The return of Declan Ganley

oscarBravo

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Many people on this board a few years back rubbished the idea that the Lisbon Treaty would result in our sovereignty being weakened. This past week we have seen politicians from all sides frantically urging the Taoiseach to stand up for Irish sovereignty.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc? You do know that's a logical fallacy?

Mister men wrote: »

Like or loath him he has been correct about everything in regards to Europe.

No, he hasn't. Not even close.

Mister men

oscarBravo wrote: »

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc? You do know that's a logical fallacy?

No, he hasn't. Not even close.

Yes he has. Care to explain.

oscarBravo

Mister men wrote: »

Yes he has. Care to explain.

I have, ad nauseam, throughout his utterly deceitful Lisbon campaigns. Care to point out something he's been right about?

K-9

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Many people on this board a few years back rubbished the idea that the Lisbon Treaty would result in our sovereignty being weakened. This past week we have seen politicians from all sides frantically urging the Taoiseach to stand up for Irish sovereignty. I listened to Michael Noonan make this point on RTE. Well surely we wouldn't have to stand up for our sovereignty if it was never under threat?

Whatever about Ganley's views he was right on that particular point and as far as I'm concerned, the people who endorsed Lisbon are partially responsible for the shameful position we now find ourselves in. Even the Irish Free State had economic sovereignty.

We could refuse the bail out if we want, if we are that precious about it.

sensibleken

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Many people on this board a few years back rubbished the idea that the Lisbon Treaty would result in our sovereignty being weakened. This past week we have seen politicians from all sides frantically urging the Taoiseach to stand up for Irish sovereignty. I listened to Michael Noonan make this point on RTE. Well surely we wouldn't have to stand up for our sovereignty if it was never under threat?

Whatever about Ganley's views he was right on that particular point and as far as I'm concerned, the people who endorsed Lisbon are partially responsible for the shameful position we now find ourselves in. Even the Irish Free State had economic sovereignty.

and those people were correct. lisbon has nothing to do with the situation we are in. sovereinity is gone not because of lisbon. if you think it has i would love to hear your arguement as to how.

kaiser sauze

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Many people on this board a few years back rubbished the idea that the Lisbon Treaty would result in our sovereignty being weakened. This past week we have seen politicians from all sides frantically urging the Taoiseach to stand up for Irish sovereignty. I listened to Michael Noonan make this point on RTE. Well surely we wouldn't have to stand up for our sovereignty if it was never under threat?

Whatever about Ganley's views he was right on that particular point and as far as I'm concerned, the people who endorsed Lisbon are partially responsible for the shameful position we now find ourselves in. Even the Irish Free State had economic sovereignty.

You, and steelcityblues, are getting bad governance, and the need for financial assistance, with handing over our tax raising powers to Brussells mixed up.

Mr.Nice Guy

Some are suggesting there is no link to the weakening of our voice on the European stage with the events of the past number of years?

sensibleken wrote:

and those people were correct. lisbon has nothing to do with the situation we are in. sovereinity is gone not because of lisbon. if you think it has i would love to hear your arguement as to how.

Sovereignty was weakening all the time. Lisbon was a part of that and a rejection was our chance to turn the tide. Before the result of the first Treaty was announced Barroso was arguing that it made no difference and ratification would continue. I voted No not because of abortion, neutrality or all the other guff that was used to explain the No vote. I did so because I was concerned about the weakening of our national voice. As far as I was concerned my vote was vindicated by Barroso on that day and the subsequent disgraceful way the result was treated.

As much as it may pain those who bought into Cowen and the Yes campaign's 'Vote Yes For Jobs' lies, the fact is the likes of David Cameron were the ones that were right about the matter.

I mean, who is in a better position at the minute? Cowen or Cameron? Ironically a Tory had a better idea of what was best for this country's sovereignty than a supposed 'soldier of destiny' of the 'Republican Party'.

We have now got nothing more than glorified Home Rule under an EU umbrella but sure most of this will fall on deaf ears to many on here.

oscarBravo

So you don't realise that it's a logical fallacy. Fair enough.

evercloserunion

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

We have now got nothing more than glorified Home Rule under an EU umbrella but sure most of this will fall on deaf ears to many on here.

That's because it is absolute nonsense.

sensibleken

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Some are suggesting there is no link to the weakening of our voice on the European stage with the events of the past number of years?



Sovereignty was weakening all the time. Lisbon was a part of that and a rejection was our chance to turn the tide. Before the result of the first Treaty was announced Barroso was arguing that it made no difference and ratification would continue. I voted No not because of abortion, neutrality or all the other guff that was used to explain the No vote. I did so because I was concerned about the weakening of our national voice. As far as I was concerned my vote was vindicated by Barroso on that day and the subsequent disgraceful way the result was treated.

As much as it may pain those who bought into Cowen and the Yes campaign's 'Vote Yes For Jobs' lies, the fact is the likes of David Cameron were the ones that were right about the matter.

I mean, who is in a better position at the minute? Cowen or Cameron? Ironically a Tory had a better idea of what was best for this country's sovereignty than a supposed 'soldier of destiny' of the 'Republican Party'.

We have now got nothing more than glorified Home Rule under an EU umbrella but sure most of this will fall on deaf ears to many on here.

do you actually get whats happening?

we are in a position now because of a housing bubble that burst, this caused a credit crisis in the lending institutions which because of the bank garuntee and falling tax receipts has resulted in us operating at -18 billion per annum.

we have to then get a bailout from the imf and the eu because of this

what the hell has that got to do with lisbon??

what way did lisbon diminish soverignity and what way has that caused any of how we got here. please reference actual facts and events.

meglome

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Many people on this board a few years back rubbished the idea that the Lisbon Treaty would result in our sovereignty being weakened. This past week we have seen politicians from all sides frantically urging the Taoiseach to stand up for Irish sovereignty. I listened to Michael Noonan make this point on RTE. Well surely we wouldn't have to stand up for our sovereignty if it was never under threat?

Whatever about Ganley's views he was right on that particular point and as far as I'm concerned, the people who endorsed Lisbon are partially responsible for the shameful position we now find ourselves in. Even the Irish Free State had economic sovereignty.

Oh sweet jesus, this is really getting tired. The Lisbon treaty has nothing to do with us bankrupting the country through our own stupidity or the stupidity of those we elected. This word sovereignty seems to mean whatever the person talking about it thinks it does.

I've said this elsewhere. If you leave an adult alone with a big box of sweets you don't expect they'll eat them all and puke on your floor. So we acted like greedy children when we should have been acting like adults. Now we've got a bad stomach ache, a self inflicted stomach ache.

kaiser sauze

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Some are suggesting there is no link to the weakening of our voice on the European stage with the events of the past number of years?



Sovereignty was weakening all the time. Lisbon was a part of that and a rejection was our chance to turn the tide. Before the result of the first Treaty was announced Barroso was arguing that it made no difference and ratification would continue. I voted No not because of abortion, neutrality or all the other guff that was used to explain the No vote. I did so because I was concerned about the weakening of our national voice. As far as I was concerned my vote was vindicated by Barroso on that day and the subsequent disgraceful way the result was treated.

As much as it may pain those who bought into Cowen and the Yes campaign's 'Vote Yes For Jobs' lies, the fact is the likes of David Cameron were the ones that were right about the matter.

I mean, who is in a better position at the minute? Cowen or Cameron? Ironically a Tory had a better idea of what was best for this country's sovereignty than a supposed 'soldier of destiny' of the 'Republican Party'.

We have now got nothing more than glorified Home Rule under an EU umbrella but sure most of this will fall on deaf ears to many on here.

Seriously, educate yourself. Do some research, at least give me the impression that you have looked into this and did not just listen to Libertas/Sinn Féin nonsense.

I want you to explain to me either the competence that The EU solely controls, or a shared one, that they can use to diminish our sovereignty?

You coming on here and mis-informing people just keeps our electorate in 'stupid mode', and we need that mode switched off to get FF out of government.

fionntan g

here's the interview

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/video/Declan-Ganley-Calls-For-Reform-Of-Bankrupt-Euro-Model/Video/201011415822266

good job declan

evercloserunion

fionntan g wrote: »

here's the interview

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/video/Declan-Ganley-Calls-For-Reform-Of-Bankrupt-Euro-Model/Video/201011415822266

good job declan

Why on earth do Sky even give him the time of day, no one else does. I guess because he's a right-wing Eurosceptic so he fits their ideology?

fionntan g

or because he's a strong public talker?

Will be intresting to see if he's given much more media attention in the comming weeks.

Agent Smith

oh deco you loveable scamp! where will your votes "be misplaced" this time?

sirromo

What I'd like to know is - what happened to those allegations that were made about him during the Lisbon campaign? Has any new evidence come to light substantiating the claims that he was acting in the interests or in the pay of the CIA or of some shady US military groups?

According to this

Cohn-Bendit claimed Ganley had concluded military procurement contracts with the Pentagon worth about $200m.

He said: "We must continue to keep close tabs on these things, and the facts must be put on the table. We cannot allow Europe to be damaged by people who demand transparency but are not prepared to play by the same rules themselves." This was greeted with applause.

Cohn-Bendit said Dick Roche had "made it his personal responsibility to investigate these matters. I warmly encourage his systematic pursuit of the truth". Dick Roche is still looking. He has found nothing.

Has Dick concluded his investigations? When can we can expect him to make public his findings?

RandomName2

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

We have now got nothing more than glorified Home Rule under an EU umbrella but sure most of this will fall on deaf ears to many on here.

You are totally wrong.

We have less than Home Rule. Home Rule guarantees absolute control over internal affairs. The superstructure of the EU is the arbiter of laws that come to pass in the Republic (which Irish politicians form a small part of... a little like they did in Westminster; only with another house... i.e. the Consillium). The IMF (which has nothing to do with Lisbon) is the ultimate arbiter in terms of our national budgets... of course we ceded monetary sovereignty many years ago to the EU.

So much less than Home Rule you sycophantic europhile!

RandomName2

fionntan g wrote: »

or because he's a strong public talker?

Will be intresting to see if he's given much more media attention in the comming weeks.

He has good rhetoric. No idea why his content is not stronger, broader and more accurate. He is, at heart an entrepreneur, not a politician. Where a politician will waffle when asked a hard question, Ganley will bluster, filibuster, and sometimes be, simply, wrong. Not good for grabbing middle ground, building bridges and sneaking into positions of power. A successful politician does not have to be moral, a hard worker, or correct;he has to be able to obtain power such to influence government. To that end Ganley is an unmitigated disaster. Insofar he generated discussion about the treaty he was a success... albeit without producing substantiated consensus, factual certainty, or public confidence.

Ganley was quite simply a magnet for criticism, and the concerted effort made by the established parties to snuff out any new potential political force. RTE find nothing wrong with republican Sinn Fein, but Libertas were somehow devils incarnate. Ultimately the reaction to Libertas, regardless of any real strength exerted by Libertas, augers badly for the progress of our democracy.

RandomName2

sirromo wrote: »

Has Dick concluded his investigations? When can we can expect him to make public his findings?

Coir were not alone in just making stuff up and sticking a question mark at the end of their statements. Being right in either case would be mostly coincidental.

steelcityblues

It is interesting how some peoples prejudices slip out on a thread like this, when they say to the effect of: 'Why does that station allow him to come on?'. Heaven forbid different voices to your own consensus can be allowed a fair shake on the airwaves like the rest.

Hope none of you will go into the world of broadcasting, or are already employed in that area!

prinz

Have to admit I got a strange nostalgic feeling when I saw him on Sky News the other night. One of a kind is Declan. Hope he sticks around for a bit of light relief.

meglome

steelcityblues wrote: »

It is interesting how some peoples prejudices slip out on a thread like this, when they say to the effect of: 'Why does that station allow him to come on?'. Heaven forbid different voices to your own consensus can be allowed a fair shake on the airwaves like the rest.

Hope none of you will go into the world of broadcasting, or are already employed in that area!

Well he did tell a a load of lies about the Lisbon treaty, that's not in doubt. Great if people just want to hear what they already choose to believe but personally I'd rather the truth. As long as people are challenged on their views they should be allowed in all media outlets. The problem is when you have the likes of Fox news who spin an awful lot of things.

kaiser sauze

He seemed rather confused about things he used to say about Lisbon.

One of the things Libertas would have you believe was that we had ceded our ability to dictate our tax affairs.

Last night he lambasted Verhofstadt for thinking that he could influence our tax affairs in any way.

Which is it, Declan?

CantGetNoSleep

sirromo wrote: »

What I'd like to know is - what happened to those allegations that were made about him during the Lisbon campaign? Has any new evidence come to light substantiating the claims that he was acting in the interests or in the pay of the CIA or of some shady US military groups?

According to this



Has Dick concluded his investigations? When can we can expect him to make public his findings?

Did Declan ever follow through on his promise after Lisbon I to show where his funding came from though?

PeterIanStaker

@ Cantgetnosleep; I doubt it, and I'm sure he'd evade the question like a true pseudopolitician.

evercloserunion

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Did Declan ever follow through on his promise after Lisbon I to show where his funding came from though?

Not to my knowledge. But then he also said he was getting out of politics after his defeat in the Euros, and look how well he kept that promise. :rolleyes:

loldog

Remember this?

.

evercloserunion

loldog wrote: »

Remember this?

.

Yeah, what about it?

kaiser sauze

loldog wrote: »

Remember this?

.

Are you projecting that the Lisbon treating passing is the cause of our current problems?