Regeneration - Good or Bad ?

liammur

Regeneration, like a lot of things, probably has it's advantages and disadvantages. However, I feel overall it's a negative and has the potential to ruin other areas too.

Kess73

The concept is good.

The execution has been terrible

liammur

Kess73 wrote: »

The concept is good.

The execution has been terrible

Yes, I would 100% agree with you. So reluctantly, I had to vote No.

bazz26

Moving unsociable elements into different areas or giving them new houses doesn't solve anything. It just moves the problem somewhere else and allows it to start up again, so from that aspect Regeneration is a failure for me.

JerryHandbag

bazz26 wrote: »

Moving unsociable elements into different areas or giving them new houses doesn't solve anything. It just moves the problem somewhere else and allows it to start up again, so from that aspect Regeneration is a failure for me.

I agree with this, but the argument against would be "Well, they have to be re-located somewhere". Its a tough one.

Spudmonkey

bazz26 wrote: »

Moving unsociable elements into different areas or giving them new houses doesn't solve anything. It just moves the problem somewhere else and allows it to start up again, so from that aspect Regeneration is a failure for me.

I agree with the concept of it as there are too many places which are complete no-go areas. I also agree with helping the decent people in these areas (a plumber my father knows living off the hyde road, salt of the earth chap, highly regarded by his customers) and would have no hesitation in moving him out or re-building the estate for the likes of him.

Problem is, as bazz26 says, I have heard of two many cases of "unsociable elements" moved in beside ordinary decent people and making their life a living hell. There is no way I would advocate regeneration for people like them. When I hear of them trashing the houses they have been relocated to, why build new houses for them to do the same thing to.

Problem is with regeneration, there is too much of an idea that waving a wand or firing money at a problem will make it disappear. Problem is the ordinary decent folk get lumped in with the scum!

mikemac

South Tipperary are one of the better councils are managing its housing list.
Though has it's own areas with anti-social issues, known throughout the county! Mainly areas in Tipperary town but there are many others.

If there were people on that list I do hope they are not getting skipped by people from the regeneration areas.

One list only.
If someone from Limerick wants to join South Tipperary list then it's the same list as everyone else

So how has Newport and others taken families from Limerick?
The housing list still has thousands on it yet houses are being allocated to Limerick applicants. Is there a fast track process?

Yeah, this comes across as a paraochial post.
Just if you spent years on a housing list in Tipp or Clare and watched houses being allocated to Limerick regeneration project in the last year you'd be wondering what exactly happened.

munstergirl

I really don't see it working, i hope it does, whats the difference if 'anti social' person is living in an old house or new house.

We have all seen the thread on fairview park. Only 1 or 2 families ruined a whole new area.

There are a lot older areas in limerick, not falling to pieces.

With the huge amount of unemployment, just don't see anything changing.

Part of limerick regeneration should be a new prison.

liammur

munstergirl wrote: »

I really don't see it working, i hope it does, whats the difference if 'anti social' person is living in an old house or new house.

We have all seen the thread on fairview park. Only 1 or 2 families ruined a whole new area.

There are a lot older areas in limerick, not falling to pieces.

With the huge amount of unemployment, just don't see anything changing.

Part of limerick regeneration should be a new prison.

That's exactly it. I saw 2 base individuals urinating up against a car in broad daylight in dooradoyle the other day.

I pity their new neighbours.

Raiser

Kess73 wrote: »

The concept is good.

The execution has been terrible

What Kess said.

- Also People need to stop assuming that other People are trouble just by reading their address.

A Scumbag is a Scumbag due to their actions not cause of where they come from.

flutered

it is great for the admins, nice salerys expense accounts etc, etc, just look at the guy in charge of it, is some one does not vent him soon he will explode.

Spudmonkey

Raiser wrote: »

What Kess said.

- Also People need to stop assuming that other People are trouble just by reading their address.

A Scumbag is a Scumbag due to their actions not cause of where they come from.

Unfortunately, the decent ones have to try extra hard to get past the stigma their address gives them!

liammur

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Unfortunately, the decent ones have to try extra hard to get past the stigma their address gives them!

Interesting results so far, 60% against. Probably isn't an accurate reflection as a lot of regeneration folk may not be on the computer, but nonetheless, politicians should take note.

topical

bazz26 wrote: »

Moving unsociable elements into different areas or giving them new houses doesn't solve anything. It just moves the problem somewhere else and allows it to start up again, so from that aspect Regeneration is a failure for me.

I am tired of this attitude. A blanket statement like this used to discredit a program that is attempting to tackle the HUGE problems in Limerick City is rubbish. The hysteria in limerick on what MIGHT happen if the regeneration program is allowed run its course is rampant. Just browse the LK City forum here on boards and read the posts. Just listen to any conversation in ANY middle class neighborhood in Limerick and it will soon be spouting about the regeneration scheme.

Anyone that moves into a "nice neighborhood" that doesnt fit in with the existing social class of their neighbors is being declared as an anti-social element. These concerned homeowners immediately form neighborhood watch groups and begin pressuring the landlord, the local councillor, and any politician that will listen.

Who do they not speak to? The new neighbor that's who. Up come the walls, the sneering, the watching from behind curtains. They galvanise together to find out the "gossip" of who or what these new people are like.

"I heard they burned down their last house!" " Well someone told me they deal drugs" "Nasty bit of stuff the husband I heard!"

Yes, I am a landlord. Yes I have rented houses to people that are in reciept of funds from the state. And yes I have taken many a complaint from a neighbor. Usually BEFORE the tenant ever crosses the threshhold. Ive had concerned citizens ring me, claiming to look out for my best interest. I have yet to meet anyone that makes these blanket statements tell me they have actually stood in front of the tenant and shook their hand, welcome them to the neighborhood, or even say hello from a distance. They would rather pass on the gossip too me to help me decide to KEEP OUT these anti-social people.

I have been lucky. I have met some people that I would never have met in my normal social circle. I have listened to their stories of hard luck and loss. I have looked them in the eye and made a decision on their inner character without prejudice of what they may have done in the past. I have assisted them in making a huge life changing decision in getting out of the terrible area and housing conditions they are leaving - where the city council and government has failed to provide them with a suitable home - I have let them use mine. I have given them trust, and I have told them I require respect and so do their new neighbors. For the most part I have been lucky - maybe Ive only ever got the GOOD people from the bad neighborhood. But how can that be? I have NEVER been able to put a tenant in a house from a poor area without the neighbors protesting.

I know that I will never win votes with my tenants neighbors. I will never get elected to city council. I will never have a party thrown in my honour. But I also know I have looked into the eyes of someone that really needs help - and I have done good. I will get my reward for having an open mind and truly caring about these people. Im no saint - at the end of the day its still business. But my tenant thinks I am.

mikemac

Don't play the martyr topical.
You received rent allowance for taking on those tenants

It's business as you state in your own post , you didn't take on these tenants as you are open minded or caring. You just interviewed them and thought they were reliable and thankfully they were

While once many landlords didn't want these tenants, many would now love to have them on schemes like RAS, a long term contract with a guaranteed rent.

talkingclock

topical, you are obviously new to this board (your reply above is your first posting [wondering if there's something behind]). if you read through a few threads here then you will find out that it already has happened what you call "blanket statements".

topical

Actually I think I am. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyr

Unfollowing thread as I havent the time for the nasty replies im sure i will get from the NIMBY's on this forum. I know the good ive done first hand from meeting social workers and relatives of my tenants.
If the "Regeneration" of this city is ever to work it requires a LOT more people like me and others that will "support" these families daily.

Kess73

topical wrote: »

I am tired of this attitude. A blanket statement like this used to discredit a program that is attempting to tackle the HUGE problems in Limerick City is rubbish. The hysteria in limerick on what MIGHT happen if the regeneration program is allowed run its course is rampant. Just browse the LK City forum here on boards and read the posts. Just listen to any conversation in ANY middle class neighborhood in Limerick and it will soon be spouting about the regeneration scheme.

Anyone that moves into a "nice neighborhood" that doesnt fit in with the existing social class of their neighbors is being declared as an anti-social element. These concerned homeowners immediately form neighborhood watch groups and begin pressuring the landlord, the local councillor, and any politician that will listen.

Who do they not speak to? The new neighbor that's who. Up come the walls, the sneering, the watching from behind curtains. They galvanise together to find out the "gossip" of who or what these new people are like.

"I heard they burned down their last house!" " Well someone told me they deal drugs" "Nasty bit of stuff the husband I heard!"

Yes, I am a landlord. Yes I have rented houses to people that are in reciept of funds from the state. And yes I have taken many a complaint from a neighbor. Usually BEFORE the tenant ever crosses the threshhold. Ive had concerned citizens ring me, claiming to look out for my best interest. I have yet to meet anyone that makes these blanket statements tell me they have actually stood in front of the tenant and shook their hand, welcome them to the neighborhood, or even say hello from a distance. They would rather pass on the gossip too me to help me decide to KEEP OUT these anti-social people.

I have been lucky. I have met some people that I would never have met in my normal social circle. I have listened to their stories of hard luck and loss. I have looked them in the eye and made a decision on their inner character without prejudice of what they may have done in the past. I have assisted them in making a huge life changing decision in getting out of the terrible area and housing conditions they are leaving - where the city council and government has failed to provide them with a suitable home - I have let them use mine. I have given them trust, and I have told them I require respect and so do their new neighbors. For the most part I have been lucky - maybe Ive only ever got the GOOD people from the bad neighborhood. But how can that be? I have NEVER been able to put a tenant in a house from a poor area without the neighbors protesting.

I know that I will never win votes with my tenants neighbors. I will never get elected to city council. I will never have a party thrown in my honour. But I also know I have looked into the eyes of someone that really needs help - and I have done good. I will get my reward for having an open mind and truly caring about these people. Im no saint - at the end of the day its still business. But my tenant thinks I am.

So you looked into the eyes of someone who needed help and got paid for letting them stay in your property? Seems to me you have already gotten your reward for renting out your property. So yep, you are no saint, you are someone charging a fee for a service you provide, and power to you for being in a position to earn money through your property investment. If your method of earning income does something good for a family in the process, then I am all for that.


Personally having "nice" neighbours has nothing to do with where they last lived, it is about how they act.

Scumbags don't come from any set area or from any one walk of life.

Also a person thinking that the regeneration project to date is flawed is not the same thing as a person thinking that all the regeneration project means is putting scum into other areas.

I think the project has been flawed to date, and I also think that the project left a hell of a lot of people down. People who were led to believe that the project would be making a big difference in their lives. Good decent people who may be living in unpleasant conditions through no fault of their own.

Things like the big wages being paid to big wigs involved in the project and various family members getting lush positions despite, in at least two cases that have been reported in the national media, having no qualifications or experience in the roles that they are now being paid for.

Yes there have been cases of problem people getting housed in areas where they have gone on to cause probloems of a criminal nature. Some of these have been moved as part of the regeneration project, but I suspect most of these people who are involved in criminal activities are housed by other organisations that are not part of the regeneration project.

munstergirl

I would say every area of the city/ireland has rented houses, in this economic climate most landlords will take rent allowance.

I would say thousands of people are renting in limerick/ireland does not make them a 'anti social' or cause protests. some of limericks 'anti social' own their own houses paid for in cash.

It will only take 1 'anti social' family to move into an investment properties, and you can say good bye to your investment.

kilburn

Raiser wrote: »

What Kess said.

- Also People need to stop assuming that other People are trouble just by reading their address.

A Scumbag is a Scumbag due to their actions not cause of where they come from.

100% agree with both of these.
The status quo has to change though.

Berty

I choose the middle class option as they were no suitable options. There never are really because nobody will ever agree.

I don't believe its good for ANYBODY because it only perpetuates the problems that are being created by social housing.

(1) Have a house because you're too lazy to work( doesnt apply to all)
(2) Wreck the house and the area around you (the minority but it still ruins the whole area)
(3) That's OK. The council will pick up the tab and build you ALL new houses
(4) Here, have a new house in a middle class area
(5) "Please move back to the regenerated area"

Social housing person to council official

"Move back, yeah right Im living in this middle class area with my children having automatic rights to a better school, you must be joking"

The main issue I hold is that if you keep handing things to people they will never want to "GET" things themselves by trying harder. Their children will be the same.

I know this from personal experience. I see it everyday of my life.

maggot12345

topical wrote: »

I am tired of this attitude. A blanket statement like this used to discredit a program that is attempting to tackle the HUGE problems in Limerick City is rubbish. The hysteria in limerick on what MIGHT happen if the regeneration program is allowed run its course is rampant. Just browse the LK City forum here on boards and read the posts. Just listen to any conversation in ANY middle class neighborhood in Limerick and it will soon be spouting about the regeneration scheme.

Anyone that moves into a "nice neighborhood" that doesnt fit in with the existing social class of their neighbors is being declared as an anti-social element. These concerned homeowners immediately form neighborhood watch groups and begin pressuring the landlord, the local councillor, and any politician that will listen.

Who do they not speak to? The new neighbor that's who. Up come the walls, the sneering, the watching from behind curtains. They galvanise together to find out the "gossip" of who or what these new people are like.

"I heard they burned down their last house!" " Well someone told me they deal drugs" "Nasty bit of stuff the husband I heard!"

Yes, I am a landlord. Yes I have rented houses to people that are in reciept of funds from the state. And yes I have taken many a complaint from a neighbor. Usually BEFORE the tenant ever crosses the threshhold. Ive had concerned citizens ring me, claiming to look out for my best interest. I have yet to meet anyone that makes these blanket statements tell me they have actually stood in front of the tenant and shook their hand, welcome them to the neighborhood, or even say hello from a distance. They would rather pass on the gossip too me to help me decide to KEEP OUT these anti-social people.

I have been lucky. I have met some people that I would never have met in my normal social circle. I have listened to their stories of hard luck and loss. I have looked them in the eye and made a decision on their inner character without prejudice of what they may have done in the past. I have assisted them in making a huge life changing decision in getting out of the terrible area and housing conditions they are leaving - where the city council and government has failed to provide them with a suitable home - I have let them use mine. I have given them trust, and I have told them I require respect and so do their new neighbors. For the most part I have been lucky - maybe Ive only ever got the GOOD people from the bad neighborhood. But how can that be? I have NEVER been able to put a tenant in a house from a poor area without the neighbors protesting.

I know that I will never win votes with my tenants neighbors. I will never get elected to city council. I will never have a party thrown in my honour. But I also know I have looked into the eyes of someone that really needs help - and I have done good. I will get my reward for having an open mind and truly caring about these people. Im no saint - at the end of the day its still business. But my tenant thinks I am.

I wonder how many of these people would you put living beside yourself????? Not too many I dare say. None even. You make yourself sound like a saint when you;re the very person who would go ape if they lived on your own road or beside you. It's all about lining your pockets with handy money from the state not because you're trying to help some poor person who's fallen on hard times. And why would your neighbours protest--well maybe their house is a home and yours is just an investment for you. You don't give a hoot about them!!!!!!:mad:

liammur

topical wrote: »

I am tired of this attitude. A blanket statement like this used to discredit a program that is attempting to tackle the HUGE problems in Limerick City is rubbish. The hysteria in limerick on what MIGHT happen if the regeneration program is allowed run its course is rampant. Just browse the LK City forum here on boards and read the posts. Just listen to any conversation in ANY middle class neighborhood in Limerick and it will soon be spouting about the regeneration scheme.

Anyone that moves into a "nice neighborhood" that doesnt fit in with the existing social class of their neighbors is being declared as an anti-social element. These concerned homeowners immediately form neighborhood watch groups and begin pressuring the landlord, the local councillor, and any politician that will listen.

Who do they not speak to? The new neighbor that's who. Up come the walls, the sneering, the watching from behind curtains. They galvanise together to find out the "gossip" of who or what these new people are like.

"I heard they burned down their last house!" " Well someone told me they deal drugs" "Nasty bit of stuff the husband I heard!"

Yes, I am a landlord. Yes I have rented houses to people that are in reciept of funds from the state. And yes I have taken many a complaint from a neighbor. Usually BEFORE the tenant ever crosses the threshhold. Ive had concerned citizens ring me, claiming to look out for my best interest. I have yet to meet anyone that makes these blanket statements tell me they have actually stood in front of the tenant and shook their hand, welcome them to the neighborhood, or even say hello from a distance. They would rather pass on the gossip too me to help me decide to KEEP OUT these anti-social people.

I have been lucky. I have met some people that I would never have met in my normal social circle. I have listened to their stories of hard luck and loss. I have looked them in the eye and made a decision on their inner character without prejudice of what they may have done in the past. I have assisted them in making a huge life changing decision in getting out of the terrible area and housing conditions they are leaving - where the city council and government has failed to provide them with a suitable home - I have let them use mine. I have given them trust, and I have told them I require respect and so do their new neighbors. For the most part I have been lucky - maybe Ive only ever got the GOOD people from the bad neighborhood. But how can that be? I have NEVER been able to put a tenant in a house from a poor area without the neighbors protesting.

I know that I will never win votes with my tenants neighbors. I will never get elected to city council. I will never have a party thrown in my honour. But I also know I have looked into the eyes of someone that really needs help - and I have done good. I will get my reward for having an open mind and truly caring about these people. Im no saint - at the end of the day its still business. But my tenant thinks I am.

Landlords are laughing all the way to the bank with an inept and crony driven government. Government should be paying you no more than €400 p.mth. for a house.

Story_Bud

Come on your classed as scum from the type clothes you wear .. your accent & where you live. people dont see that its just local accent & style.Not every thing is so black & white

Kess73

Story_Bud wrote: »

Come on your classed as scum from the type clothes you wear .. your accent & where you live. people dont see that its just local accent & style.Not every thing is so black & white

Not everyone hears an accent or looks at a style of clothing and decides what the person is like from that.


As I said earlier, it is how people act that decides whether they are decent folk or not. Some of the nastiest types that I have met in Limerick have come from areas that seem to be regarded as good or posh (well what passes for posh in Limerick anyway) areas.

I just don't buy into the whole tracksuit equals scumbag myth. It is rubbish in my eyes

But if you behave like a scumbag and intimidate people/break the law/make it hard for others to live in an area, at that point I regard you as a scumbag and your accent or clothes don't come into it.

Story_Bud

Fair point but some people are like that and i agree on makin life hard for others is acted like a scumbag but there is more to meets the eye like you have to ask why did it happen

topical

maggot12345 wrote: »

I wonder how many of these people would you put living beside yourself????? Not too many I dare say. None even. You make yourself sound like a saint when you;re the very person who would go ape if they lived on your own road or beside you. It's all about lining your pockets with handy money from the state not because you're trying to help some poor person who's fallen on hard times. And why would your neighbours protest--well maybe their house is a home and yours is just an investment for you. You don't give a hoot about them!!!!!!:mad:

So you know me so well then? I think you dont. I stood up for a family that moved "onto my road" when all my neighbors organized a collection to "pay them off" to get them to move out.

I have rented to middle class "professional" couples for more money than the state will provide, and guess what, MORE hassle! Sure my neighbors never knocked on my door to complain, as they looked the part, but I was stuck with the hassle of these well to do problem tenants.

I bet you have never had any experience as a landlord, and yet you seem to have all the answers. I advertise for renters, i never qualify my add with NO RA - not even when times were booming. I meet every person, and listen to them and what they have to say - I dont hide in fear and ask my freinds or neighbors what they think first.

Im just tired of the loudmouth complainers of this city that give out about the system and yet dont have any real experience with the cities problems or how to solve them.

Millie

topical wrote: »

So you know me so well then? I think you dont. I stood up for a family that moved "onto my road" when all my neighbors organized a collection to "pay them off" to get them to move out.

I have rented to middle class "professional" couples for more money than the state will provide, and guess what, MORE hassle! Sure my neighbors never knocked on my door to complain, as they looked the part, but I was stuck with the hassle of these well to do problem tenants.

I bet you have never had any experience as a landlord, and yet you seem to have all the answers. I advertise for renters, i never qualify my add with NO RA - not even when times were booming. I meet every person, and listen to them and what they have to say - I dont hide in fear and ask my freinds or neighbors what they think first.

Im just tired of the loudmouth complainers of this city that give out about the system and yet dont have any real experience with the cities problems or how to solve them.

Get off the cross you are no saviour of the downtrodden but a business person happy to rent our your property.
But if were like me who was subjected to the most gross of anti social behaviour by them then your tune would change.
I was nothing but nice to this family and gave them milk, sugar etc when they knocked on my door but what did this get me....my house broken into and my car stolen by them...
So stop pretending your are on a cursade...

Raiser

In fairness Topical has made the point that he has rented to Folks that have turned out to be decent, trustworthy and trouble free.

Nobody has any right to prejudge any individual or Family simply because their previous address, personal wealth or whatever else is not seen as being on par with their own marvellous standards.

Regeneration is a way out for lots of Folks that have had to put up with our City's horrific ideas on City Planning for decades and most of them deserve their break.

So why not leave the hand-wringing and fretful whining until there is actually an issue?

- It is a fact that if a Family moves into your Road hoping for a nice quiet life and you can't meet them with an open mind and extend them the courtesy of a handshake and a decent welcome then you are sadly lacking in character and decency.

topical

Raiser you were much better at explaining my point exactly. thanks.

topical

Millie wrote: »

Get off the cross you are no saviour of the downtrodden but a business person happy to rent our your property.
But if were like me who was subjected to the most gross of anti social behaviour by them then your tune would change.
I was nothing but nice to this family and gave them milk, sugar etc when they knocked on my door but what did this get me....my house broken into and my car stolen by them...
So stop pretending your are on a cursade...

Renting one house does not make you a business person or a saviour of a people. Try this next week. Turn that frown upside down and see how your world changes for you as you walk out in that big bad world out there. Look for the good in people - and stop assuming the worst first.