If One of the Main Theistic Religions Had To Be True.....

padma

jayzusb.christ wrote: »

Why isn't God generous enough to give us all that special internal connection beyond brain logic? I'm not being sarcastic: if he loved us all, surely he'd see fit to communicate with us all equally so as to give us all a chance of salvation.

And do you have any suggestions as to how to debate something without using words? Debate and discussion are what keep this forum interesting and fresh. It seems to me you're putting yourself in a frankly rather arrogant position of being divinely right, where nothing anyone else can say can affect your rightness.

Well lets say as I'm not aware of your level of understanding or how open you are to excepting what I say. Have you ever had two job offers one has loads of benefits etc and your brain/logic will tell you, go for it, but the other just seems to FEEL better, you can't explain why but it does. So you go with the first job offer and then your in that job and you go Damn I knew I should have chosen the other job.

Well this is a technique which I use and have been trained to discern which choice etc is the best. Similar to when you know someone is lying to you you can feel it. But when you look at that person they seem genuine except for the warning bells going off. There is no arrogance in what I am saying and by no means am I trying to convince anyone. But the truth of the matter is everyone has been given this. And for sure everyone can use it. Yet since we were born we were thought to use our brain only. The kid goes to school and has to learn ABC etc etc. This then leads to the child using the brain more than the Heart.

From my perspective if our Heart was the director and more dominant one our brain would know it's proper place. Which is to take the direction from the Heart. Yet most Human the brain is the managing director and the Heart is hidden only listened to an odd time.

The brain will judge, analyze and argue continuously when this is the case. Yet when the Heart is the managing director the brain will be more, how I say, softer. It is a balance and it aint easy as in everyday life we do tend to use our brain more often than our Heart.

WeeBushy

padma wrote: »

well, you have a belief system of no belief

Nope, we have a lack of belief. They're two completely different things.

Improbable

padma wrote: »

Well lets say as I'm not aware of your level of understanding or how open you are to excepting what I say. Have you ever had two job offers one has loads of benefits etc and your brain/logic will tell you, go for it, but the other just seems to FEEL better, you can't explain why but it does. So you go with the first job offer and then your in that job and you go Damn I knew I should have chosen the other job.

Well this is a technique which I use and have been trained to discern which choice etc is the best. Similar to when you know someone is lying to you you can feel it. But when you look at that person they seem genuine except for the warning bells going off. There is no arrogance in what I am saying and by no means am I trying to convince anyone. But the truth of the matter is everyone has been given this. And for sure everyone can use it. Yet since we were born we were thought to use our brain only. The kid goes to school and has to learn ABC etc etc. This then leads to the child using the brain more than the Heart.

From my perspective if our Heart was the director and more dominant one our brain would know it's proper place. Which is to take the direction from the Heart. Yet most Human the brain is the managing director and the Heart is hidden only listened to an odd time.

The brain will judge, analyze and argue continuously when this is the case. Yet when the Heart is the managing director the brain will be more, how I say, softer. It is a balance and it aint easy as in everyday life we do tend to use our brain more often than our Heart.

How does this have anything to do with god?

padma

WeeBushy wrote: »

Nope, we have a lack of belief. They're two completely different things.

O.k so a lack of belief, with an accumulated amount of knowledge surrounding this lack of belief. Or is it no belief whatsoever, but an accumulation of knowledge to back up not having any belief? Would this accumulated knowledge be recognised as a belief in a lack of belief because of the accumulated knowledge. You tell me I'm not an atheist.

padma

Improbable wrote: »

How does this have anything to do with god?

As it is the connection to the Love, guidance and proper direction which we receive all the time but aren't aware of due to our desires for proof of existence, desires for a better world etc etc etc. And unfortunately because of our clinging on to negative emotions like anger jealousy envy hatred greed cunningness selfishness etc which do create a field around our Heart stopping us from accessing it all the time, rather than choosing the Feeling of Love Joy Happiness we feel within instead. Some things need to be established within in order to gain this insight continuously.

Improbable

padma wrote: »

As it is the connection to the Love, guidance and proper direction which we receive all the time but aren't aware of due to our desires for proof of existence, desires for a better world etc etc etc. And unfortunately because of our clinging on to negative emotions like anger jealousy envy hatred greed cunningness selfishness etc which do create a field around our Heart stopping us from accessing it all the time, rather than choosing the Feeling of Love Joy Happiness we feel within instead. Some things need to be established within in order to gain this insight continuously.

Just because you say so? Or is there a reason to believe that?

padma

Improbable wrote: »

Just because you say so? Or is there a reason to believe that?

A very good point and one that I am happy to answer in this way. Do not believe what I say as what I say is essentially a story. Ask yourself, ask your own Heart. How does your Heart feel about this. How does your brain think about this.

Both will from past experiences with others have a different idea. The brain will judge analyze. The Heart will respond through feeling. So you ask yourself which do you trust more? The Heart or the Brain.

sonicthebadger*

padma wrote: »

well, you have a belief system of no belief,

This makes my brain feel an owie.

Improbable

padma wrote: »

A very good point and one that I am happy to answer in this way. Do not believe what I say as what I say is essentially a story. Ask yourself, ask your own Heart. How does your Heart feel about this. How does your brain think about this.

Both will from past experiences with others have a different idea. The brain will judge analyze. The Heart will respond through feeling. So you ask yourself which do you trust more? The Heart or the Brain.

My "heart" feeling is just another bit of my brain... So really, it's the logical part of my brain which conflicts with the illogical part of my brain. I try not to listen to the illogical bit because it's illogical.

WeeBushy

padma wrote: »

O.k so a lack of belief, with an accumulated amount of knowledge surrounding this lack of belief. Or is it no belief whatsoever, but an accumulation of knowledge to back up not having any belief? Would this accumulated knowledge be recognised as a belief in a lack of belief because of the accumulated knowledge. You tell me I'm not an atheist.

There doesn't need to be accumulated knowledge to back it up. There is no evidence or proof that has ever been presented to believe in any god. Therefore we don't. Its that simple.

There's no belief system involved at all.

padma

Improbable wrote: »

My "heart" feeling is just another bit of my brain... So really, it's the logical part of my brain which conflicts with the illogical part of my brain. I try not to listen to the illogical bit because it's illogical.

Why not take this time right NOW to truly discern what I'm getting to. first of all just relax. Inhale and exhale letting go of all tension and thoughts from your body and mind 2x3 times

Now work out this using your brain. 350 multiplied 10 minus 346 plus 53 equals. Do not worry about the answert just be aware of how your Head feels when you use your brain in this manner.

Pause

Now again relax, smile, remember the happiest moment in your life, don't worry about the details, just re-experience the happiest moment in your life, and just intend to follow it til you are fully re-experiencing the happiest moment in your life, Be aware how your body/being feels, maybe around your chest area.

I don't want to suggest anything but you tell me. Is there a difference?

padma

WeeBushy wrote: »

There doesn't need to be accumulated knowledge to back it up. There is no evidence or proof that has ever been presented to believe in any god. Therefore we don't. Its that simple.

There's no belief system involved at all.

So why do you call yourself something? Why think whatsoever about anything to do with religion and all the rules they have etc etc etc? Is it because you see the ruin of religion and what it has done to others to create some of the attrocities in the world today?

WeeBushy

padma wrote: »

Why not take this time right NOW to truly discern what I'm getting to. first of all just relax. Inhale and exhale letting go of all tension and thoughts from your body and mind 2x3 times

Now work out this using your brain. 350 multiplied 10 minus 346 plus 53 equals. Do not worry about the answert just be aware of how your Head feels when you use your brain in this manner.

Pause

Now again relax, smile, remember the happiest moment in your life, don't worry about the details, just re-experience the happiest moment in your life, and just intend to follow it til you are fully re-experiencing the happiest moment in your life, Be aware how your body/being feels, maybe around your chest area.

I don't want to suggest anything but you tell me. Is there a difference?

Of course there would be. In the first instance you're asking the brain to work out a complex maths question.

In the second instance you're asking the brain to think about sex.

One is confusing while the other is awesome. I would hope they illicit different feelings.

What's that got to do with this though:

As it is the connection to the Love, guidance and proper direction which we receive all the time but aren't aware of due to our desires for proof of existence, desires for a better world etc etc etc. And unfortunately because of our clinging on to negative emotions like anger jealousy envy hatred greed cunningness selfishness etc which do create a field around our Heart stopping us from accessing it all the time, rather than choosing the Feeling of Love Joy Happiness we feel within instead. Some things need to be established within in order to gain this insight continuously.

Sorry for butting in Improbable...

Improbable

padma wrote: »

Why not take this time right NOW to truly discern what I'm getting to. first of all just relax. Inhale and exhale letting go of all tension and thoughts from your body and mind 2x3 times

Now work out this using your brain. 350 multiplied 10 minus 346 plus 53 equals. Do not worry about the answert just be aware of how your Head feels when you use your brain in this manner.

Pause

Now again relax, smile, remember the happiest moment in your life, don't worry about the details, just re-experience the happiest moment in your life, and just intend to follow it til you are fully re-experiencing the happiest moment in your life, Be aware how your body/being feels, maybe around your chest area.

I don't want to suggest anything but you tell me. Is there a difference?

One is a mathematical calculation and the other accesses the memory. They involve 2 different sections of the brain. One has obvious emotional content, the other doesn't. Did you have a point?

Improbable

WeeBushy wrote: »

Sorry for butting in Improbable...

Feel free anytime.

padma

WeeBushy wrote: »

Of course there would be. In the first instance you're asking the brain to work out a complex maths question.

In the second instance you're asking the brain to think about sex.

One is confusing while the other is awesome. I would hope they illicit different feelings.

What's that got to do with this though:



Sorry for butting in Improbable...

It is to discern a previous question on the question of logic and feeling.

Improbable

padma wrote: »

It is to discern a previous question on the question of logic and feeling.

Still has nothing to do with god.

WeeBushy

padma wrote: »

So why do you call yourself something?

Because people like to label people.

padma wrote: »

Why think whatsoever about anything to do with religion and all the rules they have etc etc etc? Is it because you see the ruin of religion and what it has done to others to create some of the attrocities in the world today?

I think about religion for many reasons. Its unfortunately a big part of our society. It is deeply ingrained in the history of mankind. It is fascinating to me that people can be so rational generally, but incredibly irrational when it comes to religious beliefs. It is such a dangerous and evil thing.

These are just some of the reasons why I think about religion. Why do you ask?

padma

Improbable wrote: »

One is a mathematical calculation and the other accesses the memory. They involve 2 different sections of the brain. One has obvious emotional content, the other doesn't. Did you have a point?

Did you do it honestly? I asked you deliberately not to think of the situation that made you happy, but to re-experience the moment you were the happiest in your life. The point made was to discern a previous question you asked stating the brains logic and illogical thing. What I was suggesting was for you to truly discern brain logic and Heart feeling and the difference between the two. This would answer my previous points on the inner connection which I stated we all have, after you seemed to get the notion that you thought I was arrogant because I supposedly had this wonderful connection while others hadn't. It takes time.

Improbable

padma wrote: »

Did you do it honestly? I asked you deliberately not to think of the situation that made you happy, but to re-experience the moment you were the happiest in your life. The point made was to discern a previous question you asked stating the brains logic and illogical thing. What I was suggesting was for you to truly discern brain logic and Heart feeling and the difference between the two. This would answer my previous points on the inner connection which I stated we all have, after you seemed to get the notion that you thought I was arrogant because I supposedly had this wonderful connection while others hadn't. It takes time.

To someone who actually understands neurotransmitter release in the brain, dopamine levels and electrochemical responses to ligand binding to receptor proteins, the "mystery" of emotion and feeling isn't really that much of a mystery.

padma

WeeBushy wrote: »

Because people like to label people.



I think about religion for many reasons. Its unfortunately a big part of our society. It is deeply ingrained in the history of mankind. It is fascinating to me that people can be so rational generally, but incredibly irrational when it comes to religious beliefs. It is such a dangerous and evil thing.

These are just some of the reasons why I think about religion. Why do you ask?

Mainly because I agree with you, but Using my elephant theory I'd like to think that, using our brain to accumulate all these religions philosophies and belief systems is silly, whereas establishing a friendship and connection to the elephant in my eyes is more important. But not through the eyes of one but through your own Heart what I perceive to be the connection to God, which everyone has.

Turtwig

padma wrote: »

Did you do it honestly? I asked you deliberately not to think of the situation that made you happy, but to re-experience the moment you were the happiest in your life. The point made was to discern a previous question you asked stating the brains logic and illogical thing. What I was suggesting was for you to truly discern brain logic and Heart feeling and the difference between the two. This would answer my previous points on the inner connection which I stated we all have, after you seemed to get the notion that you thought I was arrogant because I supposedly had this wonderful connection while others hadn't. It takes time.

Your heart doesn't "feel" anything. And there isn't an inner connection. Oh and because of the growing trend of misconceptions on this lately here I shall add the disclaimer that this lack of dualism (I think that's what you're trying to get at) has nothing to do with the definition of atheism. You can believe in either.

dvpower

Which of them doesn't send me to hell?
I pick that one.

padma

Improbable wrote: »

To someone who actually understands neurotransmitter release in the brain, dopamine levels and electrochemical responses to ligand binding to receptor proteins, the "mystery" of emotion and feeling isn't really that much of a mystery.

Did you do it? You see what I'm getting to is LASTING happiness love joy truth etc they are feeling which come from your spiritual Heart. Emotions like anger, jealousy, greediness, cunningness they stem from your ego. Which is a side effect of your brain. So living within your Heart using your Heart more in everyday life is essential in order for your Spiritual growth/growth of your spirit. Yet I'm aware you are an atheist and this is all nonsense to you. You may even have a sneer or two about it, but that's your choice. You MAY choose this and it is probably because of your Lack of belief

ColmDawson

padma wrote: »

and this is why I shouldn't post in this forum because of the finger pointing who's got the bigger dick attitude a lot here seem to have

Let me see now. I pointed out a flaw in your analogy ... therefore I am "finger pointing" and purporting to have a larger penis than you?

Perhaps we are dealing with a logical phallusy.

padma

Malty_T wrote: »

Your heart doesn't "feel" anything. And, I'm not but in there isn't an inner connection. Oh and because of the growing trend of misconceptions on this lately here I shall add the disclaimer that this lack of dualism (I think that's what you're trying to get at) has nothing to do with the definition of atheism. You can believe in either.

So you say.

padma

ColmDawson wrote: »

Let me see now. I pointed out a flaw in your analogy ... therefore I am "finger pointing" and purporting to have a larger penis than you?

Perhaps we are dealing with a logical phallusy.

Have a hug, Im truly sorry if I offended you.

Turtwig

padma wrote: »

So you say.

Ok let's take that as a starting point. What do you consider to be the "self" or "you"?

WeeBushy

padma wrote: »

Mainly because I agree with you, but Using my elephant theory I'd like to think that, using our brain to accumulate all these religions philosophies and belief systems is silly, whereas establishing a friendship and connection to the elephant in my eyes is more important. But not through the eyes of one but through your own Heart what I perceive to be the connection to God, which everyone has.

That's lovely and all, but it brings us right back to the beginning. You can prove the elephant exists, so of course you'd want to get to know it (fascinating creatures are elephants). But you can't prove that god exists, instead you're following your irrational "Heart". No idea why you continue to call it that btw. Its simply an illogical brain function. Why would you, as a seemingly intelligent person, be so irrational in this aspect of your life but not any others?

Improbable

padma wrote: »

So you say.

Actually, you're the one making claims that go against everything we know about the world...

All of what you're saying is just anecdotal. There is no reasoning behind it at all. As such, I dismiss it's validity.