The return of Declan Ganley

Scofflaw

Declan Ganley, bête noire of the Yes side in Lisbon 1 and failed European Parliament candidate, returns himself to public life with a somewhat threadbare excuse and an exclusive article in the Journal which seems to waver in focus between the usual cracks at the EU and a more national angle:

http://home.thejournal.ie/readme/the-road-to-perdition/

Long on rhetoric, short on solutions, populist as ever, and signing off with a flourish that reminds us he's a religiously-minded social conservative - will he make a full-scale return to public life in national politics as supporters hope, or will he be hurling from the ditch?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Tender Hoop

i think he is a cock

ei.sdraob

oh NOes not that guy again

why oh why is Irish politics so dismal?!

duckysauce

hes like a piece of dog **** that you step in no matter how you clean your shoes on the grass the **** is still there

baaaa

Didn't he predict a loss of sovereignty and of our corporate tax rate?
It would really piss me off if he did.

galwayrush

baaaa wrote: »

Didn't he predict a loss of sovereignty and of our corporate tax rate?
It would really piss me off if he did.

He did, one extremely smug...I told you so... coming up.

Scofflaw

galwayrush wrote: »

He did, one extremely smug...I told you so... coming up.

He did indeed predict that - indeed, you could say he was the cause of the taxation guarantee in Lisbon 2.

Unfortunately:

a) he didn't predict it as a result of us having to survive on an ECB transfusion, but as a result of Lisbon granting powers which it didn't

b) it hasn't actually happened.

Not that that would prevent him saying "I told you so" or a some people believing it - those people are always with us, and they have votes.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Lockstep

He canvassed me during the 2009 elections, very dodgy character.

IrishTonyO

Scofflaw wrote: »

Declan Ganley, bête noire of the Yes side in Lisbon 1 and failed European Parliament candidate, returns himself to public life with a somewhat threadbare excuse and an exclusive article in the Journal which seems to waver in focus between the usual cracks at the EU and a more national angle:

http://home.thejournal.ie/readme/the-road-to-perdition/

Long on rhetoric, short on solutions, populist as ever, and signing off with a flourish that reminds us he's a religiously-minded social conservative - will he make a full-scale return to public life in national politics as supporters hope, or will he be hurling from the ditch?

cordially,
Scofflaw

and you consider the 'threadbare excuse' to be what? He did say a year ago that he would comment in a year and he has. You may think it is populist but he has been more accurate than our government.
And finishing an article with 'God save Ireland' reminds you in what way that he is a 'religiously minded social conservative'. I would say that comment more reflects on your and your bias than on him

Happy Monday

Scofflaw wrote: »

a) he didn't predict it as a result of us having to survive on an ECB transfusion, but as a result of Lisbon granting powers which it didn't

We are now surviving on an ECB transfusion - care to comment on those politicans who created those conditions first and maybe Declan Ganley after?

Scofflaw

Happy Monday wrote: »

We are now surviving on an ECB transfusion - care to comment on those politicans who created those conditions first and maybe Declan Ganley after?

Not really, since most of the rest of the forum offers that opportunity, whereas this thread is about Declan Ganley.

and you consider the 'threadbare excuse' to be what? He did say a year ago that he would comment in a year and he has. You may think it is populist but he has been more accurate than our government.

Someone who claims "bad things will happen" for one set of reasons is not vindicated if they happen for an entirely different set of reasons. And "coming back to examine the Yes side's claims" is a laughably threadbare excuse for relaunching himself in public life, if that's what he's doing. Not, to be fair, that he requires any excuse, of course - but that just makes it sillier.

And finishing an article with 'God save Ireland' reminds you in what way that he is a 'religiously minded social conservative'. I would say that comment more reflects on your and your bias than on him

Perhaps, but on the other hand he is a religiously minded social conservative - something he made quite obvious through various interviews during the Euro elections. I'm not sure why you object to that characterisation, unless you feel it was simply a pose for the benefit of a certain class of voter.

cordially,
Scofflaw

evercloserunion

I hope this doesn't happen. Irish politics is in a dismal enough state without this chancer.

PeterIanStaker

I hope he stays in his bunker, stroking Bruce Arnold. The charade that is Irish politics is still better off without Declan Del-Boy. We've already enough shady characters promising the sun moon,stars and imaginary jobs as it is.

dsmythy

You want him to publish an entire manifesto on LiveJournal or something? Wait and see before commenting is the best thing here.

Orion

I particularly love that the link is "/the-road-to-perdition/" and the article is named "The road from perdition". Pretty much sums up the attention to detail of Ganley.

acer1000

kickoutthejams wrote: »

He canvassed me during the 2009 elections, very dodgy character.

That comment makes me laugh. What about all the other more dodgy characters that probably canvassed you?

Whatever one may say, think or subscribe to the guy, he sure makes nearly all our elected officials look like wimps in comparison. He’s one politician who at least speaks to us like we are intelligent adults, not like children being told what they want to hear.

He has conviction, intelligence and is very articulate. There are some elected officials that have the last 2 qualities, but I can’t think of any who seem to have any conviction with regard to what they are about. Okay, Eamon Ryan seems to have when he speaks about his green issues.

His sceptical stance on EU issues certainly now seem to have a lot of credibility, considering our current mess. I think we would be in a better position had we listened to more of what he had to say.

Somebody said he got it right on an issue for the wrong reason, that’s still a hell of a lot better than our mainstream politicians who obviously got it so wrong, yet having more reasons to get it right, in terms of the resources at their disposal. Shame on them.

Let’s hear more from this man. I hope he still thinks we’re worth it.

Scofflaw

dsmythy wrote: »

You want him to publish an entire manifesto on LiveJournal or something? Wait and see before commenting is the best thing here.

We tried that last time with the Libertas manifesto for the Euro elections, and they definitely hadn't published them on the 1st of June, 4 days before the vote. I'm not sure if they ever did publish a manifesto - the only summary of their position I've seen is on Wikipedia, scarily enough.

So "wait and see" is likely to prove rather drawn out and fruitless in this case, at least on Ganley's previous track record. Meanwhile, the absence of anything that resembles a positive program allows for even more populist latitude than is enjoyed by Eamon Gilmore. That serves well enough if his plan is to be part of the commentariat, but not really if he's going to go into politics - although admittedly charisma alone apparently suffices for some people.

amused,
Scofflaw

evercloserunion

dsmythy wrote: »

You want him to publish an entire manifesto on LiveJournal or something? Wait and see before commenting is the best thing here.

We waited for two years and got nothing.

IrishTonyO

Scofflaw wrote: »

We tried that last time with the Libertas manifesto for the Euro elections, and they definitely hadn't published them on the 1st of June, 4 days before the vote. I'm not sure if they ever did publish a manifesto - the only summary of their position I've seen is on Wikipedia, scarily enough.

So "wait and see" is likely to prove rather drawn out and fruitless in this case, at least on Ganley's previous track record. Meanwhile, the absence of anything that resembles a positive program allows for even more populist latitude than is enjoyed by Eamon Gilmore. That serves well enough if his plan is to be part of the commentariat, but not really if he's going to go into politics - although admittedly charisma alone apparently suffices for some people.

amused,
Scofflaw

You seem to have a set opinion on the subject without having any details or facts. Judgements, or opinions publicly expressed, based on nothing more than a personal belief is not a wise position to take. Most people like to know at least some facts and details before they make a decision or publicly state an opinion.
I think you are condemning someone / something before you have even heard their position.

Scofflaw

IrishTonyO wrote: »

You seem to have a set opinion on the subject without having any details or facts. Judgements, or opinions publicly expressed, based on nothing more than a personal belief is not a wise position to take. Most people like to know at least some facts and details before they make a decision or publicly state an opinion.
I think you are condemning someone / something before you have even heard their position.

I'm confused now - is this not the same Declan Ganley that fought Lisbon 1, then the Euro elections, then had a cameo role in Lisbon 2? The guy who people laud for being a conviction politician, albeit one who apparently does his best to hide his convictions?

Is it therefore outrageous of me to suggest that I do have some passing familiarity with the man and his attitudes, built up over more or less two years of discussion of issues he and his band of merry men were really quite involved in? Or are you saying that he has, in fact, so completely changed the very convictions he's lauded for that I could have no familiarity at all with what is, in fact, a completely new and presumably improved Declan Ganley?

I think you'll need to pull the other one, because that one has fallen off...

now deeply amused,
Scofflaw

Poly

As a small business owner I feel he makes some very good points.





“We need a government that focuses all of its energies not on creating jobs, but on helping those who do. Instead of raising corporate taxation, we should be cutting it further. Instead of learning the false lesson that we did not have enough regulations, we should realise that the truth was that we had bad regulators.”


I know people will say he has a vested interested, but I agree with him on this. Not sure how we could get away with cutting CT further, but there is a lot of scope for the cutting of stealth business taxes i.e. quango bullsh1t charges.


“If anybody thinks that swamping our private sector with more red tape is the way out of this crisis, well. They are just wrong. It has never worked. Anywhere. Ever.”


What will the quangos do when there are no more businesses left to harass? regulate each other maybe?


Lets face it, we're not going to fire these clowns so what if we just set the quangos on each other and let businesses get on with doing business and generating tax returns?

IrishTonyO

Scofflaw wrote: »

I'm confused now - is this not the same Declan Ganley that fought Lisbon 1, then the Euro elections, then had a cameo role in Lisbon 2? The guy who people laud for being a conviction politician, albeit one who apparently does his best to hide his convictions?

Is it therefore outrageous of me to suggest that I do have some passing familiarity with the man and his attitudes, built up over more or less two years of discussion of issues he and his band of merry men were really quite involved in? Or are you saying that he has, in fact, so completely changed the very convictions he's lauded for that I could have no familiarity at all with what is, in fact, a completely new and presumably improved Declan Ganley?

I think you'll need to pull the other one, because that one has fallen off...

now deeply amused,
Scofflaw

So you judge someone on things in the past before you have even heard their position in the present? Do you still hold the same positions and beliefs you did years ago and nothing has changed?. Or because you voted for Fianna Fail once does that mean you are a life long supporter or does your position change with the times and with information relevant to the present?

Amhran Nua

acer1000 wrote: »

His sceptical stance on EU issues certainly now seem to have a lot of credibility, considering our current mess.

Yes, because the ECB isn't lending us the money we need to keep the lights on...

...

Scofflaw

IrishTonyO wrote: »

So you judge someone on things in the past before you have even heard their position in the present? Do you still hold the same positions and beliefs you did years ago and nothing has changed?. Or because you voted for Fianna Fail once does that mean you are a life long supporter or does your position change with the times and with information relevant to the present?

We're only talking about a period of a year here, and about a man who is supposed to have "passionately articulated" "deeply held convictions" that put our "populist politicians" to shame.

Perhaps Declan is now a secularist socialist, but everything written in that article suggests he's exactly the same man as before - and if that's the case, why then, thank you, but I do know about him, and I see absolutely no reason to withhold judgement on the incredibly spurious basis that he hasn't issued a manifesto this time either.

Or do you believe - and please take that article into account - that he's a deeply changed man? That he has abandoned all those "deeply held convictions" in the space of a year?

And if so, is it not the case that you think very much less of him than I do?

cordially,
Scofflaw

IrishTonyO

Scofflaw wrote: »

Perhaps Declan is now a secularist socialist, but everything written in that article suggests he's exactly the same man as before - and if that's the case, why then, thank you, but I do know about him, and I see absolutely no reason to withhold judgement on the incredibly spurious basis that he hasn't issued a manifesto this time either.

Yes it is shocking that he doesn't have a manifesto on his first day back into the public eye.

Scofflaw wrote: »

Or do you believe - and please take that article into account - that he's a deeply changed man? That he has abandoned all those "deeply held convictions" in the space of a year?

I don't think he has made his position yet and therefore I would withhold my judgement until he does. I am one of those strange people, where politics are concerned, I like to make informed decisions

Scofflaw wrote: »

And if so, is it not the case that you think very much less of him than I do?

I was not a fan of him during the Lisbon debates, but that will not 'cloud' my judgement of him now until I have details and facts

Ben Hadad

Will Declan be heavily funded this time around from unknown sources, which may or may not have an affect on his political convictions?

Or is this the real Declan? If it is the real Declan can we trust him?

Has Declan anything actaully to say. I mean who the hell is he really?

K-9

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Yes it is shocking that he doesn't have a manifesto on his first day back into the public eye.


I don't think he has made his position yet and therefore I would withhold my judgement until he does. I am one of those strange people, where politics are concerned, I like to make informed decisions



I was not a fan of him during the Lisbon debates, but that will not 'cloud' my judgement of him now until I have details and facts

I think what Scofflaw and a few others, who did take a big interest in him during Lisbon and the Euros are saying is:

Don't hold your breath waiting on that manifesto. We didn't get one for Libertas over a period of a year or so and his choice of candidates throughout Europe was, shall we say, colourful!

Scofflaw

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Yes it is shocking that he doesn't have a manifesto on his first day back into the public eye.

No, it was shocking that he still hadn't issued a manifesto a week before the Euro elections he was standing in. At the moment, I don't even know that he should be issuing a manifesto, because he hasn't said what he plans on doing. Possibly all he's doing is commenting, which he hardly needs a manifesto for.

IrishTonyO wrote: »

I don't think he has made his position yet and therefore I would withhold my judgement until he does. I am one of those strange people, where politics are concerned, I like to make informed decisions

You may never be able to make one in this case, then.

IrishTonyO wrote: »

I was not a fan of him during the Lisbon debates, but that will not 'cloud' my judgement of him now until I have details and facts

I appreciate what you're saying - let's see what he has to offer before making a judgement - and usually you'd be right, obviously. The problem here, though, is that on previous form - and he has previous form - he won't commit to anything as solid as a manifesto before he starts making noise. He literally did not issue a manifesto for the Euro elections until the eve of the election (if then) - you had to vote purely on the basis of his public pronouncements and appearances. There was no option.

So "wait and see", while usually fine, is not fine in this specific case, because the last time he stood for election - stood as leader of a party that ran 100 candidates across Europe, no less, and spent a few million doing so - there was no manifesto.

So you could wait for a manifesto, but I'm betting Declan won't - so if he's going back into public life, you'll be hearing a lot from Declan before you'll be in a position to make your informed decision. If he's not going to be standing for election, there's no reason he would be issuing a manifesto, and the idea that I should wait for one before deciding on his public pronouncements becomes very silly indeed.

You could say I'm being harsh in expecting that once again we'll see style over substance, but I'm hardly making that call in a vacuum - and for all either of us know, he's going the standard route for failed Irish politicians, and becoming an opinion writer.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Lockstep

acer1000 wrote: »

That comment makes me laugh. What about all the other more dodgy characters that probably canvassed you?

None of the other MEP candidates were as vague and evasive when I questioned them about their policies.

acer1000 wrote: »

Whatever one may say, think or subscribe to the guy, he sure makes nearly all our elected officials look like wimps in comparison. He’s one politician who at least speaks to us like we are intelligent adults, not like children being told what they want to hear.

You're right, scaremongering and misrepresenting what the EU can do is speaking to people like adults.

acer1000 wrote: »

He has conviction, intelligence and is very articulate. There are some elected officials that have the last 2 qualities, but I can’t think of any who seem to have any conviction with regard to what they are about. Okay, Eamon Ryan seems to have when he speaks about his green issues.

None of these mean he is a good politician. I met the man, hes intensely dissturbing. He kept talking about fishing and video games companies. WHen I asked him which group in the EP Libertas would sit with, his answer was delusional: "We'll get enough seats for form our own bloc)
Lawd!

acer1000 wrote: »

His sceptical stance on EU issues certainly now seem to have a lot of credibility, considering our current mess. I think we would be in a better position had we listened to more of what he had to say.

How on earth can you blame the EU for this? The ECB and the relative strentgth of the Euro is what is helping keep us afloat.

acer1000 wrote: »

Somebody said he got it right on an issue for the wrong reason, that’s still a hell of a lot better than our mainstream politicians who obviously got it so wrong, yet having more reasons to get it right, in terms of the resources at their disposal. Shame on them.

Declan Ganley is extremely wealthy and if you were around Connaught-Ulster during the European Elections you'd have seen just how much money Libertas was pumping into the campaign. Branded campaign buses, legions of tshirts, flyers delivered across the country etc.
Libertas sure as hell weren't underfunded. He got hauled over the coals by the other candidates during a debate for having resources well beyond what he should have, given the cap for campaigns and he refused to answer.

acer1000 wrote: »

Let’s hear more from this man. I hope he still thinks we’re worth it.

Suit yourself, I was extremely glad to see him lose. His policies were thin on the ground (TRANSPARENCY AND DEMOCRACY!)
Especially the fact that on the day of the election, the Libertas website was still saying "we'll put our policies up shortly".

c montgomery

kickoutthejams wrote: »

He canvassed me during the 2009 elections, very dodgy character.

He's qualified to be a TD so

sensibleken

This guys like Jason Voorhees but less entertaining. Just die already! politically speaking