singing ole ole ole, could not make me more ashamed to be a student right now.

Liber8or

As usual, a fúcking disgrace.

So, the image of students has now changed from poor, victimised and educated citizens to a drunken, disorderly and violent mob. I know people will say "Well it was only a few individuals", but it is always the exceptions which are written about.

I think football hooliganism is the best image used to describe todays attempt at highlighting 'student issues'.

Lord TSC

Liber8or wrote: »

As usual, a fúcking disgrace.

So, the image of students has now changed from poor, victimised and educated citizens to a drunken, disorderly and violent mob. I know people will say "Well it was only a few individuals", but it is always the exceptions which are written about.

I think football hooliganism is the best image used to describe todays attempt at highlighting 'student issues'.

Even if they say "it was only a few individuals", they can't be surprised at the end result. The media will ALWAYS focus in on the vocal minority and portray them as the majority.

This has been nothing short of a PR nightmare over a topic which no one had any sympathy for students before anyway.

Liber8or

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Even if they say "it was only a few individuals", they can't be surprised at the end result. The media will ALWAYS focus in on the vocal minority and portray them as the majority.

This has been nothing short of a PR nightmare over a topic which no one had any sympathy for students before anyway.

Ofcourse, and well said. However, we (NUIM) are all a part of USI now and will be branded as violent and disruptive like every other university belonging to this organisation. Student Union representatives struggle with the logistics of a RAG Week or a Freshers Week, how are a couple of SUs supposed to control and organise 20,000 students? A disaster from the beginning.

I would love for anyone to come on here and try and defend 'student victimisation' after today's display. People on the dole, struggling to make ends meet, healthcare costs, social costs, and are they supposed to have sympathy with a bunch of drunks, anarchists and extremists?

Every desire, every objective set out by this 'protest' has now been utterly destroyed, and if anything, they have just handed over justification to the governement to raise fees. Most importantly, any support from people in agreement with FEE, or even on the fringes of perpetuating 'free fees' no longer wants to be associated with what they saw today.

Ironically, writing a strongly worded letter or hosting our own internal protest would have yielded greater results. Isn't it great we conformed and joined the glorious USI? :rolleyes:

LeixlipRed

I won't even get into it with your lot but the majority of people who occupied and protested outside the Dept of Finance were completely peaceful. You call yourselves educated yet you can't look past media (and USI) spin. I seen grown met in riot gear beat defensless girls who were sitting on the street doing nothing but linking arms with people. ****, why do I even bother, you won't listen anyway.

Liber8or

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I won't even get into it with your lot but the majority of people who occupied and protested outside the Dept of Finance were completely peaceful. You call yourselves educated yet you can't look past media (and USI) spin. I seen grown met in riot gear beat defensless girls who were sitting on the street doing nothing but linking arms with people. ****, why do I even bother, you won't listen anyway.

I respect your dedication LeixlipRed, but you can not defend the actions of those who acted as rioters. Everything you achieved by protesting outside the Dept of Finance has been utterly undone by the other crowd of football hooligans.

None of your objectives have been achieved. Instead and in large thanks to the media, students now look like a bunch of drunk, anarchist football hooligans. If you want to remember today as a 'victory', everyone else (which is who you are trying to convince) will only remember the violence that ensued.

Cpt Beefheart

Liber8or wrote: »

I would love for anyone to come on here and try and defend 'student victimisation' after today's display. People on the dole, struggling to make ends meet, healthcare costs, social costs, and are they supposed to have sympathy with a bunch of drunks, anarchists and extremists?

I am trying to make ends meet and worry all the time about how to keep my family afloat financially. I still have huge sympathy and respect for the people who went to Dublin today. Stop generalising.

I watched the 6 o'clock news with a seven year old and a seventy year old. Neither end of the age scale had any less sympathy with what the students were trying to achieve after watching what RTE chose to show.

Eric Cartman

well done students, you f*cked it up again

tips for the future

1) stop getting drunk / stoned going to protests
2) stop bringing left wing nutjobs like sinn feinn , labour youth and the socialists with you, they only cause trouble because of their ignorant narrowminded political views

im aware this only applys to a horrible minority but the media will focus on them unfortunatly. Student protests should be a day to speak up about how you feel about them raising the registration fee, USI by allowing the left wingers to participate in the protest without distancing themselves from them are just hurting their message by allowing these nut jobs to become violent and talk sh*te on television

the video on RTE's website says it all , some tool up against the gards with a bleeding nose and instead of leaving he just keeps going and going and gets pushed again, ofcourse thats whats going to happen when you become a thug about it

mp3guy

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I won't even get into it with your lot but the majority of people who occupied and protested outside the Dept of Finance were completely peaceful. You call yourselves educated yet you can't look past media (and USI) spin. I seen grown met in riot gear beat defensless girls who were sitting on the street doing nothing but linking arms with people. ****, why do I even bother, you won't listen anyway.

You seemed very up for "getting into it" with us before. And we are educated, that's why we know that 3rd level education is not a right.

allandanyways

Maybe I'm just an idiot, but why would you get drunk going to a protest?

You're going to a protest to make a point about something that needs to be prevented/changed. It's not a session!

Seriously, anyone who went and drank/knows the reason behind this, can ye explain this to me?

Lord TSC

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I won't even get into it with your lot but the majority of people who occupied and protested outside the Dept of Finance were completely peaceful. You call yourselves educated yet you can't look past media (and USI) spin. I seen grown met in riot gear beat defensless girls who were sitting on the street doing nothing but linking arms with people. ****, why do I even bother, you won't listen anyway.

I'll actually say I admired the people who had the sit down protest in the Dept. of Finance. THAT was an admirable protest and even if I disagree with what the protests are over, at least it was a peaceful protest which was aimed at a governmental department.

As for us being not able to look past the media spin, it's not us you have to worry about. I never agreed with the march and the things it stood for, but it wasn't me you were trying to convince. It was the general public. And I've seen on the news and read on boards a lot of people say it was a disgrace. Regardless of whether it was the majority or the minority who led to the result, surely even you can admit it was a disaster today in terms of PR and trying to change people's minds?

As for the last comment about people in riot gear beating girls, I hate to break this to you but that's not the image being shown as a representation of todays protest. Rather, it's footage of poor unarmed Gardai being attacked by absolute yobs; people who are attacking the police rather than the other way round.

Liber8or

Cpt Beefheart wrote: »

I am trying to make ends meet and worry all the time about how to keep my family afloat financially. I still have huge sympathy and respect for the people who went to Dublin today.

I also have full respect for those who went to protest peacefully and voice their concerns. Nothing wrong with it at all. Nevertheless, I am simply stating what will be remembered and that is the violence that took place. It is not generalising, it is fact. If you want proof, go on the RTE website and read the article. The majority of it is on the violence. Tomorrow morning, read the papers; I guarantee every image in relation to the protest will be of a violent nature.

My problem lies with the USI not taking the possibility of violence erupting into consideration. Did they honestly believe 20,000 people in a confined area, expressing their anger at the government would result in an entirely peaceful event? And if they were not that naive, surely they must have realised the potential threat any sort of violence will receive more attention than their own agenda and therefore undermine any efforts associated with it.

No matter what happens now; November 3rd will be remembered in all media outlets as the day students vented their anger at the government with violence instead of peaceful demonstration. And, the media is a louder voice than any megaphone or protest chant.

Hopefully, this will be a lesson learned by SUs across all universities for future reference.

On a personal note, the Gardai should have used water cannons and soaked those drunk scumbags. Maybe it would have sobered them up.

cian1500ww

allandanyways wrote: »

Maybe I'm just an idiot, but why would you get drunk going to a protest?

You're going to a protest to make a point about something that needs to be prevented/changed. It's not a session!

Seriously, anyone who went and drank/knows the reason behind this, can ye explain this to me?

I wasn't at it but from what I've seen from Facebook, most people went thinking it was going to be one giant student party or something.

The Waltzing Consumer

Bravo to the Socialist Workers Party and other fringe groups (Eirigi) for hijacking the event and making students look like a bunch of football hooligan knackers.

The Socialists said they had no intention of hijacking our march, they did, and the public will have no sympathy at all for the purpose of the march and the majority who acted legally.

The SWP will cry that when they were making daisy chains and helping one-armed old people cross the street, the fascist Gardai came up to them and beat the crap out of them, girls, boys, pregnant women, deers, pokemon, the lot, for no reason.

If students are annoyed at what has happened, email your local SWP or whatever front group they are and tell them to f**k off and stop with the rent-a-mob attitude they bring to nearly every event they go to.

allandanyways

cian1500ww wrote: »

I wasn't at it but from what I've seen from Facebook, most people went thinking it was going to be one giant student party or something.

This makes me really, really angry. The "fees are bad mmmkay" lot.

I hugely admire people who are genuinely passionate about the cause, but these clueless gobshítes sadden me.

Eric Cartman

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Bravo to the Socialist Workers Party and other fringe groups (Eirigi) for hijacking the event and making students look like a bunch of football hooligan knackers.

The Socialists said they had no intention of hijacking our march, they did, and the public will have no sympathy at all for the purpose of the march and the majority who acted legally.

The SWP will cry that when they were making daisy chains and helping one-armed old people cross the street, the fascist Gardai came up to them and beat the crap out of them, girls, boys, pregnant women, deers, pokemon, the lot, for no reason.

If students are annoyed at what has happened, email your local SWP or whatever front group they are and tell them to f**k off and stop with the rent-a-mob attitude they bring to nearly every event they go to.

+1 , the far left violent groups need to be ousted, its the only way USI will get their point accross, the gardai acted reasonably and it was all these radical far left groups causing the problems only a minority of USI invited students participated in any violence

mp3guy

cian1500ww wrote: »

I wasn't at it but from what I've seen from Facebook, most people went thinking it was going to be one giant student party or something.

Exactly. I'd say a VERY high number of students who attended just enjoyed the fact they could skive off lectures with a "half decent excuse" for one day, to hit up some cool street party. Those students more than likely greatly outnumbered the level headed students that actually went and understood the reason for the march.

Liber8or

I would appreciate some transparency from our SU.

I would like them to describe, in great detail who they contacted about this march, who they collaborated with and who the USI organised the event with. If the SU is aware of FEE, or USI contacting the various Socialist Parties, Workers Parties, Sinn Fein, and asking them to join, then perhaps it would be a gesture of solidarity by NUIMSU to disassociate themselves with those guilty of instigating violence.

I have said this before; the NUIM SU has a responsibility to its students, not its political affiliates - Labour, FF, FG, etc.

Kiwi_knock

allandanyways wrote: »

Maybe I'm just an idiot, but why would you get drunk going to a protest?

You're going to a protest to make a point about something that needs to be prevented/changed. It's not a session!

Seriously, anyone who went and drank/knows the reason behind this, can ye explain this to me?

To highlight the fact that students are so poor all they can afford is Dutch Gold.

irish_goat

Eric Cartman wrote: »

+1 , the far left violent groups need to be ousted, its the only way USI will get their point accross, the gardai acted reasonably and it was all these radical far left groups causing the problems only a minority of USI invited students participated in any violence

You say that but there's plenty of videos up of ordinary students throwing cans etc at the gardai.

Eric Cartman

Liber8or wrote: »

I would appreciate some transparency from our SU.

I would like them to describe, in great detail who they contacted about this march, who they collaborated with and who the USI organised the event with. If the SU is aware of FEE, or USI contacting the various Socialist Parties, Workers Parties, Sinn Fein, and asking them to join, then perhaps it would be a gesture of solidarity by NUIMSU to disassociate themselves with those guilty of instigating violence.

I have said this before; the NUIM SU has a responsibility to its students, not its political affiliates - Labour, FF, FG, etc.

I think if anyone on the union council or organising committee contacted any of those far left violent groups they should be removed from all union activities and banned from organising anything in maynooth , If someone invited these groups they have brought shame to NUI Maynooth, the USI and diluted the message the students marched to give and replaced it with a media image of violent abusive behaviour towards the gardai

Eric Cartman

irish_goat wrote: »

You say that but there's plenty of videos up of ordinary students throwing cans etc at the gardai.

well those students should be ashamed , they are part of the problem , they are part of that minority i talked about. but still a large part of the problems was these left wing politically allied groups such as the SWP , sinn feinn, eigri , labour youth etc..

The Waltzing Consumer

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I won't even get into it with your lot but the majority of people who occupied and protested outside the Dept of Finance were completely peaceful. You call yourselves educated yet you can't look past media (and USI) spin. I seen grown met in riot gear beat defensless girls who were sitting on the street doing nothing but linking arms with people. ****, why do I even bother, you won't listen anyway.

Bullsh** to be frank. Your party has inflicted huge damage to the reputation of students now. People knew that when the SWP were involving themselves in the march, it might be an issue, in the thread that was locked in this forum, I and others tried to get you guys to not make it political and keep it about "students". But no, you got annoyed and persisted that the SWP was just there to support students and not hijack the protest.

Surprise f**king surprise, who are one of the main culprits? Fanatical SWP.

Worst part is you guys won't even accept any blame, you will blame it all on the Gardai and any criticism of your parties tactics will be sweeped aside as media spin. :rolleyes:

You fu**ed the students over.

Eric Cartman

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Bullsh** to be frank. Your party has inflicted huge damage to the reputation of students now. People knew that when the SWP were involving themselves in the march, it might be an issue, in the thread that was locked in this forum, I and others tried to get you guys to not make it political and keep it about "students". But no, you got annoyed and persisted that the SWP was just there to support students and not hijack the protest.

Surprise f**king surprise, who are one of the main culprits? Fanatical SWP.

Worst part is you guys won't even accept any blame, you will blame it all on the Gardai and any criticism of your parties tactics will be sweeped aside as media spin. :rolleyes:

You fu**ed the students over.

link please ?

the SWP, eigri, sinn feinn and labour youth have dont NOTHING, and i mean NOTHING except ruined prospects for students by using bully boy tactics and hijacking protests and spreading propoganda, you and your party should be ashamed leixlipred , its people like you who prevent the students of Ireland being taken seriously

The Waltzing Consumer

Eric Cartman wrote: »

link please ?

the SWP, eigri, sinn feinn and labour youth have dont NOTHING, and i mean NOTHING except ruined prospects for students by using bully boy tactics and hijacking protests and spreading propoganda, you and your party should be ashamed leixlipred , its people like you who prevent the students of Ireland being taken seriously

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056062392

Ian Beale

I think we can all agree on one thing though, the people that were throwing missiles at the Gardaí are nothing but scum, 3 Gardaí were injured, one with a broken nose. They sure as hell didn't deserve it. If there was any shred of sympathy for students there won't be any now that's for sure.

Seren_

Jesus christ, I know there was trouble at it, but it's not like one day of rioting will sour people's opinions of students. Those who see us as drunken hooligans will have thought that already, and I think even if everyone was well behaved some would still hold that opinion.

We should be focusing on the positives of the protest, rather than the negatives. 3122 Maynooth students marched on the streets of Dublin today to let the government know that we can't afford another cut to our grant, or another raise in the registration fee. That's about half of NUIM's student population! I doubt any other college could say that percentage of their students were there.

Lord TSC

Your Text Here wrote: »

Jesus christ, I know there was trouble at it, but it's not like one day of rioting will sour people's opinions of students. Those who see us as drunken hooligans will have thought that already, and I think even if everyone was well behaved some would still hold that opinion.

We should be focusing on the positives of the protest, rather than the negatives. 3122 Maynooth students marched on the streets of Dublin today to let the government know that we can't afford another cut to our grant, or another raise in the registration fee. That's about half of NUIM's student population! I doubt any other college could say that percentage of their students were there.

It's well under half since I was reading earlier that there's over 8,000 students in NUIM at the moment.

Regardless, the only "pro" is there was a march. and I'll agree that it was heard, although it will most likely be ignored.

The cons though is that there was negative publicity and the government won't shift their stance at all and will possibly use this as a motivation to go through with what some consider harsh plans.

If the only pro you can think of is "people showed up", you're in trouble...

Kiwi_knock

Your Text Here wrote: »

Jesus christ, I know there was trouble at it, but it's not like one day of rioting will sour people's opinions of students. Those who see us as drunken hooligans will have thought that already, and I think even if everyone was well behaved some would still hold that opinion.

We should be focusing on the positives of the protest, rather than the negatives. 3122 Maynooth students marched on the streets of Dublin today to let the government know that we can't afford another cut to our grant, or another raise in the registration fee. That's about half of NUIM's student population! I doubt any other college could say that percentage of their students were there.

Just check out the thread on AH to see how badly this incident has affected people's support for students.

ghostdancer

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

To highlight the fact that students are so poor all they can afford is Dutch Gold.

i'm sure the thousand or so students in Bradys/Roost/Mantra tonight and tomorrow will be drinking water too.

Seren_

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

It's well under half since I was reading earlier that there's over 8,000 students in NUIM at the moment.

Regardless, the only "pro" is there was a march. and I'll agree that it was heard, although it will most likely be ignored.

The cons though is that there was negative publicity and the government won't shift their stance at all and will possibly use this as a motivation to go through with what some consider harsh plans.

If the only pro you can think of is "people showed up", you're in trouble...

I'm not naive, the government will probably cut education cuts in the budget anyway. There could have been all the students in Ireland ever on the streets today and they still would cut spending. But people do enough complaining about TDs etc in this country anyway while still sitting on their arses, so I think that the protest was a great achievement for that reason.

I come from a "socially disadvantaged background" so if fees are introduced/grants are cut there's no way in hell either of my brothers will be able to go to college, so that's why I was out today. I don't give a fcuk about the negative publicity, every protest always ends up attracting nut jobs who think being violent is the way to do things. There's always cons to things, sometimes you just have to look past them.

Also, I was under the opinion that there were only 6000 students in Maynooth, my bad

Edit:

Originally posted by kiwi_knock
Just check out the thread on AH to see how badly this incident has affected people's support for students.

If I based my opinions of what Irish society thinks by what people post on AH, I'd have a pretty warped view of things. No offence.

Lord TSC

See, that's the thing though. I too am from a family which is still benefiting from the grants, so I dont want to see them go. But I've not read a single thing to suggest that they are getting rid of the grant scheme.

They've talked about raising fees, but that would still be covered by the grant scheme as it is now. And they've talked about cutting the grants a bit, but truthfully, I still think that the current grant amount is ridiculous in terms of quantity and can easily cover you if you budget properly (I did for five years).

But I've read nothing about them getting rid of the grant scheme at all. I also mentioned this in the last topic (The Mary C. one) and no one showed me evidence to suggest otherwise.

You also say your not naive but then say you don't care about bad publicity, instantly proving the earlier statement false. If you want to actually do something and protect students, the very first thing you should worry about is a positive public image. Cause without that, no one will give a damn about students, and when asked where the general public think money should come from, students will now be top of the list.

Seren_

I never said that the grant scheme was going to be cut, I said reduced. And €3000 isn't exactly a huge amount as it is (I know you said you lived on it well for 5 years, but some of us can't).

How does saying I don't care about a negative image make me naive? Students have a negative image as it is, I don't think today is going to have a huge effect on that. Why will one riot by a few stupid people instantly make students the scapegoats for more cuts?

Lord TSC

I really wonder how people say they can't live on €3,000 to be honest. With that, I managed to commute every day up and down, buy all my books and feed myself. Even after all of that, I was still able to walk out in summer with €1,000 in my bank account. Sure, I couldn't afford to stay up there or go socialising, but then it strikes me that some people think that's part of the college experience and thus the government should be funding that.

How does saying I don't care about a negative image make me naive? Students have a negative image as it is, I don't think today is going to have a huge effect on that. Why will one riot by a few stupid people instantly make students the scapegoats for more cuts?

It's naive because if you dont consider the public image, you may as well stay at home and do nothing. If you want to create a whole lot of trouble and annoy everyone, the protest today did an excellent job. If you want to protect students or prevent cuts to the grant and the raising of fees, then public sympathy is not only nessecary, it's vital. You've got to play the game (something people in Ireland in most circles are outright refusing to do) and make people care about the so called "plights of the students". You've got to provide logical reasons why these things should be prevented.

Seren_

To be fair, a lot of students live too far away from college to commute each day, so most of the grant money ends up being spent on rent. So you can't really use your situation as one that is the same for everyone.

I do see where you are coming from in the second half of your post though...

Daemos

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I won't even get into it with your lot but the majority of people who occupied and protested outside the Dept of Finance were completely peaceful. You call yourselves educated yet you can't look past media (and USI) spin. I seen grown met in riot gear beat defensless girls who were sitting on the street doing nothing but linking arms with people. ****, why do I even bother, you won't listen anyway.

Excuse me, just because you think you're right and everyone else is wrong doesn't give you the right to lord over everyone like you're better than them. You may be a mod in Mathematics but not here, you're as important as me or anyone else here, so get a fcuking grip and stop acting like you're better than everyone. You're right, we won't listen: because you're full of sh1t

Lord TSC

Your Text Here wrote: »

To be fair, a lot of students live too far away from college to commute each day, so most of the grant money ends up being spent on rent. So you can't really use your situation as one that is the same for everyone.

I do see where you are coming from in the second half of your post though...

I do understand that, but then, I also think that when you're choosing your college, you sometimes have to make sacrifices. It's not that there's only one University in the country. if you can't afford to live in a particular college, then you've got to choose one that's more financially viable. That may be harsh, but the government should not be expected to pay because people are deciding to head to the most akward place they can, travel wise.

Similiarly, it strikes me that some people think commuting is impossible beyond a certain distance. I know when I told people I was starting in NUIM, they said I was nuts because it's an hour and a half journey by bus every day each way. But I realised I couldn't afford to live up there so made the sacrifices. Yeah, it was tough getting up early and going to bed late, and it was annoying that it meant I could never be a part of any club or society. But then, that was part of the sacrifice I made to get to college. I took what money I had and I made it work. If you can't make it work, sometimes you've got to look at the alternatives.

@Dameos
I wouldn't bother. Lexlip has obviously decided "we can't be reasoned with". Regardless, I'd say stop with the crude rebuttal, since it will only lead to the topic getting locked

Daemos

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

@Dameos
I wouldn't bother. Lexlip has obviously decided "we can't be reasoned with". Regardless, I'd say stop with the crude rebuttal, since it will only lead to the topic getting locked

Don't worry, I've said what I wanted to say and will leave it at that

lemansky

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

@Dameos
I wouldn't bother. Lexlip has obviously decided "we can't be reasoned with". Regardless, I'd say stop with the crude rebuttal, since it will only lead to the topic getting locked

+1

Sure what would we know anyway, being clearly uneducated and all