Moss returns to Vikes reports NFL.com

ReacherCreature

The consolation of this trade means that we'll have:

The Pats now have 2 picks in each of the first 4 rounds of next years draft.

That's good I guess, if used right, could be huge.

Quote courtesy of Mr. Guappa over in the banter thread.

kryogen

I dont understand the timing of this, we are looking really light now

bad day

Hulk Hands

Call me biased, but how good does the Vikings offence suddenly look?

In a few weeks, the Vikings will have Moss and Rice* at WR, both very dangerous threats. Harvin can now move back to the slot where he was a pro bowler last season instead of the pressure of being the #1 reciever. Then there's excellent Shiancoe is at TE. There can now only be 6/7 on Defence in the box (rather than 8 before) as they will have to cover Rice/Moss deep, often double coverage. This will leave Adrian Peterson with more space than he has ever gotten. He is going to be the real benefactor of this move. He also has a very competent OL in front. And of course there's Favre.... Suddenly, from a shambles, the Vikings offence is looking like the best in the league


*Provided Sidney gets back trouble free

ReacherCreature

Favre is key for that offense - Moss is the addition. And Favre has been shít this season imo.

Syferus

The Vikings - on paper at least - have made one of the trades of the decade. They've got a hall of fame reciever who should still have a couple of years in the tank for a third round pick.

If they keep to their word, Moss won't be getting an immediate contract extension so that should means he'll be as motivated as he's ever been, even removed from the fact the Vikings are in a win-now mode which given Moss' increasing age is just what he'd want personally.

Even if it isn't a roaring sucess Moss will have at the very least the same trade value next year as they got him for.

raven136

Jesus i know the Pats hate the Jets but this is taking the biscuit

mikemac

What have the Jets go to do with this?

Dohnny Jepp

Moss will be playing them again

Tristram

If I was a Pats fan I wouldn't be overly concerned.

davyjose

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Call me biased, but how good does the Vikings offence suddenly look?

In a few weeks, the Vikings will have Moss and Rice* at WR, both very dangerous threats. Harvin can now move back to the slot where he was a pro bowler last season instead of the pressure of being the #1 reciever. Then there's excellent Shiancoe is at TE. There can now only be 6/7 on Defence in the box (rather than 8 before) as they will have to cover Rice/Moss deep, often double coverage. This will leave Adrian Peterson with more space than he has ever gotten. He is going to be the real benefactor of this move. He also has a very competent OL in front. And of course there's Favre.... Suddenly, from a shambles, the Vikings offence is looking like the best in the league


*Provided Sidney gets back trouble free

Rice is still on crutches, and they've four BIG games coming up. If they come out 3-4 then IMO, they can build up huge momentum and may well have the best O in the league. if they come out 2-5 (quite possible), they will have a struggle even making the playoffs.

Pherekydes

Should I start Moss this w/e in my fantasy league? I guess so.

Go Brett...

Hulk Hands

davyjose wrote: »

Rice is still on crutches, and they've four BIG games coming up. If they come out 3-4 then IMO, they can build up huge momentum and may well have the best O in the league. if they come out 2-5 (quite possible), they will have a struggle even making the playoffs.

This is where i'm differing to a lot of people. If they come out 2-5 out of the next 4 games (probably the most likely outcome at this stage), then the Vikings have a run of extremely winnable games until the end of the season. The only one that looks dangerous is the Packers at home, but even accounting for a loss in that, it still leaves a 10-6 record which should be enough to make the playoffs. Hopefully by the time they get there, everybody should be injury free and on the same page

Hazys

http://www.csnne.com/10/06/10/Brown-Moss-ignored-Belichick-others-on-f/v1_landing_patriots.html?blockID=325983&feedID=3946

Moss is a douchbag, plain and simple...as a Pats fan i'm happy he is gone now.



I went through all the stages of grief during this trade:

1. Denial: When i first read about the trade on PFT, i thought it was BS report
   and the most random rumour.
2. Anger: I cursed the Pats and Bill, how are they so stupid (Please forgive me Pats and Bill, it was in a moment of anger, you know i love ye guys)
3. Bargaining: 3rd round pick is a smokescreen we are at least getting a 2nd & 3rd, more than likely a 1st
4. Depression: The season is ruined, i dont care anymore...when does the Heinken Cup, NBA or NHL start?
5. Acceptence: Bill and Pats did what they had to, cut out the cancer out of the locker room, no one player is bigger than the team

(Although I could still be in the Anger phase...)

Max Power1

My first reaction to this was WTF. That still hasnt subsided, the pats have effectively called time on their season. And for what? A measly R3 pick in 2011? Nothing - thats what the pick is worth. May well have let him go for free. Welcome to double coverage on welker, no running game, and missing the playoffs NE! What a ridiculous trade.

Stev_o

God it still seems a stupid move in terms of the start of the season hell the Pats now have zero proven deep threats. Even when Moss isnt being thrown the ball he's attracting double coverage which leads to openings for Hernadez and Woodheads dual threat. Without him defences will have a extra man to target the situation in front of them. Putting a lot of pressure on Tate to become the go to guy for deep passes and honestly we'v yet to see any indication that he ll get much success there.

eagle eye

Hazys wrote: »

http://www.csnne.com/10/06/10/Brown-Moss-ignored-Belichick-others-on-f/v1_landing_patriots.html?blockID=325983&feedID=3946

Moss is a douchbag, plain and simple...as a Pats fan i'm happy he is gone now.

:rolleyes:

Hazys

eagle eye wrote: »

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes::rolleyes::P:confused::(:P:pac::cool::rolleyes:;):o:):D:rolleyes:

spiralism

eagle eye wrote: »

That doesn't wash at all though. All this means is that their best corner now comes in and takes Welker because they don't have to worry as much about the deep threat.

Right now the Patriots WR corp is as follows in order of who gets the starts.

Welker
Tate - Second year who hasn't shown much in the receiving game to date, excellent kick returner.
Edelman - Second year. Similar to Welker but has been injury prone since he got here.
Price - Rookie. There was a lot of talk about him but he looked really poor in preseason and hasn't been on the field yet in the regular season.
Slater - Special teams ace, previously listed as a safety.

Great point, was going to make that myself. With moss there, regardless of how he was performing, the likes of aso, revis and bailey were having to respect him and cover him at all times when up against him, leaving welker on the no.2 corner, hence huge numbers from welker... dont really see where the slack will be picked up here once welker is getting shut down by the top CBs of the league... the "pick your poison" element of the pats passing game was what made them so potent and now it seems to have gone with moss

davyjose

Hazys wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::P:confused::(:P:pac::cool::rolleyes:;):o:):D:rolleyes:

In fairness, it was a reactionary post. If I'd have called Moss a douchebag a few weeks ago, I'd have been called a troll.

The Pats took a gamble on a hot-headed player, the gamble more than paid off, they wouldn't offer him a contract, so he dug his heels in. Where's the surprise? The biggest surprise for me is how willingly the Pats cut the chord tbh.

ArmCandyBaby

Stev_o wrote: »

God it still seems a stupid move in terms of the start of the season hell the Pats now have zero proven deep threats. Even when Moss isnt being thrown the ball he's attracting double coverage which leads to openings for Hernadez and Woodheads dual threat. Without him defences will have a extra man to target the situation in front of them. Putting a lot of pressure on Tate to become the go to guy for deep passes and honestly we'v yet to see any indication that he ll get much success there.

There have been a few post in this thread along these lines and I don't understand them at all. Do you really think that BB didn't consider these factors when he was considering the trade. Can you honestly say that you have a better understanding of the cost/benefit of the whole senario and have given it more thought than BB and his mulit-million dollar team of coaches to warrant calling this trade stupid.

It should just be taken for granted that this was the right move given the current circumstances, and see why BB would rather trade him now rather than later. In my mind these include.

• It's not 2007 any more. RM is older and the AFC East has drafted specifically to remove Moss as a deep threat.
• With the new collective bargining coming next year, there is no guarantee of a compensatory pick.
• If Moss continues to play like he is this season, he'll have no value at the end of the season anyway.
• Deep threats attracting double coverage could be over valued & TE's are the way to go. (Look at the Chargers offense this year for proof of that. VJ was arguably the best deep threat in the league last year and without him Rivers hasn't even stuttered. Looks like AJ Smith knew what he was doing after all).
• Patriots are clearly rebuilding and in ~3 years when the rest of the team is coming into its prime, Moss will be on the way out.
• You can't expect more than 2/3 good years from Moss, and next year could be a mess so there's no chance of getting more than a 3rd.
• Don't forget there is a reason why he went for a 4th round pick before and the majority of teams didn't want him. He could be an insufferable ass when he doesn't like his situation.

Basically anyone who is trying to weight up the pros and cons of this trade and is coming out with a different anwser than BB is wrong! He knows more than you do and he's not one to be run by his emotions. I can understand longing the glory days of '07 but that's not going to happen again.

ArmCandyBaby

spiralism wrote: »

Great point, was going to make that myself. With moss there, regardless of how he was performing, the likes of aso, revis and bailey were having to respect him and cover him at all times when up against him, leaving welker on the no.2 corner, hence huge numbers from welker... dont really see where the slack will be picked up here once welker is getting shut down by the top CBs of the league... the "pick your poison" element of the pats passing game was what made them so potent and now it seems to have gone with moss

CBs are less effective against posession receivers because the plays develop much quicker and there is less time for the CB to react and catch up. There are a lot of good slot receivers in the league that'll never work outsider the numbers because they'd get dominated by even average CBs.

davyjose

ArmCandyBaby wrote: »

[*] Deep threats attracting double coverage could be over valued & TE's are the way to go. .

I think you're missing the point here -- that double coverage you speak of, frees the rest of the offense considerably. Even a deep threat receiving 0 catches in a game has likely had an impact.

Gates is a freak (as, obviously, Moss is). I think you'll find there aren't many TE's that can play to his level, so it's a different scenario. They're playing to their strengths because Gates is so good. You can't just slot any old TE in and say "play like the Chargers!". If the Bolts lost Gates, they'd limp along, just as I think NE will. Great players are much more effective than a good system.

ArmCandyBaby

Fair enough about Gates but the same is true about Welker in a way. Maybe Moss still is one of the best in the league but I really don't think he will be in a year or two and a player like Moss plays right at the strengths of the AFC East defences - Revis and Davis have shown that they can deal with him in man coverage with a little help over the top. Stick Tate in instead and there won't be much of a difference in coverage. Whereas looks at the success Hernandez has had. A 4th round rookie TE should be the last person to make a contribution beyond special teams but that just shows the strength of creating mismatches.

eagle eye

Hazys wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::P:confused::(:P:pac::cool::rolleyes:;):o:):D:rolleyes:

Here is Bill Belicheck's presser today.

He says that he never spoker to Randy on the plane, that those reports are a complete fabrication and that he never had an incident with Randy. He was quite clear and almost aggressive and annoyed when they pressed him further about it.

So you listen to all the mediots and believe what you want. I'll take the word of the head coach.

Randy has a presser later on too in case you are interested.

Edit you can see it here. http://www.patriots.com/mediacenter/index.cfm?ac

davyjose

ArmCandyBaby wrote: »

Fair enough about Gates but the same is true about Welker in a way. Maybe Moss still is one of the best in the league but I really don't think he will be in a year or two and a player like Moss plays right at the strengths of the AFC East defences - Revis and Davis have shown that they can deal with him in man coverage with a little help over the top. Stick Tate in instead and there won't be much of a difference in coverage. Whereas looks at the success Hernandez has had. A 4th round rookie TE should be the last person to make a contribution beyond special teams but that just shows the strength of creating mismatches.

Welker was always the go-to guy, even in 2007 he had more receptions than Moss. But without Moss, Welker's ability to gain yards after the catch is going to be diminished.
I don't really believe that you think Tate can be a replacement for Moss, without New england's O being greatly affected, so I'll just gloss over that.
They have a good Offense, even without Moss, just like they had in '08 when Brady was out, but they'll be hit massively by this. No doubt about it.

eagle eye

This is my last comment on this.

I've been a Patriots fan for a long, long time. I can only think of one player leaving before that felt worse than this and that was Curtis Martin.

ReacherCreature

I'm not caring about all these 'bitchy' after posts in the media. Just want to throw my last 2 cents in and say thanks to Randy for the three years of fantastic service. You sir, are a legend.

Syferus

Well let's be fair - Belichick isn't one for drama so even if he and Moss had a Karate Kid-esque full-motion fight I'd imagine he'd be more likely to say Moss' (hypothetical!) black eye was caused by the the plane door than tell his 'friends' in the media the inside scoop.

davyjose

Syferus wrote: »

Well let's be fair - Belichick isn't one for drama so even if he and Moss had a Karate Kid-esque full-motion fight I'd imagine he'd be more likely to say Moss' (hypothetical!) black eye was caused by the the plane door than tell his 'friends' in the media the inside scoop.

What? You lost me at "kid-esque".

Syferus

davyjose wrote: »

What? You lost me at "kid-esque".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Karate_Kid

Everyone has heard of Karate Kid.. I thought.. !