1216 packs of abortion pills seized in 2009

GarlicBread

Welcome to Ireland - Warning, may contain catholic facism and womens right abuses, procede with caution.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/1026/1224282004957.html

So now not only is the state not providing abortion, but they actually have customs seizing abortion pills. As if abortion in this country isnt enough of a joke allready, then add to that the embarassing spectacle of our attourney general defending the violation of irish womens rights in the euro court of human rights, it just beggers belief.

1216 packs seized
1216 more backstreet abortions putting womens lives at risk.

The Irish state cant even manage its own affairs, why does it still insist on trying to manage the affairs of every vagina in the country.

Hands off i say!

Liber8or

Abortions for some?

admiralofthefleet

i absolutely despise the catholic cult but i also believe in the right to life

WindSock

Yay, was only thinking yesterday how we were due another abortion thread.

Rented Mule

GarlicBread wrote: »

The Irish state cant even manage its own affairs, why does it still insist on trying to manage the affairs of every vagina in the country.

Hands off i say!

***** managing ***** ?

alwaysadub

Liber8or wrote: »

Abortions for some?

Miniture American flags for others.

bronte

This is the danger of it.
Women will turn to dodgy methods such as this in desperation and possibly harm or kill themselves.

sonic85

Liber8or wrote: »

Abortions for some?

recession for all

Logical Fallacy

GarlicBread wrote: »

Welcome to Ireland - Warning, may contain catholic facism and womens right abuses, procede with caution.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/1026/1224282004957.html

So now not only is the state not providing abortion, but they actually have customs seizing abortion pills. As if abortion in this country isnt enough of a joke allready, then add to that the embarassing spectacle of our attourney general defending the violation of irish womens rights in the euro court of human rights, it just beggers belief.

1216 packs seized
1216 more backstreet abortions putting womens lives at risk.

The Irish state cant even manage its own affairs, why does it still insist on trying to manage the affairs of every vagina in the country.

Hands off i say!

Indeed, lets not worry about the dangers or side effects of such things.

RMD

If a person wants an abortion it's usually for a good reason. Even if that reason is they're to young to be a parent, or simply down want a child then I support it. A parent who doesn't want a child will more than likely not be a good parent.

But on the other hand I don't like the sound of pills inducing abortions. If a serious procedure is going to be done, have it done by a qualified person and nobody else.

brummytom

GarlicBread wrote: »

Welcome to Ireland - Warning, may contain catholic facism and womens right abuses, procede with caution.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/1026/1224282004957.html

So now not only is the state not providing abortion, but they actually have customs seizing abortion pills. As if abortion in this country isnt enough of a joke allready, then add to that the embarassing spectacle of our attourney general defending the violation of irish womens rights in the euro court of human rights, it just beggers belief.

1216 packs seized
1216 more backstreet abortions putting womens lives at risk.

The Irish state cant even manage its own affairs, why does it still insist on trying to manage the affairs of every vagina in the country.

Hands off i say!

They're illegal.


Therefore, they should be seized.

WindSock

bronte wrote: »

This is the danger of it.
Women will turn to dodgy methods such as this in desperation and possibly harm or kill themselves.

I may as well start it off as sensationally as I can...

Oh well they deserve to if they intend to kill an unborn child!!!!

bronte

WindSock wrote: »

I may as well start it off as sensationally as I can...

Oh well they deserve to if they intend to kill an unborn child!!!!

Those bastards!

GLaDOS

Regardless of whether you agree with abortions or not, you can't allow unregulated medicine from unqualified people.

Chuchoter

Gerri Santoro waiting to happen. It is shocking we do not have a safe way for women to decide what happens within their own bodies. I can understand why they took them, they are very high doses of hormones that are dangerous if not properly administered. This should not be happening.

sonic85

wont somebody think of the children!

WindSock

They can't let these types of medicines seep into the country illegally. I mean, what about those poor people employed in the coat hanger assembly factory? They will be out of jobs. Won't somebody think of the jobs?

Nodin

WindSock wrote: »

They can't let these types of medicines seep into the country illegally. I mean, what about those poor people employed in the coat hanger assembly factory? They will be out of jobs. Won't somebody think of the jobs?

...and the step ladder folk, don't forget them.

GarlicBread

WindSock wrote: »

They can't let these types of medicines seep into the country illegally. I mean, what about those poor people employed in the coat hanger assembly factory? They will be out of jobs. Won't somebody think of the jobs?

Well, as it stands we are supporting jobs in the british and french health systems with our most appauling export. Time to stop being children and to bring those jobs home.

Millicent

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Regardless of whether you agree with abortions or not, you can't allow unregulated medicine from unqualified people.

Yup, I've outed myself as a feminist here and even I don't agree with unregulated abortion pills being bought over the internet etc. Who knows what their efficacy is or whether foetal damage would occur without abortion? Or their potential side effects or even what ingredients are in them? I understand that some women are desperate but customs had no option but to seize those pills.

miss_shadow

Women will have abortions no matter what lies in their path! making it illegal only makes the ordeal more of an ordeal..

Father Damo

bronte wrote: »

This is the danger of it.
Women will turn to dodgy methods such as this in desperation and possibly harm or kill themselves.

Or get a cheap flight abroad. Jesus like :pac: I doubt theres been a backstreet abortion in Ireland in 25 years minimum.

My God, customs seizing drugs which have not been passed for sale by the dept of health. Shocking.

Chuchoter

Father Damo wrote: »

Or get a cheap flight abroad. Jesus like :pac: I doubt theres been a backstreet abortion in Ireland in 25 years minimum.

My God, customs seizing drugs which have not been passed for sale by the dept of health. Shocking.

Because all teenage girls are able to hop off to the north for a few days without the parents noticing. What about women who have been raped and don't want to tell anyone, but can't disappear for a few days with no-one asking questions? Women in abusive relationships who don't want to be pregnant but can't escape their husbands long enough to get to the north and back? Money issues?

Its not that easy to disappear and then come back and no-one notice you're gone.

bronte

Father Damo wrote: »

Or get a cheap flight abroad. Jesus like :pac: I doubt theres been a backstreet abortion in Ireland in 25 years minimum.

My God, customs seizing drugs which have not been passed for sale by the dept of health. Shocking.

Not objecting to the seizing of the drugs there...I'm saying we should wake up and stop exporting important issues to England.

WindSock

crayolastereo wrote: »

Because all teenage girls are able to hop off to the north for a few days without the parents noticing. What about women who have been raped and don't want to tell anyone, but can't disappear for a few days with no-one asking questions? Women in abusive relationships who don't want to be pregnant but can't escape their husbands long enough to get to the north and back? Money issues?

Its not that easy to disappear and then come back and no-one notice you're gone.

Is abortion even legal in the North?

gurramok

Oh god, only 24 replies so far. Any bets that this abortion debate will have a thousand replies before the morning?:)

Haven't seen anyone shout yet in their responses!

Chuchoter

WindSock wrote: »

Is abortion even legal in the North?

Just checked, its actually not. Which kind of makes my point more valid, but sorry for the silly mistake, thought all laws in the UK applied in the north :P

Sulmac

WindSock wrote: »

Is abortion even legal in the North?

It's not, unless there's a threat to the life or health (including mental health) of the woman.

Most women in NI also go to Britain for abortion.

edit: There's actually an interesting idea that, if it was legalised in the North than the Republic would have to follow suit due to the "equal rights in both jurisdictions" clause in the Good Friday Agreement. Whether or not that's true, I have no idea.

philologos

Another one of these threads, and OP if abortion is illegal in the State, what do you expect?

goose2005

WindSock wrote: »

Is abortion even legal in the North?

No. The UK has three separate legal systems: NI, Scotland and England-Wales.

EverEvolving

miss_shadow wrote: »

Women will have abortions no matter what lies in their path! making it illegal only makes the ordeal more of an ordeal..

I totally agree with this, the right or wrong aspect of the argument up to the individual. Pro choice all the way.

FoxT

Abortion is horrid. I really mean that, from the bottom of my heart.



Nevertheless there will always be a demand for it, and what we are doing today in Ireland ( no attempt to minimise the demand for it, and export 000's of abortions every year) is worse than abortion itself - it is morally bankrupt.

There will always be women without means who will desperately want to abort, and will risk their lives/health to do so. Catching one shipment of uncontrolled drugs wont deal with this issue.

- There needs to be a mandatory, non-denominational course to Leaving Certificate level covering
- Relationships
- Sexuality
- Parenting
- Health
This could be for a reasonable cost if , say, Irish was not mandatory at LC level. I know I would prefer my children to attend this, than learn Irish.


- Contraceptives & the MAP need to be freely (and safely in the case of the MAP or the pill ) available to all. A 30 year old woman in D4 should not have easier access than a 17-year old girl in Ballydehob.

- Abortion should be permitted provided that it is early in the term. Women contemplating it should have access to non-judgemental & supportive counselling services, and fostering or adoption should be promoted more. There should also be a 3rd option - where the baby could be adopted but the 'natural' mother would have visiting rights - ie 'giving up for adoption', but without the 'giving up'.

If all of the above were implemented, I am convinced that the demand for abortion would plummet, and I would rather see this happen ( ie say 500-1000 abortions a year in Ireland) than exporting 6000 to 7000 a year.

The papists wont stand for it though, despite their claims that abortion is a great social evil - in fact they would campaign against all of the above, tooth & nail.

- FoxT

Millicent

FoxT wrote: »

Abortion is horrid. I really mean that, from the bottom of my heart.



Nevertheless there will always be a demand for it, and what we are doing today in Ireland ( no attempt to minimise the demand for it, and export 000's of abortions every year) is worse than abortion itself - it is morally bankrupt.

There will always be women without means who will desperately want to abort, and will risk their lives/health to do so. Catching one shipment of uncontrolled drugs wont deal with this issue.

- There needs to be a mandatory, non-denominational course to Leaving Certificate level covering
- Relationships
- Sexuality
- Parenting
- Health
This could be for a reasonable cost if , say, Irish was not mandatory at LC level. I know I would prefer my children to attend this, than learn Irish.


- Contraceptives & the MAP need to be freely (and safely in the case of the MAP or the pill ) available to all. A 30 year old woman in D4 should not have easier access than a 17-year old girl in Ballydehob.

- Abortion should be permitted provided that it is early in the term. Mothers need access to non-judgemental & supportive counselling services.

If all of the above were implemented, I am convinced that the demand for abortion would plummet, and I would rather see this happen ( ie say 500-1000 abortions a year in Ireland) than exporting 6000 to 7000 a year.

The papists wont stand for it though, despite their claims that abortion is a great social evil - in fact they would campaign against all of the above, tooth & nail.

- FoxT

Fox T, just had to comment to say your ability to separate your personal feelings about abortion from the debate is very refreshing.

philologos

OK, but if the State is to argue this from the perspective of the right to life it becomes considerably more difficult to just say "Lets legalise abortion".

By the by, in comparison to other countries our abortion rate is quite low. For example I think it's something like 4,000 annually, if we are to compare this with Wales which has a similar population it is 8,000 there.

Sulmac

You're completely right, FoxT - this is a societal issue, not just a personal one.

Millicent

Jakkass wrote: »

OK, but if the State is to argue this from the perspective of the right to life it becomes considerably more difficult to just say "Lets legalise abortion".

By the by, in comparison to other countries our abortion rate is quite low. For example I think it's something like 4,000 annually, if we are to compare this with Wales which has a similar population it is 8,000 there.

Might that be because abortion is legal in Wales?

Father Damo

crayolastereo wrote: »

Because all teenage girls are able to hop off to the north for a few days without the parents noticing. .

Yes. Because if abortion was legal it would be carried out on 14 year olds without parental consent.

Jesus ****ing Christ :rolleyes:

oompaloompa

FoxT I agree, abortion is horrid, however sometimes it is the best decision for the mother and child.

I really believe if abortion was to be legalised in Ireland, it would very quickly slip into the rip off Ireland culture, forcing women to take a trip to the UK instead for financial reasons.

Instead of this, I would like to see abortion legalised, but not under the already crumbling HSE. IMO it would need to be an independent body, which ensured that each woman is given the best standard of care before, during and after the procedure at a reasonable cost which was accessible, but not so low that it became a routine procedure for some.

Too many women go to the UK for abortion, and subsequently present to an Irish hospital with complications. Treatment of any issues would be simpler if aftercare was completed by the same body who carried out the initial procedure.

If Ireland stepped out of holy Catholic mode, they would agree to the legalisation of abortion and accept that since it is sometimes a necessary evil, we should protect the women of Ireland as best we can.

Min

Make love, not war on the unborn.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Father Damo wrote: »

Or get a cheap flight abroad. Jesus like :pac: I doubt theres been a backstreet abortion in Ireland in 25 years minimum.

My God, customs seizing drugs which have not been passed for sale by the dept of health. Shocking.

A backstreet abortion doesn't just refer to an abortion literally performed at the back of a street.

People end up buying drugs to kill the embryo or initiate labour at too early a stage for survival.

These drugs are unregulated if coming from illicit sources and dangerous if not used under medical supervision.

bronte

Min wrote: »

Make love, not war on the unborn.

Sigh.

Now where is my copy of "How to accept that you are either a human incubator or celibate and hopefully won't be raped"

Min

bronte wrote: »

Sigh.

Now where is my copy of "How to accept that you are either a human incubator or celibate and hopefully won't be raped"

If your existence is due to the result of rape, you are telling me we shouldn't have a bronte on this forum.

Chuchoter

Father Damo wrote: »

Yes. Because if abortion was legal it would be carried out on 14 year olds without parental consent.

Jesus ****ing Christ :rolleyes:

No need to start swearing at me.

What you said was that backstreet abortions were a thing of the past all women were able to make the short hop over to have an abortion in the UK. I pointed out that this was simply not true. There are several groups at risk of needing an unsafe abortion

I am not saying 14 year olds would be having abortions with no-one knowing. However, the UK does allow under 16s to have abortions without parental consent if two doctors agree on the subject. Giving young women somewhere to go and control over their bodies in a confidential way is not a bad thing.

Min

crayolastereo wrote: »

No need to start swearing at me.

What you said was that backstreet abortions were a thing of the past all women were able to make the short hop over to have an abortion in the UK. I pointed out that this was simply not true. There are several groups at risk of needing an unsafe abortion

I am not saying 14 year olds would be having abortions with no-one knowing. However, the UK does allow under 16s to have abortions without parental consent if two doctors agree on the subject. Giving young women somewhere to go and control over their bodies in a confidential way is not a bad thing.

Did the 14 year old (not talking about rape) not have control of her body when she was having sex?

Millicent

Min wrote: »

Did the 14 year old (not talking about rape) not have control of her body when she was having sex?

Legally, in Ireland at least, it's statutory rape if the girl is 14 so the point is moot.

Chuchoter

Min wrote: »

Did the 14 year old (not talking about rape) not have control of her body when she was having sex?

She is 14. You're the one who brought up the age thing and not being able to make decisions by herself (without parents knowing) you can't back out of it now. 14 year olds make mistakes.

In any case, I am not beholden to my body's ability to carry children. Its mine and I'll decide what happens with it.

philologos

Millicent wrote: »

Might that be because abortion is legal in Wales?

Low numbers of abortions => good as I would see it, as less lives are destroyed, and indeed more children have the opportunity to experience life as you or I do.

Personally, I think it is good in this country that only in the most serious of cases would it ever be considered to abort, namely a health risk to the mother.

There is something horrid about the idea that people can decide who lives or who dies, particularly when it comes to ones own children.

bronte

Min wrote: »

If your existence is due to the result of rape, you are telling me we shouldn't have a bronte on this forum.

No it is not.
Actually if we really want to go into it...lets.

I was concieved in 1984 to a 16 year old schoolgirl who I'm guessing had no access to condoms considering how available they were at the time. Especially to unmarried people. I was adopted via a religious adoption society who imposed a condition on my adoption that I be raised in the faith involved.
This faith opposes the use of any contraceptive and abortion.

You can start to get an idea why I passionately believe that women should have the right to emergency contraception/abortion in my home country.
The anguish that my birth mother must have faced is disturbing and all because of the situation as it stands in Ireland.

It needs to change.

Einhard

miss_shadow wrote: »

Women will have abortions no matter what lies in their path! making it illegal only makes the ordeal more of an ordeal..

Heroin addicts will seek heroin no matter what lies in their path. Perhaps heroin should be lagalised too. And crack while we're at it. Laws shouldn't be repealed simply because people are willing to circumvent those laws. Otherwise the Irish state would have legalised tax evasion for the wealthy in the 80s. You'll have to come up with a better argument than that I'm afraid.

Einhard

crayolastereo wrote: »

What about women who have been raped and don't want to tell anyone, but can't disappear for a few days with no-one asking questions?

AFAIK, rape victims are entitled to abortions in the Republic.

scientific1982

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

i absolutely despise the catholic cult but i also believe in the right to life

Yeah im with you. Im an atheist and no fan of religion but im not in favour of abortion with the exception of extreme circumstances.