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Regeneration - Good or Bad ?
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Renting one house does not make you a business person or a saviour of a people. Try this next week. Turn that frown upside down and see how your world changes for you as you walk out in that big bad world out there. Look for the good in people - and stop assuming the worst first.
If you read my post correctly you will see that I didn't assume the worst of these people.
I gladly gave them bread, milk etc and in fact gave one of the kids a few quid to mark his Holy Communion, I was nothing but nice to these people but they didn't respect or remember that when they attacked my personal space and belongings.
And I am not saying everyone is of the same ilk but this is my experience.0 -
In fairness Topical has made the point that he has rented to Folks that have turned out to be decent, trustworthy and trouble free.
Nobody has any right to prejudge any individual or Family simply because their previous address, personal wealth or whatever else is not seen as being on par with their own marvellous standards.
Regeneration is a way out for lots of Folks that have had to put up with our City's horrific ideas on City Planning for decades and most of them deserve their break.
So why not leave the hand-wringing and fretful whining until there is actually an issue?
- It is a fact that if a Family moves into your Road hoping for a nice quiet life and you can't meet them with an open mind and extend them the courtesy of a handshake and a decent welcome then you are sadly lacking in character and decency.
Yeah but I don't think anyone is saying that every family rehoused as part of the regeneration is scum.
The topic for the thread was whether or not people see the regeneration project as being a success or a failure so far.
I don't think anybody is arguing that the concept is a bad one.
Things just seeme to be getting sidetracked with Topical's posts which seem to be doing the same thing in a way as what he is blaming others for doing, and that is painting all with the one brush.
Even you Raiser had a thread or post in here not so long ago with a list of names of those involved with the regeneration project and the family members they hired, and if memory serves right you were highlighting what you saw as inefficiencies/nepotism/wastes of money within the regeneration project.
A good and worthy project in concept can be rendered almost worthless by people trying to line their own nests rather than do the job in hand. That is not aimed at Topical or any other landlord, it is aimed at some of the people who were tasked with the running of the project.0 -
Yeah but I don't think anyone is saying that every family rehoused as part of the regeneration is scum.
I thought I picked up a hint of it along the way to be fair....... One brush and a bucket of tar.Even you Raiser had a thread or post in here not so long ago with a list of names of those involved with the regeneration project and the family members they hired, and if memory serves right you were highlighting what you saw as inefficiencies/nepotism/wastes of money within the regeneration project.
I read somewhere that the Limerick Regeneration Project was almost directly borne out of the horrific incident that was the Gavin and Millie attack.
Without going into too much detail I don't think anyone should be feathering their nests, building careers, rewarding themselves with disproportionate wages and saving for Holiday Homes on the back of this or the fact that our City Planning, housing policies etc. over the decades saw fit to create enhance and add to areas which became bottomless social sinkholes.
Regeneration if it was done right could save Limerick - I simply voted no because I have no faith in the process as I see it unfolding and I think that's a real pity.0 -
I thought I picked up a hint of it along the way to be fair....... One brush and a bucket of tar.
I read somewhere that the Limerick Regeneration Project was almost directly borne out of the horrific incident that was the Gavin and Millie attack.
Without going into too much detail I don't think anyone should be feathering their nests, building careers, rewarding themselves with disproportionate wages and saving for Holiday Homes on the back of this or the fact that our City Planning, housing policies etc. over the decades saw fit to create enhance and add to areas which became bottomless social sinkholes.
Regeneration if it was done right could save Limerick - I simply voted no because I have no faith in the process as I see it unfolding and I think that's a real pity.
I don't know about "saving" Limerick, but if it were done right it would indeed do a lot of good for a lot of people and change a lot of lives for the better. The pity is that like yourself, I have no trust in those that wield the power in the project based on what has been done so far, and based on what has come to light on those in charge through local and national media.
I did not vote in the poll because I did not agree fully with any of the options.
Yes the city badly needs a properly executed regeneration plan, probably on an almost city wide basis if I am to be honest, but I don't have any faith in it being done in an honest and productive manner.0 -
Yeah but I don't think anyone is saying that every family rehoused as part of the regeneration is scum.
The topic for the thread was whether or not people see the regeneration project as being a success or a failure so far.
I don't think anybody is arguing that the concept is a bad one.
Things just seeme to be getting sidetracked with Topical's posts which seem to be doing the same thing in a way as what he is blaming others for doing, and that is painting all with the one brush.
Even you Raiser had a thread or post in here not so long ago with a list of names of those involved with the regeneration project and the family members they hired, and if memory serves right you were highlighting what you saw as inefficiencies/nepotism/wastes of money within the regeneration project.
A good and worthy project in concept can be rendered almost worthless by people trying to line their own nests rather than do the job in hand. That is not aimed at Topical or any other landlord, it is aimed at some of the people who were tasked with the running of the project.
Correct.
It is quite shocking how some people can't dicuss the most basic of arguments without going off on tangents.0 -
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I am not guilty of taking this thread off topic as it was already heading that way with the majority of posters before i arrived. It just happens it was heading off topic in a differnet direction.
Tell me what is the "regeneration project" where does it begin and where does it end? This project is made of real people, real lives, real famlies. Most of the posters on this thread know NONE of these people. They have NEVER met one single family - and yet feel they are entitled to an opinion on wether the scheme is a success or not.
I provided a view to the other side of the scheme thru real world experience.0 -
I am not guilty of taking this thread off topic as it was already heading that way with the majority of posters before i arrived. It just happens it was heading off topic in a differnet direction.
Tell me what is the "regeneration project" where does it begin and where does it end? This project is made of real people, real lives, real famlies. Most of the posters on this thread know NONE of these people. They have NEVER met one single family - and yet feel they are entitled to an opinion on wether the scheme is a success or not.
I provided a view to the other side of the scheme thru real world experience.
I don't ecpect a landlord to be against regeneration, it's a bonanza for landlords. We all know that, but that's not the issue.
I believe the people of limerick have been remarkably tolerant of a disgraceful ill executed plan. Our politicians have driven this country into the ground, and limerick has suffered most, and with this shambolic plan, will suffer even more.0 -
I really dont think the idea of improving an environment will improve the attitudes of certain people that live there. Sure they might deserve to live in a nice area, with nice new houses, but who's to say these new houses and new areas wont be destroyed and left the same way such estates currently exist.
Even social workers I know, say regeneration will never work - as long as people have the same attitudes, the areas will stay the same and if new, will deteriorate0 -
I voted No, because I already seen the damage of troublesome families from these areas who help create the mess been moved to other areas in Limerick & Cork before regeneration where the Guards rarely get call out until they Troublesome families arrive in the locality because of the Council and HSE. I have no problem with non-troublesome families moving in to my area. For they will try to raise their family with best intentions and cause less problems for others around them.
This Limerick Regeneration just spread troublesome families along with the good families from the same area (who need a better life) into many good neighbourhoods and destroy them creating a larger mess for the future, where the whole mid west will need regeneration in the future because of the mess of this regeneration Scheme. The Mess is the Failure to deal with troublesome families. This Regeneration in this recession will not solve current problem, it just spread it out and it will grow for everyone else to share in the pain and misery.
They will be Limerick Regeneration 2 which will be Midwest region regeneration scheme in the future.0 -
I am not guilty of taking this thread off topic as it was already heading that way with the majority of posters before i arrived. It just happens it was heading off topic in a differnet direction.
Tell me what is the "regeneration project" where does it begin and where does it end? This project is made of real people, real lives, real famlies. Most of the posters on this thread know NONE of these people. They have NEVER met one single family - and yet feel they are entitled to an opinion on wether the scheme is a success or not.
I provided a view to the other side of the scheme thru real world experience.
It is a pity you were not posting here a few months ago. Real people, who gave their full names, from areas that were meant to be part of the regeneration scheme were talking on here about their experiences, and gave their honest opinions on what they thought of it.
It was enlightening stuff from people with real experience of it. It was also heartbreaking to hear stories from people who had their hopes raised with promises that have still not come through for them.
I don't have the experience of coming from one of the areas earmarked for regeneration in Limerick, but I do have neighbours two doors down who have moved here as part of it. From what I can tell they have should blended in with most people here and are just part of the furniture now. I could not give a rat's ass as to wherever they lived beforehand as this area is their home now, and they are nice enough to flash a salute or have a quick chat with me whenever I pass by. They actually feel more like neighbours than people who have lived in the area longer.
On the other hand a family was moved into a different spot near me, and have become well known in the area for many anti social reasons, including bringing their rubbish 100 yards from their house and throwing it on the ground there, and I mean big black bags of rubbish.
A friend of my mother's is having a horrible time of it in Ballinacurra Gardens at present as she and her husband, both pensioners, have been ridden roughshod over by "tenants" who have had warnings from the landlord who seems to waffle a lot but never actual do anything despite admitting that his tenants are causing problems and damage in the area.
It can be luck of the draw from what I can see in terms of what people get housed in other areas be it as part of the regeneration, social housing schemes or through the HSE. I have said many times on here that in my view the vast majority of people who get rehoused are going to be ordinary decent folk, who in my opinion deserve a chance at a new area and a new start.
A big failure in my eyes is the rehousing of the minority that cause the trouble and who arrive with a track record of anti social behaviour and criminal activities to their name. I see it as a failure as no guidelines seem to be put in place for trouble makers, as in if they do illegal stuff then they are out.0 -
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You have absolutely no way of knowing this if this is true or not. As Kess pointed out, you're as guilty of overgeneralisation as those you're accusing.
Tell me what is the "regeneration project" where does it begin and where does it end? This project is made of real people, real lives, real famlies. Most of the posters on this thread know NONE of these people. They have NEVER met one single family - and yet feel they are entitled to an opinion on wether the scheme is a success or not.
I provided a view to the other side of the scheme thru real world experience.0 -
I really dont think the idea of improving an environment will improve the attitudes of certain people that live there. Sure they might deserve to live in a nice area, with nice new houses, but who's to say these new houses and new areas wont be destroyed and left the same way such estates currently exist.
Even social workers I know, say regeneration will never work - as long as people have the same attitudes, the areas will stay the same and if new, will deteriorate
Are you really listening to your social worker friends? It goes BOTH ways. The people moving into the new areas need to adopt new attitudes (in some cases) and their new neighbors need to have tolerance as well.
My tenant brought a new attitude with him, but was greeted with the harsh negativity from nearly all sides. This began BEFORE he even crossed the threshold of the house. This scenario has been repeated EVERY time I rent out a house.
One tenant I recall caused a stir 5 years ago. I fought with the neighbors who wanted me to evict her the VERY first day. SHe stayed and eventually they gave up on pressuring me. 5 years later she moved, and i went to replace her, i got the same attitude with a new tenant.
A neighbor came over to me with her daughter in tow, claiming she knew my new "potential" tenant personally and that he was a drug dealer/ nasty bit of stuff. I said that he was the 3rd viewing and she was the 3rd person to claim the same thing. I asked her, is everyone renting a drug dealer? Ill never forget her reply.
"Well the previous tenant was grand."
Popular outspoken opinion in Limerick is that the scheme is a waste of time and will only infect/destroy other areas, that we'd be better off keeping people in ghettos. Now that the scheme is in full swing Id rather see a thread that asks what can be done to improve its chances of success.0 -
Please tell the Limerick people on this board where you are renting out your houses. I#m sure a lot of them would like to live beside your saints.0
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Are you really listening to your social worker friends? It goes BOTH ways. The people moving into the new areas need to adopt new attitudes (in some cases) and their new neighbors need to have tolerance as well.
My tenant brought a new attitude with him, but was greeted with the harsh negativity from nearly all sides. This began BEFORE he even crossed the threshold of the house. This scenario has been repeated EVERY time I rent out a house.
One tenant I recall caused a stir 5 years ago. I fought with the neighbors who wanted me to evict her the VERY first day. SHe stayed and eventually they gave up on pressuring me. 5 years later she moved, and i went to replace her, i got the same attitude with a new tenant.
A neighbor came over to me with her daughter in tow, claiming she knew my new "potential" tenant personally and that he was a drug dealer/ nasty bit of stuff. I said that he was the 3rd viewing and she was the 3rd person to claim the same thing. I asked her, is everyone renting a drug dealer? Ill never forget her reply.
"Well the previous tenant was grand."
Popular outspoken opinion in Limerick is that the scheme is a waste of time and will only infect/destroy other areas, that we'd be better off keeping people in ghettos. Now that the scheme is in full swing Id rather see a thread that asks what can be done to improve its chances of success.
Most people I know seem to be of the opinion that it is badly needed and great idea, but has been mismanaged more often than not so far.
I am curious that you say it is in full swing. What makes you think that? I ask because the project is quite a bit behind where it was meant to be at this stage, and the press releases have confirmed that.
The project started three years ago, and there has not even been a spade put in the ground for many of the works that had a 2010 finish date. But yet millions and millions has been spent already with very little impact in terms of improving the quality of life for people.
Plus it was confirmed in Febuary of this year that the 3 billion euro that was supposedly in place for the project did not exist and that a maximun of 25 million euro per year would be available instead. So the 2018 finish date that was in place when 3 billion was available is now gone with no estimated finish date in place.
Brendan Kenny, chief executive of Limerick Regeneration, has said in public that the project that was meant to be an 11 year one from 2007 to 2018 is now looking at taking at least 15 years from when he gave the interview in 2010. Even it that timescale does happen, it puts the project as being 7 years behind target despite being in "full swing" for three years already.
Willie O'Dea, in Febuary again this year, came out with the news that he had been approached by local builders who wanted to invest as he put it "a couple of hundred million" into the project. But like most of Willie's promises and people that he claims to have gotten information from, they don't seem to exist in the cold light of day.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0206/1224263888398.html
So I will ask you again, how is the project in full swing when the Chief executive of the project says that it is not and that it is years behind schedule with literally billions now missing from the cash available for it?0 -
So I will ask you again, how is the project in full swing when the Chief executive of the project says that it is not and that it is years behind schedule with literally billions now missing from the cash available for it?
Have it your way - so the project is not in full swing - and maybe its not even happening at all according to you. Then I ask YOU, why does every whinger on every street corner blame every person that moves into their area as being moved there because of the regeneration scheme?0 -
Then I ask YOU, why does every whinger on every street corner blame every person that moves into their area as being moved there because of the regeneration scheme?
He's provided evidence from a newspaper featuring direct quotes from the people involved. Your evidence is whingers on street corners.0 -
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Have it your way - so the project is not in full swing - and maybe its not even happening at all according to you. Then I ask YOU, why does every whinger on every street corner blame every person that moves into their area as being moved there because of the regeneration scheme?
Well the fact that some on this thread have said they don't think that every person moved into other estates is to do with regeneration pretty much debunks your blanket comment of claiming that everyone says it.
You went on about people making sweeping comments about the families being rehoused, yet you seem very comfortable to make sweeping comments of your own and make out that everyone is against the families that get rehoused, be it through regeneration, social housing or the HSE route.
Plus it is not a case of me having it my way on the project not being in full swing as you claimed it was. It is a fact that one of the guys in charge of it said that it is not, and that it has been downscaled to a massive degree.
I think that his comments on the project carry more weight that anything I could say or anything you could say about the project.0 -
some people on the thread need to take a step back
the regeneration is a great thing,and is much needed and well deserved.
the issue's people here are complaining about involve criminal/anti-social individuals, and families ...... who are by no means representative of majority of folks from the regen areas.
in all of the regen areas combined, there are thousands of families who are decent, and they are the majority, who have been terrorised by a minority of scum
the only difference between you and the decent folk from the regen areas is, in alot of cases, the wage packet, nothing else
saying that everyone from a regen area is anti social/criminal scum is no different to saying that everyone catholic in the north is in the IRA, or that all Muslims are terrorists
and thats stupid
im not saying that nobody has had a bad experience, i have no doubt that some of you have, just remember that most haven't and more than likely wont.
but for the ones that have, or might. you should focus on the individuals, or particular families that are causing you grief and ask why they have been put next door to you to cause you all this hassle? it isn't the regeneration
its the dept. of justice, and legal system for not doing the right thing with the scum to start with
its the city council for housing, and constantly rehousing the same scum over and over without any consideration of the families they are being moved next door to while fully knowing or completely disregarding their criminal/anti-social history
THEY are the ones at fault0 -
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I voted No. It would be a good idea, if they didn't insist on rewarding the troublesome folk with shiny new houses in nice areas. I've had a job since i was 15, paid my taxes and never caused any trouble, would i get a brand new house for free in Raheen? Would i fcuk!! I have no problem with decent folk being rehoused, but when scum are seen to be rewarded for causing nothing but trouble, then it irks me.
But as we all know by now, one law for them, another law for us.0 -
No it won't work....Im from a regen area Im young and even I know the scum living around me will never change :mad:.. Not that I am one myself my mother worked hard all her life bought her house in the regen area as she though it was close to her parents then the drug dealers/murders came along and everyone got influenced...and thing is we ve to stay here as the houses are worth nothing and well its sad...we ve had our cars burned out 4 times!! bins set alight 8 times and threatening abuse of they will ''rape,murder,attack'' us including the littles brother and sisters,who frequently my quite little brother has been always bullied by the scum down here as he won't curse or fight hes 9 . I hate it here. scum shouldn't be moved0
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christmasinjuly wrote: »No it won't work....Im from a regen area Im young and even I know the scum living around me will never change :mad:.. Not that I am one myself my mother worked hard all her life bought her house in the regen area as she though it was close to her parents then the drug dealers/murders came along and everyone got influenced...and thing is we ve to stay here as the houses are worth nothing and well its sad...we ve had our cars burned out 4 times!! bins set alight 8 times and threatening abuse of they will ''rape,murder,attack'' us including the littles brother and sisters,who frequently my quite little brother has been always bullied by the scum down here as he won't curse or fight hes 9 . I hate it here. scum shouldn't be moved
Now, it's people like yourself that most here feel sorry for, and would be glad to see you re-housed.0 -
I don't think regeneration will work at all. It would be lovely to see the good hard working people in those areas given decent homes and nice tidy areas in which to live where all the community keep the place nice and clean but that's not going to happen. the scum like things the way they are and will change anything good to something bad. As to moving people out of those areas into other areas
I can only vouch for my own town. Definitely there has been an influx of Limerick city people ,They and their kids have that strut walk that thugs often have. It's horrible to see. It isn't any of the good ones that come.I can't say they are regeneration for sure, they could be RAS, healthboard or whatever. Do the healthboard/regeneration --whatever think they'll change just 'cus they're moved???? The only ones benefitting are the landlords who are laughing all the way to the bank.0 -
maggot12345 wrote: »I don't think regeneration will work at all. It would be lovely to see the good hard working people in those areas given decent homes and nice tidy areas in which to live where all the community keep the place nice and clean but that's not going to happen. the scum like things the way they are and will change anything good to something bad. As to moving people out of those areas into other areas
I can only vouch for my own town. Definitely there has been an influx of Limerick city people ,They and their kids have that strut walk that thugs often have. It's horrible to see. It isn't any of the good ones that come.I can't say they are regeneration for sure, they could be RAS, healthboard or whatever. Do the healthboard/regeneration --whatever think they'll change just 'cus they're moved???? The only ones benefitting are the landlords who are laughing all the way to the bank.
Ah that's the racism and generalisation I knew would eventually slowly rear its ugly head in thread. But as your opinion is in keeping with the "overall" flow of this thread, im sure you won't be rebuked.
So in general you propose, move them OUT of the bad areas, into new houses in new areas (seperate from everyone else)...0 -
Ah that's the racism and generalisation I knew would eventually slowly rear its ugly head in thread. But as your opinion is in keeping with the "overall" flow of this thread, im sure you won't be rebuked.
So in general you propose, move them OUT of the bad areas, into new houses in new areas (seperate from everyone else)...
Calling racism, love it, Bravo!! Thank god most of the people in the regeneration areas are Irish or you'd really have a field day!
Also why knock the poster for their opinion when the user above, Christmasinjuly, lives there and say's scum shouldn't be moved. The people who live in these areas know the real story. And I haven't seen anyone generalising here, they've said that there is both normal people and scum in these areas. What's the big problem?0 -
Have it your way - so the project is not in full swing - and maybe its not even happening at all according to you. Then I ask YOU, why does every whinger on every street corner blame every person that moves into their area as being moved there because of the regeneration scheme?
Just wondering if anybody else noticed how wastefull and unorganised this whole regeneration thing is at the moment, through my work i've been through Moyross, Southill and Weston and som of the things would be comical if my tax wasn't being used for this... I've seen this.
on many many occasions.
A full row of houses with maby ONE house in the middle lying idol, the demolition people move in and fence off the house to be knocked and ages cutting the front wall of the house between the ajoining houses, then they very slowly and carefully knock the house taking care not to damage the surrounding houses. When all the rubble is eventually removed there's a team of builders left behind to make the area safe and have to rebuild the garden walls of neighbouring houses and also have to build up the gable ends of the two houses either side of knocked house.
As if this isn't stupid and wastefull enough the builders spend another age finishing off the gable ends with pebbledash or red-brick to match exactlly the existing houses. They fit all new facia and sofitts and drainpipes and if needed will even paint the walls. Then they landscape the area between the houses.
One lady told me the builders were outside her house for FIVE weeks and still weren't finished patching up these two houses that were also soon to be knocked,0 -
Have it your way - so the project is not in full swing - and maybe its not even happening at all according to you. Then I ask YOU, why does every whinger on every street corner blame every person that moves into their area as being moved there because of the regeneration scheme?
Just wondering if anybody else noticed how wastefull and unorganised this whole regeneration thing is at the moment, through my work i've been through Moyross, Southill and Weston and som of the things would be comical if my tax wasn't being used for this... I've seen this.
on many many occasions.
A full row of houses with maby ONE house in the middle lying idol, the demolition people move in and fence off the house to be knocked and ages cutting the front wall of the house between the ajoining houses, then they very slowly and carefully knock the house taking care not to damage the surrounding houses. When all the rubble is eventually removed there's a team of builders left behind to make the area safe and have to rebuild the garden walls of neighbouring houses and also have to build up the gable ends of the two houses either side of knocked house.
As if this isn't stupid and wastefull enough the builders spend another age finishing off the gable ends with pebbledash or red-brick to match exactlly the existing houses. They fit all new facia and sofitts and drainpipes and if needed will even paint the walls. Then they landscape the area between the houses.
One lady told me the builders were outside her house for FIVE weeks and still weren't finished patching up these two houses that were also soon to be knocked0 -
Have noticed those houses in Southill that were knocked with a house just standing on its own?! Whats the point in that?0
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Have noticed those houses in Southill that were knocked with a house just standing on its own?! Whats the point in that?
Don't stand in the way of the Gravy Train - Its coming down the tracks and People who like Gravy, including Builders, Committee Members, etc don't and won't ever give a shít how things are actually done or how much money is wasted as long as they all get rich in the process........0
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