Held prisioner in country by economy

Enter Username

Some advise here please.

A friend worked in construction for the past 10 years. Now has a house that is about 40% in negative equity and has no job. Is living on state benefits while picking up the odd nixer here and there.

He is looking to move to Oz but does not think he will be gone forever. All his family are here so would only be going until the country gets back on its feet.

The problem he has is the house, he cant sell the house as he in neg equity, if he just leaves he will be blacklisted and never get another loan/mortgage if he returns.

He is essentiall being forced to stay here and be a drain on the country while he could be productive in another country. Any suggestions as to whis options are?

Mr. Loverman

Rent out the house while he's gone?

Why can't he continue paying the mortgage from Oz?

baaaa

Rent out the gaff via a letting agency,use rent to pay off mortgage(I know it's not enough but it'll have to do) and go look for work in Oz.

deman

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Rent out the house while he's gone?

Why can't he continue paying the mortgage from Oz?

Is there anything stopping him from renting it out?

Enter Username

he lives in the north east

1. there is a severe over supply of houses, he may not be able to rent it
2. even if he does the mortgage is 1050 € per month - rents are only about 550 around here

Mr. Loverman

Enter Username wrote: »

he lives in the north east

1. there is a severe over supply of houses, he may not be able to rent it
2. even if he does the mortgage is 1050 € per month - rents are only about 550 around here

Why won't he pay the mortgage from Oz?

Enter Username

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Why won't he pay the mortgage from Oz?

There is no reason I suppose, its just a massive cost to have to send back for a house he would not be living in as well as paying accommodation over these also

super_furry

Rent it out and pay the remainder of the mortgage with the money he earns in Australia. Simple.

Mr. Loverman

Enter Username wrote: »

There is no reason I suppose, its just a massive cost to have to send back for a house he would not be living in as well as paying accommodation over these also

If he chooses to stop paying the mortgage even though he is capable of paying it, he deserves everything he gets.

Enter Username

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

If he chooses to stop paying the mortgage even though he is capable of paying it, he deserves everything he gets.

Whoa.. slow down with the aggression. I only asked what his options are. "he deserves everything he gets":rolleyes::rolleyes:

goat2

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

If he chooses to stop paying the mortgage even though he is capable of paying it, he deserves everything he gets.

how many rooms in said house, bedrooms, is the area a populated or popular area, does he have garage onto house,

Enter Username

goat2 wrote: »

how many rooms in said house, bedrooms, is the area a populated or popular area, does he have garage onto house,

3 bed - one of the main commuter towns to Dublin - no garage. There is currently 6 houses for rent in the same estate. Some have been up for months.

oppenheimer1

Enter Username wrote: »

Whoa.. slow down with the aggression. I only asked what his options are. "he deserves everything he gets":rolleyes::rolleyes:

Its true though. He can't just walk away from his obligations just because he overpaid for a house and not expect for there to be consequences. I don't know much about banking in Oz, but would he not need a letter of introduction from an Irish bank if he ever wanted credit over there?

It appears to me that the best option for your mate would be a renegotiation of the terms of the mortgage with the bank and to rent it out at the market rate. If this isn't enough to meet the mortgage he should top it up with cash earned abroad.

Enter Username

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Its true though. He can't just walk away from his obligations just because he overpaid for a house and not expect for there to be consequences. I don't know much about banking in Oz, but would he not need a letter of introduction from an Irish bank if he ever wanted credit over there?

It appears to me that the best option for your mate would be a renegotiation of the terms of the mortgage with the bank and to rent it out at the market rate. If this isn't enough to meet the mortgage he should top it up with cash earned abroad.

I agree that is probably the best/only option. He also would not need to have a credit report over there as he would only be there for 5 years max so no mortgage or anything.

Enter Username

Thanks for all the replies (except for Mr Loverman ye big child)

Nehaxak

I wouldn't worry about credit ratings and all that lark, there's plenty of ways around it if he did want to come back and had a bad rating or whatever.
Tell the bank he can no longer afford to pay the mortgage, hand the keys back and go off to Oz and live life while he's still young and can do it - he'll probably end up staying there anyway once he's settled in with a job.

Mr. Loverman

Enter Username wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies (except for Mr Loverman ye big child)

Eh, what?

johnnyskeleton

He could retrain to do something else and start up a business perhaps.

jimmycrackcorm

I don't know how this thread is titled add being held a prisoner of the economy. If anything the guy is a prisoner of his own belief that construction workers such as labourers once believed they deserved to earn €1000 per week.

Nehaxak

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't know how this thread is titled add being held a prisoner of the economy. If anything the guy is a prisoner of his own belief that construction workers such as labourers once believed they deserved to earn €1000 per week.

Yes, because it's only those who "worked hard" by spending most of their teenage years and younger adult life bumming around in college, sponging off the state coffers + having Daddy pay the rest of the college fee's - who are entitled to a decent wage after they eventually get a degree of one sort or another - Prof., of Anthropological research studies into the effect of consuming Heinz rather than Batchelors Baked Beans in middle class society - perhaps, top profession that, well worth all the years of study...

Nevermind the guy carrying 2 x 8 stone bags of cement on his shoulders up a ladder all day.

Every trade requires skill and even a lowly labourer deserved his cut of the profits being made in the boom times - besides that fact, it's also worth noting that you wouldn't find many a plasterer for example who would take some pissy weak student in to mix his plaster, or a builder content to put up with same mixing his mortar.
Most labourers go on to specialise in one or other of the construction trades, whether that be brick/block laying, plasterer, plumber, tiler, chippy or whatever. They were paid well because they done a good job and supported the tradesmen to do their job well not because they grew up thinking they deserved it "just because". If they were crap, they were dumped and replaced and only the most experienced and skilled labourers got the highest pay, they didn't all come up with €200+ a day. It was an ok wage for a hard days work.

rainyrun

he should rearrange his mortgage to interest only.. this will reduce the actual monthly payment and any potential rent could cover it.. then arrange to have i rented and pay any difference from austraila.
This means he will not damage his financial rep here in Ireland and has somewhere to come back too. Its not impossible to do that and much better then handing the keys back to the bank..

the_dark_side

Nehaxak wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about credit ratings and all that lark, there's plenty of ways around it if he did want to come back and had a bad rating or whatever.
Tell the bank he can no longer afford to pay the mortgage, hand the keys back and go off to Oz and live life while he's still young and can do it - he'll probably end up staying there anyway once he's settled in with a job.

+1

credit rating will soon mean buck all in this failed state.... Ireland Inc.'s credit rating has suffered severly since 2008, so I wouldn't worry too much about personal credit rating from Ireland, I think alot of people will have 'economic refugee' status as they move abroad to places such as Australia in search of a new life...

Ste.phen

Er, I thought Australia closed off the visas for construction trades? Why is everyone assuming the OPs friend can just go there and live there legally?

kelle

I agree with your friend trying to change to interest only repayments for a while, and try and rent out his house at a slightly lower price than the other houses to let in the area so he is guaranteed tenants.

Mr.Loverman, it's easy to be so smug because you were not caught out by the property boom - believe me, anybody could have been and you wouldn't be making such remarks if you were.

Mr. Loverman

kelle wrote: »

Mr.Loverman, it's easy to be so smug because you were not caught out by the property boom - believe me, anybody could have been and you wouldn't be making such remarks if you were.

I'm not being smug, I think you've misunderstood the OPs post. He is choosing to not pay back his mortgage when he is working in Australia.

Who do you think will have to clean up his mess when he's gone? The tax payer.

He's not a victim, we are.

kelle

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I'm not being smug, I think you've misunderstood the OPs post. He is choosing to not pay back his mortgage when he is working in Australia.

Who do you think will have to clean up his mess when he's gone? The tax payer.

He's not a victim, we are.

I totally understand.

But his action is that of a desperate man taking desperate measures. He never guessed he would be in a situation where his income would drop to zero.

I can't help but feel pity for him, and it sounds like he wants to do what's right at the end of the day.

viclemronny

First of all, his income is not zero. He is getting state benefits.
Second of all, if he thought he would have a job for 25 years guaranteed out of a housing boom, then he is, to put it politely, short-sighted and while he does not deserve to be punished for stupidity, should not be allowed to lump the cost onto others.

However, it does not seem like he is trying to do that as he is looking for options on moving to oz, not options on escaping debt.

His best bet imho is to rent the house out and try and pay the mortgage from oz. Defaulting completely on the remainder is not an option. For numerous reasons, not least of which, he does not have to if he gets a job in Australia.

OP - tell him to make sure he has work before heading over, or at least that there is a reasonable amounts of work in his field. He doesn't want to get over there and find he has to come back with nothing but a 2 grand bill after a few months. Get this information form an embassy, one of the places doing visas, an australian government website, etc. DO NOT get this information from friends/neighbours/etc as they have a habit of being in-accurate as does all anecdotal evidence.

mikemac

OP, does your friend have a trade?

Or was he a labourer in construction?

Tigger

Two points
1: cement bags weigh about four stone they havent weighed eight since about 92

2: many educated people worked on construction sites to pay for thier education education or college dosnt make you a mammys boy

Nehaxak wrote: »

Yes, because it's only those who "worked hard" by spending most of their teenage years and younger adult life bumming around in college, sponging off the state coffers + having Daddy pay the rest of the college fee's - who are entitled to a decent wage after they eventually get a degree of one sort or another - Prof., of Anthropological research studies into the effect of consuming Heinz rather than Batchelors Baked Beans in middle class society - perhaps, top profession that, well worth all the years of study...

Nevermind the guy carrying 2 x 8 stone bags of cement on his shoulders up a ladder all day.

Every trade requires skill and even a lowly labourer deserved his cut of the profits being made in the boom times - besides that fact, it's also worth noting that you wouldn't find many a plasterer for example who would take some pissy weak student in to mix his plaster, or a builder content to put up with same mixing his mortar.
Most labourers go on to specialise in one or other of the construction trades, whether that be brick/block laying, plasterer, plumber, tiler, chippy or whatever. They were paid well because they done a good job and supported the tradesmen to do their job well not because they grew up thinking they deserved it "just because". If they were crap, they were dumped and replaced and only the most experienced and skilled labourers got the highest pay, they didn't all come up with €200+ a day. It was an ok wage for a hard days work.

maninasia

A few things came out of my reading of this

1. The obsession with credit ratings, very American... who cares about credit, it's about how much money you can earn and saving these days.
Do you think the guy is going to get a loan anyway? How?

2. Saying he doesn't have options. He certainly does have an option of defaulting and running off..he can do it from the UK more easily. That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do of course.

3. Thinking he'll be away a short-time, why would he come back after getting set up there, come back to what and when exactly?

4. Personal responsibility still lacking, he can pay off the mortgage easily enough once working in Australia, anybody can work that out, just wants the easy way out.

mikemac

A bag of cement you buy weighs 25kg

Who uses stones anymore

Tigger

I said about four stone they used to be 50 kg which was about eight stone


25 kilograms = 3.93682611 stone

mikemac

Ah I know, wasn't aimed at you, I know it's about the same

Anyway, I'm dragging this thread offtopic

Tigger

Well the point I was making is twofold; that it's often exaggerated how hard laborours laboured and how easy students had it to become professional people I laboured all the way back to 92 and the pay relative to the pay for say dunnes became further and further apart. I rember some ponce at a party telling me how greAt his job was till I pointed out my job that I fitted around college paid more that the job I'd get ( and he had) when I finished. But I knew that the building thing was overpaid. At one stage we were charging 450 a day to be unqualified carpenters.

dan_d

The original question - OP I think your friend's best option is to rent the house out for the best price he can get and top it up every month from OZ.

It's not ideal but it would appear to be the best of a bad lot in terms of options.

As for everything else, it's not relevant. He's looking for options to keep paying his mortgage. He's not looking to be bailed out by anyone.

Sponge Bob

He would not be advised to do a runner because they will find him and sue him in Oz. If he has a tracker mortgage then he must be careful not to accept a deal to go interest only UNLESS he can return cleanly to the repayment at the old tracker rate. Some banks will allow a full payment holiday up to 6 months with no penalty applied for availing of it. Renting the house may materially breach the terms of his mortgage contract if he does not inform the bank of it.

If out of the country, working, he will not benefit from any 'nama for the riff raff' types of writedowns that may happen on a limited scale in future.

Enter Username

feelingstressed wrote: »

OP, does your friend have a trade?

Or was he a labourer in construction?

He is a qualified bricky...

To everyone who said he is expecting to simply walk away from the mortgage he is most definitely not. He is simply looking for advise on his options.

To the poster who asked why he would come back. All his family are from the area so he cannot see himself staying for good, just until the country is out of the mess.

I also understand the point rasied about labourers getting paid the colossol sums they were, At the end of the day they are the unskilled jobs that literally anyone who is physically able can do. Just because they jobs is hard doesnt automatically mean they are worth the c1000 euro per week

A Dub in Glasgo

Unless the definition of nixer has changed since my days in Dublin, he is already doing the taxpayer out of money.

thebaldsoprano

dan_d wrote: »

The original question - OP I think your friend's best option is to rent the house out for the best price he can get and top it up every month from OZ.

It's not ideal but it would appear to be the best of a bad lot in terms of options.

As for everything else, it's not relevant. He's looking for options to keep paying his mortgage. He's not looking to be bailed out by anyone.

A friend of mine working in construction took out an insane mortgage at the height of the boom and is doing exactly this, except from Abu Dhabi and Dubai. Not ideal, but he's getting by alright and a few of his friends / ex-colleagues have since joined him. He intends paying off the mortgage as well.

goat2

Enter Username wrote: »

3 bed - one of the main commuter towns to Dublin - no garage. There is currently 6 houses for rent in the same estate. Some have been up for months.

could you have a word with the bank and sort the loan out over a longer period thus bringing down the amount you have to have upfront each month, say eight hundred, because you will not be getting anymore from 3 people per month, i do know someone who stayed in a house outside dublin and commuted in to work half hour each day, they paid 60 euro per week and it was three bedroomed also and they were ensuite, keep in mind that they also have to pay to commute which bring it up a fair bit for your tenant, you will have to have words with lender and bring it down to have it attractive to tennants,

---

i bet those other six houses are looking for a big rental also, there is the reason they are not full

old_aussie

Best option is to take the bad times with the good times and stay in Ireland.

Zambia

Old aussie is sort of right.

It takes some cash to get here and there is no shortage of brickies. In a slowdown they will be hit bad and a slowdown is coming in the building trade.

Your mate will have a huge capital outlay to get here. They will have 12 Months on a WHV and if they are lucky another 12 for regional work.

The option of staying for for 5 years is not there unless they are sponsored as a Brickie. Never mind the fact Oz is not a cheap place to live its a first world country with comparable prices.

The route for friend is looking at is really quite expensive. I repay a modest mortgage in Ireland and its not easy. The letting agents charge and the possibilty of a few months of non rental are constant.

From the sounds of it he is just pissed of that he cant walk away from the mess he has found himself in. A fact I cant totally understand.

Also you cannot be chased for irish debt here in Oz Legally. However be prepared for the vultures to come sniffing around any address you ever had in Ireland.

old_aussie

If you can make it through the hard times(and that's not going to be easy), it's going to be so much better in the good times because you have not only helped yourself but more importantly you will have helped Ireland through the hard times.

Amhran Nua

Zambia232 wrote: »

Also you cannot be chased for irish debt here in Oz Legally. However be prepared for the vultures to come sniffing around any address you ever had in Ireland.

If he just mails the keys back though, that qualifies as a default, which means a court case. If he doesn't show up for that he's likely to be facing a prison sentence if he ever returns.

DjBryn

use the government imposed 1 years grace from the banks slippery hands and tryout the oz adventure ,40%NE will more than likely take a decade to drop

DjBryn

Amhran Nua wrote: »

If he just mails the keys back though, that qualifies as a default, which means a court case. If he doesn't show up for that he's likely to be facing a prison sentence if he ever returns.

that is of course unless he has borrowed millions or billions ,then all he has to do is change the house into the wifes name and declare himself bankrupt;)

Enter Username

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Unless the definition of nixer has changed since my days in Dublin, he is already doing the taxpayer out of money.

two or three nixers @ <100,€ three or four times a month eh... its hardly capital fraud now is it :rolleyes:

Plus you can legally work up to 20 hours and still claim your dole so I dont think he is doing much wrong

Enter Username

hypothetically speaking,

If his house cost 350,000 and is now worth 250,000 and he is now 100,000 in NE. If he decides to sell his house for the current market value of 250,000 what can he do about the 100,000 shortfall.

Does he still have the term of the mortgage e.g 35 years to pay this off, i.e 100,000 over 35 years instead of 350,000 over 35 years?

Head The Wall

Enter Username wrote: »

hypothetically speaking,

If his house cost 350,000 and is now worth 250,000 and he is now 100,000 in NE. If he decides to sell his house for the current market value of 250,000 what can he do about the 100,000 shortfall.

Does he still have the term of the mortgage e.g 35 years to pay this off, i.e 100,000 over 35 years instead of 350,000 over 35 years?

He can only sell the house if he has the remainder to cover the mortgage. This is unless he can come to some arrangement with the bank.

Zambia

Prior to leaving I heard stories of people simply handing the keys back to the bank and nothing more being done.

Is this not the case ?

Head The Wall

They can just hand in the keys and the bank will sell it for what they can get. Legally they are still liable for the difference in sale price and what they owe on the mortgage, it may be waiting for them on return, it's the banks call really.