The Crayon Map Thread

Telchak

Don't know how popular an idea this could be, but these type of things seem to pop up a lot in various threads

So the idea is you post your pictures (or Google Maps etc. type stuff) with your fantasy network, changes to current planned lines, or other infrastructure maps you've created.

To start off, here's a map I made (updated version of one I posted before) of the proposed Dublin rail network. It includes (I think) all stops, as opposed to the one government agencies use which are a little light on detail :P

Click for full (: (Still a few mistakes, like a couple of Maynooths xD)

GizAGoOfYerGee

Looks good.

There´s no "hill" in Shankill. Means Old Church.

Chris_5339762

Why is Maynooth on there six times

Typewriter

To be honest I prefer your previous map. The straight angles are much easier to read. That new bendy one looks messy making it difficult to follow.

paulm17781

I actually like that map more, it's easier on the eye or something. If there were more lines being built, straight lines could be better but I like that one a lot.

I think you left Maynooth out.

L1011

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Why is Maynooth on there six times

Its the new Mluas service to run along the line between trains, stops at Carton House, Tesco, the Railway Station, Bond Bridge, the back of the College and across the canal from the ghost estate

Irish and Proud

There may be a couple of mistakes, but it is 'sure as hell' better than the official map!

At least there's proper detail in it...

...and it's produced for free...

...wonder how much the tax payer had the foot for the official version?

donvito99

IMO, Metro West shouldnt go ahead, I don't see the point.

I think its a great map though.

Telchak

Thanks for the feedback (: Sorry about Maynooth, copied the layer and forgot to change the names XD

Still trying to get the ball rolling with this thread, so... gonna see what people's ideas for a far-into-the-future Metro South-West are?

Here's a pretty rough version I done. Any route would probably have to be tunneled until just before the M50. The density of housing in this area of Dublin would also seem to make finding sites for the construction of stops difficult. For this reason, the route I chose has almost all stops in parks (:

Do people think this route is realistic? Would the population catchment be as much as it looks on a map? If you think it's unsuitable, what would your route idea be? (:

(Click for larger)

The Raven.

Telchak, I think your first map is brilliant! Very useful, thank you!

I wonder if you could help me with this problem. Is there any available map of Dublin showing the direction of vehicular traffic, such as one-way streets, no-entry areas, and new traffic lanes etc.? I spent ages the other day using the Google Street View (judging by the cars), in an effort to try and figure out certain routes for driving in Dublin and it was extremely slow, and possibly out of date in some areas.

If there isn't such a map, would it be possible to create one here?

Telchak

The Raven. wrote: »

Telchak, I think your first map is brilliant! Very useful, thank you!

I wonder if you could help me with this problem. Is there any available map of Dublin showing the direction of vehicular traffic, such as one-way streets, no-entry areas, and new traffic lanes etc.? I spent ages the other day using the Google Street View (judging by the cars), in an effort to try and figure out certain routes for driving in Dublin and it was extremely slow, and possibly out of date in some areas.

If there isn't such a map, would it be possible to create one here?

Have you tried OpenStreetMap? It's usually up to date (:

The Raven.

Thanks, Telchak. That is great. I didn't know it existed. Is there still restricted access between College Green and Nassau Street, where only buses are allowed at certain times? That is a pain in the neck for me.

Cool Mo D

I like you're future Metro South map, but I also have been busy crayoning, and think I have a better one. It would be built in stages:

Stage 1: Stephen's green to Terenure, with stops at Leeson Street, Rathmines Village, Harolds Cross and Terenure. Serves the most built-up south west suburbs, and also gives a really good bus interchange along the N11, Rathmines road, and N81 QBCs.

Stage 2A: Terenure to Balally via Rathfarnham and Nutgrove. Would connect Metro South to the Luas Green line. Upgrade of Kilmacud, Stillorgan and Sandyford to Metro platforms, allow Luas and Metro on this stretch, with Stillorgan as the southern metro terminus and Luas running Cherrywood - city.

Stage 2B: Terenure to Tallaght, via Templeogue and the Tallaght bypass. The last part of this route would run on the median of the Tallaght bypass, not unlike what is planned for metro North on the Swords bypass.

Later stage: Tunnel between Parnell street and broadstone, to allow separate Broombridge - Stillorgan (later Finglas) and Swords - Tallaght metro lines in the future.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=110031367556011964879.000492e4dad9c87e2d592&ll=53.370118,-6.258945&spn=0.094637,0.096645&t=h&z=13

Telchak

@CoolMoD: I like this idea of using the Terranure to Parnell stretch of the tunnel for two lines (: I'm assuming your idea would make the Parnell to Broombridge section of BXD unnecessary? I think you probably have too many stops on the the Part 1 and 2B

richardjjd

Thanks for this, its a great map. Would it possible to layer it with current / projected population densities (perhaps gleaned from CSO Electoral Divisions)? - it would add greatly to the discussion about which areas of the city are underserved by train/tram/metro...

Cool Mo D

Telchak wrote: »

@CoolMoD: I like this idea of using the Terranure to Parnell stretch of the tunnel for two lines (: I'm assuming your idea would make the Parnell to Broombridge section of BXD unnecessary? I think you probably have too many stops on the the Part 1 and 2B

I think the alignment and number of stops south of Terenure is really up for grabs as I don't know that area well enough to say where really needs the stops, but I think the idea of a forked pair of lines linking to green Luas and Tallaght is good, as it gives an east-west rapid link as well as north-south.

All the stops north of Terenure are important, as they would give bus interchanges with QBCs, and the possibility, with integrated ticketing, of terminating bus routes short of the city centre, providing shorter, more frequent mainly feeder routes.

I would imagine if a Parnell to Broadstone tunnel was ever built, it would come maybe 10-20 years after BXD, so it wouldn't really remove the need for BXD. There would be a Luas Green running from Broadstone to Cherrywood/Bray, and two metros running Swords - Tallaght and Broombridge/Finglas - Sandyford.

With these improvements, DART underground, 4 tracks Connolly to Malahide, Sligo intercity redirected into Heuston via a new line lining Maynooth and Hazelhatch, and eventually some form of Metro(/Luas/BRT) West Dublin would have an excellent transport infrastructure. And if the services were properly organised, with competent operators, Dublin would have a good transport infrastructure.

sdanseo

Right, this has been muddling in my mind for ages - a design incorporating al the projects commonly mentioned, but that does one other thing - eliminates the shack that is Tara Street, and much more importantly, removes the loopline bridge from our skyline.

Please realise I've done this with the sole intention of removing the loopline - keeping it is a much more realistic and viable option but it's nice to dream :P

So tonight I decided to have a crack, comments welcome folks. See notes below.



Notes/Major new departures:
1. Connolly Station becomes a terminus, with the Northwestern commuter and Luas Red Lines linking here.
2. A new major station constructed on the waste ground at Docklands station which effectively will replace Connolly as the major interchange in the east city.
3. Tara Street station and the loopline bridge gone forever.
4. Provision for a tunnel to connect Pearse and Connolly at a later stage, with the portal being constructed where platform 5-7 were.
5. Maynooth-Bray DART Line reclocated to the new tunnel from Docklands to Pearse. A supr tunnel and cross cavern to be constructed in the docklands area providing 2 additional lines to travel towards Grand Canal Dock where the new tunnel will emerge and rejoin the existing overground line. This level change will be facilitated by the removal of Pearse Station as an overground one. This means all DART services would go to Docklands from the southside, and the removal of a busy station from the city - but I think the addition of one station change to that route would be worth the removal of the bridge.
Alternative: The DART line from the southeast could route via Pearse and join the proposed tunnel from Pearse to Connolly. This tunnel would need to be minimum 4 lines, and this project would require the demolition and rebuilding of Connolly Station.
5. The PPT (Phoenix park tunnel) could be utilised in addition to this plan to link the Zoo, Cabra, etc to the network for the first time.

dowlingm

Rail maps with right angles aren't rail maps folks. Gotta respect minimum curvature.

Bluetonic

Balbriggan DART through the interconnector doesn't feature on this map.

paulm17781

Bluetonic wrote: »

Balbriggan DART through the interconnector doesn't feature on this map.

Line M.

sdanseo

dowlingm wrote: »

Rail maps with right angles aren't rail maps folks. Gotta respect minimum curvature.

Only lines with sharp angles are LUAS

Bluetonic

paulm17781 wrote: »

Line M.

Where is the legend?

The map doesn't indicate Balbriggan to Hazelhatch which is what is being planned, it indicates Balbriggan to Pearse and Malahide to Hazelhatch.

Telchak

Bluetonic wrote: »

Where is the legend?

The map doesn't indicate Balbriggan to Hazelhatch which is what is being planned, it indicates Balbriggan to Pearse and Malahide to Hazelhatch.

I think he thought you meant sdonn's map?
If you mean mine, I was confused with the various different plans, not sure where had been decided on, so I just left it at Malahide for the moment (:

Irish and Proud

Telchak wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback (: Sorry about Maynooth, copied the layer and forgot to change the names XD

Still trying to get the ball rolling with this thread, so... gonna see what people's ideas for a far-into-the-future Metro South-West are?

Here's a pretty rough version I done. Any route would probably have to be tunneled until just before the M50. The density of housing in this area of Dublin would also seem to make finding sites for the construction of stops difficult. For this reason, the route I chose has almost all stops in parks (:

Do people think this route is realistic? Would the population catchment be as much as it looks on a map? If you think it's unsuitable, what would your route idea be? (:

Yeah, I was thinking about Metro South too. I'm glad you avoided areas like Rathgar which I don't think would generate enough usage to justify any stations. The only thing is that I might be inclined to go further South East into the area around Wilton Terrace and Waterloo road where I believe that there's a lot of people working. I'd then swing very sharply to the West and revert to something along the lines of what you're suggesting. I think that the Metro North may have to be postponed, so the planners might think of preparing for Metro South so that everything is ready to go when the economy may have substantially picked up in five to ten years time.

Regards!

D.L.R.

sdonn wrote: »

much more importantly, removes the loopline bridge from our skyline.

That bridge is as much part of Dublin's heritage as the Customs House or anything else it "blocks". Victorian engineering at its finest and worth preserving. An elevated, wrought iron urban railway built in 1891. Fantastic piece of kit.

eia340600

-1

Mc Love

Havent created one myself but Foinse came up with this on a thread on Limerick City Forum

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53322344&postcount=1

The picture shows a red line and blue line, the red line is already in place while the blue line would be considered a new line (as in its not in existence already). There a number of tracks in situ in limerick that arent used to a great extent. The red line could be extended to Shannon airport making it viable for passengers to head straight for the centre of the city.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/88948/41209.jpg

Pete_Cavan

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Yeah, I was thinking about Metro South too. I'm glad you avoided areas like Rathgar which I don't think would generate enough usage to justify any stations. The only thing is that I might be inclined to go further South East into the area around Wilton Terrace and Waterloo road where I believe that there's a lot of people working. I'd then swing very sharply to the West and revert to something along the lines of what you're suggesting.

I really like Cool Mo D's map and I think he is 90% spot on with route, stations etc. but the one thing I would change would be to get rid of the Lesson St stop altogether and have it go straight to Rathmines. Going from St Stephens Green to Lesson St/Waterloo Rd and then over to Rathmines would adds a good bit to the cost and journey times, even if it would be a popular stop. When you look at it on the map there is almost a 90degree angle between the line from SSG to Lesson St and the line from Lesson St to Rathmines which would require a long sweeping curve to allow the metro to maintain a decent speed which would be extremely expensive and unnecessarily so.

In order to keep costs down and improve journey times the route should be as straight and as direct as possible. IMO it would be better for the first stop south of SSG should be Rathmines, but further north than on Cool Mo D's map, on Lower Rathmines Road. This would leave good straight stretches of track between SSG and Rathmine and then Rathmines and Harolds Cross

Irish and Proud wrote: »

I think that the Metro North may have to be postponed, so the planners might think of preparing for Metro South so that everything is ready to go when the economy may have substantially picked up in five to ten years time.

I think(hope) MN will go ahead but either way they are prepared for MS. The SSG stop will have a turnback facility just south of the station, underneath the Green. This is primarily to allow the trains to turn around at SSG without having to switch tracks/tunnels and disrupt other trains will also make it easier to extend the metro. If MS was ever to be built I would image they would start tunnelling from somewhere towards the southern end of the new line where they would have more space to launch TBMs. This would have the advantages of causing less disruption in the city centre as the excavated material would come above ground further south in an area more easily accessed by trucks, and of course the Green itself would not have to be touched. Anyway they would bore northwards towards SSG to meet the existing turnback area, which would become part of the line when MS in complete, avoiding any disruption to SSG station.

By the way, great map Cool Mo D, I especially like the idea of joining MS to Luas Green Line and having the metro run from Stillorgan to Swords, great stuff.

Cool Mo D

Ok, I've finished my ultimate crayon map - with everythong Dublin's transport might need for the foreseeable future.

I've included every proposed project in full, including the Blue Line BRT.

I've also added:
Metro South
Finglas Luas/Metro
Beaumont BRT
4-tracking Northern line (including tunnel section)
Rail link between Maynooth and line to Heuston, (Sligo and Mullingar trains call at Heuston, devoting the Maynooth line to DART, Dunboyne commuter)
The extra bit of 4-track linking the KRP and Interconnector

Not included are stop locations, Navan or Drogheda DART (too far out).

Also, I think that Metro West could reasonably be BRT rather than light rail.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=110031367556011964879.0004934a2c1b819e13135&ll=53.342763,-6.368637&spn=0.23039,0.716858&z=11

Pete_Cavan

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Also, I think that Metro West could reasonably be BRT rather than light rail.

+1

sdanseo

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Rail link between Maynooth and line to Heuston, (Sligo and Mullingar trains call at Heuston, devoting the Maynooth line to DART, Dunboyne commuter)

Do you mean that these trains would call at Heuston after leaving Connolly, or now terminate at Heuston instead? In either case, they can't get to Sligo or Mullingar without using the maynooth line, how can that be avoided??

Zebra3

sdonn wrote: »

Do you mean that these trains would call at Heuston after leaving Connolly, or now terminate at Heuston instead? In either case, they can't get to Sligo or Mullingar without using the maynooth line, how can that be avoided??

The poster is proposing building a link (marked red) from between Maynooth and Leixlip to join up with the line to Heuston on the cityside of Celbridge. Is the length of this link 6km? My rough guess.

This means ICs from Sligo (and Longford commuter services?) can use the quad tracked line to Heuston freeing up Maynooth-Connolly for Maynooth/M3/Navan services.

Great idea imo.

L1011

Are the "high speed" lines on the KRP the middle or outer ones? Building a grade seperated rail junction to get trains on to the middle tracks would be horrendously disruptive; to the outer ones not so much so. Building a flat junction would block paths and be counter productive.

KC61

Fast tracks on Kildare route are the outer lines.

A grade separated junction will have to be built at Inchicore ultimately.

Cool Mo D

KC61 wrote: »

Fast tracks on Kildare route are the outer lines.

A grade separated junction will have to be built at Inchicore ultimately.

You can see Irish Rail's design for the grade-seperated junction here

Aard

To the north and south-east the metro follows Metro North and Luas B1 respectively. To the south-west the metro goes to Saggart, sharing the Luas line briefly. To the north-west the metro doesn't follow Metro West's alignment, rather it would go to Blanchardstown Shopping Centre. The Luas Green line runs from Connolly to Beechwood. The metro will go underground just before Beechwood to interchange with the Luas.

xper

Ah what the hell, I was bored, here's my Metro South ...



The 'loops' are options, not forked lines. I think the UCD option might be stretching things. Could also swing west from St Stephen's Green to hook up at Kimmage but the curve takes you almost out to the canal so you are talking one or two statons max (Portabello/Harold's Cross?)

Tunnel as far out as Rathfarnham, albeit coming above ground at UCD and Milltown on that option, another tunnel between Templeogue and Firhouse.

Several options approaching Tallaght. Southernmost probably gives best spread but not sure if the turns are viable.

Telchak

Had a go myself at a future BXD extension all the way to Metro West



I have also drawn detailed plans on a redevelopment and redesign of Finglas Village so Luas can run through it :P

Aard

Whoever ruined that greenway through Finglas should be shot. It would have been perfect for servicing West Finglas, which (according to Deloitte, iirc) is very poorly served by bus atm, as well as being relatively high density.

Telchak

Aard wrote: »

West Finglas, which (according to Deloitte, iirc) is very poorly served by bus atm, as well as being relatively high density.

The 40s cover Finglas West well and are quite frequent. In fact, the 40 and 40A are being consolidated into one route under Network Direct that will likely result in a reduction of service Besides, I don't think you want the Luas going through an area that has a dump on one side, and a landfill on the other :P (I say this as somebody who spends a significant amount of time there )

coolmangg

I have altered the Interconnector slightly.
In my proposal the interconnector runs as a Dublin Inner City Orbital route (Blue Line). It joins up with the Phoenix Park Tunnel. Trains will run in both directions continuously around the city center. There will be interchanges with all other type of service, luas, Metro, heavy rail etc.

In my proposal also, Sligo / Maynooth / Dunboyne trains will terminate in the Docklands, where they could interchange with the Orbital route. This will free up Conolly services allowing additional Darts to run. There will be an interchange at Ossary Rd between Sligo line and North Line trains also.

The great thing about this option is that most of the rail is existing. Some new stations would need to be built. The Interconnector would be altered and not run as far as Inshicore, however trains would run from Hazzlehatch to Heuston, interchanging with the Orbital route here.

I have also shown where I think the Metro West should extend to meet the northern train line.

I have notionally included the metro south / metro west / Lucan Luas / etc however these are secondary to the concept of the Orbital route. This could be built quickly as half of the route is there today, and it will not interfere with existing lines and will connect the entire system, not only Conolly & Heuston.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=203718849652007389080.00049b7409e80af9d8802&ll=53.348297,-6.28624&spn=0.098169,0.209255&z=13

Please let me know what you think

coolmangg

Sorry.
1 more point on this option.
It will encourage a higher density city center, and rejuvenate run down areas
of the city.
We need to encourage a higher density city center. Commuting from Hazlehatch / Dunboyne, Balbriggan etc should not be encouraged. The Orbital route allows this.

pigtown

I have done a bit of crayoning and attached is my fantasy rail network for Limerick in the year 2040.
It includes 5 heavy rail lines that I would envisage running hourly at peak and every two hours off peak, apart from the Ennis line which would run hourly throughout the day.

A more concise suburban network would run every 15 minutes on the lines between Patrickswell, Annacotty Industrial Estate and Cratloe. To eliminate the need to reverse out of Colbert Station, a new station would be constructed on the existing bus maintenance yard.

Two tram lines would run every 15 minutes North-South and East-West through the city, with the East-West line connecting up both Colbert Station and the new station. The North-South line terminates at an interchange with heavy rail at Father Russell Road but I wonder would it make sense* to continue the tram line through a tunnel as far as the regional hospital as it is the only way I can think of to link the hospital up with the network.

I haven't included stops because a) there are too many and b) they clutter up the map.

So, what say you?

Also, would like to include pictures in post but it's not working. Any tips would be appreciated.

* obviously it wouldn't make sense to build most of this proposal now but a tunnel is a significant undertaking

Aard

Link doesn't work. To attach an image, click on the reply button, then click on "manage attachments" on the reply page.

pigtown

Thanks Aard. Are the attachments working now?

teol

Luas Red Line
Luas BXD
Dart Underground
Cross City - BRT

I think my routing of the Luas BXD would be good. It would take in both St Patrick and Christchurch Cathedral, Dublin Castle, Grafton Street, Temple Bar, DIT-Grangegorman and Smithfield. The trams could travel direct from Broadstone Junction right to the O2 arena, taking in O'Connoll Street.

weehamster

Sorry, but as part of a feasibility study into line E (Broadstone to Dundrum) the section from Christchurch to Broadstone was deem not feasible. So I'm afraid your idea won't work.

teol

weehamster wrote: »

Sorry, but as part of a feasibility study into line E (Broadstone to Dundrum) the section from Christchurch to Broadstone was deem not feasible. So I'm afraid your idea won't work.

Bah! The problem is the O'Donavan Rossa Bridge across the Liffey. The reasons given for the infeasibilty are:

X Protected structure requiring strengthening
X Sub standard vertical curvature on bridge
X Very steep southern approach gradients
X Limited approaches would require road closure or single track

http://www.transport21.ie/Projects/upload/File/Rathfarnham%20Feasibilty%20Study.pdf

TBH I think all of these problems can be mitigated with a bit of effort and thought.

ManAboutCouch

This map I made of Population Change from 2006-2011 might be useful for people who have their crayons out:

http://www.gamma.ie/CSO/Population2006-2011.html

The 2011 figures are preliminary, but they're usually pretty accurate, based on numbers released in 2006 and 2002.

teol

teol wrote: »

Bah! The problem is the O'Donavan Rossa Bridge across the Liffey. The reasons given for the infeasibilty are:

X Protected structure requiring strengthening
X Sub standard vertical curvature on bridge
X Very steep southern approach gradients
X Limited approaches would require road closure or single track

http://www.transport21.ie/Projects/upload/File/Rathfarnham%20Feasibilty%20Study.pdf

TBH I think all of these problems can be mitigated with a bit of effort and thought.

Here is an alternative. Basically the same route, but going the other side of the Civic Offices and crossing the liffey on a new bridge. There would be some encroachment on minor warehousing units but the route pretty much stays away from main traffic arteries.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=200832783753934675596.0004abcbddf5867559269