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Tolls

Amtmann

Personally I am willing to pay a toll. I always do. It never crosses my mind to toll dodge because I enjoy the peace of mind that motorway-driving brings. This comes from the reliability and safety of a motorway/HQDC. Toll dodgers annoy me. And by toll dodgers, I mean people who are on a long-distance journey who get off a motorway to avoid paying 1.90 or whatever the toll is, usually less than the price of a Mars bar and coke.

Then you have fellows like this chap:

LAST Saturday I had reason to drive from Dublin to Shannon. Of course, conventional wisdom dictates that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

Not so, in the case of the National Roads Authority.

Having been relieved of my toll somewhere in the vicinity of Portlaoise, I carried on in a straight line -- only to be met by diversion signs around 10km later, taking me off the M7 back on to the old Limerick Road.

Perhaps someone in power (if anyone cares) can explain why taxpayers are being asked in advance to pay for roads that are not completed.

It is an outrage that we are being forced to pay tolls to public/private partnerships at all when we already pay road tax, but being told to pay for a road that is not finished is tantamount to highway robbery.

Michael Kelly
Dublin 15

Irish Independent

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/highway-robbery-and-road-tolls-2357095.html

This man is ill-informed about the tolling system, which isn't necessarily his fault in the first instance. But rather than writing an error-fuelled tirade and sending it into the newspaper, you think he would have googled the road in question. Instead he made an arse out of himself.

A certain cohort really resents tolls in this country. If they choose not to use the tolled section, fine: just shut up about it and stick to the old trunk roads whose bends and potholes inspired satirical songs in the 80s and 90s. I'll reserve the right to call you a miser who puts your own safety at risk by stubbornly taking to the backroads, all for the sake of avoiding what is effectively less than the price of a bag of chips.

[/rant]

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Deedsie

Furet wrote: »

Personally I am willing to pay a toll. I always do. It never crosses my mind to toll dodge because I enjoy the piece of mind that motorway-driving brings. This comes from the reliability and safety of a motorway/HQDC. Toll dodgers annoy me. And by toll dodgers, I mean people who are on a long-distance journey who get off a motorway to avoid paying 1.90 or whatever the toll is, usually less than the price of a Mars bar and coke.

Then you have fellows like this chap:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/highway-robbery-and-road-tolls-2357095.html

This man is ill-informed about the tolling system, which isn't necessarily his fault in the first instance. But rather than writing an error-fuelled tirade and sending it into the newspaper, you think he would have googled the road in question rather than making an arse out of himself.

A certain cohort really resents tolls in this country. If they choose not to use the tolled section, fine: just shut up about it and stick to the old trunk roads whose bends and potholes inspired satirical songs in the 80s and 90s. I'll reserve the right to call you a miser who puts your own safety at risk by stubbornly taking to the backroads, all for the sake of avoiding what is effectively less than the price of a bag of chips.

[/rant]

I live in Nenagh, I work in Portlaoise. €18 per week in tolls it would cost for me to use 30 km of motorway. No thanks. I'll happily pay it when the castletown to Nenagh road is complete. Untill then I will take my chances on the N7

Amtmann

Deedsie wrote: »

I live in Nenagh, I work in Portlaoise. €18 per week in tolls it would cost for me to use 30 km of motorway. No thanks. I'll happily pay it when the castletown to Nenagh road is complete. Untill then I will take my chances on the N7

I'm not sure I'd consider Nenagh to Portlaoise particularly long-distance. I'm primarily talking about people making substantial journeys.

Bards

here is a perfect example of someone travelling long distance, wanting to bypass waterford and then not using the bypass because there is a toll.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056035587&page=2

Tech3

Personally I dont mind tolls as long as they are evenly placed out on all the inter-urban routes. It provides better infrastructure and the alternative old N route is available to those who dont want to drive it because of the toll.

It is not viable for a daily commute IMO. It's largely based for long distance traffic. For example driving Cork-Galway it would be much easier using the N18 Limerick Tunnel rather than wasting 15-20 mins driving through the city relief road.

billymitchell

How do you guys feel about the Toll on the M50 then considering its not really a substantial route?

996tt

Furet your argument is less valid if your journey see you head west.

I drive from dublin to galway and back each weekend, so in tolls thats:
M50 * 2 = EUR4
M4 *2 = EUR5.80
M6 * 2 = EUR3.80
Total = EUR13.60

Personally I think that is a disgrace, combine the above costs with the fact that it costs me about EUR70 in petrol(sitting at 130kph), est that the government are getting around EUR30 from that, annual road tax of EUR1,566 so does it annoy you that I choose to avoid the enfield toll(which for some crazy reason is the only toll that costs this much)

I get off the motorway at kilkock and rejoin at kinegad, old road is good and I stop for petrol on the way. So by avoiding one toll I am saving over EUR200 a year.

While the roads are great and all that they have really screwed the people heading to galway esp if you compare it to what the waterford people have to pay

marmurr1916

You choose to drive from Dublin to Galway every weekend and you complain about the expense?

Ever heard of trains or buses?

NinjaTruncs

996tt wrote: »

Furet your argument is less valid if your journey see you head west.

I drive from dublin to galway and back each weekend, so in tolls thats:
M50 * 2 = EUR4
M4 *2 = EUR5.80
M6 * 2 = EUR3.80
Total = EUR13.60

Personally I think that is a disgrace, combine the above costs with the fact that it costs me about EUR70 in petrol(sitting at 130kph), est that the government are getting around EUR30 from that, annual road tax of EUR1,566 so does it annoy you that I choose to avoid the enfield toll(which for some crazy reason is the only toll that costs this much)

I get off the motorway at kilkock and rejoin at kinegad, old road is good and I stop for petrol on the way. So by avoiding one toll I am saving over EUR700 a year.

While the roads are great and all that they have really screwed the people heading to galway esp if you compare it to what the waterford people have to pay

I drove from Paris to Calais which is about 3/4 of your return trip to Galway and paid over €20 in tolls, i think it was actually about €25. Petrol wasn't any cheaper there either. No idea if France has Motor tax or Road tax.

If you don't want to pay the tolls you can always advoid them and save yourself the money.

tharlear

Sorry if this has been covered before

But what is the cost of a return trip to Dublin Airport (DA) on each of the interurbans

Without prepaid tags
Galway DA EUR13.60 according to 966tt
Belfast DA? Euro5.80 (not including m50 tool naturally, Belfast to south Dublin EUR9.80)
Cork DA?
Limerick DA?
Waterford DA?

With prepaid tags
Galway DA
Belfast DA?
Cork DA?
Limerick DA?
Waterford DA?

kippy

Galway to Belfast via mostly M/A and a small section of N is €9.70 each way without using any prepaid tags etc.

A small price to pay for a hassle/fatigue free 3.5 hour Journey.

I dont get people who dodge tolls either on long journeys, it is rarely ever worth it.

996tt

marmurr1916 wrote: »

You choose to drive from Dublin to Galway every weekend and you complain about the expense?

Ever heard of trains or buses?

Dont choose, public transport is not convenient for me

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

I drove from Paris to Calais which is about 3/4 of your return trip to Galway and paid over €20 in tolls, i think it was actually about €25. Petrol wasn't any cheaper there either. No idea if France has Motor tax or Road tax.

If you don't want to pay the tolls you can always advoid them and save yourself the money.

Different country nothing to do with my argument.

My argument is why is the toll at enfield EUR2.90 when no other toll is this expensive(ignoring the port tunnel) and esp when you consider that you can drive from Waterford to dublin with no toll. The enfield section is just as busy as most other toll sections and the PPP section of it is very short(only about 30ks) when compared to other PPP motorways yet is more expensive

Getting of the motorway doesnt bother me too much, as i said old road is good, rarely congested and I get some petrol. Only adds about 10mins onto my journey even factoring getting petrol and as an added bonus the rules fo the road for a single carriageway are pretty straightforward so even the average Irish person can understand them unlike motorways.

Bazzo

I don't have any major problem with tolls and whenever I do use the motorway I certainly don't make any attempt to avoid them.

What I DO have a problem with is that many people are almost forced to use the motorways due to the fact that despite paying road tax, a LOT of our national roads are in an absolutely terrible state. Easily some of the worst in Europe, I'd say.

Cionád

996tt wrote: »

Different country nothing to do with my argument.

I think the point is even at 2.90 for a 36km section of motorway is good value when compared internationally.

I've driven from Galway to Dublin Airport in under two hours, on a far safer road for a combined toll of €6.80 one way, that is good value imo, less than one days parking at the airport, and keeping a steady pace on the motorway, likely a good saving in fuel consumption.

996tt

Cionád wrote: »

I think the point is even at 2.90 for a 36km section of motorway is good value when compared internationally.

I've driven from Galway to Dublin Airport in under two hours, on a far safer road for a combined toll of €6.80 one way, that is good value imo, less than one days parking at the airport, and keeping a steady pace on the motorway, likely a good saving in fuel consumption.

But its a different country so different rules, if you are going to go down the road of comparing international tolls why not compare it to the UK(ignoring their 4 tolled roads) or germany where there are no tolls.

All im saying its all well and good it you do an odd journey to the airport but add it up over a year and 3 tolls is allot esp when you add in all the other stealth car taxes out there

nordydan

tharlear wrote: »

Sorry if this has been covered before

But what is the cost of a return trip to Dublin Airport (DA) on each of the interurbans

Without prepaid tags
Galway DA EUR13.60 according to 966tt
Belfast DA? Euro5.80 (not including m50 tool naturally, Belfast to south Dublin EUR9.80)
Cork DA?
Limerick DA?
Waterford DA?

With prepaid tags
Galway DA
Belfast DA?
Cork DA?
Limerick DA?
Waterford DA?

I think Belfast is just €3.80

slinky2000

Limerick to Belfast Return

Portlaoise Toll * 2 = 3.60e
m50 Toll * 2 = 6.00e
M1 Toll *2 = 3.60e

Total 13.20e With an eflow tag it's 11.20e

I think that's correct

Amtmann

slinky2000 wrote: »

m50 Toll * 2 = 6.00e

€4 if you have a tag, not €6.

tharlear

So this is what I can figure out so far

Without prepaid tags
Galway Dublimn Airport
M6 = EUR1.90
M4 = EUR 2.90
M50 = EUR 3.00
Total EUR7.80
Return X2 EUR15.60

Belfast Dublin Airport (NO m50 toll :-) )
M1 = EUR1.90
Total EUR1.90
Returnx2 EUR 3.80

Cork Dublin Airport

Limerick Dublin Airport
M7 = EUR1.80
m50 = EUR3.00
Total EUR4.80
ReturnX2 EUR9.60

Waterford Dublin
M9 =EUR 0.00
M50 = EUR3.00
Total EUR3.00
Returnx2 EUR6.00

With prepaid tags
Galway Dublin Airport 10% reduction for prepaid tags on m4/m6 (not sure if this is correct)
M6 = EUR1.71
M4 = EUR 2.61
M50 = EUR 2.00
Total EUR6.32
Return X2 EUR12.62

Belfast Dublin Airport
M1 = EUR1.90
Total EUR1.90
Returnx2 EUR 3.80

Cork Dublin Airport

Limerick Dublin Airport
M7 = EUR1.80
m50 = EUR2.00
Total EUR3.80
ReturnX2 EUR7.60

Waterford Dublin
M9 =EUR 0.00
M50 = EUR2.00
Total EUR2.00
Returnx2 EUR4.00

L1011

tharlear wrote: »

Galway Dublin Airport 10% reduction for prepaid tags on m4/m6 (not sure if this is correct)

Its not correct.

996tt

MYOB wrote: »

Its not correct.

Sort of is, Gal-Ballinasloe toll operator give you 10% off when you buy EUR40 worth, only works on this section though and does not work in the "tag lane"

wellbutty

Theres no road/motor tax in France but their tolls make the motorways absolutely unusable for everyday use. Maybe we need to do what they do and implement distance-based tolls via barriers/collection points on every on/off ramp. That'll be the end of toll-dodgers. I've been there twice this year, you could easily pay €40 doing Limoges to Calais...one way. If we want decent roads, we're gonna have to pay for them....Irish people need to get this into their heads.

L1011

996tt wrote: »

Sort of is, Gal-Ballinasloe toll operator give you 10% off when you buy EUR40 worth, only works on this section though and does not work in the "tag lane"

All barriered tolls give you 10% off for bulk buying, its the law. But its not on tags (except Fermoy's, on their own tag only) which is what was said...

Carawaystick

996tt wrote: »

germany where there are no tolls.

HGV's are tolled on Autobahnnnen.

I see none of the anti-toll posters have placed any value on safety or the time/fuel saving.
I'd say a very large proportion of the reduction in traffic deaths is due to the Motorway network.
And as most downgraded old N-routes now have 80 limits vs 120 on most motorways as well as extra stops on the non-m route, the time saved is probably considerable. If you are earning 12 euros an hour, ten mins is the price of a toll. If you earn more, a shorter time saving pays.

Stinicker

I drove the section of old N7 up around Durrow and Abbeyleix the last day coming from the Ploughing, the amount of lorries on it was unbelievable, the only traffic that wasn't local was long distance trucks. Surely concessions should be given for those driving say from Cork to Belfast in which you get a reduction on the tolls for using all of them.

limklad

I have done the same trip as that guy in the Letter Op is talking about with several trips to Dublin before and after the Portlaoise to Borris in Ossory Motorway open. I am finding no difference in time on either route. There is less traffic now on the old road (80 km) which has helped on the time travelled on that road and it is shorter as well.
Old road is 24Km versus 29km Motorway (Included 1km 80kph with extra roundabouts). I have used my gps to record all road trips up and down the country.
Until the Neangh to Borris in Ossory motorway opens I still be using the old road. It is a waste of time paying the €1:80 and the cost of burning extra fuel for extra distance at Motorway speeds at Portlaoise until the last strength of road is opened. According to my calculations I should be seeing slight time savings. In reality I am not seeing that to justify the cost.

On the Limerick Tunnel however there is a huge time savings and fuel cost savings and I do use that when I need to cross the Shannon (bypassing the troublesome city), except get to Thomond Park where I walk across the Shannon.

996tt

Carawaystick wrote: »

HGV's are tolled on Autobahnnnen.

I see none of the anti-toll posters have placed any value on safety or the time/fuel saving.
I'd say a very large proportion of the reduction in traffic deaths is due to the Motorway network.
And as most downgraded old N-routes now have 80 limits vs 120 on most motorways as well as extra stops on the non-m route, the time saved is probably considerable. If you are earning 12 euros an hour, ten mins is the price of a toll. If you earn more, a shorter time saving pays.

i dont drive a truck.

Fuel saving is not huge 130kph on the motorway vs a pretty steady 90kph on the old road.

marmurr1916

996tt wrote: »

i dont drive a truck.

Fuel saving is not huge 130kph on the motorway vs a pretty steady 90kph on the old road.

You could always reduce your speed to stay within the speed limit of 120km/h

And if you're going on a long-distance journey, consider getting a train or a bus - usually works out cheaper than petrol, tolls, wear and tear etc.

Just because you have a car doesn't mean you have to drive it everywhere.

If I go on a long-distance journey, I usually take the bus. Takes a lot longer but I don't have to deal with the stress of driving, I can read a book and I don't have to pay for petrol.

If you go from Cork to Dublin, you can get a return fare from around €20. Similar fares are available on most routes to Dublin.

You can get a return fare from most larger towns and cities to Dublin from as low as €20 with IE if you book online.

Stinicker

wellbutty wrote: »

Theres no road/motor tax in France but their tolls make the motorways absolutely unusable for everyday use. Maybe we need to do what they do and implement distance-based tolls via barriers/collection points on every on/off ramp. That'll be the end of toll-dodgers. I've been there twice this year, you could easily pay €40 doing Limoges to Calais...one way. If we want decent roads, we're gonna have to pay for them....Irish people need to get this into their heads.

However France has decent non-Motorway roads, Remember when Jeremy Clarkson, May and Hammond drove from Geneva to Blackpool on a tank of Diesel each, Hammond took the French non-Motorway roads and reached Blackpool first in his VW Polo. In Ireland we do not have the option to drive any sort of distance without resorting to the motorways as they are the best roads in Ireland.

The Autobahn and AutoRoute in France are about facilitating Industry to grow the economy, they also come in very handy for Motoring. Both Countries have good public transport systems, I can drive from Kerry to Dublin on the Motorway faster than on the train and we have no rail freight.

ALL HGVs pay for the Autobahnen as do Motorists with their €1.47/litre petrol over there, but oh what a pleasure it is to sink the shoe and hear that mighty engine roar and climb above 250km/h.

Our Motorway system is fine but I do think lorries should be inventiveised to use the Motorway and stop toll dodging. However less lorries means less morons in the Fast lane allowing me to zoom on by at 200km/h.

Amtmann

From what I understand, tolls are tax-deductable to the tune of 60% for businesses as things stand.

996tt

Furet wrote: »

From what I understand, tolls are tax-deductable to the tune of 60% for businesses as things stand.

depends on the business, few examples:

VAT Registered company:
-EUR100 in tolls cost approx EUR72(after claiming 21% VAT and writing off against Corp Tax(you have to be making profits)

Butcher company(not allowed to be vat registered):
-EUR100 in tolls cost EUR87.50

VAT registered Sole Trader:
-EUR100 in tolls real cost may be as little as EUR40(claim 21% the balance of EUR82 reduces income tax bill, so effectively a EUR40 write off)

Loss making farmer:
-EUR100 costs EUR100.