Tolls

Amtmann

Personally I am willing to pay a toll. I always do. It never crosses my mind to toll dodge because I enjoy the peace of mind that motorway-driving brings. This comes from the reliability and safety of a motorway/HQDC. Toll dodgers annoy me. And by toll dodgers, I mean people who are on a long-distance journey who get off a motorway to avoid paying 1.90 or whatever the toll is, usually less than the price of a Mars bar and coke.

Then you have fellows like this chap:

LAST Saturday I had reason to drive from Dublin to Shannon. Of course, conventional wisdom dictates that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

Not so, in the case of the National Roads Authority.

Having been relieved of my toll somewhere in the vicinity of Portlaoise, I carried on in a straight line -- only to be met by diversion signs around 10km later, taking me off the M7 back on to the old Limerick Road.

Perhaps someone in power (if anyone cares) can explain why taxpayers are being asked in advance to pay for roads that are not completed.

It is an outrage that we are being forced to pay tolls to public/private partnerships at all when we already pay road tax, but being told to pay for a road that is not finished is tantamount to highway robbery.

Michael Kelly
Dublin 15

Irish Independent

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/highway-robbery-and-road-tolls-2357095.html

This man is ill-informed about the tolling system, which isn't necessarily his fault in the first instance. But rather than writing an error-fuelled tirade and sending it into the newspaper, you think he would have googled the road in question. Instead he made an arse out of himself.

A certain cohort really resents tolls in this country. If they choose not to use the tolled section, fine: just shut up about it and stick to the old trunk roads whose bends and potholes inspired satirical songs in the 80s and 90s. I'll reserve the right to call you a miser who puts your own safety at risk by stubbornly taking to the backroads, all for the sake of avoiding what is effectively less than the price of a bag of chips.

[/rant]

Deedsie

Furet wrote: »

Personally I am willing to pay a toll. I always do. It never crosses my mind to toll dodge because I enjoy the piece of mind that motorway-driving brings. This comes from the reliability and safety of a motorway/HQDC. Toll dodgers annoy me. And by toll dodgers, I mean people who are on a long-distance journey who get off a motorway to avoid paying 1.90 or whatever the toll is, usually less than the price of a Mars bar and coke.

Then you have fellows like this chap:



http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/highway-robbery-and-road-tolls-2357095.html

This man is ill-informed about the tolling system, which isn't necessarily his fault in the first instance. But rather than writing an error-fuelled tirade and sending it into the newspaper, you think he would have googled the road in question rather than making an arse out of himself.

A certain cohort really resents tolls in this country. If they choose not to use the tolled section, fine: just shut up about it and stick to the old trunk roads whose bends and potholes inspired satirical songs in the 80s and 90s. I'll reserve the right to call you a miser who puts your own safety at risk by stubbornly taking to the backroads, all for the sake of avoiding what is effectively less than the price of a bag of chips.

[/rant]

I live in Nenagh, I work in Portlaoise. €18 per week in tolls it would cost for me to use 30 km of motorway. No thanks. I'll happily pay it when the castletown to Nenagh road is complete. Untill then I will take my chances on the N7

Amtmann

Deedsie wrote: »

I live in Nenagh, I work in Portlaoise. €18 per week in tolls it would cost for me to use 30 km of motorway. No thanks. I'll happily pay it when the castletown to Nenagh road is complete. Untill then I will take my chances on the N7

I'm not sure I'd consider Nenagh to Portlaoise particularly long-distance. I'm primarily talking about people making substantial journeys.

Bards

here is a perfect example of someone travelling long distance, wanting to bypass waterford and then not using the bypass because there is a toll.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056035587&page=2

Tech3

Personally I dont mind tolls as long as they are evenly placed out on all the inter-urban routes. It provides better infrastructure and the alternative old N route is available to those who dont want to drive it because of the toll.

It is not viable for a daily commute IMO. It's largely based for long distance traffic. For example driving Cork-Galway it would be much easier using the N18 Limerick Tunnel rather than wasting 15-20 mins driving through the city relief road.

billymitchell

How do you guys feel about the Toll on the M50 then considering its not really a substantial route?

996tt

Furet your argument is less valid if your journey see you head west.

I drive from dublin to galway and back each weekend, so in tolls thats:
M50 * 2 = EUR4
M4 *2 = EUR5.80
M6 * 2 = EUR3.80
Total = EUR13.60

Personally I think that is a disgrace, combine the above costs with the fact that it costs me about EUR70 in petrol(sitting at 130kph), est that the government are getting around EUR30 from that, annual road tax of EUR1,566 so does it annoy you that I choose to avoid the enfield toll(which for some crazy reason is the only toll that costs this much)

I get off the motorway at kilkock and rejoin at kinegad, old road is good and I stop for petrol on the way. So by avoiding one toll I am saving over EUR200 a year.

While the roads are great and all that they have really screwed the people heading to galway esp if you compare it to what the waterford people have to pay

marmurr1916

You choose to drive from Dublin to Galway every weekend and you complain about the expense?

Ever heard of trains or buses?

NinjaTruncs

996tt wrote: »

Furet your argument is less valid if your journey see you head west.

I drive from dublin to galway and back each weekend, so in tolls thats:
M50 * 2 = EUR4
M4 *2 = EUR5.80
M6 * 2 = EUR3.80
Total = EUR13.60

Personally I think that is a disgrace, combine the above costs with the fact that it costs me about EUR70 in petrol(sitting at 130kph), est that the government are getting around EUR30 from that, annual road tax of EUR1,566 so does it annoy you that I choose to avoid the enfield toll(which for some crazy reason is the only toll that costs this much)

I get off the motorway at kilkock and rejoin at kinegad, old road is good and I stop for petrol on the way. So by avoiding one toll I am saving over EUR700 a year.

While the roads are great and all that they have really screwed the people heading to galway esp if you compare it to what the waterford people have to pay

I drove from Paris to Calais which is about 3/4 of your return trip to Galway and paid over €20 in tolls, i think it was actually about €25. Petrol wasn't any cheaper there either. No idea if France has Motor tax or Road tax.

If you don't want to pay the tolls you can always advoid them and save yourself the money.

tharlear

Sorry if this has been covered before

But what is the cost of a return trip to Dublin Airport (DA) on each of the interurbans

Without prepaid tags
Galway DA EUR13.60 according to 966tt
Belfast DA? Euro5.80 (not including m50 tool naturally, Belfast to south Dublin EUR9.80)
Cork DA?
Limerick DA?
Waterford DA?

With prepaid tags
Galway DA
Belfast DA?
Cork DA?
Limerick DA?
Waterford DA?

kippy

Galway to Belfast via mostly M/A and a small section of N is €9.70 each way without using any prepaid tags etc.

A small price to pay for a hassle/fatigue free 3.5 hour Journey.


I dont get people who dodge tolls either on long journeys, it is rarely ever worth it.

996tt

marmurr1916 wrote: »

You choose to drive from Dublin to Galway every weekend and you complain about the expense?

Ever heard of trains or buses?

Dont choose, public transport is not convenient for me

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

I drove from Paris to Calais which is about 3/4 of your return trip to Galway and paid over €20 in tolls, i think it was actually about €25. Petrol wasn't any cheaper there either. No idea if France has Motor tax or Road tax.

If you don't want to pay the tolls you can always advoid them and save yourself the money.

Different country nothing to do with my argument.

My argument is why is the toll at enfield EUR2.90 when no other toll is this expensive(ignoring the port tunnel) and esp when you consider that you can drive from Waterford to dublin with no toll. The enfield section is just as busy as most other toll sections and the PPP section of it is very short(only about 30ks) when compared to other PPP motorways yet is more expensive

Getting of the motorway doesnt bother me too much, as i said old road is good, rarely congested and I get some petrol. Only adds about 10mins onto my journey even factoring getting petrol and as an added bonus the rules fo the road for a single carriageway are pretty straightforward so even the average Irish person can understand them unlike motorways.

Bazzo

I don't have any major problem with tolls and whenever I do use the motorway I certainly don't make any attempt to avoid them.

What I DO have a problem with is that many people are almost forced to use the motorways due to the fact that despite paying road tax, a LOT of our national roads are in an absolutely terrible state. Easily some of the worst in Europe, I'd say.

Cionád

996tt wrote: »

Different country nothing to do with my argument.

I think the point is even at 2.90 for a 36km section of motorway is good value when compared internationally.

I've driven from Galway to Dublin Airport in under two hours, on a far safer road for a combined toll of €6.80 one way, that is good value imo, less than one days parking at the airport, and keeping a steady pace on the motorway, likely a good saving in fuel consumption.

996tt

Cionád wrote: »

I think the point is even at 2.90 for a 36km section of motorway is good value when compared internationally.

I've driven from Galway to Dublin Airport in under two hours, on a far safer road for a combined toll of €6.80 one way, that is good value imo, less than one days parking at the airport, and keeping a steady pace on the motorway, likely a good saving in fuel consumption.

But its a different country so different rules, if you are going to go down the road of comparing international tolls why not compare it to the UK(ignoring their 4 tolled roads) or germany where there are no tolls.

All im saying its all well and good it you do an odd journey to the airport but add it up over a year and 3 tolls is allot esp when you add in all the other stealth car taxes out there

nordydan

tharlear wrote: »

Sorry if this has been covered before

But what is the cost of a return trip to Dublin Airport (DA) on each of the interurbans

Without prepaid tags
Galway DA EUR13.60 according to 966tt
Belfast DA? Euro5.80 (not including m50 tool naturally, Belfast to south Dublin EUR9.80)
Cork DA?
Limerick DA?
Waterford DA?

With prepaid tags
Galway DA
Belfast DA?
Cork DA?
Limerick DA?
Waterford DA?

I think Belfast is just €3.80

slinky2000

Limerick to Belfast Return

Portlaoise Toll * 2 = 3.60e
m50 Toll * 2 = 6.00e
M1 Toll *2 = 3.60e

Total 13.20e With an eflow tag it's 11.20e


I think that's correct

Amtmann

slinky2000 wrote: »

m50 Toll * 2 = 6.00e

€4 if you have a tag, not €6.

tharlear

So this is what I can figure out so far

Without prepaid tags
Galway Dublimn Airport
M6 = EUR1.90
M4 = EUR 2.90
M50 = EUR 3.00
Total EUR7.80
Return X2 EUR15.60

Belfast Dublin Airport (NO m50 toll :-) )
M1 = EUR1.90
Total EUR1.90
Returnx2 EUR 3.80


Cork Dublin Airport

Limerick Dublin Airport
M7 = EUR1.80
m50 = EUR3.00
Total EUR4.80
ReturnX2 EUR9.60

Waterford Dublin
M9 =EUR 0.00
M50 = EUR3.00
Total EUR3.00
Returnx2 EUR6.00

With prepaid tags
Galway Dublin Airport 10% reduction for prepaid tags on m4/m6 (not sure if this is correct)
M6 = EUR1.71
M4 = EUR 2.61
M50 = EUR 2.00
Total EUR6.32
Return X2 EUR12.62

Belfast Dublin Airport
M1 = EUR1.90
Total EUR1.90
Returnx2 EUR 3.80


Cork Dublin Airport

Limerick Dublin Airport
M7 = EUR1.80
m50 = EUR2.00
Total EUR3.80
ReturnX2 EUR7.60

Waterford Dublin
M9 =EUR 0.00
M50 = EUR2.00
Total EUR2.00
Returnx2 EUR4.00

L1011

tharlear wrote: »

Galway Dublin Airport 10% reduction for prepaid tags on m4/m6 (not sure if this is correct)

Its not correct.

996tt

MYOB wrote: »

Its not correct.

Sort of is, Gal-Ballinasloe toll operator give you 10% off when you buy EUR40 worth, only works on this section though and does not work in the "tag lane"

wellbutty

Theres no road/motor tax in France but their tolls make the motorways absolutely unusable for everyday use. Maybe we need to do what they do and implement distance-based tolls via barriers/collection points on every on/off ramp. That'll be the end of toll-dodgers. I've been there twice this year, you could easily pay €40 doing Limoges to Calais...one way. If we want decent roads, we're gonna have to pay for them....Irish people need to get this into their heads.

L1011

996tt wrote: »

Sort of is, Gal-Ballinasloe toll operator give you 10% off when you buy EUR40 worth, only works on this section though and does not work in the "tag lane"

All barriered tolls give you 10% off for bulk buying, its the law. But its not on tags (except Fermoy's, on their own tag only) which is what was said...

Carawaystick

996tt wrote: »

germany where there are no tolls.

HGV's are tolled on Autobahnnnen.


I see none of the anti-toll posters have placed any value on safety or the time/fuel saving.
I'd say a very large proportion of the reduction in traffic deaths is due to the Motorway network.
And as most downgraded old N-routes now have 80 limits vs 120 on most motorways as well as extra stops on the non-m route, the time saved is probably considerable. If you are earning 12 euros an hour, ten mins is the price of a toll. If you earn more, a shorter time saving pays.

Stinicker

I drove the section of old N7 up around Durrow and Abbeyleix the last day coming from the Ploughing, the amount of lorries on it was unbelievable, the only traffic that wasn't local was long distance trucks. Surely concessions should be given for those driving say from Cork to Belfast in which you get a reduction on the tolls for using all of them.

limklad

I have done the same trip as that guy in the Letter Op is talking about with several trips to Dublin before and after the Portlaoise to Borris in Ossory Motorway open. I am finding no difference in time on either route. There is less traffic now on the old road (80 km) which has helped on the time travelled on that road and it is shorter as well.
Old road is 24Km versus 29km Motorway (Included 1km 80kph with extra roundabouts). I have used my gps to record all road trips up and down the country.
Until the Neangh to Borris in Ossory motorway opens I still be using the old road. It is a waste of time paying the €1:80 and the cost of burning extra fuel for extra distance at Motorway speeds at Portlaoise until the last strength of road is opened. According to my calculations I should be seeing slight time savings. In reality I am not seeing that to justify the cost.

On the Limerick Tunnel however there is a huge time savings and fuel cost savings and I do use that when I need to cross the Shannon (bypassing the troublesome city), except get to Thomond Park where I walk across the Shannon.

996tt

Carawaystick wrote: »

HGV's are tolled on Autobahnnnen.


I see none of the anti-toll posters have placed any value on safety or the time/fuel saving.
I'd say a very large proportion of the reduction in traffic deaths is due to the Motorway network.
And as most downgraded old N-routes now have 80 limits vs 120 on most motorways as well as extra stops on the non-m route, the time saved is probably considerable. If you are earning 12 euros an hour, ten mins is the price of a toll. If you earn more, a shorter time saving pays.

i dont drive a truck.

Fuel saving is not huge 130kph on the motorway vs a pretty steady 90kph on the old road.

marmurr1916

996tt wrote: »

i dont drive a truck.

Fuel saving is not huge 130kph on the motorway vs a pretty steady 90kph on the old road.

You could always reduce your speed to stay within the speed limit of 120km/h

And if you're going on a long-distance journey, consider getting a train or a bus - usually works out cheaper than petrol, tolls, wear and tear etc.

Just because you have a car doesn't mean you have to drive it everywhere.

If I go on a long-distance journey, I usually take the bus. Takes a lot longer but I don't have to deal with the stress of driving, I can read a book and I don't have to pay for petrol.

If you go from Cork to Dublin, you can get a return fare from around €20. Similar fares are available on most routes to Dublin.

You can get a return fare from most larger towns and cities to Dublin from as low as €20 with IE if you book online.

Stinicker

wellbutty wrote: »

Theres no road/motor tax in France but their tolls make the motorways absolutely unusable for everyday use. Maybe we need to do what they do and implement distance-based tolls via barriers/collection points on every on/off ramp. That'll be the end of toll-dodgers. I've been there twice this year, you could easily pay €40 doing Limoges to Calais...one way. If we want decent roads, we're gonna have to pay for them....Irish people need to get this into their heads.

However France has decent non-Motorway roads, Remember when Jeremy Clarkson, May and Hammond drove from Geneva to Blackpool on a tank of Diesel each, Hammond took the French non-Motorway roads and reached Blackpool first in his VW Polo. In Ireland we do not have the option to drive any sort of distance without resorting to the motorways as they are the best roads in Ireland.

The Autobahn and AutoRoute in France are about facilitating Industry to grow the economy, they also come in very handy for Motoring. Both Countries have good public transport systems, I can drive from Kerry to Dublin on the Motorway faster than on the train and we have no rail freight.

ALL HGVs pay for the Autobahnen as do Motorists with their €1.47/litre petrol over there, but oh what a pleasure it is to sink the shoe and hear that mighty engine roar and climb above 250km/h.

Our Motorway system is fine but I do think lorries should be inventiveised to use the Motorway and stop toll dodging. However less lorries means less morons in the Fast lane allowing me to zoom on by at 200km/h.

Amtmann

From what I understand, tolls are tax-deductable to the tune of 60% for businesses as things stand.

996tt

Furet wrote: »

From what I understand, tolls are tax-deductable to the tune of 60% for businesses as things stand.

depends on the business, few examples:

VAT Registered company:
-EUR100 in tolls cost approx EUR72(after claiming 21% VAT and writing off against Corp Tax(you have to be making profits)

Butcher company(not allowed to be vat registered):
-EUR100 in tolls cost EUR87.50

VAT registered Sole Trader:
-EUR100 in tolls real cost may be as little as EUR40(claim 21% the balance of EUR82 reduces income tax bill, so effectively a EUR40 write off)

Loss making farmer:
-EUR100 costs EUR100.

limklad

marmurr1916 wrote: »

You could always reduce your speed to stay within the speed limit of 120km/h

And if you're going on a long-distance journey, consider getting a train or a bus - usually works out cheaper than petrol, tolls, wear and tear etc.

Just because you have a car doesn't mean you have to drive it everywhere.

If I go on a long-distance journey, I usually take the bus. Takes a lot longer but I don't have to deal with the stress of driving, I can read a book and I don't have to pay for petrol.

If you go from Cork to Dublin, you can get a return fare from around €20. Similar fares are available on most routes to Dublin.

You can get a return fare from most larger towns and cities to Dublin from as low as €20 with IE if you book online.

Over the years, I have looked several times at getting Trains/Buses up to to Dublin on Match days and other events and visiting Family up there.
The Public Transport is not convenience in either Time (Travel) or return times required or costs. I have done the Calculations in cost. There is no benefit using intercity public Transport versus my own car and that include parking and LUAS/DART on part of the car travel costs.

When I travel in other European Countries, I always for the most time used Public Transport while on holidays, they run more often and very cost effective in comparison to here. I only use hired cars for Holidays where public Transport is not great and for work if Time commitments cannot afford me to use public Transport depending on the locations for meetings, Training/Conference events. The vast majority of my foreign travel is public Transport.

I cannot depend on Limerick City buses for evening Travel (after rush hour - little traffic) into the city for nights out never mind any Match days in Thomond Park or the Gaelic Grounds. Only during working hours can you depend on the buses to arrive within 5 mins of the arrival Time they meant to arrive. Guess what I cannot use it as I am working at those times unless i am off work!!! It is a hit or miss any other time (evening or weekends).

There is a huge major difference between here in Ireland and other European Countries when it comes to Public Transport using the following criteria of Time, frequency and costs and including public transport in cities smaller than Limerick and large towns.
I have even used public Transport in Turkey between Villages and small towns which are far more reliable than here and they have no fixed timetables only word of mouth!!! They were far more pleasurable to travel in than city buses here.

It only recent years that price for the Train is coming down.
The problems with Trains on Match days (evening) Leave Dublin at 23:00 and arrive in Limerick at 1:20am, never mind the time it takes to go from the Train station to home, I am usually in bed an hour earlier than the train to arrive in Limerick, when I take the car as I can leave earlier, travel faster than the Train and be home in bed for less than €30 euro, Toll included.

veryangryman

The problem i see with public transport vs car is simple and best explained by my own motto

If im travelling alone to Dublin/Airport or travelling within other countries, ill use buses/trains. Works out cheaper and generally handier if im not in a major hurry and am oganised

If i have even 1 passenger, its not worth our while getting bus
If im going to a different part of Ireland, its not worth our while getting bus

Even alone (in my case from Athlone), i can go to Liffey Valley and back for around 20 Euro driving. If i wanted to do the same by bus, id have to pay around 15 return to get into city then another bus out for 3-4 quid return. Sure is a tiny bit cheaper but whats the point with all the fannying around youd do waiting for buses

flazio

At the end of the day it's all about what tolls give value for money. Let's take a trip from Dublin airport to Galway city as an example. Galway resident so wouldn't be a regular user and would just pay tolls on demand rather then tagging.
M50 Toll is reasonable as the alternative route could take up to 2 hours to negotiate.
M4 Enfield Toll is a bit steep for what is a very small saving of time. The old N4 stays pretty close to the motorway the whole time. And while some may argue the toll is just the price of a cup of coffee, at least you can pull over in Enfield or Kinnegad and get a cup of coffee rather then ploughing on.
M6 toll however is reasonable because the old N6 did go a fair bit south to take in Loughrea and Craughwell on it's route, the new route almost halves the time between Ballinasloe and Galway and is €1 cheaper then either the M4 or M50 tolls.

I do think it's a bit silly to toll a route that isn't even finished yet so the toll on the M7 sohould have been implied until the Castletown Nenagh stretch was completed. Am I right in thinking, aside from the M50 which is in fact a bridge toll, that the stretch of M7/M8 that is tolled is the shortest stretch of toll motorway in the country?

Amtmann

flazio wrote: »

I do think it's a bit silly to toll a route that isn't even finished yet so the toll on the M7 sohould have been implied until the Castletown Nenagh stretch was completed.

See, this is what tripped the man who wrote into the Independent up. The M7/M8 PPP scheme is complete. The M7/M8 PPP scheme is tolled. It doesn't matter a hoot to the M7/M8 PPP scheme operators whether or not Castletown to Limerick is finished or not: if you want to drive their section of motorway, you pay for it. The toll is only for that section, not for any other.

It was the same with the Fermoy Bypass when that opened in 2006 and no one suggested that its operators delay taking tolls until 2010 when the M8 was finished.

Am I right in thinking, aside from the M50 which is in fact a bridge toll, that the stretch of M7/M8 that is tolled is the shortest stretch of toll motorway in the country?

The M8 Fermoy Bypass is shorter, as is the N25 Waterford City Bypass.

The combined length of the M7 and the M8 leg on the PPP scheme is 40km.

Carawaystick

marmurr1916 wrote: »

If you go from Cork to Dublin, you can get a return fare from around €20. Similar fares are available on most routes to Dublin.

You can get a return fare from most larger towns and cities to Dublin from as low as €20 with IE if you book online.

At certain times only. Last time I looked to go from Dublin to Cork it was 71 euros. Ryanair charged 34.


The public transport costs also stack up if there is more than one person travelling.

marmurr1916

Carawaystick wrote: »

At certain times only.Last time I looked to go from Dublin to Cork it was 71 euros.

Obviously they're not going to charge such low fares at peak times. But if you can travel off peak, it's excellent value for money.

Carawaystick wrote: »

Ryanair charged 34.

Dirt cheap but I'd prefer to get the bus. All the hassle of getting to/from both airport, plus the security queues = pain in the butt!

Carawaystick wrote: »

The public transport costs also stack up if there is more than one person travelling.

True, but I get the impression that a lot of posters here spend a lot of time driving solo.

It would be great if the German system of small group tickets was introduced into Ireland.

You can buy a ticket, valid for a full day's travel within one of the lander (eg the Bavarian Bayern-Ticket), for up to 5 people to travel on.

It's valid on all forms of public transport - regional and local trains, trams, buses, underground - within Bavaria or whichever state you buy it in.

All day public transport for 5 people for €28 - what a bargain!

Ren2k7

I think the best system to implement would be M50 style barrier free toll gantries at 10 km intervals along the entire motorway network. (bear with me for a moment)

Charge motorists something like 20 cent for every toll they go through. This number isn't set in stone but it should be low.
The cost of installing such a system nationwide would be offset by the current costs of manning and maintaining these toll plazas. The system would be operated by a single operator who would be owned by the current operators along with the NRA.

It would have ownership and responsibility for the entire national motorway network. Perhaps it would be called Bothar Eireann. It would operate with a commercial remit so future motorway projects would be funded with the profits from tolls collected across the network.

This would be a fairer system in my opinion as someone travelling 100 km would pay 2 euro but someone travelling 10 km would only pay 20 cent.

Payment could be like your mobile, i.e, pay as you drive or a flat rate per year for heavy motorway users of something like 1000 euro (again figure is not set in stone) per year for unlimited usage of the motorway network. Could be beneficial to long distance hauliers to go flat rate and short distance commuters to go pay as you drive.

Think off all the lost revenue from all the motorists travelling from the M3/M50 roundabout to the airport or from Bray to the M4/M50 junction.

kippy

Ren2k7 wrote: »

I think the best system to implement would be M50 style barrier free toll gantries at 10 km intervals along the entire motorway network. (bear with me for a moment)

Charge motorists something like 20 cent for every toll they go through. This number isn't set in stone but it should be low.
The cost of installing such a system nationwide would be offset by the current costs of manning and maintaining these toll plazas. The system would be operated by a single operator who would be owned by the current operators along with the NRA.

It would have ownership and responsibility for the entire national motorway network. Perhaps it would be called Bothar Eireann. It would operate with a commercial remit so future motorway projects would be funded with the profits from tolls collected across the network.

This would be a fairer system in my opinion as someone travelling 100 km would pay 2 euro but someone travelling 10 km would only pay 20 cent.

Payment could be like your mobile, i.e, pay as you drive or a flat rate per year for heavy motorway users of something like 1000 euro (again figure is not set in stone) per year for unlimited usage of the motorway network. Could be beneficial to long distance hauliers to go flat rate and short distance commuters to go pay as you drive.

Think off all the lost revenue from all the motorists travelling from the M3/M50 roundabout to the airport or from Bray to the M4/M50 junction.

Probably a decent-ish idea in principle but I would guess that the cost to actually put in these "unmanned" tolls and indeed the cost of maintaining them/providing support would be fairly high (I dont actually have any ideas of the costs but making a guess here)

Ren2k7

kippy wrote: »

Probably a decent-ish idea in principle but I would guess that the cost to actually put in these "unmanned" tolls and indeed the cost of maintaining them/providing support would be fairly high (I dont actually have any ideas of the costs but making a guess here)

That's an interesting point. I wonder does anyone have information on the cost of maintaining these e tolls. I would have assumed that the cost of these would be less than having to man and look after toll plazas.

Alun

Ren2k7 wrote: »

I think the best system to implement would be M50 style barrier free toll gantries at 10 km intervals along the entire motorway network. (bear with me for a moment)

...

Doesn't sound too unlike the system the Germans put in to toll their autobahn network for truck traffic. However even the normally efficient Germans managed to mess up that one and the project went way over budget and was plagued with numerous technical problems, so I can't see that being a goer here.

limklad

Alun wrote: »

Doesn't sound too unlike the system the Germans put in to toll their autobahn network for truck traffic. However even the normally efficient Germans managed to mess up that one and the project went way over budget and was plagued with numerous technical problems, so I can't see that being a goer here.

The Efficient Germans will resolve the problem in Time and get maintenance costs down and when they do, we can copied it then, and cost will be less for us to maintain,

gbee

Furet wrote: »

A certain cohort really resents tolls in this country. If they choose not to use the tolled section, fine: just shut up about it [/rant]

I won't shut up about it, too much has been covered up by people NOT speaking out and then those that do are ignored ...

No Sir. Down with ALL tolls.

I pay road tax ~ I want my roads. Simple! I don't WANT to PAY a private company. A company that may in NAMA now anyway but the TOLL company is a different company altogether.

No Sir, Down with ALL tolls, it's just another form of corruption in this country.

Amtmann

gbee wrote: »

I won't shut up about it, too much has been covered up by people NOT speaking out and then those that do are ignored ...

Well, unless you are going to make valid points, you can roar and shout about tolls all you like, but no one has to take you seriously.

No Sir. Down with ALL tolls.

No need to call me 'sir'.

I pay road tax ~ I want my roads. Simple!

There is no such thing as road tax. There is motor tax, but that isn't road tax, and to conflate the two is just wrong. Now, would it make sense if motor tax was used specifically for roads? Probably.

Anyway, you've got roads galore for free now. You've got the Jack Lynch tunnel, you've got the M8 from Dunkettle to Watergrasshill and from North Fermoy all the way to Abbeyleix. Then you've got the M7 from Portlaoise all the way to the M50 toll-free. That's just the Dublin-Cork corridor.

I don't WANT to PAY a private company.

Then don't and drive through Rathcormac, Fermoy, Durrow and Abbeyleix; drive through Dublin, Limerick and Waterford city centres; drive through them and waste your time and petrol.

No Sir, Down with ALL tolls, it's just another form of corruption in this country.

How is it corruption? Be specific.

KevR

I don't avoid tolls but I am a little resentful of the M4 toll. If I had to drive the M4 route on a regular basis I probably would dodge it on principle.

I'll be passing through the M6 toll twice daily starting in a couple of weeks. Don't mind paying it and won't be dodging it. Huge time saving and the route is s lot shorter + a lot more fuel effecient than the alternative route. It would probably cost as much to use the alternative route with increased fuel costs. The M6 is also a lot safer..

I just need to decide on which tag to get. I'm leaning towards an eFlow tag at the moment but I still have to review a couple of my options. The tag from the M4 toll operator is more expensive to buy/rent than any other tag as far as I can see :rolleyes:

996tt

KevR wrote: »

I don't avoid tolls but I am a little resentful of the M4 toll. If I had to drive the M4 route on a regular basis I probably would dodge it on principle.

I'll be passing through the M6 toll twice daily starting in a couple of weeks. Don't mind paying it and won't be dodging it. Huge time saving and the route is s lot shorter + a lot more fuel effecient than the alternative route. It would probably cost as much to use the alternative route with increased fuel costs. The M6 is also a lot safer..

Agree 100% the toll on the M6 is well worth paying, the enfield toll, not so much.

KevR wrote: »

I just need to decide on which tag to get. I'm leaning towards an eFlow tag at the moment but I still have to review a couple of my options. The tag from the M4 toll operator is more expensive to buy/rent than any other tag as far as I can see :rolleyes:

Try and get the tag that beeps when it is read, mine is easy pass and doesnt beep and for some odd reason it refuses to work now and again so im always nervous as I approach the barrier in the express lane that the barrier will not lift

bog master

Furet wrote: »

There is no such thing as road tax. There is motor tax, but that isn't road tax, and to conflate the two is just wrong. Now, would it make sense if motor tax was used specifically for roads? Probably.

I must respectively disagree there is no such thing as "ROAD TAX"
I can buy 10-20-30 Motor Vehicles. I am only obliged to pay Motor/Road Tax, the tax that when you pay you recieve a disc, when I use that vehicle on a Public Road.

I could be a quarry owner and have tipper trucks. JCB's ect working in the quarry, if they dont go on a public road, NO TAX CERT needed.

I could be a farmer with tractors/4x4's/JCB's working on the farm, if they dont go on a public road, NO TAX CERT needed.

I can buy a vintage car to restore, I dont pay any Road Tax until I decide
I want to drive that vehicle on a public road.

Does the OPW at Newgrange, with their minibus service to the actual sites of Newgrange and Knowth pay Road Tax? I honestly dont know, last time there, I did not look, but from memory they did not travel on public roads. However I stand to be corrected.

Again, I have no answers, but years ago in Fota, plenty of vehicles within the Park, if my memory serves me correctly, there were no tax discs, as they were used within private property.

So, in my opinion, the current regime does charge a road tax, not a motor tax.

KevR

996tt wrote: »

Try and get the tag that beeps when it is read, mine is easy pass and doesnt beep and for some odd reason it refuses to work now and again so im always nervous as I approach the barrier in the express lane that the barrier will not lift

Anyone know if the eFlow tags beep?

Ren2k7

bog master wrote: »

I must respectively disagree there is no such thing as "ROAD TAX"
I can buy 10-20-30 Motor Vehicles. I am only obliged to pay Motor/Road Tax, the tax that when you pay you recieve a disc, when I use that vehicle on a Public Road.

I could be a quarry owner and have tipper trucks. JCB's ect working in the quarry, if they dont go on a public road, NO TAX CERT needed.

I could be a farmer with tractors/4x4's/JCB's working on the farm, if they dont go on a public road, NO TAX CERT needed.

I can buy a vintage car to restore, I dont pay any Road Tax until I decide
I want to drive that vehicle on a public road.

Does the OPW at Newgrange, with their minibus service to the actual sites of Newgrange and Knowth pay Road Tax? I honestly dont know, last time there, I did not look, but from memory they did not travel on public roads. However I stand to be corrected.

Again, I have no answers, but years ago in Fota, plenty of vehicles within the Park, if my memory serves me correctly, there were no tax discs, as they were used within private property.

So, in my opinion, the current regime does charge a road tax, not a motor tax.

True, but if i remember correctly a recent government panel recommended that this loophole be closed with all vehicles, regardless of whether they use a public road or not, would be obliged to have motor tax.

I wouldn't be surprised if such a move was brought in by lenny in the December budget, along with crippling hikes in excise duty on fuel.

L1011

996tt wrote: »

Try and get the tag that beeps when it is read, mine is easy pass and doesnt beep and for some odd reason it refuses to work now and again so im always nervous as I approach the barrier in the express lane that the barrier will not lift

Kapsch tags, as issued by most people including Easytrip who took over from Easypass beep - but only when told to by the toll plaza. They never beep at the M8 Fermoy for instance, even when working. This could be whats happening to you

The only other type of tag issued here now are the massive Melodhy bricks used by eFlow and possibly others. Dunno if it can beep. There may be legacy units too.

Tech3

KevR wrote: »

Anyone know if the eFlow tags beep?

The eFlow tag does beep, I have one and used it several times on the M50 and N18 Limerick Tunnel without any issues.