Why was Peter Sutherland given a platform on the RTE news?

George Orwell 1982

Welease wrote: »

I never suggested we wipe out the defecit in one year.. lets at least argue what I have said

No it's not a simple situation, noone in their right mind believes it is.. but we need to continue to push harsh measure through..

If we look at previous comments (and by no means are the PS alone in having to deal with the problem).. but pretending that pay is static while increments in place is utter bollox.. if they are being paid more.. then lets admit they are being paid and factor it in.. thats the problem with Ireland.. utter denial about everything.. and that was what I took as the main point of Suds and others musings.. stop the denial.. this will be painful..

When the numbers of '10 cars being sold increases.. then you need to wonder.. the pain hasn't quiet set in yet.

Who is in denial? People are being put out of their homes, losing jobs, emigrating etc. Suicide numbers are way up. The people in denial are Suds and his cronies if they think they can keep passing on the costs of their mistakes to the population. Sooner or later things will break down.

crow_eat_crow

In any decent society this charlatan would be hanging from a lamp-post by now.

just love this part of the OP's post.:rolleyes:

liammur

Welease wrote: »

Well.. anyone who wants out of a DB pension (at 7%) and claims to understand finance/economics is suspect (with respect) ...

PS pensions at this moment are incredibly generous but not sustainable. I would need to go through the figures and projections before I would offer advice, but down the line I can see their lump sums being taxed etc

blue_steel

Welease wrote: »

Well.. anyone who wants out of a DB pension (at 7%) and claims to understand finance/economics is suspect (with respect) ...

I was already paying 5% before the pension levy.

blue_steel

Welease wrote: »

Don't you get 50% at 40 years? (plus lump sum)..

What in gods name are you talking about?

Sir Oxman

Welease wrote: »

On that we can agree... Suds is a hypocrite.. but his message is still correct..
and just because the OP doesn't like him doesn't make the message invalid..

We are broke.. broke beyond belief.. and cuts.. huge cuts will have to be made.. 5% here and 5% there won't make a dent.. we need major cuts everywhere.. It's has to be painful for everyone

His whole life's work makes his message invalid - he's not an Irishman looking out for his country, if you belive that you're one of the Fools on Fintan's Ship.
He's an investment banker, very much on the inside and money and the making of it above everything, is his goal.
He doesn't give a shít about this country, only his compadrés and the billions they are getting away with.

Look at his record, to even give the time of day to this GS mouthpiece is an insult.

We all know what's coming down the line and most of us know it has to be done - sure we could all roll over and not say a word about the likes of him lecturing the little man and not point out that hold on, weren't you the greedy, greedy big man who was a major part of the elite culture built up on this island? -
the OP was all about yet another member of the elite in this country lecturing us that 'we' must gird our loins, nah he doesn't mean him or his fellow bedfellows, he means shut up little man and don't say a word, well he can fck right off.

Welease

blue_steel wrote: »

I was already paying 5% before the pension levy you santimonious..... person you.

So? DB pensions are estimated to be worth 30% of salary? I'm on one...
(and quit the childish insults).

Welease

blue_steel wrote: »

What in gods name are you talking about?

Isnt the PS pension 50% of final salary after a full term of 40 years?

blue_steel

Welease wrote: »

So? DB pensions are estimated to be worth 30% of salary? I'm on one...
(and quit the childish insults).

You put 30% of their income into a pension scheme? Fair enough. Sure hope the markets you care about so much don't f**K you over when you go to collect pal. Actually I hope they do

blue_steel

Welease wrote: »

Isnt the PS pension 50% of final salary after a full term of 40 years?

I gave you the figures in an earlier post. They are based on an icome of 45k pa.

Welease

liammur wrote: »

PS pensions at this moment are incredibly generous but not sustainable. I would need to go through the figures and projections before I would offer advice, but down the line I can see their lump sums being taxed etc

Absolutely, its not sustainable.. its; not sustainable in companies making profits.. its not sustainable in a country borrowing vast sums..
The last report I read estimated a PS pension shortfall of 108 billions (due to the pay as you go scheme), this has been recently estimated at in excess of 125 b..

http://www.ssisi.ie/Moloney&Whelan2009.pdf

Welease

blue_steel wrote: »

I gave you the figures in an earlier post. They are based on an icome of 45k pa.

No, I am asking how you came to those figures (and I'll ignore your further childish posts in the previous post)...

As far as I am aware after 40 years you will be due a lump sum (of 150%?) and 50% final salary benefit.. how do you come to 7K figure?

These are your pension terms.. 1/80th per year

http://www.cspensions.gov.ie/OverviewofPublicServicePensionSchemes.pdf

blue_steel

Welease wrote: »

No, I am asking how you came to those figures (and I'll ignore your further childish posts in the previous post)...

As far as I am aware after 40 years you will be due a lump sum (of 150%?) and 50% final salary benefit.. how do you come to 7K figure?

These are your pension terms.. 1/80th per year

http://www.cspensions.gov.ie/OverviewofPublicServicePensionSchemes.pdf

These figures are from my pension calculator in work. Which literally updates by the day. The public sector golden handshake is a myth my friend. Trust me I'd rather the 300-odd euro a month in my pocket.

Welease

gambiaman wrote: »

His whole life's work makes his message invalid - he's not an Irishman looking out for his country, if you belive that you're one of the Fools on Fintan's Ship.
He's an investment banker, very much on the inside and money and the making of it above everything, is his goal.
He doesn't give a shít about this country, only his compadrés and the billions they are getting away with.

Look at his record, to even give the time of day to this GS mouthpiece is an insult.

We all know what's coming down the line and most of us know it has to be done - sure we could all roll over and not say a word about the likes of him lecturing the little man and not point out that hold on, weren't you the greedy, greedy big man who was a major part of the elite culture built up on this island? -
the OP was all about yet another member of the elite in this country lecturing us that 'we' must gird our loins, nah he doesn't mean him or his fellow bedfellows, he means shut up little man and don't say a word, well he can fck right off.

I diasgree (somewhat)..

Yes he is a dick.. and yes he is the elite who walk away from this.. but that is part of the enviroment that people in this country chose to vote for.. we (en masse) voted for low regulation, boom .. we (en masse) got it..

Lets not pretend we have any higher agenda.. we voted Birtie back in, we voted Charlie Haughey in etc etc etc etc.. and i would bet my left testicle Willie o Dea will be voted back in..

But all that aside...

It depends on what message you want to take..

We need to take the pain.. a lot of pain.. and most folks in Ireland don't understand that yet.. and in that.. i believe he is correct.. (focus less on the personality, focus more more on the message)

Welease

blue_steel wrote: »

These figures are from my pension calculator in work. Which literally updates by the day. The public sector golden handshake is a myth my friend. Trust me I'd rather the 300-odd euro a month in my pocket.

What pension calc? Come on.. you are willing to throw insults around.. so back it up..

You get 1/80 pension (plus lump sum).. so increments/promotion aside you already get 3 times what you claim.....

blue_steel wrote: »

The public sector golden handshake is a myth my friend.

Your own documents suggest you get 3/80's lump sum..
http://www.cspensions.gov.ie/OverviewofPublicServicePensionSchemes.pdf

vincentdunne

I think you should both chill out.
The facts of public pensions is that, yes, I will get 50% of my salery on retirement (at 65). However, due to the Pension levy, etc. My current salary is down by 16% since 2006. I can send you the payslips if you like.
What people don't understand is that that pension (for me and may others) is made up of the old age pension and then made up to 50%.
This may be relatively generous in comparison to others.
It does not, however, mean that I, after 35 years service in education, am unable to make ends meet at the end of the month, and I don't pay a mortgage.
Mr. Sutherland is the epitomy of the 'Fat cat' literally. He never did and never will have to survive on €3,000 per month and, you know what, he does not care either.
Talk is cheap, unless it is from a solicitor or a banker.

Citizen_Cutback

Welease wrote: »

So? DB pensions are estimated to be worth 30% of salary? I'm on one...
(and quit the childish insults).

How much are you paying towards your pension percentage-wise compared to your employer?

Do you accept that the employer always pays a significant element of DB contributions?

Is it acceptable the the Government pays approximately 7-8% towards Public Sector DB pensions or should different rules apply for Private/Public Sectors?

What is the current Net Cost to the State of Contributory/Non-Contributory Pensions for approximately 440,000 current and increased future Pensions?

Perhaps if you got into a Defined Benefit Pension Scheme 20 years ago you wouldn't be so bitter about Public Sector Pensions now.

I am not expecting you to reply in a coherent fashion; I know your form!

blue_steel

Welease wrote: »

What pension calc? Come on.. you are willing to throw insults around.. so back it up..

You get 1/80 pension (plus lump sum).. so increments/promotion aside you already get 3 times what you claim.....

You won't reveal anything about your own circumstances and yet you question me when I'm honest enough to give my personal details. This thread isn't about my pension. It's about obsequious Uncle Tom's like you apologising for Fat Cat leeches like Sutherland. Listen, be my guest and suck at the teat of your economic overlord. Me I'll pass. Sweet dreams.

Sir Oxman

Welease wrote: »

I diasgree (somewhat)..

Yes he is a dick.. and yes he is the elite who walk away from this.. but that is part of the enviroment that people in this country chose to vote for.. we (en masse) voted for low regulation, boom .. we (en masse) got it..

Lets not pretend we have any higher agenda.. we voted Birtie back in, we voted Charlie Haughey in etc etc etc etc.. and i would bet my left testicle Willie o Dea will be voted back in..

But all that aside...

It depends on what message you want to take..

We need to take the pain.. a lot of pain.. and most folks in Ireland don't understand that yet.. and in that.. i believe he is correct.. (focus less on the personality, focus more more on the message)[/QUOTE]

Welease, I can't ignore who is speaking - I think it matters a great deal.
I already have taken the message about cuts onboard, to take that message from the likes of him and his cohorts is a no-no.

The man's a cancer.

I won't get into your other points above on this thread (I agree), just to say who'd have thought doling out medical cards etc could keep a bunch of gombeens comfy in their seats in our NATIONAL parliament.
For that, a lot of Irish little men need to shoulder a heavy part of the blame.

Welease

blue_steel wrote: »

You won't reveal anything about your own circumstances and yet you question me when I'm honest enough to give my personal details. This thread isn't about my pension. It's about obsequious Uncle Tom's like you apologising for Fat Cat leeches like Sutherland. Listen, be my guest and suck at the teat of your economic overlord. Me I'll pass. Sweet dreams.

Sorry but you are not being honest.. I pointed out with links to your own employers pages how there is now way you will earn a 7K pension and you avoided the point, just like you avoided you FACT that no one is being hired..

You just go back to the same old tired insults ....

Welease

gambiaman wrote: »

Welease, I can't ignore who is speaking - I think it matters a great deal.
I already have taken the message about cuts onboard, to take that message from the likes of him and his cohorts is a no-no.

The man's a cancer.

He is... but his message is true.. and he's a cancer because we let loose fiscal policies become our cancer..

gambiaman wrote: »

I won't get into your other points above on this thread (I agree), just to say who'd have thought doling out medical cards etc could keep a bunch of gombeens comfy in their seats in our NATIONAL parliament.
For that, a lot of Irish little men need to shoulder a heavy part of the blame.

Absolutely... we let this happen.. and we continue to let this happen.. the denial in this thread is laughable.. 4 months ago we didn't want to be lumped in with PIGS... now we are the single pIg.... and still we deny the fact..

Welease

vincentdunne wrote: »

I think you should both chill out.
The facts of public pensions is that, yes, I will get 50% of my salery on retirement (at 65). However, due to the Pension levy, etc. My current salary is down by 16% since 2006. I can send you the payslips if you like.
What people don't understand is that that pension (for me and may others) is made up of the old age pension and then made up to 50%.
This may be relatively generous in comparison to others.
It does not, however, mean that I, after 35 years service in education, am unable to make ends meet at the end of the month, and I don't pay a mortgage.
Mr. Sutherland is the epitomy of the 'Fat cat' literally. He never did and never will have to survive on €3,000 per month and, you know what, he does not care either.
Talk is cheap, unless it is from a solicitor or a banker.

In relation to Mr. Sutherland, yes talk is cheap.. as it is for politicians etc.. the people that the masses let drive their beliefs and thoughts.. after all it wasnt but 3-4 years ago everyone loved the boom and held them up to be gods well apart from those of us who were told to go commit suicide...

Despite what Blue_Steel claims.. yes, you will get 50% of your final (3 year) salary at retirement age... and that is an amazing benefit.. If it wasn't, then the private sector would be offering it, but even the banks got rid of it (pre-crash) as being too expensive.. And for those who were in DC pensions (the vast majority of private workers).. their pensions lost 36% in 2008.. put that into perspective..
Blue-Steel wanted figures.. I have one pension account that I paid 12.5% of my salary into for the last 18 years (with my company paying 9.75%).. I now earn a six figure compensation.. and that pension as per my last statement will provide me with 1,800 per year (17+ buy in per year rate)... before moving to this DB package.. which I am desperate to keep.. so anyone who wishes to dump it, i have to wonder how much they actually understand about what they are talking about..

vincentdunne

The point I was making to both yourself and Blue-Steel is that we, public and private workers, are all in the muck, some may be standing in a somewhat more shallow pool. Sutherland is not. He is on a hill, sipping 'champagne' and laughing his head off while lecturing you, me and Blue Steel, and all the other poor bastards who will have to pay for his friends (nor our) excesses.

AlekSmart

Suds talking about it now should not be news to anyone.. It;s not up for debate...

I`m with Welease on this for sure...WTF Mr Sudsy was given so much uninterrupted airtime to peddle his undebatable self serving logic is beyond me..or did he pay RTE the going rate for a 10 minute slot at Peak rates...?

blue_steel

Welease wrote: »

Sorry but you are not being honest.. I pointed out with links to your own employers pages how there is now way you will earn a 7K pension and you avoided the point, just like you avoided you FACT that no one is being hired..

You just go back to the same old tired insults ....

I'm not sure why but you are determined to believe I'm lying to you :rolleyes:
Here is my pension statement. €7800 pa with full service for the next 28 yrs. I'm planning on taking a career break at some stage so that'll drop.
I think what annoys you about ps pensions is the fact that you have some chance of getting back what you put in. But isn't that how a pension should work? Or perhaps you are happy handing over money to some shyster every month for him to play with on the markets? Only for him to come back to you in 30 yrs and say sorry, I lost it all.
Besides its all a moot point because there won't be any money to pay either of our pensions thanks to Sutherland and his ilk. THAT is the main reason I'd opt out if I could.


Retirement Benefits Statement

Personal Details for Joe Blogs @ 25 September 2010 </I></B>Date of Birth 21/10/1973 Projected retirement date at age 65 21/10/2038 Pensionable Service to date
Service from today to retirement 2 Years and 0 Days
28 Years and 26 DaysProjected future working pattern100% (Full Time) Total reckonable service*30 Years and 26 Days Pensionable Remuneration€45,000
Your Benefits on retiring at age 65 (Based on current salary supplied by you and Social Welfare rate)If you retire at age 65 you would receive a once off tax-free retirement gratuity of €50,745, less the deduction of any outstanding contributions. You would also receive a pension of €7,881. Your pension would be paid in arrears on a fortnightly basis. Based on your Class A Social Welfare status, you may also be entitled to a Social Welfare contributory Old Age Pension from age 66, currently €12,017.05 per annum. If through no fault of your own you fail to qualify for a Social Welfare benefit, you may be entitled to a supplementary pension.

doc_17

I dislike it when these pr/cks who caused the whole mess, bit like Cowen and his band of stupid men/women, tell us what we should be doing to get out of it.

eoinbn

blue_steel wrote: »

Yes WE need to take the pain.
So how about looking at our corporation tax rate? (Intel recently posted the highest quarterly revenue in its history)
How about removing the PRSI ceiling?
How about means testing children’s allowance?
How bout taxing all income above 100K at 60%?
How about creating a tax on all future banking profits so that eventually they’ll pay for the mess they created? And let’s charge them a decent interest rate while we’re at it.
My point is WE should include Sutherland and his cohorts. But his WE doesn’t. His WE is US!

Corp tax: I don't really have an issue with it. I think it's hypocritical of us to be complaining about people avoiding tax while we provide a tax haven for companies. On the flip side it would really hurt investment.

PRSI: I would an issue with that. Welfare benefits are fixed so I don't see why some people should pay more to get access to the same benefits.

Childrens allowance: No problem with that but Joan Burton would have a fit! Apparently the payment isn't for children it's for mothers as some husbands are cruel and don't give their wives enough money to buy handbags!(OK, I added the handbags...)

Tax@60% for €100k: It's already somewhere in the 50's for many of them due to levies. It won't solve much of the problem but it might make people feel a little better...

Taxing bank profits: The problems needs to be tackled NOW- taxing zero=zero. In any case banks will just pass the tax on by charging more interest, or higher bank charges- either way it's 'Joe public' that will pay.

liammur

vincentdunne wrote: »

I think you should both chill out.
The facts of public pensions is that, yes, I will get 50% of my salery on retirement (at 65). However, due to the Pension levy, etc. My current salary is down by 16% since 2006. I can send you the payslips if you like.
What people don't understand is that that pension (for me and may others) is made up of the old age pension and then made up to 50%.
This may be relatively generous in comparison to others.
It does not, however, mean that I, after 35 years service in education, am unable to make ends meet at the end of the month, and I don't pay a mortgage.
Mr. Sutherland is the epitomy of the 'Fat cat' literally. He never did and never will have to survive on €3,000 per month and, you know what, he does not care either.
Talk is cheap, unless it is from a solicitor or a banker.

I would agree with a lot of what you say, however, a lot of solicitors are in a bad way too, through no fault of their own I may add.

blue_steel

Sutherland (and some people here) reckon its more about the deficit than the banking crisis? But aren't the deficit problems compounded by the banking crisis? We didn't lose our AAA credit rating because of the deficit. We aren't paying 6.5% for credit because of the deficit. Those things happened because our banks screwed up and the markets think paying the bill will sink us. Wouldn't it be easier to reduce the deficit if we didn't have the 70 billion drag from NAMA and Anglo, starting as we did from a small debt to GDP ratio?
But Sutherland wants to blame nurses and firemen for what he helped to cause. Don't be fooled. The man is (as an astute poster said above) a cancer. And we will never have a equitable society until such cancers are removed.

liammur

blue_steel wrote: »

Sutherland (and some people here) reckon its more about the deficit than the banking crisis? But aren't the deficit problems compounded by the banking crisis? We didn't lose our AAA credit rating because of the deficit. We aren't paying 6.5% for credit because of the deficit. Those things happened because our banks screwed up and the markets think paying the bill will sink us. Wouldn't it be easier to reduce the deficit if we didn't have the 70 billion drag from NAMA and Anglo, starting as we did from a small debt to GDP ratio?
But Sutherland wants to blame nurses and firemen for what he helped to cause. Don't be fooled. The man is (as an astute poster said above) a cancer. And we will never have a equitable society until such cancers are removed.

Most people are in awe of sutherland, the same way they were of sean fitzie a few years ago.