How effective is spinning for trout?

thehamo

I remember when I was a kid, I used to spin on the local river (tolka) for trout, they average about 1.5-2lbs. Having said that, I never used to catch anything on them. How effective is spinning for trout? Would they be more inclined to take a spinner than say a worm? I never use one because I just have a mental block against them, also now that ive taken up fly fishing:D

And, why is it that most stocked lakes say "no spinning"? Is it becuause they are particularly detremental or might there be another reason?

Just curious is all.
Cheers"!

Compton

worming would be better than spinning for trout, than spinning. But people are usually better at on or the other, there is a skill in every method.

Spinning in a stocked lake is just ridiculous.

skipz

I find it depends which river iam on, i could spin a small river and then try it on say the boyne and not get anything and never have.
As for the stocked rainbow lakes, its the dogs bo'lox:D

Compton

It depends on time of the year I find on rivers. I do very well when the mayflies are hatching on the spinner~!

snow ghost

I find it better to stand still myself.

Being serious, depends on the water, time of year, whether fish are feeding on fry, what type of spinner, weed, etc, etc.

Personally, I find it can be hit and miss although I enjoy spinning.

experimenter

Spinning for trout is not too challenging. I wish more stocked lakes would adopt the no spinning attitude or divide the lake if possible..

Grand for a young fella starting off, but that's as far as it goes.

thehamo

The stocked lakes I've been to have all had no spinning policies, tho I don't know how well they're enforced really. One particular place springs to mind. You could turn up with a trawler and nets and they'd still let you fish!

garancafan

thehamo wrote: »

The stocked lakes I've been to have all had no spinning policies, tho I don't know how well they're enforced really. One particular place springs to mind. You could turn up with a trawler and nets and they'd still let you fish!

LOL.

As to the preference accorded to fly over worm or spinner. I have never seen any explanation for this policy. Perhaps a fishery owner/manager or an official charged with implementing the policy could explain the rationale behind it.

premiercad

My local club has a "no Spinning" fly fish only policy, I think the main reason is to protect the younger fish who are particularly attracted to the spinner and a treble hook on an average sized spinner will destroy a young fish especially if the fish isn't handled properly. also its probably a bit of a tool to protect membership waters from over fishing

coolwings

A fly caught fish is in the mouth on a single hook.
A worm caught fish is often (young trout) deep hooked in the upper gut, or rear mouth (gills area) on a single.
A spinner caught fish is mouth hooked with up to three hooks, or up to six hooks in the case of Rapala type lures.

Given angler numbers, reduced trout stocks, the need for release of unharmed fish to grow on, the motivation for fly fishing rules is not hard to work out.

ironbluedun

Spinning is effective, in the right hands, but like worming and maggot fishing it does considerable damage the fish and is less sympathetic to conservation than fly fishing, but from the content of some posts on this site in recent weeks do many Irish anglers actually care? or is it all about the kill? and the look at me, me pictures and me videos how great am i mentality.

snow ghost

premiercad wrote: »

also its probably a bit of a tool to protect membership waters from over fishing

I think you hit the nail on the head there - it is to prevent over fishing, in other words to save on re-stocking fish, in other words to save money and to make more profits.

snow ghost

coolwings wrote: »

A fly caught fish is in the mouth on a single hook.
A worm caught fish is often (young trout) deep hooked in the upper gut, or rear mouth (gills area) on a single.
A spinner caught fish is mouth hooked with up to three hooks, or up to six hooks in the case of Rapala type lures.

Given angler numbers, reduced trout stocks, the need for release of unharmed fish to grow on, the motivation for fly fishing rules is not hard to work out.

Most trout I have ever caught on a worm have not been deep hooked at all, in fact I can't remember even one. Perch for example are a different matter, they wolf the worm down.

The vast majority of fish - mackerel even - are taken on one hook of the treble not all three. Moreover, many are now spinning with single hooks as they find it as effective and less prone to snagging in weed.

Whilst I appreciate you have a major bias to lure fishing with artificial flies I wish you would refrain from spreading nonsense about other methods of angling that simply are not true.

snow ghost

ironbluedun wrote: »

Spinning is effective, in the right hands, but like worming and maggot fishing it does considerable damage the fish and is less sympathetic to conservation than fly fishing, but from the content of some posts on this site in recent weeks do many Irish anglers actually care? or is it all about the kill? and the look at me, me pictures and me videos how great am i mentality.

Who said it less sympathetic to the conservation than fly fishing? What utter nonsense.

What's this "my lure is better than yours nah, nan nah nah naaaaa:P"!!!

Why do you pull them out of the water at all? Because not doing so would be the next logical step in your argument.

ironbluedun

snow ghost wrote: »

Who said it less sympathetic to the conservation than fly fishing? What utter nonsense.

What's this "my lure is better than yours nah, nan nah nah naaaaa:P"!!!

Why do you pull them out of the water at all? Because not doing so would be the next logical step in your argument.

whats the point its like talking to a brick wall....................

ironbluedun

garancafan wrote: »

LOL.

As to the preference accorded to fly over worm or spinner. I have never seen any explanation for this policy. Perhaps a fishery owner/manager or an official charged with implementing the policy could explain the rationale behind it.

simply it is for conservation reasons. The majority of EXPERIENCED anglers understand that rationale. But there are many less experienced, less skilled and less knowledgeable who have not got a clue.

snow ghost

ironbluedun wrote: »

whats the point its like talking to a brick wall....................

I'll take it from that you don't have a credible response when your insubstantial claims are challenged?

I'll make it easy for you - why not post details of credible research that verifies what you claim regarding conservation and spinning compared to fly fishing.

Or is it just your own opinion?

snow ghost

ironbluedun wrote: »

simply it is for conservation reasons. The majority of EXPERIENCED anglers understand that rationale. But there are many less experienced, less skilled and less knowledgeable who have not got a clue.

What utter arogant and self-deluded nonsense.

ironbluedun

snow ghost wrote: »

What utter arogant and self-deluded nonsense.

I presume you mean arrogant.

I m not going to bother to get into a petty argument with you. If you do not understand or are not willing to accept the point of view of others then that’s a matter for you to deal with. I wont be rude.
Thats all I have to say on the matter, if you want research on conservation do it yourself.

You can throw as much abuse at me as you wish but i am sorry i wont be Indulging you. I am not the type of person who exchanges personal immature insults with others on a public forum.

snow ghost

ironbluedun wrote: »

I presume you mean arrogant.

I m not going to bother to get into a petty argument with you. If you do not understand or are not willing to accept the point of view of others then that’s a matter for you to deal with. I wont be rude.
Thats all I have to say in the matter, if you want research on conservation do it yourself.

Ironbluedun,

You clearly don't have any credible sources.

You deride other forms of angling and anglers and falsely claim that your personal opinions are facts. They clearly are not and you shouldn't pretend they are.

It is you that clearly is not willing to accept the point of view of others.

You are clearly being rude - just because you insult people in a non-direct manner doesn't detract from your derisory intent.

You don't have anything to back up your spurrious claims because there isn't anything - the Inland Fisheries board even promote worming and spinning for trout on their website.

coolwings

snow ghost wrote: »

...Whilst I appreciate you have a major bias to lure fishing with artificial flies I wish you would refrain from spreading nonsense about other methods of angling that simply are not true.

Heh Heh. You couldn't be more wrong pal.

I spin and fly fish together.
Where all methods are legal, I carry three rods when out: Floating line fly, sinking line fly, and spinning. I alternate until the feeding pattern is established.
Where you detect bias I don't know, here are some photos of my big lake trout setup.




If it is my recommending fly fishing overall because trout are insectivores and fly imitates insect sized food items, well that is fish behavioural logic applied, not bias.

My comments are relating to conservation and fish numbers in the face of increasing angling pressure not an attack on your favourite technique.

snow ghost

coolwings wrote: »

Heh Heh. You couldn't be more wrong pal.

I spin and fly fish together.
Where all methods are legal, I carry three rods when out: Floating line fly, sinking line fly, and spinning. I alternate until the feeding pattern is established.
Where you detect bias I don't know, here are some photos of my big lake trout setup.




If it is my recommending fly fishing overall because trout are insectivores and fly imitates insect sized food items, well that is fish behavioural logic applied, not bias.

My comments are relating to conservation and fish numbers in the face of increasing angling pressure not an attack on your favourite technique.

I perceived a bias, but if I am wrong coolwings I apologise.

That said I stand by the rest of my comments regarding spinning and worms (although trolling for very big trout may result n more than one of the trebles being hooked) and I'm curious to know how conservation and fish numbers come into play if we are talking stocked lakes not allowing spinning? Surely most stocked lakes can easily obtain more fish to stock it with if they want?

garancafan

It was not my intention to provoke an argument. I am sure that both fly-fishers and spinners alike would spurn trolling!

Many thanks to those who have taken the trouble to reply to my question.

SeaFields

coolwings wrote: »

here are some photos of my big lake trout setup.

No dynamite ?! :p

ironbluedun

coolwings wrote: »

here are some photos of my big lake trout setup.

thats some float tube...fish finder rod shelf and all...........

coolwings

Snowghost and Garancafan have a very good point where very large brown trout are concerned, such fish being exclusively predators and not susceptible to the fly fishing technique.
To argue that a "fly" lure is good, and a spinner is bad, is verging on the ridiculous.


Who mentioned trolling? Not me - until now that is. But for ferox .... trolling is the business.

aidanf

What's wrong with trolling?

SeaFields

aidanf wrote: »

What's wrong with trolling?

Probably a bit confusing on the angling forum more than any other for a new comers. "Trolling" on message boards like boards.ie refers to trying to start an argument on purpose or going out of your way to piss people off with sweeping statements and the like. You'll sometimes see people being refered to as "troll".

Edit - just to clarify i am not insinuating anyone is trolling in the thread - just trying to clear it up for aidan.

aidanf

SeaFields wrote: »

Probably a bit confusing on the angling forum more than any other for a new comers. "Trolling" on message boards like boards.ie refers to trying to start an argument on purpose or going out of your way to piss people off with sweeping statements and the like. You'll sometimes see people being refered to as "troll".

Edit - just to clarify i am not insinuating anyone is trolling in the thread - just trying to clear it up for aidan.

Thanks SeaFields, I know what trolling is in the online, post stuff just to get a reaction sense.
Just when it was mentioned in this thread, which is about spinning, I assumed it was meant in the pulling a lure behind a boat sense. Rereading I see if could have been meant in the other way too so I'm not sure which kind of trolling the OP was referring to.

garancafan

It was intended to be a pun.

aidanf

garancafan wrote: »

It was intended to be a pun.

Sorry, I missed that:). Probably because I read an article about trolling (the fishing kind) last night and I had trolling on my mind.

The article was interesting though. It was about the effect of increasing perch and roach populations on trout populations on lakes. The basic gist of it was that as a lake gets more and more perch and roach in it, they end up eating more of the insect life in the lake, which leaves less insect life for trout to eat. But in turn the trout will start feeding on perch/roach fry and small fish of which there are plenty. The result is that trout spends less time feeding on the surface and more time feeding on the bottom and fly fishing for trout becomes less effective. So in lakes with a large stock of coarse fish fly fishing for trout becomes less effective and trolling becomes more effective. Anyone any thoughts on this?

coolwings

Only comment is that's precisely what happens.
Another effect:
the bottom feeding trout eat coarse fish and grow faster, so their average size increases.
But their numbers drop due to competition from the numerous coarse fish fry for micro food items, this makes the mortality rate for baby trout rise.
Because of this fewer larger trout can be a sign that a trout fishery is in trouble.

snow ghost

That's an impressive float tube set-up coolwings!

Would you use that on the big loughs? Would it be safe?

snow ghost

aidanf wrote: »

Sorry, I missed that:). Probably because I read an article about trolling (the fishing kind) last night and I had trolling on my mind.

The article was interesting though. It was about the effect of increasing perch and roach populations on trout populations on lakes. The basic gist of it was that as a lake gets more and more perch and roach in it, they end up eating more of the insect life in the lake, which leaves less insect life for trout to eat. But in turn the trout will start feeding on perch/roach fry and small fish of which there are plenty. The result is that trout spends less time feeding on the surface and more time feeding on the bottom and fly fishing for trout becomes less effective. So in lakes with a large stock of coarse fish fly fishing for trout becomes less effective and trolling becomes more effective. Anyone any thoughts on this?

In spinning terms, I find that perch can be a pain, they can become a pest and are too easy to catch when you're not targeting them.

coolwings

snow ghost wrote: »

That's an impressive float tube set-up coolwings!

Would you use that on the big loughs? Would it be safe?

I use it the biggest loughs. But my small boat safety standard and dicipline is very tight. Newcomers have no place on big waters in small craft. A lake 1 mile x 1/2 mile is what is considered to be typical float tube territory.

snow ghost wrote: »

In spinning terms, I find that perch can be a pain, they can become a pest and are too easy to catch when you're not targeting them.

Like if we catch 50 perch and no trout? It happens! I sympathise !

ironbluedun

coolwings wrote: »

To argue that a "fly" lure is good, and a spinner is bad, is verging on the ridiculous.

who said that???? my god what a statement............

coolwings

I use largish size lures so maybe should elaborate: in my fly wallet a fly "lure" = some marabou hairy creature 2-3" long with goodly amounts of flash!
And they are not all fish imitations - I tie a lovely crayfish!

garancafan

coolwings wrote: »

I tie a lovely crayfish!

I love barbecued crayfish. Could you tie me some?

Octopus

coolwings wrote: »

But for ferox .... trolling is the business.

How fast do you need to paddle your feet when trolling with the float tube?*

(Checks spelling, clicks Submit)










*some or all of this post contains humour.

garancafan

Octopus wrote: »

How fast do you need to paddle your feet when trolling with the float tube?*

(Checks spelling, clicks Submit)










*some or all of this post contains humour.

LOL

Could be something of a stalemate if you hooked a large ferox!

snow ghost

garancafan wrote: »

LOL

Could be something of a stalemate if you hooked a large ferox!

Or a checkmate if a large pike got its teeth into your gonads!

garancafan

:eek:

coolwings

The tube provides some "surprises" and you would not want to be easily scared.
For instance when paddling along in deep water and a branch or rock sticks up (which would smash a boat) the tube or your leg just bumps into it and bounces off. Sounds simple, doesn't it? But when you are out in the middle of nowhere and something unexpectedly touches you/the tube you wake up and pay attention really fast!

Trolling fast is not a viable option. But float tube trolling ultra slowly is deadly when the fish want it at that speed. Otherwise you get fit after a while and them legs become like a regular propeller down under!!!! Truth? The fins are so efficient we kick in slow motion, so it's very like walking the bank and taking a cast each step.

garancafan

Thanks coolwings. Sounds like a pike grabbing my gonads would be preferable to a kick from propeller-legs!

ironbluedun

coolwings wrote: »

The tube provides some "surprises" and you would not want to be easily scared.
For instance when paddling along in deep water and a branch or rock sticks up (which would smash a boat) the tube or your leg just bumps into it and bounces off. Sounds simple, doesn't it? But when you are out in the middle of nowhere and something unexpectedly touches you/the tube you wake up and pay attention really fast!

Trolling fast is not a viable option. But float tube trolling ultra slowly is deadly when the fish want it at that speed. Otherwise you get fit after a while and them legs become like a regular propeller down under!!!! Truth? The fins are so efficient we kick in slow motion, so it's very like walking the bank and taking a cast each step.

Just wondering do wild trout come close to the float tube? not stocked fish, wild ones, are they spooked by it. Have you ever used it for salmon fishing? just wondering as i have never used one.

ironbluedun

coolwings wrote: »

? But when you are out in the middle of nowhere and something unexpectedly touches you/the tube you wake up and pay attention really fast!

Does that happen often?

coolwings

If you tube fish in and around the kind of snags that terrify boatbound anglers and break their hardshell boats - sure it does. Best practice in fishing a shallow submerged rockfield is avoiding a swell since your heel could hit a rock hard. In a wave we stand off and cast into the breaking waves.

One time, doodling along at 6am, flat calm, half asleep, and trolling at a snails pace for pike, a salmon of about 15lbs swam between my legs from behind me, about 6" under the surface and unexpectedly appeared between my knees. That made me sit up and pay attention, with the pulse rate of a hyperactive stoat for a minute or so.

prettygurrly

so after reading this entire thread I'm still none the wiser if spinning is appropriate for trout fishing or not...

my story is, I have a boyfriend who has hinted he would like to take up fishing again (he used to do spinning for brown trout in louth in his teens, so about 8 years ago) and hint hint on the christmas present front.

so we had a look for reels with a spinner (forgive me if my terminology isn't correct, i am not an angler) on Ebay. We came up with two in my price range

http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380273813719&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380279760310&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

now after coming across this thread i'm wondering if spinning is the right way to go. he wants to get back to nature, have something relaxing to do to take his mind off this awful economy and lack of hope all over the place. i love to read so will happily sit out with a book for 5 hours. so back to the point of this thread...spinning or fly fishing. I think he could manage fly fishing (i know i've done it in the past, it's not THAT hard to do but probably hard to perfect) so before i fork out for a spinning reel and regret it, please let me know what you think...

also any tips for louth fishing would be greatly appreciated, we live in drogheda...

thank you in advance...

Evac105

Personally I prefer fly fishing - I find it a 'purer' way to fish then spinning or bait fishing (just a personal opinion obviously). If you are going to purchase a rod and reel for either spinning or fly fishing and that you're not very familiar with the equipment I would recommend having a look at the thread at the top of this page regarding tackle shops and try visiting one and asking for advice - worst case scenario you get some good advice and then use it on the interwebs to purchase your tackle. Best case is that you purchase it from a local shop in your area for a reasonable (7-10%) mark up and establish a relationship with them regarding advice and recommendations for the future.

prettygurrly

Hi Evac...thanks for the reply. I kinda did half of what you said and spoke to the ebay seller who is actually based in the same county as me (handy). he was also of the opinion that fly fishing is better but the problem with stocked lakes forbidding spinners isn't apparent in louth as there aren't any lakes! looks like the boyfriend will be doing river fishing and can use a spinner. maybe for his birthday i'll get him fly fishing stuff in case we head off on holidays to areas that forbid spinner fishing.

thanks again for the tips....

Evac105

No problem - for what it's worth if you do decide to stick him onto the fly and that you can travel to Dublin sometime during the regular season I'd be happy to pass along what little knowledge I have of fly fishing some evening/weekend afternoon