Paul Gogarty says he is being "patriotic" by propping up the government.

DeVore

Due to a thread on Boards here, I decided to put it directly to Mr Gogarty that he and other supposedly angry TDs should step down and trigger a general election.

My "tweet" in full:
"@PaulGogartyTD I and others would like to know why you and other supposedly angry TD's dont resign and trigger a G.E. http://bit.ly/bCf1rm "

His reply:
@DeVore it's called patriotism


I find this answer deeply unsatifactory and smacks of glib smart-arsedness. I've subsequently put this to him:
@PaulGogartyTD Patriotism would be allowing the people of Ireland self determination. We would prefer an answer not a glib soundbite.


On the plus side, at least he's responding directly which is more then the vast majority of our "representatives".

DeV.

bad2dabone

I really have no time for Paul Gogarty. He's propping up the government because he know's he'll be getting smacked down by the electorate when the time comes, and like the other greens he's hanging on to his moment of power by the tips of his fingers.

Sheeps

Patriotism... that's comical.

meglome

patriotism hehehehe. Now I'm all for patriotism as such but that answer is bull****.

Wide Road wrote: »

Lets suppose he didn't reply. Would it change your headline? My guess is yes because your headline is based on Paul's reply. Are you with me? Let's hope so because I need your help now. Remember when the Dail took their Summer holidays and a FG TD tried to drive back to West Cork while under the influence of alcohol. This guy is called PJ Sheehan and he could have and in all probability would have killed someone only for the actions of a guard that was assualted by PJ. Now, be truthful and answer this question, do you think this politician deserves to be a member of Dail Eireann? Yes or No, it's your call.

I don't think anyone would support Sheehans actions but then again he didn't basically bankrupt the country.

M three

DeVore wrote: »

Due to a thread on Boards here, I decided to put it directly to Mr Gogarty that he and other supposedly angry TDs should step down and trigger a general election.

My "tweet" in full:
"@PaulGogartyTD I and others would like to know why you and other supposedly angry TD's dont resign and trigger a G.E. http://bit.ly/bCf1rm "

His reply:
@DeVore it's called patriotism


I find this answer deeply unsatifactory and smacks of glib smart-arsedness. I've subsequently put this to him:
@PaulGogartyTD Patriotism would be allowing the people of Ireland self determination. We would prefer an answer not a glib soundbite.


On the plus side, at least he's responding directly which is more then the vast majority of our "representatives".

DeV.

good god. how convenient to blame a green party member for propping up the government. just like blaming the pd's all those years ago.
well guess what, the pd's are long gone and fianna fail are still fcukking us over.

flynnlives

I see the FF trolls are out in force tonight!

Seriously tho, FF must have thought christmas had come early in 2007 when these green lunatics showed up looking for a piece of the pie! what bits have they actually accomplished in their pfg? lightbulbs and the banning of one stag hunt!

I notice that their much hyped ideology of banning corporate donations has been quietly shelved during the week!

meglome

M three wrote: »

good god. how convenient to blame a green party member for propping up the government. just like blaming the pd's all those years ago.
well guess what, the pd's are long gone and fianna fail are still fcukking us over.

As much as i disagreed with the Green Party supporting Fianna Fail I do feel kinda sorry they are going to get destroyed at the next election. Though play with fires and you will get burned.

OutlawPete

meglome wrote: »

As much as i disagreed with the Green Party supporting Fianna Fail I do feel kinda sorry they are going to get destroyed at the next election.

Why would you feel sorry for them, if that happens?

Wide Road

flynnlives wrote: »

I see the FF trolls are out in force tonight!

Seriously tho, FF must have thought christmas had come early in 2007 when these green lunatics showed up looking for a piece of the pie! what bits have they actually accomplished in their pfg? lightbulbs and the banning of one stag hunt!

I notice that their much hyped ideology of banning corporate donations has been quietly shelved during the week!

What is the FG position on banning corporate donations?

DeVore

Because they were elected for a reason OTHER then to prop up FF and that reason was important and remains unchanged.

I feel nothing for the specific PEOPLE involved but I feel sorry that the "Green Party" will cease to exist and their worthy cause along with them, but perhaps its best. Perhaps a genuine Green Party can arise from the ashes.

DeV.

meglome

OutlawPete wrote: »

Why would you feel sorry for them, if that happens?

Well I do agree with many of their policy's and always saw them as a place to give a vote to. However I won't be voting for them after supporting those Fianna Fools.

DeVore

Wide Road. Last warning, I've had to move several of your post for being off topic. I've even gone as far as creating a whole NEW topic for them here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056049329

Further offtopicness will lead to an opportunity to reappraise your approach next week.

DeV.

flynnlives

Wide Road wrote: »

What is the FG position on banning corporate donations?

i dunno. But they didnt go on and on about a specific policy only for it to be completely ignored and quietly shelved.

DeVore

Flynn. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you and I posted at the same time.


Further off-topicness will be deleted.

DeV.

M three

DeVore wrote: »

Because they were elected for a reason OTHER then to prop up FF and that reason was important and remains unchanged.

I feel nothing for the specific PEOPLE involved but I feel sorry that the "Green Party" will cease to exist and their worthy cause along with them, but perhaps its best. Perhaps a genuine Green Party can arise from the ashes.

DeV.

so you are saying that it was the green partys job to ensure that fianna fail dont do what they've always been doing, which just in case you dont know is thieving and lying??

so come next election we shouldnt blame fianna fail but the greens???

DeVore

No, I'm blaming the specific people elected under the Green Party banner for not doing what they were elected to do, which is to champion green issues. Which imho, they haven't.

I'm also sorry that they seem to have destroyed the Green Party along the way.

DeV.

DeVore

I'm also calling Mr Gogarty on his apparent hypocrisy of decrying this government while still propping it up. Either you are part of the problem or you are part of the solution.

DeV.

OutlawPete

meglome wrote: »

Well I do agree with many of their policy's and always saw them as a place to give a vote to. However I won't be voting for them after supporting those Fianna Fools.

I voted for them also, which was why I asked.

I wouldn't vote for them again.

DeVore wrote: »

Because they were elected for a reason OTHER then to prop up FF and that reason was important and remains unchanged.

I agree 100%, but when they were elected, this was put to them and they were adamant that they were not going to be there just to make up the numbers.

The vast majority of Green Party TDs lost their back bone when they got power.


Trevor Sargent in particular.

DeVore wrote: »

I feel nothing for the specific PEOPLE involved but I feel sorry that the "Green Party" will cease to exist and their worthy cause along with them, but perhaps its best. Perhaps a genuine Green Party can arise from the ashes.

I hope your right but I think the Green Party are more damaged now than FF are.

FF voters historically have got very short memories when it comes to their party's shortcomings, I'm not so sure Green Party voters will.

The Labour Party may not be as 'Green' as the Green Party, but I think now at this stage, I'd much rather have for a party that delivers on 50% of a ten promises, than on one that has a thousand promises but yet delivers on none.

M three

do you hold the same ire for all fianna fail td's?

or are you just trying to blame the greens for the treacherous activities of another political party?

OutlawPete

M three wrote: »

do you hold the same ire for all fianna fail td's?

or are you just trying to blame the greens for the treacherous activities of another political party?

Not sure if this is directed at Dev or myself, but I certainly have as much contempt for them both, in equal measures.

I am however more angry with Green Party TDs as I thought they held themselves to a higher standard than FF, I was wrong.

M three

OutlawPete wrote: »

Not sure if this is directed at Dev or myself, but I certainly have as much contempt for them both.

I am however more angry with the Green Party TDs as I thought they held themselves to a higher standard than FF, I was wrong.

question was for dv.

misguided anger pete. you seriously expected the greens to police fianna fail when the police themselves wont / cant do it??

DeVore

I didnt think that "ire" for Fianna Fail was in short supply so I presumed it was taken as "given"

DeV.

ArmaniJeanss

DeVore wrote: »

I find this answer deeply unsatifactory and smacks of glib smart-arsedness.

In fairness your question was deeply unsatisfactory and smacked of glib oversimplification of the issues, and soundbite-ism at its worst.
It got the type of answer it deserved imo.

*****
You still play poker?
In poker terms it would be -EV of the Greens to abandon government at this stage. They will get wiped out which will mean that there is no chance of their being in a position to have some of their policies implemented. Staying in government means that some of their policies will be implemented over the next 18 months.

Patriotism may also be a truthful answer by the way. There is no obvious reason at this stage to expect anything other than a hung Dail if the country had a general election tomorrow; with the 6 main parties and a swathe of local-issue independents spending months trying to make up the majority 87 votes to form a government. This FF/Greens/exPD/a.n.other mess we have at the moment may be fondly looked back on as a stable government in the next decade.

DeVore

Actually, to be completely fair... Paul Gogarty is in my firing line because he

1. Is claiming to be madly "angry" about what FF is doing but continues to support them.

2. Is the only one who seems to be engaging with the populace.

He should be castigated for 1 and praised for 2. imho. He is, at least, not hiding behind Leinster Houses gates (truck-proof or otherwise). I'll say that for him.


DeV

DeVore

Armani, Twitter doesnt allow for long discourses.... I had to craft that question carefully just to get it into the character limit.

I also dont disagree that the alternative to our goverment isnt much better. The whole thing is a mess but I find it galling that someone can proffer a high minded concept such as "patriotism" while clearly abandoning the wishes of the electorate and appearing to save his own skin.

Since when did "they know best"? Isnt the electorate the supreme authority in a democracy?

DeV.

OutlawPete

M three wrote: »

question was for dv.

Apologies.

M three wrote: »

..misguided anger pete. you seriously expected the greens to police fianna fail when the police themselves wont / cant do it??

No, never said that I expected them to "police fianna fail".

I expected them to have some back bone and stand firm to the issues and polices that they seem to hold so dear.

The Green Party were like clowder of Cheshire cats at the beginning of the affair and so they clearly must have swallowed whatever FF had sold to them.

Then then began rolling over and compromising on a daily basis to the point where it became laughable.

Everytime this happened, they would come out with the usual rubbish about how they worked hard to get whatever breadcrumbs FF gave them and that the Green Party's members should really be happy to get that much because of the economic climate and how Green issues are no longer being given priority.

The truth is, they liked the taste of power and still do and will do whatever it takes to hang on to it.

I don't care who is in Government next to be honest with you, just once neither of those two parties are, that's all that matters to me.

DeVore

I expect them to police themselves. They havent.

I also expect them to not lie down with dogs and then complain of fleas.


DeV.

southsiderosie

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

In poker terms it would be -EV of the Greens to abandon government at this stage. They will get wiped out which will mean that there is no chance of their being in a position to have some of their policies implemented. Staying in government means that some of their policies will be implemented over the next 18 months.

Like what? The government has NO MONEY. We're likely to see Green initiatives getting cut, not the other way around.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Patriotism may also be a truthful answer by the way. There is no obvious reason at this stage to expect anything other than a hung Dail if the country had a general election tomorrow; with the 6 main parties and a swathe of local-issue independents spending months trying to make up the majority 87 votes to form a government. This FF/Greens/exPD/a.n.other mess we have at the moment may be fondly looked back on as a stable government in the next decade.

The spin here make my head hurt. It would not take months to form a government; the markets wouldn't allow it. Plus Labour would have to be very clear about who they would and would not go into government with before the election.

In addition, I think a broader coalition government would go a long way in preventing the kind of information hoarding that the current government is involved in. This is one of the most critical moments in the history of the Republic, and the government does not seem to be able to shift out of back room wheeling and dealing mode. There needs to be an open honest debate about the nature of the upcoming cuts and the direction of the country from this point on, not fanciful employment reports and vague mumbling about moving forward.

OutlawPete wrote: »

FF voters historically have got very short memories when it comes to their party's shortcomings, I'm not so sure Green Party voters will.

THANK YOU. This is exactly what FF voters don't seem to get: in general, Green voters have much higher expectations of their party, and if they have to be in opposition to hang on to their base, then so be it. Green votes are based on policy not family history or raw populism. This was patently obvious in the 2009 local elections, especially in Dublin: Green candidates had doors slammed in their faces for propping up the FF government, and Labour got a huge bounce. Tough **** for them; like DeV said, if you lay down with dogs you may get up fleas.

Wide Road

DeVore wrote: »

The whole thing is a mess but I find it galling that someone can proffer a high minded concept such as "patriotism" while clearly abandoning the wishes of the electorate and appearing to save his own skin.

Since when did "they know best"? Isnt the electorate the supreme authority in a democracy?

DeV.

Are you implying that Paul should act on opinion polls? If so, Enda is in big trouble. You and your "thanks" friends are very quiet on this.

DeVore

Dude I last posted at something like 6am. You post at 11 saying I'm very quiet on something you just brought up a sentence before.

Contrary to popular belief, I do sleep.

I'm highlighting his response to my questions and prompting a discussion about whether this jibes with his proclaimed position of being a "rebel" and his own man. Either he is his own man and he is choosing to stay (which seems to be his line) or he is being disingenuous and saying one thing while his actions betray him. Beyond that it's up to his constituents to decide, ironically whenever we have the general election.

DeV.

DeVore

In fact I really wish he would come here and talk to us and explain his stance. Twitters character limit forces soundbites and stifles deep discussion on complex topics. Personally I would like to hear more of his reasoning for his stance.

DeV.

Dirk Gently

DeVore wrote: »

Actually, to be completely fair... Paul Gogarty is in my firing line because he

1. Is claiming to be madly "angry" about what FF is doing but continues to support them.

2. Is the only one who seems to be engaging with the populace.

He should be castigated for 1 and praised for 2. imho. He is, at least, not hiding behind Leinster Houses gates (truck-proof or otherwise). I'll say that for him.


DeV

I don't agree Dev. Point 2 is directly related to point one above. Gogarty manipulates twittter and facebook to project an image of opposition. He is not engaging with the populace, he is deliberately and systematically trying to deceive his voters into thinking that the green party and he in particular is a voice of opposition.

The "Patriotic" thing to do would be admit that the greens are in way over their head and go to the people for the sake of the country. It was quite possibly the worst point of time in the history of the state for a "noob" zero experience party to prop up a FF government.

Paul Gogarty is all surface and no depth. To read his tweets or his facebook page you would be forgiven to think it was still 2005 when the green party could safely get on the moral high horse and criticise "government" from the safety of the opposition benches. This mechanism is all they have ever known and they are unable to make the transition from minority opposition party to active members of a government.

At the risk of going off on a tangent, the green party are so consumed by guilt of selling out the country and the knowledge that they have destroyed their own party that I'm pretty sure that one or two weeks of sustained targeted attacks from FG and Lab against the greens would break them and collapse the government. I think FG and LAB know this too but they wont force the issue because they want this government to stay in power long enough to pass the budget for them.

Don't be fooled by the tweets, it's nothing more than nervous guilt, trying to fool people into thinking they are opposition within government when the truth is they haven't the backbone to do the right thing.

meglome

clown bag wrote: »

I don't agree Dev. Point 2 is directly related to point one above. Gogarty manipulates twittter and facebook to project an image of opposition. He is not engaging with the populace, he is deliberately and systematically trying to deceive his voters into thinking that the green party and he in particular is a voice of opposition.

To be fair the more politicians use technology to engage the more chance for us the electorate to engage in return. This should hopefully lead to said politicians making better decisions.

While I welcome Paul Gogarty's use of things like Facebook and twitter I have to agree with you that it looks like he's trying to save his own ass. That patriotism answer really was bull.

DeVore

I ain't fooled by anything but I believe in giving the man a chance to explain himself before condemning him.

I want to press some hard questions and give him an opportunity to explain himself to me and you. A lie can't withstand contact with reasoned debate. I ain't going to give up on Mr Gogarty just yet but if all he is willing to do is sit in his ivory Twitter tower and post snippets from on high, then I don't think that's real engagement... It's just more "I talk, you listen" broadcast media model.

I'll offer him an account here and see if he will talk to us.

DeV.

Dirk Gently

meglome wrote: »

To be fair the more politicians use technology to engage the more chance for us the electorate to engage in return.

sure, but I don't think engaging with the electorate is what Gogarty is doing tbh. He uses it to update us with sound-bites and fluffy "I'm outraged at the government but there's nothing I can do" type nonsense.

Backard_Pell

I guess Paul Gogarty has a mortgage and family to raise, and has watched his political career turn to rumble after teaming up with FF, and is now resigned to the fact that the Greens will be brought down with FF in the impending election.
He is probably worried what future prospects hold for his political career as there may not be many doors open for him after the election blood bath, I dont blame him for being worried, and angry at his party making the suicidal error of going into government with FF.
He might get a few more pay packets out of the Dail, but most of this will go straight into the negative equity black hole of the 3 bed semi in Lucan (Im just guessing).
Ivor Callely is being very patriotic lately, isn't he?

DeVore

Dear Mr Gogarty, I have to write this here because twitter is too constrictive.

My name is Tom Murphy, and I am one of the founders of boards.ie , by far and away the largest discussion forum in the state.

There are people here who would like to ask you questions and others who would like to hear your point of view. To facilitate this, I am offering to set up an account for you and verify that it is you using it.

The only condition is that you have to engage with us meaningfully, no party political broadcasts without response to reasonable questions asked. From your Twitter feed that doesn't seem to be a problem for you.

In return we will guarantee that you will not be abused or threatened or unfairly maligned. (one of our rules is that people must be civil and it's particularly strict on the politics forum).

Are you willing to give this a shot and be the first TD to actually be brave and face their critics? Not everyone is against you and I for one might not agree with you but I would very much like the opportunity to put my views to you and hear your insiders opinion and your counter arguments.

If you are interested please drop me a mail to Tom .at. Boards.ie and confirm on your Twitter that you have done that so I know it's not someone trying to con me.

I will reserve the username PaulGogartyTD for you in advance so no one can grab it.

Yours sincerely,
Tom Murphy
Director Boards.ie ltd.

Amhran Nua

There are two possibilites here as I see it...

Mr Gogarty knows he's in the wrong, but knows he can't be removed from his position until the inevitable crunching defeat at the polls, at which point he can presumably collect his pension, benefits, and possibly look forward to positions in various quangoes and committees in the mid to long term. Protestations of anger are simply covering the bases.

Mr Gogarty genuinely believes that FF are taking the best course of action for the country, hence his comment on patriotism, which raises the question as to why he is expressing anger at FF policies. Possibly he might have confused "Green party success" with "patriotism", but on the balance, can he really believe that whatever good is being done outweighs the vast damage?

Therefore should he fail to make an appearance here, the former option is reinforced.

Executive Steve

There has to be better ways of getting Twitter followers than this Tom...


You'd also do well to remember the old adage about not arguing with a fool because he'll drag you down of his level and beat you with experience.

DeVore

Well I've put the invitation to him on my Twitter.

I'm not joking that if he comes to answer our questions, those questions and the debate following may be robust but it WILL be civil and reasonable. I don't care how angry people are, drive your virtual cement mixers over to pol.ie cos it's not welcome here.

Finally, I'm not singling out mr Gogarty for special treatment, I'll make the same offer to any sitting TD. It's just that Mr Gogarty seems to be the only one going the Obama route of direct interaction through the Internet (correct me if I'm wrong)

DeV.

Wolfe Tone

DeVore wrote: »

My "tweet" in full:
"@PaulGogartyTD I and others would like to know why you and other supposedly angry TD's dont resign and trigger a G.E. http://bit.ly/bCf1rm "

His reply:
@DeVore it's called patriotism


I find this answer deeply unsatifactory and smacks of glib smart-arsedness. I've subsequently put this to him:
@PaulGogartyTD Patriotism would be allowing the people of Ireland self determination. We would prefer an answer not a glib soundbite.


On the plus side, at least he's responding directly which is more then the vast majority of our "representatives".

DeV.

The people of Ireland are allowed self determination, well with the obvious exception of the 6, but what was wrong with his reply? Patriotism? That is an acceptable reply imho. Perhaps he views his support as a unfortunate necessity, supporting cut backs etc as an unfortunate necessity, one which he does not want to do, but feels obliged to do so out of a sense of patriotic duty?


ANd as for referring to him as a smart arse, how does that fall within the new rules here on boards?

DeVore

I hope that's a joke

1.8 million different people used boards last month. I have 93 Twitter followers. If I wanted fame and celebrity I'd stick my blog on the top of every page hahaha.

This is about genuinely seeing how far this can go and who knows what might come of it. I'm willing to provide the platform and set fair ground rules, the ball is in the other court(s).

DeV.

DeVore

I didn't refer to him as a smart arse, I said the answered smacked of smartarsedness.

To be fair, you might be right and I can see a genuine argument that could be made along the lines you did above. But I don't now what he's thinking because of the medium he's using.

I might not even disagree with him because on another thread I'm telling people to calm and not riot because we are in the eye of the storm!!!

I vehemently disagree with saving Anglo but do we really want Labour now? The best choice IMHO would be FG but dear god they seem incompetent and impotent and very unclear on what they would do instead.

But I digress.

DeV.

freewheeler

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The people of Ireland are allowed self determination, well with the obvious exception of the 6, but what was wrong with his reply? Patriotism? That is an acceptable reply imho. Perhaps he views his support as a unfortunate necessity, supporting cut backs etc as an unfortunate necessity, one which he does not want to do, but feels obliged to do so out of a sense of patriotic duty?


ANd as for referring to him as a smart arse, how does that fall within the new rules here on boards?

If being 'patriotic' includes propping-up this disgraceful excuse for a government...then i think that both he and his compatriots should examine their collective consciences (if they still exist)

Poly

DeVore wrote: »

drive your virtual cement mixers over to pol.ie cos it's not welcome here.

Mr Gogarty seems to be the only one going the Obama route of direct interaction through the Internet (correct me if I'm wrong)

Virtual cement mixer:D, small virtual pitch forks are ok?

What about our esteemed Minister for communication, does he communicate?
I've seen him at meetings, his blackberry never leaves his hand.

Wolfe Tone

DeVore wrote: »

I didn't refer to him as a smart arse, I said the answered smacked of smartarsedness.

Thats being very pedantic For instance if I said that a certain posters posts smacked of smart aresedness that would be ok? Sure going by that logic I could say that about every single one of his posts? Or smacks of stupidity?

To be fair, you might be right and I can see a genuine argument that could be made along the lines you did above.

Thats the argument I imagine he would make....

But I don't now what he's thinking because of the medium he's using.

You want him to come on boards? TBH he has been singled out here, because he put himself out there etc, you imply he is a smart arse in the OP yet go on to say this:

I'm willing to provide the platform and set fair ground rules

Now tbh I do not think that fair ground rules have been set. This has every appearance of attempting to get him on here in order to tear him a new one. He would be idiotic to come on here tbh.

I vehemently disagree with saving Anglo but do we really want Labour now? The best choice IMHO would be FG but dear god they seem incompetent and impotent and very unclear on what they would do instead.

So the foundations that you have set here are to get him on here and bash him with the anglo stick yeah?

DeVore

I'm not going to bash anyone and I'm not going to allow anyone else to bash anyone on this site, those have always been our rules.

I'd like to hear his point of view expounded upon from the only person qualified to do so. Last night I admit to being angry with what I saw as a glib condescending throwaway answer. Today I'd like to know if there is anything more behind that answer or if he is just throwing around soundbites.

I have no time for Gotchas politics as they call it in the US but i very much have time for the idea of our representatives being asked to explain themselves using this new communications platform. I see no reason why that shouldn't be the case.

DeV.

Poly

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

So the foundations that you have set here are to get him on here and bash him with the anglo stick yeah?

We are going to criticise him anyway, Devore is giving him the right of reply.

Any forward looking politician should be on here addressing issues.
An example:
During the last local elections, a chap running for the Meath Town council came on the Meath forum and openly addressed a few issues and questions.
I think there was a bit of mud slinging that he wanted cleared up. I liked what he had to say and gave him my no.1. He was duly elected, not sure what influence his boards account had on other people, but it worked for me.

Dirk Gently

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

So the foundations that you have set here are to get him on here and bash him with the anglo stick yeah?

Gogarty himself tweeted to complain about willie o dea slating the greens on the late late recently. He complained about having a right to reply. The way I see it Dev is giving Gogarty his right to reply here which he felt the late late didnt give him. (not that I think he'd welcome questions that can't be answered in 160 characters or whatever the twitter limit is).

I'd be interested to hear what Pauls reasons are for propping up the FF gov as opposed to walking. I think people deserve to hear his arguments. I'd like him to explain why it's in all our interests to keep FF in power as opposed to having a GE. What is it he knows that we don't. Does he or does he not support FF policies, and if not what exactly would he like to do differently.

Lets be clear, if Paul and the Greens were still in opposition they'd be the ones shouting loudest condemning every decision which has happened since the last GE. Either government has opened their eyes (in which case please do share with the rest of us) or else it's pure self preservation to postpone their own political decline.

hallelujajordan

DeVore wrote: »

I'd like to hear his point of view expounded upon from the only person qualified to do so. Last night I admit to being angry with what I saw as a glib condescending throwaway answer. Today I'd like to know if there is anything more behind that answer or if he is just throwing around soundbites.

You posed a question on twitter . . what did you expect him to respond with in 120 characters other than a soundbite ? And why is it glib ? He believes he is being patriotic. The GP had the opportunity last year to salvage themselves as an entity by bringing down the government. They chose not to and stayed in government knowing that it would likely have hugely detrimental consequences to the future of the Green Party. I'm struggling to understand what could have motivated them other than patriotism.

DeVore wrote: »

I might not even disagree with him because on another thread I'm telling people to calm and not riot because we are in the eye of the storm!!!

I vehemently disagree with saving Anglo but do we really want Labour now? The best choice IMHO would be FG but dear god they seem incompetent and impotent and very unclear on what they would do instead.

I'm not sure I really understand your position . . On the one hand you are calling for calm, quite rightly recognising that what we need right now is calmness and stability in front of the world markets. . . On the other hand, you are challenging a GP TD to bring down the government and trigger a general election that will almost certainly take everyone's eye off the ball for over a month . . when we should all be focused on preparing for a critical budget.

I could understand that if you had faith and confidence in the likely replacement government but you don't even have that. . . You're description of FG is spot-on. Incompetent and Impotent and no fundamentally alternative policies to the current government; The only possible alternative to a FG led government is a Labour-FF coalition with Mr. On-the-fence Gilmore as Taoiseach.

Parking party politics for a moment - Is it really in the best interests of Ireland inc to trigger a General Election right now ??

Poly

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Y
Parking party politics for a moment - Is it really in the best interests of Ireland inc to trigger a General Election right now ??

"Ireland inc". This is about our Republic. This government cannot be trusted, they have cheated and misled the citiziens.

How could keeping a coruupt cabal of liars, tax cheats, forgers, conspirators, freeloaders, incompetents and drunks in power, be in our interest?