More Tolls on the M50 coming soon

jock101

roboto wrote: »

this is a joke, there is an insufficent infrastructure in this country and the small amount of motorways available is tolled like there is no tommorow... .another example for "we charge you for no proper service" (just like the non-existent health service)

All because of Gombeen TD's and there Greedy Banker confederates!

There will be no one left here paying any tax here yet the way thing are going, just the old and the welfare classes!

fatboypee

Hang on a min though, nobody here is making the point that our taxes have paid for these roads already. I PAID, why should I pay again ? Road has not changed, monies will not go to road upkeep, we'll still be driving on ****e N roads full of potholes / half surfaces.

I don't really care too much about tolls though as I live down-country but that said (and I know the country needs cash), I find it amazing that they think tolls will resolve any deficit as it is hitting commercial vehicles hardest, screwing operating costs further, pushing more toward the breadline, effectively curtailing production, transportation of goods and ultimately causing overall stunting of any shoots of growth / expansion in or around the capital / major hubs ?

Makes no sense whatsoever.

As for taxing fuel ? As if we don't pay enough already? Any proper government / non Banana republic one would recognise they were spending YOUR money and give you something in return for your taxes: good roads, good hospitals, good schools.....

Captain Commie

PauloMN wrote: »

Public transport is not a viable alternative for most, unless it's a short journey involving one route and on a route that has frequent service.

tell me about it, i have had 1 job that was accessible via public transport, and even that was a 20 min walk to a 15 min bus to a 5 min bus, yet in car takes 5 mins

Poly

Who is really pushing this?


http://www.shane-ross.ie/archives/347/m50-directors-unmasked/

"Nor does the annual report breathe a word about director Raymond Potterton. A little digging reveals that Potterton was a business partner of Loman Dempsey, brother of none other than cabinet minister Noel Dempsey.
You want to know more?"

Run_to_da_hills

fatboypee wrote: »

Hang on a min though, nobody here is making the point that our taxes have paid for these roads already. I PAID, why should I pay again ?..

Didn't the EU not fund a large portion of these motorways?. It it is anyone behind collecting tolls for these roads I would guess that the EU is behind it

They must get their pound of flesh out of the deal.

fatboypee

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Didn't the EU not fund a large portion of these motorways?. It it is anyone behind collecting tolls for these roads I would guess that the EU is behind it

They must get their pound of flesh out of the deal.

Phase 1 of M50 funded by NRA: http://www.transport21.ie/MEDIA/Press_Releases/Cullen_announces_contract_for_M50_Phase_1_Upgrade.html

PPP for other parts, still part-funded NRA. Point being, nothing NEW, this is completed and funded works of which we have paid our part. To tax infrastructure as a money-making exercise to fund that development is, in part understandable as, if done honestly and with good intention, the taxation should persist only to pay for such infrastructure.

But to tax an existing infrastructure with no finite end point, for revenue generation other than being related to the upkeep of the infrastructure / other pending infrastructures is cynical, bordering autocratic.

These are OUR assets, the building of which we have already paid for in taxes. I simply dont buy the "We Need Dosh so we will tax you AGAIN" B.S as justifiable in any shape or form. As expressed, a real government would contritely recognise that these are OUR assets, its OUR money and vow to give value for money / added benefit in payment for extra taxation, not just bang another tax on this that and the other to justify a shortfall not of our making in an "eh? this is how it is now" argument.

Fergus

If they want more money, just increase the income tax or fuel tax already.

These schemes are just tax again, but we are also being forced to pay 20 million a year to extra private collection agencies.

I for one will gladly avoid all M50 tolls when going around Dublin. The southern routes are significantly longer distance than going through the suburbs anyway.

Viper_JB

fatboypee wrote: »

Phase 1 of M50 funded by NRA: http://www.transport21.ie/MEDIA/Press_Releases/Cullen_announces_contract_for_M50_Phase_1_Upgrade.html

PPP for other parts, still part-funded NRA. Point being, nothing NEW, this is completed and funded works of which we have paid our part. To tax infrastructure as a money-making exercise to fund that development is, in part understandable as, if done honestly and with good intention, the taxation should persist only to pay for such infrastructure.

But to tax an existing infrastructure with no finite end point, for revenue generation other than being related to the upkeep of the infrastructure / other pending infrastructures is cynical, bordering autocratic.

These are OUR assets, the building of which we have already paid for in taxes. I simply dont buy the "We Need Dosh so we will tax you AGAIN" B.S as justifiable in any shape or form. As expressed, a real government would contritely recognise that these are OUR assets, its OUR money and vow to give value for money / added benefit in payment for extra taxation, not just bang another tax on this that and the other to justify a shortfall not of our making in an "eh? this is how it is now" argument.

There's that + there's the issue that for the money which was spent on anglo over the last while we'd have one of the best road network and health systems in the world. Instead we got nothing...just a larger hole in every single one of our pockets and NOTHING....absolutly not one thing to show for it - well besides all the negative effects that we have to live with these days. It's a crying shame that a country with as much potential as we have has to deal with this, we essentially have the village idiot doubling as the village head.

fatboypee

Fergus wrote: »

If they want more money, just increase the income tax or fuel tax already.

These schemes are just tax again, but we are also being forced to pay 20 million a year to extra private collection agencies.

I for one will gladly avoid all M50 tolls when going around Dublin. The southern routes are significantly longer distance than going through the suburbs anyway.

Tolling is the BR Governments inane attempt to target certain groups and lamely justify the taxation as targeting the "users of a facility, pay as you go 'n all that", inept at best really due to the likely payers of these taxes are the very (few enough) tax payers that are managing to keep going in spite of the already outrageous demands placed upon them by fiscal mis-management implemented so far displayed by the B.R Government.

smash

zuroph wrote: »

damned if they do, and damned if they don't, eh Steve?! A zonal system is a much better idea than the current all or nothing charge. Unless ur a southsider of course

I travel Bray-Sandyford twice a day. With a toll on the M11 and then again on the M50 it will cost my 15min journey €3 if it was 75c a toll. So that's another approx €60 a month out of my post tax income... €780 a year!

I don't have public transport to get me to work. And if there was, it would take well over an hour each direction.

Guess I'll do what everyone else my direction will do... block up Enniskerry and Stepaside every morning and evening.

fatboypee

Viper_JB wrote: »

There's that + there's the issue that for the money which was spent on anglo over the last while we'd have one of the best road network and health systems in the world. Instead we got nothing...just a larger hole in every single one of our pockets and NOTHING....absolutly not one thing to show for it - well besides all the negative effects that we have to live with these days. It's a crying shame that a country with as much potential as we have has to deal with this, we essentially have the village idiot doubling as the village head.

There is Nothing without consequence and we get the government we deserve after all.
As I've posted in other places, we're all still too comfortable to revolt right now but that is what SHOULD happen as, after all, take a quick look at what we have as a nation now after NAMA and all the rest of it. Please tick off the items on the list below (no particular order):

1. Fully functioning, affordable Health Service.
2. Good quality, amenable public transport infrastructure.
3. Quality National & Local Road Network
4. Fully operable, modern train System
5. Quality, affordable and available primary, Secondary & Tertiary education systems
6. Even functioning mental and social care systems
7. Relative, open, accountable taxation system

Need I go on ? theres lots more... I work alot in Norway where the average working week is sub 35 hrs, you lose your job, you're paid by the government at 2/3rds of your salary for up to two years to find another job. Healthcare is second to none, road infrastrucures take alot of volume, all flow perfectly, trains, on time mostly, trams everywhere.. yes its hightaxes but they get ALOT for their taxes and more importantly the KNOW what they get for their taxes.

jayok77

It looks like they are putting in the infrastructure already. Did anyone notice the new overhead structure (similar to barrier-free toll on northside of M50) just before the Firhouse exit heading Northbound? There are lines painted on the road below it, similar to speed measurements lines for a camera.

Well it's either an Automatic Number Plate Recognition System ANPRS for speeding or else for said new Tolls.

chiefbrody1974

The definition of irony. A fianna fail TD who imposes this system and once (or if ever used) claims it back in expences!!! these ***** are realy pushing us against the grain. I cant claim my tolls back, as im sure most on this forum cannot either. I hope they get vandalised, every gantry!!

I wouldnt mind, this is a typical fianna fail feeler, it will come in and they're testing the water for public reaction to the big taxes on the way!! they always do it, feed a Fianna fail media friendly outlet some of the upcoming budget and see how it floats.

roboto

jayok77 wrote: »

It looks like they are putting in the infrastructure already. Did anyone notice the new overhead structure (similar to barrier-free toll on northside of M50) just before the Firhouse exit heading Northbound? There are lines painted on the road below it, similar to speed measurements lines for a camera.

Well it's either an Automatic Number Plate Recognition System ANPRS for speeding or else for said new Tolls.

same thing on the M1 after the port tunnel. was wondering what these overhead structures are for...

cjt156

Those are speed cameras, you can put your tinfoil hat away. Barrier-free tolls don't require road markings....or DO they....?

maidhc

fatboypee wrote: »

Need I go on ? theres lots more... I work alot in Norway where the average working week is sub 35 hrs, you lose your job, you're paid by the government at 2/3rds of your salary for up to two years to find another job. Healthcare is second to none, road infrastrucures take alot of volume, all flow perfectly, trains, on time mostly, trams everywhere.. yes its hightaxes but they get ALOT for their taxes and more importantly the KNOW what they get for their taxes.

They also have oil instead of zombie banks.

shedweller

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

How much are these extra tolls expected to generate? And then how much does a litre of fuel need to increase by to raise the same amount?

I'd like to know the answer to that question too.

innovated wrote: »

......and seeing as you use less fuel on a motorway they have to recoup the money lost on tax somehow.

If the re-zoning of M50 tolls go ahead, a lot of the current toll payers may actually end up paying less, unless of course they are going the whole length of the M50. I know that I will pay less (well hope so), travelling from Firhouse to Ballymun exit each day (work at airport and refuse to go up M1)

Just how does a car use less fuel at 120kph? The extra speed is a tax in itself!
Also, a lot of people will pay less but some will have to start paying. cough...southsiders....cough

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Of course the fairest method would be to simply tax fuel in place of this and motor tax.

I second that. Then EVERYBODY would pay a tiny amount more and there would be no need for tolls at all! Imagine that! But this is Ireland and we'll get fleeced instead.
I'm continually amazed how other countries can get things so right and we get it so wrong. I know other countries have high taxes but they get something for their taxes; public transport, good roads etc.
We just get taxed.:mad:

fatboypee

maidhc wrote: »

They also have oil instead of zombie banks.

True. But once, we had foreign investment and, err, what was it ? Oh yes, a knowledge economy.

The point with regard to Norwegian oil is what their government did with the proceeds of it. They put it into a national Pension fund currently estimated at a cool €640 billion++ and did not invest it in crazy ways.

It's not so much about what (as a country) you have, or don't have is it. It's more about what your government does with what you have for the betterment of the people they are supposed to serve.

Sadly, in our case, it appears a halfwit with an abacus and a piece of paper could have done better. They sure could'nt have done much worse.

Clanket

http://www.tv3.ie/article.php?article_id=45775&locID=1.2.&pagename=news

Has been on the news all day.

What the hell do our taxes (including road tax) pay for if not roads?

People been on the radio saying most cars are avoiding the new Tara motorway because there's two tolls on it costing a fortune. So the towns and roads that were bypassed by spending these billions building the motorways are as congested as ever.

They're planning on putting more tolls on the M50. I live in the Firhouse area and the M50 is a local road for us. If they toll it no matter where you enter it, I reckon most cars will just avoid it where possible, putting more congestion on the local non tolled roads. So we'll end up with a 3 lane motorway that no-body uses and heavily congested local roads frustrating everyone.

Braindead is too good a word for these idiots.

krudler

They're planning on putting more tolls on the M50. I live in the Firhouse area and the M50 is a local road for us. If they toll it no matter where you enter it, I reckon most cars will just avoid it where possible, putting more congestion on the local non tolled roads. So we'll end up with a 3 lane motorway that no-body uses and heavily congested local roads frustrating everyone.

but on the plus side, empty motorway for those willing to pay, same happened in Limerick with the tunnel, nobody uses the bloody thing so its empty all the time, what it was meant to bypass is busier than ever and the tunnell itself is traffic free.

enda1

There's no such thing as "road tax"...

knird evol

enda1 wrote: »

There's no such thing as "road tax"...

Not yet anyway.

For the moment to keep us going we have Motor Tax, VRT, Road Tolls, taxes and duties on Petrol and Diesal and shooting fish in the barrel speed traps on motorways.

KungPao

enda1 wrote: »

There's no such thing as "road tax"...

But you need to have Motor Tax if you want to use your veh-hi-kil on the roads.

Sanjuro

For some reason, I read the title as More Trolls on the way.

I'm disappointed on various levels.

RobbieTheRobber

Are road tolls not common across europe, in which case welcome to europe ireland.

maggy_thatcher

shedweller wrote: »

Just how does a car use less fuel at 120kph? The extra speed is a tax in itself!

1. The speed limit on the M50 is (mostly) 100km/h, not 120km/h -- which makes a big difference on fuel economy.
2. On the M50, traffic is (generally) continually flowing, which is substantially more fuel efficient than the stop/start when going along the back-roads.

shedweller wrote: »

Also, a lot of people will pay less but some will have to start paying. cough...southsiders....cough

or northsiders who don't cross to the southside?

_feedback_

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Are road tolls not common across europe, in which case welcome to europe ireland.

We are lucky in comparison to the French. I was with a friend who drove in France a few years ago. One of the tolls he paid was something like €11 :eek:

knird evol

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Are road tolls not common across europe, in which case welcome to europe ireland.

If France went and jumped in the river Liffey would you jump in after them?

RobbieTheRobber

knird evol wrote: »

If France went and jumped in the river Liffey would you jump in after them?

I dont know is france attractive?

more importantly is france a female?


If the answer to those questions is yes then i would certainly jump in the liffey after an attractive female who is now wet!

RobbieTheRobber

Sanjuro wrote: »

For some reason, I read the title as More Trolls on the way.

I'm disappointed on various levels.

Every time i go back to the ah index now all i can see is your new title