Landlord charging tenants different prices for similar room

Cork

A guy moved into house last week & he is paying less rent per month for a similar type of room.

Landlord obviously cut the rent to rent the room.

I have no intention of paying higher rent than the new guy.

Has anyone been in a similar position?

fat__tony

Get on to your landord and negotiate the rent downwards. If he says no then tell him you'll be off.

Renters market and all that.

galwaystudent

If the renting market caused prices to rise and the new guy rented the room at a higher rate than you would you be asking the landlord could you pay more rent?

nxbyveromdwjpg

fat__tony wrote: »

Get on to your landord and negotiate the rent downwards. If he says no then tell him you'll be off.

If he's signed a lease with a price on it then that's just as unfair and annoying as if the landlord one day decided to charge him a higher rent, cos his landlord mate down the road got a higher price for a similar room he's renting out.

Hopefully, he'd let you leave and keep your deposit if you did that.

In any case, same topic discussed here last week - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056046082

djimi

Theres not much you can do if you have signed a lease. There are a whole lot of variables that can affect how much the landlord is charging the new tenant, and frankly its none of your business how much they are paying. The terms of your lease, which you signed and agreed to, have not changed, so youre not in much of a position to demand that you pay less.

Giblet

You agreed to pay that amount, you pay that amount. Unless your lease is due to expire and you can negotiate, or the landlord is willing, you can't do anything about it.

Cork

There is no lease.

I have no intention of paying any thing more than the other guy.

djimi

And what do you expect will happen when you go to your landlord whinging that the other fellow is paying less and you have no intention of paying more than him?

Cork

I'll give him a chance as to how he can justify charging differant prices for the same room.

A shop keeper cannot do the same for a can of beans.

I don't have a lease - so I am not stuck there.

djimi

Its not a can of beans, its letting a room.

There could be any number of reasons why the new tenant is paying less; for instance when you moved in there could have been 10 people willing to move in, whereas now the landlord might be struggling to find someone and had to drop the price.

The landlord is under no obligation to match your rent to that of other renters. By all means say it to them and see what they say, but if it was me I would not be expecting too good of a response tbh.

astrofool

Cork wrote: »

I'll give him a chance as to how he can justify charging differant prices for the same room.

A shop keeper cannot do the same for a can of beans.

I don't have a lease - so I am not stuck there.

A shopkeeper can charge whatever they want for a can of beans, as long as the buyer accepts the price. You accepted the cost, if you don't have a lease, then you have a part 4 tenancy, and need to give notice if you intend to move out, www.threshold.ie has the details.

And he doesn't have to justify anything to anyone about the price he charges, let alone someone "giving him a chance", the real world is going to eat you for breakfast.

Bob Z

astrofool wrote: »

A shopkeeper can charge whatever they want for a can of beans, as long as the buyer accepts the price. You accepted the cost, if you don't have a lease, then you have a part 4 tenancy, and need to give notice if you intend to move out, www.threshold.ie has the details.

And he doesn't have to justify anything to anyone about the price he charges, let alone someone "giving him a chance", the real world is going to eat you for breakfast.

so would you stay on in a room and pay more?

The landlord doesnt have to drop his price but if he doesnt the OP doesn't have to stay on

Jesus Wept

Seriously, the guy has no lease.
All he has to do is give the minimum amount of notice legally and he can walk.

Best of luck OP.
If you are speaking to him in person, have your letter of notice ready to hand to him.
Ask him to back date it to when the other guy moved in.

gl gl!

Jo King

astrofool wrote: »

if you don't have a lease, then you have a part 4 tenancy, and need to give notice if you intend to move out, www.threshold.ie has the details.

And he doesn't have to justify anything to anyone about the price he charges, l.

A part 4 tenancy does not arise unless the tenant has been there 6 months and serves a notice on the landlord claiming a part 4 tenancy. In this case the o/p only seems to have the lease of a bedroom an if so is not covered by the Residential Tenancies Act at all. No part 4 tenancy can ever come into being.

ztoical

The-Rigger wrote: »

Ask him to back date it to when the other guy moved in.

The OP can ask but I would be amazed at any LL that would agree to that. The OP agreed to pay the rent asked for the room regardless of what ever lease or not they signed. The LL appears to have been unable to rent another room in the property for the same price, this could be down to several factors, less demand and more rooms in the area for rent since the OP moved in, the rooms are different in something other then size [placement in the house, decor, less storage etc etc] to warrent the lower rent - really doesn't matter. The OP's business is between them and LL and what happens between the LL and other tenants is none of their business. As others have said if the other person was paying more would you look to have your rent increased to match?

Now it can't hurt to ask and the LL very likely will just lower the rent rather then having to find a new tenant but if I was the LL and the OP started asking me to back date the rent decrease I'd tell them to go jump. If the OP has no lease and is only renting a room they are free to leave but it works both ways and the LL is free to kick them out at any time as well.

Snakeblood

Cork wrote: »

There is no lease.

I have no intention of paying any thing more than the other guy.

you sound like the landlord is cheating you, and he's not. You should realise that.

Scambuster

You are paying above the market rate then. Sort it out.

ztoical

Scambuster wrote: »

You are paying above the market rate then. Sort it out.

They are paying what the market rate was when they agreed to rent the room, again as pointed out had the rent gone up would the OP be expected to pay more?

The OP can ask the LL to reduce the rent but the LL is not required to reduce it. Theres a good chance they will just not to have to bother getting someone else in but people seem to be implying that the LL has taken advantage or is doing something wrong. The OP, I assumed viewed the room, and was happy to pay the rent stated by the LL, the fact that someone else has rented a similar room [note similar does not mean the rooms are of equal value] from the LL at a different rent is between the LL and the other tenant.

Bob Z

ztoical wrote: »

They are paying what the market rate was when they agreed to rent the room, again as pointed out had the rent gone up would the OP be expected to pay more?

The OP can ask the LL to reduce the rent but the LL is not required to reduce it. Theres a good chance they will just not to have to bother getting someone else in but people seem to be implying that the LL has taken advantage or is doing something wrong. The OP, I assumed viewed the room, and was happy to pay the rent stated by the LL, the fact that someone else has rented a similar room [note similar does not mean the rooms are of equal value] from the LL at a different rent is between the LL and the other tenant.

the landlord hasnt done anything wrong but the tenant would be silly to keep paying him the same price

ztoical

Bob Z wrote: »

the landlord hasnt done anything wrong but the tenant would be silly to keep paying him the same price

Never said they should esp as they've stated they aren't tied into a lease so they should ask and move out if they aren't happy but there seemed to be a implication from some posters on this thread and on the other thread on the same topic that the LL was trying to cheat or trick the OP.

Bob Z

ztoical wrote: »

Never said they should esp as they've stated they aren't tied into a lease so they should ask and move out if they aren't happy but there seemed to be a implication from some posters on this thread and on the other thread on the same topic that the LL was trying to cheat or trick the OP.

I don't know about any other thread but no one is saying that here. in fact a lot of posters are taking the landlord side

ztoical

Bob Z wrote: »

I don't know about any other thread but no one is saying that here. in fact a lot of posters are taking the landlord side

Other thread is linked in the 4th post on this thread.

Scambuster

ztoical wrote: »

They are paying what the market rate was when they agreed to rent the room, again as pointed out had the rent gone up would the OP be expected to pay more?

The OP can ask the LL to reduce the rent but the LL is not required to reduce it. Theres a good chance they will just not to have to bother getting someone else in but people seem to be implying that the LL has taken advantage or is doing something wrong. The OP, I assumed viewed the room, and was happy to pay the rent stated by the LL, the fact that someone else has rented a similar room [note similar does not mean the rooms are of equal value] from the LL at a different rent is between the LL and the other tenant.

But they are not paying the market rate. And yes landlords often raise the rents if that is what they think the market will accept.

Giblet

The market rate is what people are paying, he's paying X amount so that's the market rate. Simples!!

(The "Market Rate" requirement was to prevent Landlords increasing the value of the rent after a year to something a tenant couldn't reasonably pay, not the average)

Scambuster

Giblet wrote: »

The market rate is what people are paying, he's paying X amount so that's the market rate. Simples!!

(The "Market Rate" requirement was to prevent Landlords increasing the value of the rent after a year to something a tenant couldn't reasonably pay, not the average)

No he is paying above the market rate. The landlord went to the market and thats what he got.

Giblet

As he did with Cork, and he hasn't adjusted the rent downwards because he doesn't have to, only if he looks for an increase above it in a new lease would it be seen as unreasonable, but he is paying the agreed rate. Cork, if you aren't happy with paying more, talk to the landlord, but he is under no obligation to agree.

Snakeblood

Scambuster wrote: »

No he is paying above the market rate. The landlord went to the market and thats what he got.

He went to the market and got the OP too. He didn't snag him from a low hanging vine.

Scambuster

Are any of you guys familiar with the concept of time?

F(x) != F(x+t) in this case.

Giblet

Yes, and t time ago, Cork agreed to pay x amount, which he still pays to this day.
Again, the landlord is under NO obligation to offer LOWER rent than has been agreed to, but Cork can seek lower rent after 12 months and ask for rent more in line with "Market Rates". It relates to new rate offered, not any previous rent offered and agreed to (Say if the landlord decides to up the rent by 50%).
Try stay on topic Scambuster using facts, not manic assertions trying to back up some sort of point. Try reading the PRTB guidelines on rent adjustment relating to "Market Rates"

PRTB wrote:

After each 12 months of a tenancy, tenants, as well as land-
lords, can seek a rent review. Reviews can take place no more
frequently than once a year unless there has been a substan-
tial change in the nature of the accommodation in the interim.

Tenants can seek a rent review even where no provision for
this is made in any tenancy agreement. Tenants must be noti-
fied in writing of the new rent at least 28 days before it is to
take effect. Tenants who consider that the new rent is above
the going market rate can refer the matter to the PRTB before
it is due to take effect or within 28 days from the receipt of
the notice, whichever is the later.

sweetie

Cork wrote: »

I'll give him a chance as to how he can justify charging differant prices for the same room.

A shop keeper cannot do the same for a can of beans.

I don't have a lease - so I am not stuck there.

where do ye live :P

if you have no lease (ye should) the landlord should change the rent if you threaten to walk

Scambuster

Who said he was under obligation. He might be obliged to when his tenant asks and he either has to accept or get a new tenant for the current Market rate. Or he can just keep it empty and not let it for less than it's worth.

Giblet

Scambuster wrote: »

Who said he was under obligation. He might be obliged to when his tenant asks and he either has to accept or get a new tenant for the current Market rate. Or he can just keep it empty and not let it for less than it's worth.

And the kind people on the thread have suggested he do talk to the landlord.

28064212

Scambuster wrote: »

Who said he was under obligation. He might be obliged to when his tenant asks and he either has to accept or get a new tenant for the current Market rate. Or he can just keep it empty and not let it for less than it's worth.

But the OP cannot insist the LL reduce his rate. He can threaten to move out if he doesn't, but that's the only card he can play. And yes, it will be hassle for the LL to go to the market and try and get a new tenant, but it's also a hassle for the OP to move out and try and find somewhere cheaper

djimi

Scambuster wrote: »

Who said he was under obligation. He might be obliged to when his tenant asks and he either has to accept or get a new tenant for the current Market rate. Or he can just keep it empty and not let it for less than it's worth.

Grown adults dont take to well to people throwing their toys out of the pram. If the OP goes to the landlord with the attitude of "lower my rent now or Ill walk" Id imagine the landlord will tell him where to go; I know I would if it was me.

Scambuster

djimi wrote: »

Grown adults dont take to well to people throwing their toys out of the pram. If the OP goes to the landlord with the attitude of "lower my rent now or Ill walk" Id imagine the landlord will tell him where to go; I know I would if it was me.

haha what an attitude. Massively inconvenience yourself, and lose out financially just to save face. Good idea.

It's a business and that's how any decent landlord will approach it.

djimi

I would have said its a greater inconvenience to the OP to have to find somewhere new to live for the same/less money and have to move their stuff to the new place rather than for the landlord to find someone new to move into the room if Im being honest.

Its not about what the OP is saying, its about how they are saying it. If they are reasonable it then Im sure the landlord would be prepared to listen to them and consider what they are saying. However if they go to the landlord all guns blazing and basically offer an ultimatum of lower the rent or they will walk then I can imagine it would get the landlords back up and they will not get much joy.

convert

Scambuster wrote: »

No he is paying above the market rate. The landlord went to the market and thats what he got.

No, the OP is not paying more than the market rate. According to the PRTB

MARKET RENTS
The maximum rent payable by a tenant may not be greater
than the open market rent, which is defined as the rent that a
willing tenant would give and a willing landlord would take for
vacant possession having regard to the tenancy terms and the
letting values of dwellings of a similar size, type and character
and located in a similar area.

The OP was willing to pay the rent for the room and agreed to that amount, therefore they paid the market rent.

Does it seem fair to the OP that another tenant is paying a lower rent for the same/similar room? No. But the OP has to remember that they were initially happy with that rent (if they weren't they probably wouldn't have taken the room), and is only complaining now because they've discovered that a new tenant is paying a lower rent.

Scambuster

convert wrote: »

The OP was willing to pay the rent for the room and agreed to that amount, therefore they paid the market rent.

Wrong. You can't have two market rates for the same room which we will have to take the ops word on. The market rate is what the latest person pays. If hte market rate was what the OP was paying then why didn't the landlord get that amount when he took it to the market? Now you have it. Good boy.

28064212

Scambuster wrote: »

Wrong. You can't have two market rates for the same room which we will have to take the ops word on. The market rate is what the latest person pays. If hte market rate was what the OP was paying then why didn't the landlord get that amount when he took it to the market? Now you have it. Good boy.

First of all, it's a different room. Even if everything in it is identical, it's a different room. A room being rented has no effect on the market rate of a different room. So the market rate of the OP's room is what the OP and the LL agreed on. The OP can ask for a rent review. The OP cannot demand a rent change. The LL is under no legal constraint to lower the rent.

If the OP wants to survey every tenant in the country and find out if every single one of them would pay less than what he's paying, then he would have a legal right to a rent decrease.

Do you understand that? Good boy :rolleyes:

Scambuster

Wrong. We are agreed it is the same standard of room. For you to change that bit shows you have lost the argument.

28064212

Scambuster wrote: »

Wrong. We are agreed it is the same standard of room. For you to change that bit shows you have lost the argument.

Lol. Just fuckin' lol :pac:

Where exactly have I agreed it is the same standard? And even if it was, how is the fact that the 'standard' is the same relevant? Where in the legislation does it say anything about the 'standard' of other rooms?

My position is exactly the same as it's always been (across all 2 posts of mine in this thread). The OP can ask for a rent review. If he is refused, he can leave. At no stage is the LL legally required to drop the rent

Scambuster

28064212 wrote: »

leave. At no stage is the LL legally required to drop the rent

Yes legally. That is the impoartant point. Legally. Because not one person has mentioned or gives a **** about any legal requirement because there is none.

convert

Scambuster wrote: »

Wrong. You can't have two market rates for the same room which we will have to take the ops word on. The market rate is what the latest person pays. If hte market rate was what the OP was paying then why didn't the landlord get that amount when he took it to the market? Now you have it. Good boy.

Scambuster wrote: »

Yes legally. That is the impoartant point. Legally. Because not one person has mentioned or gives a **** about any legal requirement because there is none.

Can you provide relevant links/documentation to back up your claims, please?


Oh, and I'd advise you to do a little research before assuming all posters on the forum are 'boys'.

28064212

Scambuster wrote: »

Yes legally. That is the impoartant point. Legally. Because not one person has mentioned or gives a **** about any legal requirement because there is none.

So we're in complete agreement? The landlord does not have to drop the rent, but the OP can ask?

ztoical

Scambuster wrote: »

Wrong. We are agreed it is the same standard of room. For you to change that bit shows you have lost the argument.

Even the OP didn't say it was the same standard room, they said it was similar - similar does not mean equal. They might be the same in sqaure footage but there could be a hundred things different that makes it of lesser value then the room the OP is renting. Smaller window, less storgage, located in a nosier part of the house etc etc The OP never said why they don't have a lease so maybe the other guy got a lower rent by agreeing to sign up to a lease, OP won't know unless they go ask.

As half a dozen people have said already they can ask and frankly if they ask nice I can't see why the LL won't lower it unless they point out some reason for the rent difference to the OP but LL has not done anything illegal by renting two different rooms at two different prices.

Tigger

op everyone who says you can't havev the same lower price is likley a landlord

so ignore them

renters market make new offer leave if its not met

Snakeblood

Tigger wrote: »

op everyone who says you can't havev the same lower price is likley a landlord

so ignore them

renters market make new offer leave if its not met

No one is saying that the op can't have it. They're saying that the landlord is within his rights to tell the op that he won't change the rent (although he might drop it) and if so, the op is not being cheated. The op can move too, and no one is saying he can't do that.

Reading comprehension is our friend.

Scambuster

28064212 wrote: »

So we're in complete agreement? The landlord does not have to drop the rent, but the OP can ask?

He can be forced to drop the rent fairly easily.

28064212

Scambuster wrote: »

He can be forced to drop the rent fairly easily.

No, as stated over and over, he can't. It might be a choice between drop the rent or no tenant (or spend a little longer looking for one who is willing to pay), but he cannot be forced to drop the rent

Scambuster

28064212 wrote: »

No, as stated over and over, he can't. It might be a choice between drop the rent or no tenant (or spend a little longer looking for one who is willing to pay), but he cannot be forced to drop the rent

Yes he can. Try and follow.

'drop the rent or I'm gone'

Results.
1. Landlord drops rent.
2. Landlord let's tenant go. Room empty for two weeks before he secures a tenant on lower rent.
3. Loses tenant and keeps room empty, the biggest of drops.

28064212

Scambuster wrote: »

Yes he can. Try and follow.

'drop the rent or I'm gone'

Results.
1. Landlord drops rent.
2. Landlord let's tenant go. Room empty for two weeks before he secures a tenant on lower rent.
3. Loses tenant and keeps room empty, the biggest of drops.

So anyone can get any landlord to drop the rent at any time? No, you've listed some of the possible results. You're missing (at least):

• Landlord refuses, tenant realises it's too much hassle to actually go searching for a new place for cheaper that suits him as well or better than where he currently is (or can't find a better place than he currently is), and doesn't follow through with the threat
• Landlord refuses, tenant leaves, and the Landlord gets someone else in at the same rate