Advice on basic .308

jingojonson

Hi All

Looking to get a deer rifle .308 or .270. I've seen quite a few rifles advertised
here the past year but they all seem to be totr models for people with loads of cash to spend.

I'm looking for something servicable to get me started
ie CZ or similar ideally with Iron sights. Don't mind if its old as long
as the barrel and receiver are in good condition.

Budget is €500 max. Any idea's?

It wasn't me!

jingojonson wrote: »

Hi All

Looking to get a deer rifle .308 or .270. I've seen quite a few rifles advertised
here the past year but they all seem to be totr models for people with loads of cash to spend.

I'm looking for something servicable to get me started
ie CZ or similar ideally with Iron sights. Don't mind if its old as long
as the barrel and receiver are in good condition.

Budget is €500 max. Any idea's?

Something like a second-hand CZ/BRNO or an older model Tikka or Sako sounds perfect for you. Could probably get something like a Tikka 590 for that money, and they're a great gun. Might be tricky to find, but if you spend the time, you'll get there.

Tackleberrywho

jingojonson wrote: »

Hi All

Looking to get a deer rifle .308 or .270. I've seen quite a few rifles advertised
here the past year but they all seem to be totr models for people with loads of cash to spend.

I'm looking for something servicable to get me started
ie CZ or similar ideally with Iron sights. Don't mind if its old as long
as the barrel and receiver are in good condition.

Budget is €500 max. Any idea's?

You will get a Remington SPS for that money with Iron sights, saw an old advert for one on http://irishguntrader.openseason.ie/
a while back.
Open sights are a bit of a pain for deer shooting though, as in low light you can barely see the blade type foresights on a cheap rifle.(some of the high end hunting rifles have fancy truglow foresights

Just once you know that open sights is not easy!

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

..........Just once you know that open sights is not easy!.............

You should come to a VCRAI shoot so ;)

Cass

Moved to main shooting forum.

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

You should come to a VCRAI shoot so ;)

N'ah, If I go VCRAI It will be with an old mauser and Pecar maybe or Zeiss not blade type fore sight

For deer Hunting you are limiting yourself with Open sights IMvHO

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

N'ah, If I go VCRAI It will be with an old mauser and Pecar maybe or Zeiss not blade type fore sight

For deer Hunting you are limiting yourself with Open sights IMvHO

Don't think anyone's shooting the rifles scoped. Kinda goes against the idea of them, really. VCRAI is good fun, just keep it perfectly simple and have fun competing.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Don't think anyone's shooting the rifles scoped. Kinda goes against the idea of them, really. VCRAI is good fun, just keep it perfectly simple and have fun competing.

A scope in 1944 was Simple

And largely due to the fact that an Orig Scoped Mauser goes for waaaaaaay more than a standard infantry rifle.

clivej

jingojonson wrote: »

Hi All

Looking to get a deer rifle .308 or .270. I've seen quite a few rifles advertised
here the past year but they all seem to be totr models for people with loads of cash to spend.

I'm looking for something servicable to get me started
ie CZ or similar ideally with Iron sights. Don't mind if its old as long
as the barrel and receiver are in good condition.

Budget is €500 max. Any idea's?

Ring around as many dealers as you can, theres plenty of second hand rifles in stock and value to be had.
I found Sean in Stakelums, Thurles to have a good range of SH guns and you could find something there that you like.

List of dealers click here

jingojonson

Thanks for the advice, just a point, I want open sights as a backup
as I generally like more to less engineering and as many options as possible.
That does not preclude using a scope which I would intend using
for deer.

clivej

No you can get rings that are high and have an opening to view the iron sights with. Or a better way may be to use a picitinny mounts and rings, that way you can remove the scope and replace it and still hold very near to your zero.

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

.......And largely due to the fact that an Orig Scoped Mauser goes for waaaaaaay more than a standard infantry rifle.

Only difference is price of mounts, scope and any gun-smithing required

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

Only difference is price of mounts, scope and any gun-smithing required

Bunny, a genuine "snipers" rifle from WWII that the serial No corresponded with a sniper is worth waaaay more than a general infantry man's rifle, not a retro fitted job, a real orig job.

However, way off topic.

OP.For deer stalking use a scope.
My Da's old anschutz has an offset Atlas scope which makes it possible to use the rifles open sights also.
However that was scoped in 1964 when times were poor.

Nowadays you could pick up a .308 with scope for ~€6-700

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Bunny, a genuine "snipers" rifle from WWII that the serial No corresponded with a sniper is worth waaaay more than a general infantry man's rifle, not a retro fitted job, a real orig job.

But then again I usually am when you post :pac:

Seen as you toook us off topic it's only right you should ask us to get back on topic

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

But then again I usually am when you post :pac:

Seen as you toook us off topic it's only right you should ask us to get back on topic

The only reason I mentioned a military rifle was, most Civilian rifles migrated away from open sights many years ago.

(and there is very little pics of decent open hunting sights online )

I know you woul not advise a person to use open sights on deer in Ireland a most of our hunting is not less than 50 yards, and is in low light..

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

The only reason I mentioned a military rifle was, most Civilian rifles migrated away from open sights many years ago...

Really, I'm sure the ISSF and most of the VCRAI lads among others wouldn't agree with that comment;)

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

(and there is very little pics of decent open hunting sights online )..

So, if it's not online it doesn't exist :P

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I know you woul not advise a person to use open sights on deer in Ireland a most of our hunting is not less than 50 yards, and is in low light..

I wouldn't advise anyone on anything about deer hunting as you might have noticed in the threads relevant to deer hunting as I don't do it ....... yet

I learned to shoot (not in the FCA) many years ago with rifles with open sights and could always hit what I aimed at. Now I use scopes on my hunting rifles BUT only because they make it easier and my eyesight is not was it used to be My recently acquired Sako Finnfire has open sights and I will be using them a lot more in the near future

It wasn't me!

Most rifles for the European and US markets still come with iron sights. Most are alright, very few are really excellent. Best I've seen on a factory rifle were the Mauser ones, with tru-glo inserts, but msot importantly, they were properly proportioned (for me - iron sights are very personal) and sharply defined and blacked. Aperture sights, such as found on ISSF rifles, are extraordinarily accurate. Certainly as accurate as a scope on round aiming marks, and for me, moreso. Have seen plenty of ten-shot groups under two inches at 300m with them. In terms of hunting, they're much, much faster than a scope is ever going to be to get on target and the lack of visible bouncing means you'll get a shot off in good time. For deer-stalking, at fairly formidable ranges, then yeah, a scope is better for precise identification in low light and the ability to clearly see and identify your backstop and the target's surrounds. At short ranges though, or at running game, iron sights are superb.

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

Really, I'm sure the ISSF and most of the VCRAI lads among others wouldn't agree with that comment;)
ISSF is not Hunting.......
VCRAI is Vintage.......OP wanted a hunting rifle with open sights under €500



So, if it's not online it doesn't exist :P
yes:p.....



I wouldn't advise anyone on anything about deer hunting as you might have noticed in the threads relevant to deer hunting as I don't do it ....... yet

I learned to shoot (not in the FCA) many years ago with rifles with open sights and could always hit what I aimed at. Now I use scopes on my hunting rifles BUT only because they make it easier and my eyesight is not was it used to be My recently acquired Sako Finnfire has open sights and I will be using them a lot more in the near future

I learned to shoot many years ago to on open sights ad like most migrated over to optics and never went back

The closest I used was
http://www.zeiss.com/c1256bcf0020be5f/Contents-Frame/ea0375ea5f622762852576bf00660b78
OP would the above link be of any interest to you?
Zeiss are expensive, but there are cheaper options available

However on the continant these are mostly used on driven boar shooting. Deer stalking in Ireland is about getting close to a deer or relatively close 250 yards or less, and getting a shot off without the deer knowing you are there (keeps meat quality higher as animal is not stressed before being dispatched)

jingojonson

The lack of open sights on newer model rifles is a serious shortcoming
as far as I'm concerned. More is always better especially when open
sights are robust and useful for larger game at realistic distances as well as allowing you to develop your shooting skills.

If I do get a "modern" rifle I'll be looking to get sights fitted

Snake_Doctor

Baikal do a nice single shot .308, same mechanism as the single barrell shotgun that I fired recently. It got a good review in one of the shooting mags a few years ago. Its built like a T-34 Tank, and comes with open sights as well.
http://www.yorkguns.com/baikal_rifles.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NpYL5tMtlE&feature=related
S'Doc

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

The only reason I mentioned a military rifle was, most Civilian rifles migrated away from open sights many years ago...

To which I posted

bunny shooter wrote: »

Really, I'm sure the ISSF and most of the VCRAI lads among others wouldn't agree with that comment;)

To which you posted

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

ISSF is not Hunting.......
VCRAI is Vintage.......

Am I missing something?

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

............OP wanted a hunting rifle with open sights under €500

In that case he could but a Lee Enfield No. 4 MK 1 and this http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=29491/pid=12461/sku/Scope_Mount_fits_4___5_Lee_Enfield__no_rings

Sorted (although wouldn't be able to use open sights at same time as scope) and he can join VCRAI and shoot in the competitions too;)

Sure didn't you start off with a military surplus rifle shooting deer yourself?

Tackleberrywho

[QUOTE=bunny shooter


In that case he could but a Lee Enfield No. 4 MK 1 and this http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=29491/pid=12461/sku/Scope_Mount_fits_4___5_Lee_Enfield__no_rings

Sorted (although wouldn't be able to use open sights at same time as scope) and he can join VCRAI and shoot in the competitions too;)

Sure didn't you start off with a military surplus rifle shooting deer yourself?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I started with a Army surplus rifle.
That is why I would advise not using one at stalking.

Too heavy to carry and not compatible with a bipod.he safety was too clunky, and although the open sights were graduated to 2000 yards, I believe that was a little optimistic on a 6.5x55

I've met a good number of the VCRAI boys, all sound lads, but for stalking, a light short rifle pays dividends

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Yes, I started with a Army surplus rifle.
That is why I would advise not using one at stalking.

Too heavy to carry and not compatible with a bipod.he safety was too clunky, and although the open sights were graduated to 2000 yards, I believe that was a little optimistic on a 6.5x55

I've met a good number of the VCRAI boys, all sound lads, but for stalking, a light short rifle pays dividends IMVHO

Fixed that for you

Tackleberrywho

.308 stalking Rifle, with a few tweaks!

Glanton

jingojonson wrote: »

Hi All



I'm looking for something servicable to get me started
ie CZ or similar ideally with Iron sights. Don't mind if its old as long
as the barrel and receiver are in good condition.

Hello
I am just wondering for my own knowledge how would you know if the barrel and receiver were in good condition if buying a second hand c/f.
Would you just see how it grouped with 5 shots? or get the barrel bore scoped? or some thing else I am missing?

Cass

A few things i would look for, and i'm no expert;

• Have it bore scoped to check for wear of the barrel, damage, markings.
• Check the crown for pitting.
• Check the chamber for damage, and oddly enough poor cleaning.
• Disassemble the bolt to check for wearing to the firing pin, and any build up indicating poor cleaning.
• Check the breach for markings from poor cleaning regime, damage from over loaded/new higher loaded rounds.
• Obviously the stock for damage, but more importantly repaired damage.
• Check any open/aperature sights for tightness, and working order.

I'm no gunsmith so these would be limited to my own personal experience which may not be up to scratch, but if i was serious about an old rifle i would have a gunsmith/competent person come with me and inspect it thoroughly.

Tackleberrywho

Pitted Rifle Crown
http://media.photobucket.com/image/pitted%20rifle%20crown/Asmodeus6/Guns/SDC10719.jpg

Pitted Rifling
http://media.photobucket.com/image/pitted%20rifle/StockersPics/J19D0116.jpg

When the bolt of a new rifle is rearward/open there is very little play in it.
A worn action will have a sloppy bolt from cycling thousands of rounds.

Just some of the things to watch out for when buying a second hand rifle.

Glanton

Thanks for the answers guys. I intend to apply for a 22 c/f in the next 6 months and I am still undecided as wheather to look for a second hand bargain or just go new.
I have have heard some scare stories in the past about new barrels being heat up too much and do not want to end up buying a pig in a poke!