house trainging a puppy

trickywitch

portgirl123 wrote: »

Easier for owner, doubt getting its nose stuck in pee is easier or best for puppy

Again.. If you hold the puppy's nose OVER their toilet so they can SMELL it - say no and bring them outside immediately. They make the connection quicker. Dogs respond to scents and commands. They also respond to repetition which is where you're coming from I think. My point is only that there is absolutely nothing wrong or cruel with training in either way.

ppink

We have had dogs for a long time and years ago when we knew no better we did the whole scruff and nose in the pee thing.

Now we are hopefully a lot less ignorant and we only use positive reinforcement. We had our pup mostly trained in 1 week and fully trained in 2 weeks. we did have little accidents when she got excited but apart from that she went where we wanted.
We said nothing if she went inside, no scruff, no giving out, no dipping nose in it. When she went outside in "the spot" we made a huge fuss over her.
Now we have a dog who never goes in the house, thinks she a great girl and bounds around the place all excited for going in her patch. It is a far far better scenario than the poor little pups who used ot be terrified from having their noses dumped into it and still not knowing what was going on!

Holding it over it has me stumped I have to say. So puppy 8 weeks old has his nose held over it and thinks to himself what??

Cherry Blossom

OP I wouldn't be encouraging your pup to pee on a towel, it may just teach him that his bed, carpet, soft furnishings, your clothes is a toilet. Please look into crate training there are loads of threads on this forum already on the subject. I'd get the pup onto a decent food before you start though and get rid of the Ceaser its potentially dangerous to your dog.

Search for threads on crate training and dog food, and new puppy advise threads as a starting point. If you do a bit of research first people will find it easier to advise you on finer points than explaining the crate training process and what goes into dog food as these have been discussed to death already. If you have the general gist of what to do, people will be more able to help you on little tweaks if you are having problems down the line.

squeakyduck

My mum got a little king charles for Christmas and I was put in charge of his toilet training (the baby of the family gets all the pissssy jobs no pun intended!! :rolleyes: ) But every half hour he was awake and leaving it longer after several times he got used to holding it and going outside for me!

Now after he did have a few accidents mostly due to over excitement (he can't help himself but get crazy when my mum comes home even if she has only been to the local shops! He'd run around in circles and pee a little!! ) But, now he pees outside like a big (little) dog!

Even now he's like about a year old now (he was born in October) he seems to know that I trained him because he comes over for a nuzzle against my shins after he does his business, wagging his tail looking expectantly at me. He still get the good boy rocky lots of attention and a little treat!

My mum has potty trained all her dogs along the years "with the put his nose in pee" technique, they do learn. It's cruel to hit them but that technique shows them even after a few trys.

andreac

squeakyduck wrote: »

.
My mum has potty trained all her dogs along the years "with the put his nose in pee" technique, they do learn. It's cruel to hit them but that technique shows them even after a few trys.

No it doesnt!! Its cruel and unnecessary to rub a dogs face in its own urine:mad:

Devi

Training a puppy myself at the moment. What I do is basically the same as most people here, regular toilet breaks, patience etc and definitely don’t overfeed, the more input the more output remember.

The only thing I would add is if he does have an accident to clean it up right away, then spray some multipurpose cleaner and leave it for 10 mins before cleaning that up. The reason behind this is to get rid of the smell of pee that gets absorbed into the floor that we wouldn’t smell but a dog would. The smell of pee will trigger the pup to pee in the same spot again.

Wouldn’t declare my pup trained yet out of fear of the mockers but were accident free for the past 2 weeks now, she is 13 weeks old.

ppink

squeakyduck wrote: »

My mum has potty trained all her dogs along the years "with the put his nose in pee" technique, they do learn. It's cruel to hit them but that technique shows them even after a few trys.

It does work.... eventually! and in the process it stresses all concerned. It stresses the puppy, what goes through a puppies mind who has no clue whatsoever about why this is being done to them? Toilet training through fear, we know better than that now.
It must stress the person doing the training too, how could anyone be comfortable with stuffing a dogs nose into or over its pee.
it just makes sense to do it the easy way for dog and owner. In my experience having seen it both ways on multiple dogs the rough way takes a lot longer and worries the animal unnecessarily.

Asphyxia

andreac wrote: »

Are you serious?? Id be seriously changing my vet if he recommended that and probably even consider reporting him for advising cruelty as that what it is.

It teaches a dog nothing, how could it? A dog that pees and later on has its nose stuck in it has absol no clue as to why its getting its nose stuck into its own urine so how does it teach anything:mad:
Poor dogs, thats all i can say. ANyone who does this to their dogs are cruel imo as theres absol no need to do this to any animal.

It takes months to teach a dog to go outside and lots of patience and rewarding.

Would you stick a childs nose into its pee if it wets its pants when its a toddler?? I doubt it, so why do it to a dog.:mad:

It took me about a month for me to train my pup he was a quick learner ,a couple of times dipping his nose in it and he got the idea No offence but I don't think you or postgirl123 should be quoting everyone that has a different opinion to yours and giving out to them over the way they train their pet.

I would never stick a child's nose in their pee that's ridiculous but when I was out of order as a kid I did get a little slap which put me in line and never did me any harm. I would never slap my dog I love my pup he gets the best food, treats and I walk him every day and never leave him out in the rain. You do not know me or the other posters so saying that we are cruel is just silly.

Tranceypoo

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Talking to a fella who has owned dogs all his life, he swears that grabbing the pup by the scruff of the neck and sticking its nose into the pee works best.


Sounds harsh imo.

Seriously, people still do this? In this day and age?!!:mad:

andreac

Pocketfizz wrote: »

It took me about a month for me to train my pup he was a quick learner ,a couple of times dipping his nose in it and he got the idea No offence but I don't think you or postgirl123 should be quoting everyone that has a different opinion to yours and giving out to them over the way they train their pet.

I would never stick a child's nose in their pee that's ridiculous but when I was out of order as a kid I did get a little slap which put me in line and never did me any harm. I would never slap my dog I love my pup he gets the best food, treats and I walk him every day and never leave him out in the rain. You do not know me or the other posters so saying that we are cruel is just silly.

Its not about disagreeing with a different opinion if the opinion is humane.

But rubbing a dogs nose in its own urine isnt humane, its downright cruel.

How can anyone think that rubbing a dogs face in its own dirt is acceptable??
Its disgusting, cruel and outdated and theres no place in society now for any animal to be treated like that.

The only methods we have a problem with is the cruel one, nothing else and why shouldnt we?? Someone needs to stick up for the poor dogs.:(

There are plenty of ways to toilet train a dog without doing this so no, we arent disagreeing with everyone else, only the people who recommend cruel and inhumane methods.

Tranceypoo

Even apart from the fact that it's cruel & ignorant (you are applying human logic to a dog, the dog doesn't think 'oh, I better go outside so they don't make me smell my own wee/poop), it's just pointless and unneccesary, if you feed your pup at regular times, same time every day, you take it out 10/20 mins after eating, 10/20 mins after playing, 10/20 mins after waking up, it will pee/poop. If you catch it peeing or pooping inside WHILE YOU ARE THERE then you pick up the pup and carry it outside, mid pee or poop if need be and set it down outside and let it finish, even if you have to wait 10 mins, when it goes, praise and praise. It's not rocket science, I honestly cannot understand why you would feel the need to stick it's nose in the wee or poop, there is no logic in it, especially if it's already done it and you come into the room and see it and then rub its nose in it. Bizarre. This 'reasoning' of 'well my mum/grandad/neighbour/friend/uncle' has had dogs his/her whole life and they've always done it - doesn't make it right. Dog fighting and cock fighting used to be acceptable pasttimes in centuries gone by, doesn't make it right. FFS people it's 2010, there is no need for such old fashioned, ignorant ways of housetraining your pup/dog. I'm actually shocked that people are advocating this.

Asphyxia

andreac wrote: »

Its not about disagreeing with a different opinion if the opinion is humane.

But rubbing a dogs nose in its own urine isnt humane, its downright cruel.

How can anyone think that rubbing a dogs face in its own dirt is acceptable??
Its disgusting, cruel and outdated and theres no place in society now for any animal to be treated like that.

The only methods we have a problem with is the cruel one, nothing else and why shouldnt we?? Someone needs to stick up for the poor dogs.:(

There are plenty of ways to toilet train a dog without doing this so no, we arent disagreeing with everyone else, only the people who recommend cruel and inhumane methods.

Well my pup is trained now so nothing I can do about it.

I understand where you're coming from but in my opinion it was the easiest way for me and the vet said it was fine (and who would know better than a vet right? :rolleyes: ) but quoting everyone with the same remark that their cruel is unnecessary.

andreac

Pocketfizz wrote: »

Well my pup is trained now so nothing I can do about it.

I understand where you're coming from but in my opinion it was the easiest way for me and the vet said it was fine (and who would know better than a vet right? :rolleyes: ) but quoting everyone with the same remark that their cruel is unnecessary.

Easiest for you:rolleyes:, says it all really, but not the poor puppy who had his nose dipped in its own wee!!

Btw vets arent always right, ive heard vets giving awful advice before so i would never take what a vet says as gospel esp one that advises to rub a dogs nose in its pee.:mad:

Oh its not unnecessary to say its cruel, because if people thought it was actually ok to do this to their dog then there would be a lot of little puppies having this done to them, so no, im not going to stand back and let people think its ok to do this.

DeadlyByDesign

Tranceypoo wrote: »

Even apart from the fact that it's cruel & ignorant (you are applying human logic to a dog, the dog doesn't think 'oh, I better go outside so they don't make me smell my own wee/poop), it's just pointless and unneccesary, if you feed your pup at regular times, same time every day, you take it out 10/20 mins after eating, 10/20 mins after playing, 10/20 mins after waking up, it will pee/poop. If you catch it peeing or pooping inside WHILE YOU ARE THERE then you pick up the pup and carry it outside, mid pee or poop if need be and set it down outside and let it finish, even if you have to wait 10 mins, when it goes, praise and praise. It's not rocket science, I honestly cannot understand why you would feel the need to stick it's nose in the wee or poop, there is no logic in it, especially if it's already done it and you come into the room and see it and then rub its nose in it. Bizarre. This 'reasoning' of 'well my mum/grandad/neighbour/friend/uncle' has had dogs his/her whole life and they've always done it - doesn't make it right. Dog fighting and cock fighting used to be acceptable pasttimes in centuries gone by, doesn't make it right. FFS people it's 2010, there is no need for such old fashioned, ignorant ways of housetraining your pup/dog. I'm actually shocked that people are advocating this.

QFT to all the above. I remember when I was a kid we used to have collie. My da used to do the whole stick his nose iin pee thing. I swear I can still hear the poor thing crying to this day. Please think about it-you are shoving a living breathing, feeling animals nose into excrement. You are hurting an animal and being cruel. The dog feels pain, is upset, scared and confused and humiliated. Just because it is a dog does not mean it does not have these emotions.

To anyone that follows my threads here they know that I have been banging on about getting a great dane. I know when I get one that there will be accidents, but under no circumstances will I ever hurt the animal for something it does not understand.

Tranceypoo

Pocketfizz wrote: »

I understand where you're coming from but in my opinion it was the easiest way for me and the vet said it was fine (and who would know better than a vet right? :rolleyes: ) .

Of course, vets are never wrong....:rolleyes:
I'd be changing my vet fairly lively if she told me this was ok

Asphyxia

trickywitch wrote: »

Again.. If you hold the puppy's nose OVER their toilet so they can SMELL it - say no and bring them outside immediately. They make the connection quicker. Dogs respond to scents and commands. They also respond to repetition which is where you're coming from I think. My point is only that there is absolutely nothing wrong or cruel with training in either way.

This is interesting I would never have thought about it before, I do agree that puppies/dogs make a connection between things. Have you tried this yourself? If so how did it go?

bohochic

andreac wrote: »

Its not about disagreeing with a different opinion if the opinion is humane.

But rubbing a dogs nose in its own urine isnt humane, its downright cruel.

How can anyone think that rubbing a dogs face in its own dirt is acceptable??
Its disgusting, cruel and outdated and theres no place in society now for any animal to be treated like that.

The only methods we have a problem with is the cruel one, nothing else and why shouldnt we?? Someone needs to stick up for the poor dogs.:(

There are plenty of ways to toilet train a dog without doing this so no, we arent disagreeing with everyone else, only the people who recommend cruel and inhumane methods.

It stresses a dog out yes but a baby getting a vaccination also causes stress but you would still give the baby the vaccination because it's benefits the child in the long run. I have trained my two dogs differently, one by dipping his nose in it and the other by the wee pads. The dog responded to the dipping his nose in it better.

ppink

Pocketfizz wrote: »

I understand where you're coming from but in my opinion it was the easiest way for me and the vet said it was fine (and who would know better than a vet right? :rolleyes: ) but quoting everyone with the same remark that their cruel is unnecessary.

well many moons ago people used to think that priests,doctors,lawyers,politicians were all "in the know" and whose opinions were to be revered, now we know that that is not necessarily the case, they are human like the rest of us!

DeadlyByDesign

bohochic wrote: »

I. The dog responded to the dipping his nose in it better.

OF COURSE HE DID!!!HE IS AFRAID OF YOU!

Tranceypoo

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

OF COURSE HE DID!!!HE IS AFRAID OF YOU!

Exactly, training by fear, should have gone out with the ark. Sadly it appears it didn't.

andreac

bohochic wrote: »

It stresses a dog out yes but a baby getting a vaccination also causes stress but you would still give the baby the vaccination because it's benefits the child in the long run. I have trained my two dogs differently, one by dipping his nose in it and the other by the wee pads. The dog responded to the dipping his nose in it better.

You cant even compare the 2!!!

Cant you see there is no need to rub a dogs nose in its wee. The dog doesnt understand why this is being done.
Dogs dont think logically. He doesnt think "Oh, im getting my nose rubbed in my pee, so i better not do that" That is not how it works or how they think.

Rubbing a dogs nose in its wee does not "benefit" him in the long run. In fact it can actually be harmful to the dog. A dogs nose is so sensitive and to have it rubbed in urine that has ammonia in it must be awful for them, dont you get that??

portgirl123

bohochic wrote: »

It stresses a dog out yes but a baby getting a vaccination also causes stress but you would still give the baby the vaccination because it's benefits the child in the long run. I have trained my two dogs differently, one by dipping his nose in it and the other by the wee pads. The dog responded to the dipping his nose in it better.

At least your admitting dipping the pup in its own urine is stressing the dog. Why would you want to stress ther poor thing. Hasnt it enough stress going on at this age without this adding to it, what with been taking from its ma and litter mates.
Yes a baby gets vac but so does a pup this is for health reason and at the moment there in no other option than a needle, while there are more ways to train a pup than this.

Asphyxia

ppink wrote: »

well many moons ago people used to think that priests,doctors,lawyers,politicians were all "in the know" and whose opinions were to be revered, now we know that that is not necessarily the case, they are human like the rest of us!

Okay I agree but I never trained a dog before and I asked my vet because that's generally where people go to get advice on these things it just sucks that it was bad advice , since then I have moved and have been to another vet my pup is healthy as can be so I am not complaining . Many friends and family trained their dogs the same way so yes I did think it was best. I don't want to cause my dog any pain he only ever gets the best from me.

Wolfe Tone

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

OF COURSE HE DID!!!HE IS AFRAID OF YOU!

Afraid of pissing on the floor surely. If you do that when he pees inside, and give him treats etc when he does it outside.... should not take it long to cop on I would say.

DeadlyByDesign

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Afraid of pissing on the floor surely. If you do that when he pees inside, and give him treats etc when he does it outside.... should not take it long to cop on I would say.

No he is afraid of you...the person that is causing him to suffer?....ah here i give up.

ppink

Pocketfizz wrote: »

Okay I agree but I never trained a dog before and I asked my vet because that's generally where people go to get advice on these things it just sucks that it was bad advice , since then I have moved and have been to another vet my pup is healthy as can be so I am not complaining . Many friends and family trained their dogs the same way so yes I did think it was best. I don't want to cause my dog any pain he only ever gets the best from me.

well you cannot help the advice given to you by the vet and i can understand why you would take it too. I have been in the situation in the past where I have taken crazy advice because i did not know better.

many of us did all train our dogs that way but luckily there are forums like this now where we can learn other methods for everything.

Wolfe Tone

My grandfathers dogs were never terrified of him.

Asphyxia

ppink wrote: »

well you cannot help the advice given to you by the vet and i can understand why you would take it too. I have been in the situation in the past where I have taken crazy advice because i did not know better.

many of us did all train our dogs that way but luckily there are forums like this now where we can learn other methods for everything.

Thank you for understanding it is just annoying when people judge you before they know a full story or the intentions involved. Cruel to animals is far from what I am I don't even eat red meat haha!

andreac

Pocketfizz wrote: »

Thank you for understanding it is just annoying when people judge you before they know a full story or the intentions involved. Cruel to animals is far from what I am I don't even eat red meat haha!

Thats fair enough, but its just that method that some people were saying to use, is cruel.

Cherry Blossom

Seriously both pushing the dogs nose in it's toilet and pee pads are not easy methods but lazy methods, you are just confusing the dog. You aren't punishing the dog for peeing in the house by sticking its nose in it, you are just punishing him for peeing. These methods don't work eventually the dog just learns that house is it's territory and to hold it because it doesn't want to soil its territory, this is self taught in spite of this "method" not because of it :rolleyes: The dog can't go outside if it isn't taken out or can't get out and doesn't know to make you aware that it want's out! How long could you hold your toilet buisness if you wernt given access to your toilet, would shoving your face in it help you in any way whatsoever, I don't think so!!

<ETA>My pup is just 5 months old now and is completely house trained it was a long haul but was it was worth every day of it. She no longer needs her crate. She is also a very vocal breed. She was taken out to the place I want her to go frequently on a lead. She was also taken out to the same spot on a lead every time she barked. Now she barks when she wants out, and it has served 2 purposes as she quiet now the rest of the time as well. In the last few weeks I have started taking her off my property to outside the gate as she had started saving it for walks. It seems she doesn't want to mess in her own garden either.