A 2ND REPUBLIC

how are you?

I wrote this thread with a heavy heart and an anger and frustration with the situation Ireland now finds its self.We have been beaten down as a society,economy and nation.Have we no fight in us??

looking at the french on tv tonight I ask myself WHERE IS OUR PRIDE??

Im very proud of this country and all it represents and stands for but looking at the next ten years of cutbacks,higher taxes,misery for hundreds of thousands with out work and facing crippling debts I ask:CAN WE TAKE CONTROL OF OUR DESTINY?

the vast majority are going to endure the pain for an elite group of irresponsible bankers and out of touch politicians who DO NOT FEEL THE REAL PAIN

Looking at labour and fianna gael it makes me feel sick to know that they too do not have the courage to take decisive and inspired action that will create a new ireland that is just and equal for all.we are staring down a dead decade or more of poor economic growth that will decay our society,values,confidence,youth and our nation.

Irish people are very easy going and do not hit the streets or protest in any great force.surely it is time that we as irish men and irish women arise from the stranglehold of financial markets,bondholders and an inept political class to BUILD A NEW DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF IRELAND

Go mbeannaí Dia duit

MrStuffins

Get off your arse and do something then!

A thread on Boards is not the answer!

Donkey Oaty

how are you? wrote: »

Looking at labour and fianna gael it makes me feel sick to know that they too do not have the courage to take decisive and inspired action that will create a new ireland that is just and equal for all.

You there.

Yes, you.

Outline your solutions, then I might have a listen to what you have to say.

how are you?

MrStuffins wrote: »

Get off your arse and do something then!

A thread on Boards is not the answer!

You know nothing of what i do or have done.Boards is a great medium to broadcast ideas and gauge support.

its time for people to awaken on mass and you never know one thread could influence many of people who might not otherwise have acted.

fontanalis

how are you? wrote: »

I wrote this thread with a heavy heart and an anger and frustration with the situation Ireland now finds its self.We have been beaten down as a society,economy and nation.Have we no fight in us??

looking at the french on tv tonight I ask myself WHERE IS OUR PRIDE??

Im very proud of this country and all it represents and stands for but looking at the next ten years of cutbacks,higher taxes,misery for hundreds of thousands with out work and facing crippling debts I ask:CAN WE TAKE CONTROL OF OUR DESTINY?

the vast majority are going to endure the pain for an elite group of irresponsible bankers and out of touch politicians who DO NOT FEEL THE REAL PAIN

Looking at labour and fianna gael it makes me feel sick to know that they too do not have the courage to take decisive and inspired action that will create a new ireland that is just and equal for all.we are staring down a dead decade or more of poor economic growth that will decay our society,values,confidence,youth and our nation.

Irish people are very easy going and do not hit the streets or protest in any great force.surely it is time that we as irish men and irish women arise from the stranglehold of financial markets,bondholders and an inept political class to BUILD A NEW DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF IRELAND

Go mbeannaí Dia duit

Build it with what, Lego?

Donkey Oaty

how are you? wrote: »

Boards is a great medium to broadcast ideas and gauge support.

What ideas? Support for what?

how are you?

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

You there.

Yes, you.

Outline your solutions, then I might have a listen to what you have to say.

Not screwing us all for the next decade maybe.telling europe that we will not cripple the country with cuts . get real political reform and real support to businesss and real support to people in financial misery.

fontanalis

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

What ideas? Support for what?

I don't know what these types of posts are even about, do people jsut think a few thousand people runnig around destroying property and stalling the country will bring an end to problems.

mojesius

how are you? wrote: »

You know nothing of what i do or have done.Boards is a great medium to broadcast ideas and gauge support.

its time for people to awaken on mass and you never know one thread could influence many of people who might not otherwise have acted.

What about those of us who do not attend mass? Can we also get involved?

fontanalis

how are you? wrote: »

Not screwing us all for the next decade maybe.telling europe that we will not cripple the country with cuts . get real political reform and real support to businesss and real support to people in financial misery.

You mean instead of Ireland having to pay back debt it should borrow even more? Oh yeah it's all Euroeps fault now.

Donkey Oaty

how are you? wrote: »

Not screwing us all for the next decade maybe.telling europe that we will not cripple the country with cuts . get real political reform and real support to businesss and real support to people in financial misery.

Funnily enough, nearly all the politicians say they are in favour of this.

Insofar as it means anything.

AckwelFoley

"looking at the french"

See thats your first mistake.

They are fcuked too. Why, because they cant afford to pay for a nation that doesnt want to work past 55

Donkey Oaty

fontanalis wrote: »

I don't know what these types of posts are even about, do people jsut think a few thousand people runnig around destroying property and stalling the country will bring an end to problems.

Alarmingly, some of them seem to think exactly that.

Nevermind_

I think most people are just too busy with everyday life, trying to pay bills keep their job etc. to bother protesting, even if they are outraged at what is happening.

In the 80s we didnt have as much employment/debt as we do now, so we had plenty of time for striking/marching

OpenYourEyes

how are you? wrote: »

its time for people to awaken on mass and you never know one thread could influence many of people who might not otherwise have acted.

At least this provided some entertainment to an otherwise not very good thread!

how are you?

snyper wrote: »

"looking at the french"

See thats your first mistake.

They are fcuked too. Why, because they cant afford to pay for a nation that doesnt want to work past 55

the french arnt just protesting against the retiremant age.they see this as a battle with the government because the people are being asked to pay for a financial crisis they,in the most part,had no invovement in.

Rebelheart

Lads, how about less of this shít knocking a fella when he expresses such anger. Try praise, encouragement and then suggestions for how he could improve?

A person should be encouraged to speak up against something he/she finds unjust, not derided for it. Respect.

starbelgrade

how are you? wrote: »

You know nothing of what i do or have done.

I bet you started a Facebook campaign, didn't you?

starbelgrade

Rebelheart wrote: »

Lads, how about less of this shít knocking a fella when he expresses such anger. Try praise, encouragement and then suggestions for how he could improve?

A person should be encouraged to speak up against something he/she finds unjust, not derided for it. Respect.

Bollox. He said what he wanted to say & people are replying as they see fit.

Respect goes both ways.

AckwelFoley

Nevermind_ wrote: »

I think most people are just too busy with everyday life, trying to pay bills keep their job etc. to bother protesting, even if they are outraged at what is happening.

In the 80s we didnt have as much employment/debt as we do now, so we had plenty of time for striking/marching

AH isnt a representation of the electorate - not even a close one.

People are suprisingly clued in to what going on, and what needs to be done...

Sadly with the amount on nonsence been posted on this forum and spouted out on Newstalk one would think its representative. Thankfully its not.

LarrytheLantern

i would love to take to the streets and protest, but it rains so much in this country and my hair looks awful when it gets wet ..................

could we do it in July?

dotsman

how are you? wrote: »

I wrote this thread with a heavy heart and an anger and frustration with the situation Ireland now finds its self.We have been beaten down as a society,economy and nation.Have we no fight in us??

I don't feel so.

how are you? wrote: »

looking at the french on tv tonight I ask myself WHERE IS OUR PRIDE??

You were looking at the french destroying their country, running around like headless chickens demanding to have their country permanently condemned to be a failed socialist state?

how are you? wrote: »

Im very proud of this country and all it represents and stands for but looking at the next ten years of cutbacks,higher taxes,misery for hundreds of thousands with out work and facing crippling debts I ask:CAN WE TAKE CONTROL OF OUR DESTINY?

Yes, you can vote in the next election. And when you vote, take the responsibility to intelligently analyse all the options and choose sensibly.

how are you? wrote: »

the vast majority are going to endure the pain for an elite group of irresponsible bankers and out of touch politicians who DO NOT FEEL THE REAL PAIN

The moment you go on about the "bankers" and the politicians, you begin to miss the point. WE did this, and it's up to us to bear the responsibility of fixing it.

how are you? wrote: »

Looking at labour and fianna gael it makes me feel sick to know that they too do not have the courage to take decisive and inspired action that will create a new ireland that is just and equal for all.we are staring down a dead decade or more of poor economic growth that will decay our society,values,confidence,youth and our nation.

Yes, I agree Labour (useless), and Finn Gael (more of the same with a twist of lemon) are not great alternatives.

However, "decay our society,values,confidence,youth and our nation"??? That's what everybody was saying the boom was doing to us!

how are you? wrote: »

Irish people are very easy going and do not hit the streets or protest in any great force.surely it is time that we as irish men and irish women arise from the stranglehold of financial markets,bondholders and an inept political class to BUILD A NEW DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF IRELAND

And what exactly will be different about this? How exactly will it work? How will we bring about this new "country"?



My friend, I think you need to relax. You have a very negative outlook on life. Sure, financially things aren't the best right now (even though you're still in a better position than 90% of the population of this planet). But, there's more to life than just money and figures. Enjoy yourself. You only get one life. Live it. Enjoy it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ

AckwelFoley

how are you? wrote: »

the french arnt just protesting against the retiremant age.they see this as a battle with the government because the people are being asked to pay for a financial crisis they,in the most part,had no invovement in.

Of course, however may they protest untill the proverbial cow comes home it changes nothing. If one earns 500 per week and spends 800 per week, something must be cut, protesting saying it not my fault doesnt cut back on the expenditure, its nice to vent, but wont solve the problem

Rebelheart

starbelgrade wrote: »

Bollox. He said what he wanted to say & people are replying as they see fit.

Respect goes both ways.

Why is it that in this country - a land where the "rebel" is supposedly held in high esteem - we have a society in the real world which deplores any person or groups of persons who rebels against something in the same generation?

Compared to, for instance, the French, the Irish people are a complete walkover these days. Even in the 1970s hundreds of thousands of Irish people took to the streets to protest against taxes. Now, we are spiritually conquered.

The Irish have huge, huge cause to be on the streets in large numbers. They should be calling for heads. They should be demanding a wholesale change in the political - particularly the political patronage - system in this state. But the Irish people aren't.

In this context, anybody who speaks up against this huge majority of lily-livered spineless sorry excuses for Irish people is worthy of encouraging. Here on Boards.ie, however, a person who speaks up is derided by the "don't rock the boat" mob in Afterhours.

starbelgrade

Rebelheart wrote: »

Why is it that in this country - a land where the "rebel" is supposedly held in high esteem - we have a society in the real world which deplores any person or groups of persons who rebels against something in the same generation?

Compared to, for instance, the French, the Irish people are a complete walkover these days. Even in the 1970s hundreds of thousands of Irish people took to the streets to protest against taxes. Now, we are spiritually conquered.

The Irish have huge, huge cause to be on the streets in large numbers. They should be calling for heads. They should be demanding a wholesale change in the political - particularly the political patronage - system in this state. But the Irish people aren't.

In this context, anybody who speaks up against this huge majority of lily-livered spineless sorry excuses for Irish people is worthy of encouraging. Here on Boards.ie, however, a person who speaks up is derided by the "don't rock the boat" mob in Afterhours.

Meh.

Rebelheart

snyper wrote: »

Of course, however may they protest untill the proverbial cow comes home it changes nothing. If one earns 500 per week and spends 800 per week, something must be cut, protesting saying it not my fault doesnt cut back on the expenditure, its nice to vent, but wont solve the problem

This is self-serving defeatist bullshít. Protesting does change things. Look at how France has escaped the worst of the recession because so many people have protested to ensure state involvement in many more areas of the economy than existed in Ireland or the United States (and thus avoid the worst excesses of boom-bust cycles).

For that matter, ask any OAP in this state about how they still have their medical card.

Protesting works.

Donkey Oaty

Rebelheart wrote: »

Here on Boards.ie, however, a person who speaks up is derided by the "don't rock the boat" mob in Afterhours.

The "Don't rock the boat" mob? What kind of filter have you got on this forum? Everyone here hates the status quo.

They're interested in solutions though, not bland nonsense.

Rebelheart

starbelgrade wrote: »

Meh.

That was intelligent.

ascanbe

snyper wrote: »

Of course, however may they protest untill the proverbial cow comes home it changes nothing. If one earns 500 per week and spends 800 per week, something must be cut, protesting saying it not my fault doesnt cut back on the expenditure, its nice to vent, but wont solve the problem

How about if the reason that 'one' is having to spend way beyond one's means every week, is that one is being forced to spend one's money on picking up the tab for debts one has no responsibility for?
The taxpayers of this country, the ones earning the 500 per week, in your analogy, will now be forced to spend most of the 500 per week they earn paying off these gamblers debts, rather than for the benifit of themselves.
And will actually have to continue borrowing; that's if anyone will lend to them.

starbelgrade

Rebelheart wrote: »

This is self-serving defeatist bullshít. Protesting does change things. Look at how France has escaped the worst of the recession because so many people have protested to ensure state involvement in many more areas of the economy than existed in Ireland or the United States (and thus avoid the worst excesses of boom-bust cycles).

For that matter, ask any OAP in this state about how they still have their medical card.

Protesting works.

EH?

France is the 2nd largest economy in Europe, the biggest agricultural producer in Europe, the biggest tourist destination in the world, the 4th largest weapons producer in the world & is the 2nd largest trading nation in Europe.

And you're saying that France escaped the worst of the recession because of protesting? Have you been smoking baguettes or something?

Celly Smunt

view blue text underneath my post for details.

starbelgrade

Rebelheart wrote: »

That was intelligent.

It was as worthy & well thought out reply as the post that it was a response to.

Rebelheart

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

The "Don't rock the boat" mob? What kind of filter have you got on this forum? Everyone here hates the status quo.

They're interested in solutions though, not bland nonsense.

Solutions have stages; most usually start off with anger against something or somebody. They then evolve into being defined by being in favour of something. Jumping on somebody for being at the first stage of that evolution shows no awareness of this development and only serves as a "shut the fúck up, horse; keep your head down and it'll all blow over".

We, the Irish people, need to encourage dissent against the fúcktards who have brought us here, and their mé féiner brethren who aspire to take over from them and rule this state/repeat the same problems by taking advice from the precise same civil servants.

fontanalis

Rebelheart wrote: »

This is self-serving defeatist bullshít. Protesting does change things. Look at how France has escaped the worst of the recession because so many people have protested to ensure state involvement in many more areas of the economy than existed in Ireland or the United States (and thus avoid the worst excesses of boom-bust cycles).

For that matter, ask any OAP in this state about how they still have their medical card.

Protesting works.

Effective protesting with good alternatives led by people with credibilty works. Most of these type posts call for revolution or taking to the streets come across as Wolfie Smith nonsense that seem to ignore the fact that there is a sh1t load of debt that has to be paid.

Yawns

starbelgrade wrote: »

Have you been smoking baguettes or something?

Ah Cusine de France

th3 s1aught3r

Nevermind_ wrote: »

I think most people are just too busy with everyday life, trying to pay bills keep their job etc. to bother protesting, even if they are outraged at what is happening.

Well there are nearly half a million people on the dole and I dont see them protesting either.
The French dont take **** from their government, never have. Even though they have loads of holidays, strikes every other week and an early retirement age, I'll bet their economy is in better shape than ours .

Saila

but how are you? though

Rebelheart

fontanalis wrote: »

Most of these type posts call for revolution or taking to the streets come across as Wolfie Smith nonsense that seem to ignore the fact that there is a sh1t load of debt that has to be paid.

What would happen if the Irish taxpayer did not pay for the debts of private individuals and firms? (be realistic)

CantGetNoSleep

The only way we will have French style strikes is if people won't be able to live reasonably on what they get from the dole / social welfare

Rebelheart

starbelgrade wrote: »

It was as worthy & well thought out reply as the post that it was a response to.

Don't flatter yourself.

SugarHigh

What have the current protests in France achieved that we should be trying to replicate?

Donkey Oaty

Rebelheart wrote: »

Solutions have stages; most usually start off with anger against something or somebody. They then evolve into being defined by being in favour of something. Jumping on somebody for being at the first stage of that evolution shows no awareness of this development and only serves as a "shut the fúck up, horse; keep your head down and it'll all blow over".

We, the Irish people, need to encourage dissent against the fúcktards who have brought us here, and their mé féiner brethren who aspire to take over from them and rule this state/repeat the same problems by taking advice from the precise same civil servants.

Most people are beyond the first stage, as you put it.

But you are on to something with the civil servants. People complain about their wages and perks but forget about the advice they have given.

Yawns

SugarHigh wrote: »

What have the current protests in France achieved that we should be trying to replicate?

Dry petrol stations and maybe job losses

fontanalis

Rebelheart wrote: »

What would happen if the Irish taxpayer did not pay for the debts of private individuals and firms? (be realistic)

I'm not saying the Irish tax payer should pay for Anglo irish Skank but the current government didn't just walk in by themselves. This mess really isn't a surprising outsome when you look at what a joke irish politic and the elctorate is.

Wompa1

Two thoughts come to mind.

1.) Grand Theft Auto 3 Chatterbox - The guy that is trying to get people to go to his rally but the rally doesn't have a purpose just that it's going to be great and really make a difference

2.) Homer Simpson - DEMOCRACY DOESN'T WORK!

Mystaeli

A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
Mohandas Gandhi

Yes somebody has misplaced the paddle and the creek is stinking something awful but why aren't questions being asked? Money is quite literally being pee'd against the wall in this country and all that the wasters (Politicos B(w)ankers and Chancers (property developers) who got us into this mess are doing is saying give us more of your money 'cos we don't have as much as we did have. If I'd have nicked a fraction of what these guys (non gender specific) have made disappear into offshore funds or relatives names from some old dear on the street or god forbid defaulted on a loan I would have been nailed to the wall or doing a stretch in the Notsojoy. Everybody should be (a la francais) screaming from the rooftops, but as a previous poster said no ranting without an offering... IMHO Dissolve the Seanad for a start, a bigger old boys (non gender specific) sinecure club may exist but... if you aren't sure see the makeup @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seanad_%C3%89ireann and how much would this put back into the coffers (no salaries, no spousal salaries, no expenses) a unicameral system works - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicameral unless we aren't all equal.

judestynes

how are you? wrote: »

I wrote this thread with a heavy heart and an anger and frustration with the situation Ireland now finds its self.We have been beaten down as a society,economy and nation.Have we no fight in us??

looking at the french on tv tonight I ask myself WHERE IS OUR PRIDE??

Im very proud of this country and all it represents and stands for but looking at the next ten years of cutbacks,higher taxes,misery for hundreds of thousands with out work and facing crippling debts I ask:CAN WE TAKE CONTROL OF OUR DESTINY?

the vast majority are going to endure the pain for an elite group of irresponsible bankers and out of touch politicians who DO NOT FEEL THE REAL PAIN

Looking at labour and fianna gael it makes me feel sick to know that they too do not have the courage to take decisive and inspired action that will create a new ireland that is just and equal for all.we are staring down a dead decade or more of poor economic growth that will decay our society,values,confidence,youth and our nation.

Irish people are very easy going and do not hit the streets or protest in any great force.surely it is time that we as irish men and irish women arise from the stranglehold of financial markets,bondholders and an inept political class to BUILD A NEW DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF IRELAND

Go mbeannaí Dia duit

Your spot on there mate. The first thing that need to be done is get rid of the "whats in it for me" attitude thats so previlent. Whats in it for everyone is a better situation than we have right now. Next thing, any elected public official before they take office swears an oath to do their uttmost for those whom they're sworn to represent, breaking such oath is a criminal offence and incurrs jail time for conduct onbecoming. The state pays to educate doctors, lawyers, engineers if the students acedemic stats in secondary school warrant further education, the pay back for this is 6 years service to the state on public work. These students cannot get a job i the private sector until this time period is completed. All personell who work at any level in the public sector come under review, if the tax payer isn't getting value for their tax money said employee gets the boot, this includes judges and gardai.

starbelgrade

judestynes wrote: »

The state pays to educate doctors, lawyers, engineers if the students acedemic stats in secondary school warrant further education, the pay back for this is 6 years service to the state on public work. These students cannot get a job i the private sector until this time period is completed.

The state pays / subsidises everyone's education. By your logic, everyone would be forced to work in the public sector for 6 years. I don't see the point in that at all.

Mystaeli

All compromise is based on give and take, but there can be no give and take on fundamentals. Any compromise on mere fundamentals is a surrender. For it is all give and no take.
Mohandas Gandhi

Why aren't the ahsouls paying the price or maybe I should ask the bookie to give me back all my loosing stakes with interest!

FreudianSlippers

starbelgrade wrote: »

The state pays / subsidises everyone's education. By your logic, everyone would be forced to work in the public sector for 6 years. I don't see the point in that at all.

Not to mention doctors must take a certain amount of public patients.
Lawyers (whatever ones OP is talking about - barristers? solicitors?) pay out the ass to become "Lawyers": King's Inns for barristers is €13,500 a year.

starbelgrade

Mystaeli wrote: »

All compromise is based on give and take, but there can be no give and take on fundamentals. Any compromise on mere fundamentals is a surrender. For it is all give and no take.
Mohandas Gandhi

Why aren't the ahsouls paying the price or maybe I should ask the bookie to give me back all my loosing stakes with interest!

Are you going to quote Gandhi in every single post?