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Who control Obama? I let you guess...
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In general no, many Irish people have served in the UK miltiary for instance both of their own choosing and due to not being accepted into the Irish military. There was even a thread in AH recently on the latter topic, some people of course called him unpatriotic but the majority were supportive of his desire.
False comparison.
You are comparing people who make the professional decision to join a foriegn army either because they are misguided youths who want to fire big guns and fight in wars that they cannot do in the Irish army or for economic reasons; nothing to do with loyalty.
What would be a much more accurate and fair description would be Northern Irish Protestants joining the British army out of LOYALTY to the queen or NI Catholics joining the Irish army out of LOYALTY to the Irish state.
Furthermore, Emanuel was a VOLUNTEER not a professional solider. To volunteer for any cause, never mind a war effort indicates clearly an affinity and loyalty to that particular cause.In this specific context, Emanuel volunteered as a civilian for short term service maintaining US military hardware in Israel which was given to them by the US following the launch of Scud missiles from Iraq into Israel. Given his upbringing and his ability to speak Hebrew this made him an idea candidate for service in this area and since Sar-El only requires a few weeks service it probably looked like the best choice rather than joining the US military. Given all of this I simply reject the notion that the weeks served indicate his primary loyalty remained with Israel.
You make it sound like the 5'5 ballet dancer rust proofing brakes for the IDF brought down Saddam
I believe you are an intelligent person which is exactly why I don't believe you actually believe any of what you just posted. You can't argue against the fact that to volunteer for an armed service clearly indicates a definite loyalty to that army.Why would I accept it when even Arab-Americans don't accept it? Also note, I would have no problem if his Chief Of Staff had been of Arab descent although I'm sure those who accuse Obama of being a Muslim would have had a field day. Let's be honest here, the only appointment anyone would have been truly happy with is a white, non-denominational appointee. Any other race, religion or creed would have gotten up someone's back.
Gizmo, this is from your very own link:One day and one announcement later, the tide turned.
With the naming of Congressman Rahm Emanuel as Obama's White House Chief of Staff, for some, not all, the euphoria turned to despair. The emails and calls to my office were both troubled and troubling -- because much of the reaction was based on misinformation and because of what the entire episode revealed about the larger political dynamics involved.Well he's doing the same thing as some of the posters here so no. Personally I think it's refreshing to see someone in his position take that stance.
Now this is getting silly. You are refusing to accept that Zogby was either wrong or intentionally deceptive. It must be one or the other. I have told you from the start which one it is.0 -
While I'll admit the joining of the British Army due to failed admission to the Irish Army wasn't the best comparison I think the other one was still valid, but not to the point you're trying to make. You see, I still don't believe it was out of loyalty that he joined Sar-El. I mean if he was THAT loyal to Israel why not join the IDF as a whole, why only sign up for a few weeks as a civilian volunteer maintaining US weaponry in a country which wasn't even directly involved in the war itself? Surely he knew having such a temporary stay on his CV wouldn't endear himself to either those who view Israel in a negative light or those who are rabidly pro-Israel? It simply doesn't add up as far as I'm concerned.Brown Bomber wrote: »False comparison.
You are comparing people who make the professional decision to join a foriegn army either because they are misguided youths who want to fire big guns and fight in wars that they cannot do in the Irish army or for economic reasons; nothing to do with loyalty.
Hah, I don't mean it like that!Brown Bomber wrote: »You make it sound like the 5'5 ballet dancer rust proofing brakes for the IDF brought down Saddam The reason I brought up the missile batteries was because they were given to the Israelis by the US hence a US citizen going over to maintain them who happened to speak fluent Hebrew makes sense in this context.
If he joined up to the IDF and served for a term then I wouldn't hesitate to agree with you in the slightest. I just find this particularly instance to not be enough to condemn the guy.Brown Bomber wrote: »I believe you are an intelligent person which is exactly why I don't believe you actually believe any of what you just posted. You can't argue against the fact that to volunteer for an armed service clearly indicates a definite loyalty to that army.
As for the Zogby issue, I'm not disagreeing with the fact that some Arab-Americans were suspicious of the appointment, I simply wish it wasn't such an issue. I mean, had he not been involved with Sar-El, would you or they still have had an issue with him? I can't speak for you of course but generally speaking I'd say there would still have been many suspicious of him because of his family and/or background. That to be me nothing more than racial stereotyping and would be just as bad if Americans reacted in a similar way had a Muslim advisor been appointed. Why I warm to Zogby's reaction is that a man in his position as head of such an organisation was able to see through this and attempt to allay people's fears sufficiently.0 -
While I'll admit the joining of the British Army due to failed admission to the Irish Army wasn't the best comparison I think the other one was still valid, but not to the point you're trying to make. You see, I still don't believe it was out of loyalty that he joined Sar-El. I mean if he was THAT loyal to Israel why not join the IDF as a whole, why only sign up for a few weeks as a civilian volunteer maintaining US weaponry in a country which wasn't even directly involved in the war itself? Surely he knew having such a temporary stay on his CV wouldn't endear himself to either those who view Israel in a negative light or those who are rabidly pro-Israel? It simply doesn't add up as far as I'm concerned.
Hah, I don't mean it like that! The reason I brought up the missile batteries was because they were given to the Israelis by the US hence a US citizen going over to maintain them who happened to speak fluent Hebrew makes sense in this context.
If he joined up to the IDF and served for a term then I wouldn't hesitate to agree with you in the slightest. I just find this particularly instance to not be enough to condemn the guy.
As for the Zogby issue, I'm not disagreeing with the fact that some Arab-Americans were suspicious of the appointment, I simply wish it wasn't such an issue. I mean, had he not been involved with Sar-El, would you or they still have had an issue with him? I can't speak for you of course but generally speaking I'd say there would still have been many suspicious of him because of his family and/or background. That to be me nothing more than racial stereotyping and would be just as bad if Americans reacted in a similar way had a Muslim advisor been appointed. Why I warm to Zogby's reaction is that a man in his position as head of such an organisation was able to see through this and attempt to allay people's fears sufficiently.
Fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree amicably I hope.
But watch this and remember Zogby's words. Bare in mind that it is not feasible that Zogby was simply mistaken as he is the first person to make this claim regarding Emanuel. His intent must surely be to mislead his Arab audience.
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But of course, it's my favourite kind.Brown Bomber wrote: »Fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree amicably I hope.
On a final note, where was he misleading his Arab audience? I don't think anyone would disagree that Emanuel is pro-Israel, in fact Zogby even said it himself, "He is a strong supporter of Israel." but he also said this:Brown Bomber wrote: »But watch this and remember Zogby's words. Bare in mind that it is not feasible that Zogby was simply mistaken as he is the first person to make this claim regarding Emanuel. His intent must surely be to mislead his Arab audience.Rahm Emanuel is a brilliant strategist and a practitioner of hard-ball politics who, in campaigns, his time in the Clinton White House and more recently in Congress, has demonstrated that he knows how to get a job done. Because there will be critical legislation the President-elect will need to move through Congress, from an economic recovery package and health care reform to a comprehensive approach to alternative energy, Obama has tapped Emanuel for his proven political skills. It is that simple.
And that is the primary reasoning behind his appointment in my eyes. Regarding the original comment way back from Obama saying the Jewish support is why he's there, well that's playing on Emanuel's pro-Israel outlook at work. Now, if that outlook were to lead to him saying "We need to attack Iran for the good of Israel", then I'd have a problem but it hasn't happened and I don't believe it will happen.
On a lighter note, Emanuel's resignation was covered humorously on the latest Daily Show which mirrored many of the above comments made. It also, however, dealt with the manner in which he carries out his work which I'm sure will elicit a smile should you watch it. 0 -
But of course, it's my favourite kind.
On a final note, where was he misleading his Arab audience? I don't think anyone would disagree that Emanuel is pro-Israel, in fact Zogby even said it himself, "He is a strong supporter of Israel." but he also said this:
I can't play the sound now cos my wifes asleep beside me bere but in the video Emanuel confirms he volunteered for the Israeli army when brought up by the anchor therefore Zogby's article in suggesting he was contributing to the US war effort was disinformation and damage control, there isn't any two ways about it.0 -
Well again that relates back to both the fact of the issue, he joined Sar-El, not the IDF and what I said above, that he joined during a war in which Israel was not involved as a civilian maintaining US equipment in the country. Also as I said before I think Zogby was looking more to reassure people which, given the wording used to describe the number of calls he received after Emanuel's appointment, he probably needed to do.Brown Bomber wrote: »I can't play the sound now cos my wifes asleep beside me bere but in the video Emanuel confirms he volunteered for the Israeli army when brought up by the anchor therefore Zogby's article in suggesting he was contributing to the US war effort was disinformation and damage control, there isn't any two ways about it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_yA8J-oGQkAdvertisement