Regeneration - Good or Bad ?

liammur

Regeneration, like a lot of things, probably has it's advantages and disadvantages. However, I feel overall it's a negative and has the potential to ruin other areas too.

Kess73

The concept is good.

The execution has been terrible

liammur

Kess73 wrote: »

The concept is good.

The execution has been terrible

Yes, I would 100% agree with you. So reluctantly, I had to vote No.

bazz26

Moving unsociable elements into different areas or giving them new houses doesn't solve anything. It just moves the problem somewhere else and allows it to start up again, so from that aspect Regeneration is a failure for me.

JerryHandbag

bazz26 wrote: »

Moving unsociable elements into different areas or giving them new houses doesn't solve anything. It just moves the problem somewhere else and allows it to start up again, so from that aspect Regeneration is a failure for me.

I agree with this, but the argument against would be "Well, they have to be re-located somewhere". Its a tough one.

Spudmonkey

bazz26 wrote: »

Moving unsociable elements into different areas or giving them new houses doesn't solve anything. It just moves the problem somewhere else and allows it to start up again, so from that aspect Regeneration is a failure for me.

I agree with the concept of it as there are too many places which are complete no-go areas. I also agree with helping the decent people in these areas (a plumber my father knows living off the hyde road, salt of the earth chap, highly regarded by his customers) and would have no hesitation in moving him out or re-building the estate for the likes of him.

Problem is, as bazz26 says, I have heard of two many cases of "unsociable elements" moved in beside ordinary decent people and making their life a living hell. There is no way I would advocate regeneration for people like them. When I hear of them trashing the houses they have been relocated to, why build new houses for them to do the same thing to.

Problem is with regeneration, there is too much of an idea that waving a wand or firing money at a problem will make it disappear. Problem is the ordinary decent folk get lumped in with the scum!

mikemac

South Tipperary are one of the better councils are managing its housing list.
Though has it's own areas with anti-social issues, known throughout the county! Mainly areas in Tipperary town but there are many others.

If there were people on that list I do hope they are not getting skipped by people from the regeneration areas.

One list only.
If someone from Limerick wants to join South Tipperary list then it's the same list as everyone else

So how has Newport and others taken families from Limerick?
The housing list still has thousands on it yet houses are being allocated to Limerick applicants. Is there a fast track process?

Yeah, this comes across as a paraochial post.
Just if you spent years on a housing list in Tipp or Clare and watched houses being allocated to Limerick regeneration project in the last year you'd be wondering what exactly happened.

munstergirl

I really don't see it working, i hope it does, whats the difference if 'anti social' person is living in an old house or new house.

We have all seen the thread on fairview park. Only 1 or 2 families ruined a whole new area.

There are a lot older areas in limerick, not falling to pieces.

With the huge amount of unemployment, just don't see anything changing.

Part of limerick regeneration should be a new prison.

liammur

munstergirl wrote: »

I really don't see it working, i hope it does, whats the difference if 'anti social' person is living in an old house or new house.

We have all seen the thread on fairview park. Only 1 or 2 families ruined a whole new area.

There are a lot older areas in limerick, not falling to pieces.

With the huge amount of unemployment, just don't see anything changing.

Part of limerick regeneration should be a new prison.

That's exactly it. I saw 2 base individuals urinating up against a car in broad daylight in dooradoyle the other day.

I pity their new neighbours.

Raiser

Kess73 wrote: »

The concept is good.

The execution has been terrible

What Kess said.

- Also People need to stop assuming that other People are trouble just by reading their address.

A Scumbag is a Scumbag due to their actions not cause of where they come from.

flutered

it is great for the admins, nice salerys expense accounts etc, etc, just look at the guy in charge of it, is some one does not vent him soon he will explode.

Spudmonkey

Raiser wrote: »

What Kess said.

- Also People need to stop assuming that other People are trouble just by reading their address.

A Scumbag is a Scumbag due to their actions not cause of where they come from.

Unfortunately, the decent ones have to try extra hard to get past the stigma their address gives them!

liammur

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Unfortunately, the decent ones have to try extra hard to get past the stigma their address gives them!

Interesting results so far, 60% against. Probably isn't an accurate reflection as a lot of regeneration folk may not be on the computer, but nonetheless, politicians should take note.

topical

bazz26 wrote: »

Moving unsociable elements into different areas or giving them new houses doesn't solve anything. It just moves the problem somewhere else and allows it to start up again, so from that aspect Regeneration is a failure for me.

I am tired of this attitude. A blanket statement like this used to discredit a program that is attempting to tackle the HUGE problems in Limerick City is rubbish. The hysteria in limerick on what MIGHT happen if the regeneration program is allowed run its course is rampant. Just browse the LK City forum here on boards and read the posts. Just listen to any conversation in ANY middle class neighborhood in Limerick and it will soon be spouting about the regeneration scheme.

Anyone that moves into a "nice neighborhood" that doesnt fit in with the existing social class of their neighbors is being declared as an anti-social element. These concerned homeowners immediately form neighborhood watch groups and begin pressuring the landlord, the local councillor, and any politician that will listen.

Who do they not speak to? The new neighbor that's who. Up come the walls, the sneering, the watching from behind curtains. They galvanise together to find out the "gossip" of who or what these new people are like.

"I heard they burned down their last house!" " Well someone told me they deal drugs" "Nasty bit of stuff the husband I heard!"

Yes, I am a landlord. Yes I have rented houses to people that are in reciept of funds from the state. And yes I have taken many a complaint from a neighbor. Usually BEFORE the tenant ever crosses the threshhold. Ive had concerned citizens ring me, claiming to look out for my best interest. I have yet to meet anyone that makes these blanket statements tell me they have actually stood in front of the tenant and shook their hand, welcome them to the neighborhood, or even say hello from a distance. They would rather pass on the gossip too me to help me decide to KEEP OUT these anti-social people.

I have been lucky. I have met some people that I would never have met in my normal social circle. I have listened to their stories of hard luck and loss. I have looked them in the eye and made a decision on their inner character without prejudice of what they may have done in the past. I have assisted them in making a huge life changing decision in getting out of the terrible area and housing conditions they are leaving - where the city council and government has failed to provide them with a suitable home - I have let them use mine. I have given them trust, and I have told them I require respect and so do their new neighbors. For the most part I have been lucky - maybe Ive only ever got the GOOD people from the bad neighborhood. But how can that be? I have NEVER been able to put a tenant in a house from a poor area without the neighbors protesting.

I know that I will never win votes with my tenants neighbors. I will never get elected to city council. I will never have a party thrown in my honour. But I also know I have looked into the eyes of someone that really needs help - and I have done good. I will get my reward for having an open mind and truly caring about these people. Im no saint - at the end of the day its still business. But my tenant thinks I am.

mikemac

Don't play the martyr topical.
You received rent allowance for taking on those tenants

It's business as you state in your own post , you didn't take on these tenants as you are open minded or caring. You just interviewed them and thought they were reliable and thankfully they were

While once many landlords didn't want these tenants, many would now love to have them on schemes like RAS, a long term contract with a guaranteed rent.

talkingclock

topical, you are obviously new to this board (your reply above is your first posting [wondering if there's something behind]). if you read through a few threads here then you will find out that it already has happened what you call "blanket statements".

topical

Actually I think I am. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyr

Unfollowing thread as I havent the time for the nasty replies im sure i will get from the NIMBY's on this forum. I know the good ive done first hand from meeting social workers and relatives of my tenants.
If the "Regeneration" of this city is ever to work it requires a LOT more people like me and others that will "support" these families daily.

Kess73

topical wrote: »

I am tired of this attitude. A blanket statement like this used to discredit a program that is attempting to tackle the HUGE problems in Limerick City is rubbish. The hysteria in limerick on what MIGHT happen if the regeneration program is allowed run its course is rampant. Just browse the LK City forum here on boards and read the posts. Just listen to any conversation in ANY middle class neighborhood in Limerick and it will soon be spouting about the regeneration scheme.

Anyone that moves into a "nice neighborhood" that doesnt fit in with the existing social class of their neighbors is being declared as an anti-social element. These concerned homeowners immediately form neighborhood watch groups and begin pressuring the landlord, the local councillor, and any politician that will listen.

Who do they not speak to? The new neighbor that's who. Up come the walls, the sneering, the watching from behind curtains. They galvanise together to find out the "gossip" of who or what these new people are like.

"I heard they burned down their last house!" " Well someone told me they deal drugs" "Nasty bit of stuff the husband I heard!"

Yes, I am a landlord. Yes I have rented houses to people that are in reciept of funds from the state. And yes I have taken many a complaint from a neighbor. Usually BEFORE the tenant ever crosses the threshhold. Ive had concerned citizens ring me, claiming to look out for my best interest. I have yet to meet anyone that makes these blanket statements tell me they have actually stood in front of the tenant and shook their hand, welcome them to the neighborhood, or even say hello from a distance. They would rather pass on the gossip too me to help me decide to KEEP OUT these anti-social people.

I have been lucky. I have met some people that I would never have met in my normal social circle. I have listened to their stories of hard luck and loss. I have looked them in the eye and made a decision on their inner character without prejudice of what they may have done in the past. I have assisted them in making a huge life changing decision in getting out of the terrible area and housing conditions they are leaving - where the city council and government has failed to provide them with a suitable home - I have let them use mine. I have given them trust, and I have told them I require respect and so do their new neighbors. For the most part I have been lucky - maybe Ive only ever got the GOOD people from the bad neighborhood. But how can that be? I have NEVER been able to put a tenant in a house from a poor area without the neighbors protesting.

I know that I will never win votes with my tenants neighbors. I will never get elected to city council. I will never have a party thrown in my honour. But I also know I have looked into the eyes of someone that really needs help - and I have done good. I will get my reward for having an open mind and truly caring about these people. Im no saint - at the end of the day its still business. But my tenant thinks I am.

So you looked into the eyes of someone who needed help and got paid for letting them stay in your property? Seems to me you have already gotten your reward for renting out your property. So yep, you are no saint, you are someone charging a fee for a service you provide, and power to you for being in a position to earn money through your property investment. If your method of earning income does something good for a family in the process, then I am all for that.


Personally having "nice" neighbours has nothing to do with where they last lived, it is about how they act.

Scumbags don't come from any set area or from any one walk of life.

Also a person thinking that the regeneration project to date is flawed is not the same thing as a person thinking that all the regeneration project means is putting scum into other areas.

I think the project has been flawed to date, and I also think that the project left a hell of a lot of people down. People who were led to believe that the project would be making a big difference in their lives. Good decent people who may be living in unpleasant conditions through no fault of their own.

Things like the big wages being paid to big wigs involved in the project and various family members getting lush positions despite, in at least two cases that have been reported in the national media, having no qualifications or experience in the roles that they are now being paid for.

Yes there have been cases of problem people getting housed in areas where they have gone on to cause probloems of a criminal nature. Some of these have been moved as part of the regeneration project, but I suspect most of these people who are involved in criminal activities are housed by other organisations that are not part of the regeneration project.

munstergirl

I would say every area of the city/ireland has rented houses, in this economic climate most landlords will take rent allowance.

I would say thousands of people are renting in limerick/ireland does not make them a 'anti social' or cause protests. some of limericks 'anti social' own their own houses paid for in cash.

It will only take 1 'anti social' family to move into an investment properties, and you can say good bye to your investment.

kilburn

Raiser wrote: »

What Kess said.

- Also People need to stop assuming that other People are trouble just by reading their address.

A Scumbag is a Scumbag due to their actions not cause of where they come from.

100% agree with both of these.
The status quo has to change though.

Berty

I choose the middle class option as they were no suitable options. There never are really because nobody will ever agree.

I don't believe its good for ANYBODY because it only perpetuates the problems that are being created by social housing.

(1) Have a house because you're too lazy to work( doesnt apply to all)
(2) Wreck the house and the area around you (the minority but it still ruins the whole area)
(3) That's OK. The council will pick up the tab and build you ALL new houses
(4) Here, have a new house in a middle class area
(5) "Please move back to the regenerated area"

Social housing person to council official

"Move back, yeah right Im living in this middle class area with my children having automatic rights to a better school, you must be joking"

The main issue I hold is that if you keep handing things to people they will never want to "GET" things themselves by trying harder. Their children will be the same.

I know this from personal experience. I see it everyday of my life.

maggot12345

topical wrote: »

I am tired of this attitude. A blanket statement like this used to discredit a program that is attempting to tackle the HUGE problems in Limerick City is rubbish. The hysteria in limerick on what MIGHT happen if the regeneration program is allowed run its course is rampant. Just browse the LK City forum here on boards and read the posts. Just listen to any conversation in ANY middle class neighborhood in Limerick and it will soon be spouting about the regeneration scheme.

Anyone that moves into a "nice neighborhood" that doesnt fit in with the existing social class of their neighbors is being declared as an anti-social element. These concerned homeowners immediately form neighborhood watch groups and begin pressuring the landlord, the local councillor, and any politician that will listen.

Who do they not speak to? The new neighbor that's who. Up come the walls, the sneering, the watching from behind curtains. They galvanise together to find out the "gossip" of who or what these new people are like.

"I heard they burned down their last house!" " Well someone told me they deal drugs" "Nasty bit of stuff the husband I heard!"

Yes, I am a landlord. Yes I have rented houses to people that are in reciept of funds from the state. And yes I have taken many a complaint from a neighbor. Usually BEFORE the tenant ever crosses the threshhold. Ive had concerned citizens ring me, claiming to look out for my best interest. I have yet to meet anyone that makes these blanket statements tell me they have actually stood in front of the tenant and shook their hand, welcome them to the neighborhood, or even say hello from a distance. They would rather pass on the gossip too me to help me decide to KEEP OUT these anti-social people.

I have been lucky. I have met some people that I would never have met in my normal social circle. I have listened to their stories of hard luck and loss. I have looked them in the eye and made a decision on their inner character without prejudice of what they may have done in the past. I have assisted them in making a huge life changing decision in getting out of the terrible area and housing conditions they are leaving - where the city council and government has failed to provide them with a suitable home - I have let them use mine. I have given them trust, and I have told them I require respect and so do their new neighbors. For the most part I have been lucky - maybe Ive only ever got the GOOD people from the bad neighborhood. But how can that be? I have NEVER been able to put a tenant in a house from a poor area without the neighbors protesting.

I know that I will never win votes with my tenants neighbors. I will never get elected to city council. I will never have a party thrown in my honour. But I also know I have looked into the eyes of someone that really needs help - and I have done good. I will get my reward for having an open mind and truly caring about these people. Im no saint - at the end of the day its still business. But my tenant thinks I am.

I wonder how many of these people would you put living beside yourself????? Not too many I dare say. None even. You make yourself sound like a saint when you;re the very person who would go ape if they lived on your own road or beside you. It's all about lining your pockets with handy money from the state not because you're trying to help some poor person who's fallen on hard times. And why would your neighbours protest--well maybe their house is a home and yours is just an investment for you. You don't give a hoot about them!!!!!!:mad:

liammur

topical wrote: »

I am tired of this attitude. A blanket statement like this used to discredit a program that is attempting to tackle the HUGE problems in Limerick City is rubbish. The hysteria in limerick on what MIGHT happen if the regeneration program is allowed run its course is rampant. Just browse the LK City forum here on boards and read the posts. Just listen to any conversation in ANY middle class neighborhood in Limerick and it will soon be spouting about the regeneration scheme.

Anyone that moves into a "nice neighborhood" that doesnt fit in with the existing social class of their neighbors is being declared as an anti-social element. These concerned homeowners immediately form neighborhood watch groups and begin pressuring the landlord, the local councillor, and any politician that will listen.

Who do they not speak to? The new neighbor that's who. Up come the walls, the sneering, the watching from behind curtains. They galvanise together to find out the "gossip" of who or what these new people are like.

"I heard they burned down their last house!" " Well someone told me they deal drugs" "Nasty bit of stuff the husband I heard!"

Yes, I am a landlord. Yes I have rented houses to people that are in reciept of funds from the state. And yes I have taken many a complaint from a neighbor. Usually BEFORE the tenant ever crosses the threshhold. Ive had concerned citizens ring me, claiming to look out for my best interest. I have yet to meet anyone that makes these blanket statements tell me they have actually stood in front of the tenant and shook their hand, welcome them to the neighborhood, or even say hello from a distance. They would rather pass on the gossip too me to help me decide to KEEP OUT these anti-social people.

I have been lucky. I have met some people that I would never have met in my normal social circle. I have listened to their stories of hard luck and loss. I have looked them in the eye and made a decision on their inner character without prejudice of what they may have done in the past. I have assisted them in making a huge life changing decision in getting out of the terrible area and housing conditions they are leaving - where the city council and government has failed to provide them with a suitable home - I have let them use mine. I have given them trust, and I have told them I require respect and so do their new neighbors. For the most part I have been lucky - maybe Ive only ever got the GOOD people from the bad neighborhood. But how can that be? I have NEVER been able to put a tenant in a house from a poor area without the neighbors protesting.

I know that I will never win votes with my tenants neighbors. I will never get elected to city council. I will never have a party thrown in my honour. But I also know I have looked into the eyes of someone that really needs help - and I have done good. I will get my reward for having an open mind and truly caring about these people. Im no saint - at the end of the day its still business. But my tenant thinks I am.

Landlords are laughing all the way to the bank with an inept and crony driven government. Government should be paying you no more than €400 p.mth. for a house.

Story_Bud

Come on your classed as scum from the type clothes you wear .. your accent & where you live. people dont see that its just local accent & style.Not every thing is so black & white

Kess73

Story_Bud wrote: »

Come on your classed as scum from the type clothes you wear .. your accent & where you live. people dont see that its just local accent & style.Not every thing is so black & white

Not everyone hears an accent or looks at a style of clothing and decides what the person is like from that.


As I said earlier, it is how people act that decides whether they are decent folk or not. Some of the nastiest types that I have met in Limerick have come from areas that seem to be regarded as good or posh (well what passes for posh in Limerick anyway) areas.

I just don't buy into the whole tracksuit equals scumbag myth. It is rubbish in my eyes

But if you behave like a scumbag and intimidate people/break the law/make it hard for others to live in an area, at that point I regard you as a scumbag and your accent or clothes don't come into it.

Story_Bud

Fair point but some people are like that and i agree on makin life hard for others is acted like a scumbag but there is more to meets the eye like you have to ask why did it happen

topical

maggot12345 wrote: »

I wonder how many of these people would you put living beside yourself????? Not too many I dare say. None even. You make yourself sound like a saint when you;re the very person who would go ape if they lived on your own road or beside you. It's all about lining your pockets with handy money from the state not because you're trying to help some poor person who's fallen on hard times. And why would your neighbours protest--well maybe their house is a home and yours is just an investment for you. You don't give a hoot about them!!!!!!:mad:

So you know me so well then? I think you dont. I stood up for a family that moved "onto my road" when all my neighbors organized a collection to "pay them off" to get them to move out.

I have rented to middle class "professional" couples for more money than the state will provide, and guess what, MORE hassle! Sure my neighbors never knocked on my door to complain, as they looked the part, but I was stuck with the hassle of these well to do problem tenants.

I bet you have never had any experience as a landlord, and yet you seem to have all the answers. I advertise for renters, i never qualify my add with NO RA - not even when times were booming. I meet every person, and listen to them and what they have to say - I dont hide in fear and ask my freinds or neighbors what they think first.

Im just tired of the loudmouth complainers of this city that give out about the system and yet dont have any real experience with the cities problems or how to solve them.

Millie

topical wrote: »

So you know me so well then? I think you dont. I stood up for a family that moved "onto my road" when all my neighbors organized a collection to "pay them off" to get them to move out.

I have rented to middle class "professional" couples for more money than the state will provide, and guess what, MORE hassle! Sure my neighbors never knocked on my door to complain, as they looked the part, but I was stuck with the hassle of these well to do problem tenants.

I bet you have never had any experience as a landlord, and yet you seem to have all the answers. I advertise for renters, i never qualify my add with NO RA - not even when times were booming. I meet every person, and listen to them and what they have to say - I dont hide in fear and ask my freinds or neighbors what they think first.

Im just tired of the loudmouth complainers of this city that give out about the system and yet dont have any real experience with the cities problems or how to solve them.

Get off the cross you are no saviour of the downtrodden but a business person happy to rent our your property.
But if were like me who was subjected to the most gross of anti social behaviour by them then your tune would change.
I was nothing but nice to this family and gave them milk, sugar etc when they knocked on my door but what did this get me....my house broken into and my car stolen by them...
So stop pretending your are on a cursade...

Raiser

In fairness Topical has made the point that he has rented to Folks that have turned out to be decent, trustworthy and trouble free.

Nobody has any right to prejudge any individual or Family simply because their previous address, personal wealth or whatever else is not seen as being on par with their own marvellous standards.

Regeneration is a way out for lots of Folks that have had to put up with our City's horrific ideas on City Planning for decades and most of them deserve their break.

So why not leave the hand-wringing and fretful whining until there is actually an issue?

- It is a fact that if a Family moves into your Road hoping for a nice quiet life and you can't meet them with an open mind and extend them the courtesy of a handshake and a decent welcome then you are sadly lacking in character and decency.

topical

Raiser you were much better at explaining my point exactly. thanks.

topical

Millie wrote: »

Get off the cross you are no saviour of the downtrodden but a business person happy to rent our your property.
But if were like me who was subjected to the most gross of anti social behaviour by them then your tune would change.
I was nothing but nice to this family and gave them milk, sugar etc when they knocked on my door but what did this get me....my house broken into and my car stolen by them...
So stop pretending your are on a cursade...

Renting one house does not make you a business person or a saviour of a people. Try this next week. Turn that frown upside down and see how your world changes for you as you walk out in that big bad world out there. Look for the good in people - and stop assuming the worst first.

Millie

topical wrote: »

Renting one house does not make you a business person or a saviour of a people. Try this next week. Turn that frown upside down and see how your world changes for you as you walk out in that big bad world out there. Look for the good in people - and stop assuming the worst first.

If you read my post correctly you will see that I didn't assume the worst of these people.
I gladly gave them bread, milk etc and in fact gave one of the kids a few quid to mark his Holy Communion, I was nothing but nice to these people but they didn't respect or remember that when they attacked my personal space and belongings.

And I am not saying everyone is of the same ilk but this is my experience.

Kess73

Raiser wrote: »

In fairness Topical has made the point that he has rented to Folks that have turned out to be decent, trustworthy and trouble free.

Nobody has any right to prejudge any individual or Family simply because their previous address, personal wealth or whatever else is not seen as being on par with their own marvellous standards.

Regeneration is a way out for lots of Folks that have had to put up with our City's horrific ideas on City Planning for decades and most of them deserve their break.

So why not leave the hand-wringing and fretful whining until there is actually an issue?

- It is a fact that if a Family moves into your Road hoping for a nice quiet life and you can't meet them with an open mind and extend them the courtesy of a handshake and a decent welcome then you are sadly lacking in character and decency.

Yeah but I don't think anyone is saying that every family rehoused as part of the regeneration is scum.

The topic for the thread was whether or not people see the regeneration project as being a success or a failure so far.

I don't think anybody is arguing that the concept is a bad one.

Things just seeme to be getting sidetracked with Topical's posts which seem to be doing the same thing in a way as what he is blaming others for doing, and that is painting all with the one brush.

Even you Raiser had a thread or post in here not so long ago with a list of names of those involved with the regeneration project and the family members they hired, and if memory serves right you were highlighting what you saw as inefficiencies/nepotism/wastes of money within the regeneration project.


A good and worthy project in concept can be rendered almost worthless by people trying to line their own nests rather than do the job in hand. That is not aimed at Topical or any other landlord, it is aimed at some of the people who were tasked with the running of the project.

Raiser

Kess73 wrote: »

Yeah but I don't think anyone is saying that every family rehoused as part of the regeneration is scum.

I thought I picked up a hint of it along the way to be fair....... One brush and a bucket of tar.

Kess73 wrote: »

Even you Raiser had a thread or post in here not so long ago with a list of names of those involved with the regeneration project and the family members they hired, and if memory serves right you were highlighting what you saw as inefficiencies/nepotism/wastes of money within the regeneration project.

I read somewhere that the Limerick Regeneration Project was almost directly borne out of the horrific incident that was the Gavin and Millie attack.

Without going into too much detail I don't think anyone should be feathering their nests, building careers, rewarding themselves with disproportionate wages and saving for Holiday Homes on the back of this or the fact that our City Planning, housing policies etc. over the decades saw fit to create enhance and add to areas which became bottomless social sinkholes.

Regeneration if it was done right could save Limerick - I simply voted no because I have no faith in the process as I see it unfolding and I think that's a real pity.

Kess73

Raiser wrote: »

I thought I picked up a hint of it along the way to be fair....... One brush and a bucket of tar.



I read somewhere that the Limerick Regeneration Project was almost directly borne out of the horrific incident that was the Gavin and Millie attack.

Without going into too much detail I don't think anyone should be feathering their nests, building careers, rewarding themselves with disproportionate wages and saving for Holiday Homes on the back of this or the fact that our City Planning, housing policies etc. over the decades saw fit to create enhance and add to areas which became bottomless social sinkholes.

Regeneration if it was done right could save Limerick - I simply voted no because I have no faith in the process as I see it unfolding and I think that's a real pity.

I don't know about "saving" Limerick, but if it were done right it would indeed do a lot of good for a lot of people and change a lot of lives for the better. The pity is that like yourself, I have no trust in those that wield the power in the project based on what has been done so far, and based on what has come to light on those in charge through local and national media.


I did not vote in the poll because I did not agree fully with any of the options.

Yes the city badly needs a properly executed regeneration plan, probably on an almost city wide basis if I am to be honest, but I don't have any faith in it being done in an honest and productive manner.

liammur

Kess73 wrote: »

Yeah but I don't think anyone is saying that every family rehoused as part of the regeneration is scum.

The topic for the thread was whether or not people see the regeneration project as being a success or a failure so far.

I don't think anybody is arguing that the concept is a bad one.

Things just seeme to be getting sidetracked with Topical's posts which seem to be doing the same thing in a way as what he is blaming others for doing, and that is painting all with the one brush.

Even you Raiser had a thread or post in here not so long ago with a list of names of those involved with the regeneration project and the family members they hired, and if memory serves right you were highlighting what you saw as inefficiencies/nepotism/wastes of money within the regeneration project.


A good and worthy project in concept can be rendered almost worthless by people trying to line their own nests rather than do the job in hand. That is not aimed at Topical or any other landlord, it is aimed at some of the people who were tasked with the running of the project.

Correct.

It is quite shocking how some people can't dicuss the most basic of arguments without going off on tangents.

topical

I am not guilty of taking this thread off topic as it was already heading that way with the majority of posters before i arrived. It just happens it was heading off topic in a differnet direction.

Tell me what is the "regeneration project" where does it begin and where does it end? This project is made of real people, real lives, real famlies. Most of the posters on this thread know NONE of these people. They have NEVER met one single family - and yet feel they are entitled to an opinion on wether the scheme is a success or not.

I provided a view to the other side of the scheme thru real world experience.

liammur

topical wrote: »

I am not guilty of taking this thread off topic as it was already heading that way with the majority of posters before i arrived. It just happens it was heading off topic in a differnet direction.

Tell me what is the "regeneration project" where does it begin and where does it end? This project is made of real people, real lives, real famlies. Most of the posters on this thread know NONE of these people. They have NEVER met one single family - and yet feel they are entitled to an opinion on wether the scheme is a success or not.

I provided a view to the other side of the scheme thru real world experience.

I don't ecpect a landlord to be against regeneration, it's a bonanza for landlords. We all know that, but that's not the issue.

I believe the people of limerick have been remarkably tolerant of a disgraceful ill executed plan. Our politicians have driven this country into the ground, and limerick has suffered most, and with this shambolic plan, will suffer even more.

Mc Love

I really dont think the idea of improving an environment will improve the attitudes of certain people that live there. Sure they might deserve to live in a nice area, with nice new houses, but who's to say these new houses and new areas wont be destroyed and left the same way such estates currently exist.

Even social workers I know, say regeneration will never work - as long as people have the same attitudes, the areas will stay the same and if new, will deteriorate

limklad

I voted No, because I already seen the damage of troublesome families from these areas who help create the mess been moved to other areas in Limerick & Cork before regeneration where the Guards rarely get call out until they Troublesome families arrive in the locality because of the Council and HSE. I have no problem with non-troublesome families moving in to my area. For they will try to raise their family with best intentions and cause less problems for others around them.

This Limerick Regeneration just spread troublesome families along with the good families from the same area (who need a better life) into many good neighbourhoods and destroy them creating a larger mess for the future, where the whole mid west will need regeneration in the future because of the mess of this regeneration Scheme. The Mess is the Failure to deal with troublesome families. This Regeneration in this recession will not solve current problem, it just spread it out and it will grow for everyone else to share in the pain and misery.

They will be Limerick Regeneration 2 which will be Midwest region regeneration scheme in the future.

Kess73

topical wrote: »

I am not guilty of taking this thread off topic as it was already heading that way with the majority of posters before i arrived. It just happens it was heading off topic in a differnet direction.

Tell me what is the "regeneration project" where does it begin and where does it end? This project is made of real people, real lives, real famlies. Most of the posters on this thread know NONE of these people. They have NEVER met one single family - and yet feel they are entitled to an opinion on wether the scheme is a success or not.

I provided a view to the other side of the scheme thru real world experience.

It is a pity you were not posting here a few months ago. Real people, who gave their full names, from areas that were meant to be part of the regeneration scheme were talking on here about their experiences, and gave their honest opinions on what they thought of it.

It was enlightening stuff from people with real experience of it. It was also heartbreaking to hear stories from people who had their hopes raised with promises that have still not come through for them.

I don't have the experience of coming from one of the areas earmarked for regeneration in Limerick, but I do have neighbours two doors down who have moved here as part of it. From what I can tell they have should blended in with most people here and are just part of the furniture now. I could not give a rat's ass as to wherever they lived beforehand as this area is their home now, and they are nice enough to flash a salute or have a quick chat with me whenever I pass by. They actually feel more like neighbours than people who have lived in the area longer.

On the other hand a family was moved into a different spot near me, and have become well known in the area for many anti social reasons, including bringing their rubbish 100 yards from their house and throwing it on the ground there, and I mean big black bags of rubbish.

A friend of my mother's is having a horrible time of it in Ballinacurra Gardens at present as she and her husband, both pensioners, have been ridden roughshod over by "tenants" who have had warnings from the landlord who seems to waffle a lot but never actual do anything despite admitting that his tenants are causing problems and damage in the area.

It can be luck of the draw from what I can see in terms of what people get housed in other areas be it as part of the regeneration, social housing schemes or through the HSE. I have said many times on here that in my view the vast majority of people who get rehoused are going to be ordinary decent folk, who in my opinion deserve a chance at a new area and a new start.

A big failure in my eyes is the rehousing of the minority that cause the trouble and who arrive with a track record of anti social behaviour and criminal activities to their name. I see it as a failure as no guidelines seem to be put in place for trouble makers, as in if they do illegal stuff then they are out.

osarusan

topical wrote: »

Tell me what is the "regeneration project" where does it begin and where does it end? This project is made of real people, real lives, real famlies. Most of the posters on this thread know NONE of these people. They have NEVER met one single family - and yet feel they are entitled to an opinion on wether the scheme is a success or not.

I provided a view to the other side of the scheme thru real world experience.

You have absolutely no way of knowing this if this is true or not. As Kess pointed out, you're as guilty of overgeneralisation as those you're accusing.

topical

Mc Love wrote: »

I really dont think the idea of improving an environment will improve the attitudes of certain people that live there. Sure they might deserve to live in a nice area, with nice new houses, but who's to say these new houses and new areas wont be destroyed and left the same way such estates currently exist.

Even social workers I know, say regeneration will never work - as long as people have the same attitudes, the areas will stay the same and if new, will deteriorate

Are you really listening to your social worker friends? It goes BOTH ways. The people moving into the new areas need to adopt new attitudes (in some cases) and their new neighbors need to have tolerance as well.

My tenant brought a new attitude with him, but was greeted with the harsh negativity from nearly all sides. This began BEFORE he even crossed the threshold of the house. This scenario has been repeated EVERY time I rent out a house.

One tenant I recall caused a stir 5 years ago. I fought with the neighbors who wanted me to evict her the VERY first day. SHe stayed and eventually they gave up on pressuring me. 5 years later she moved, and i went to replace her, i got the same attitude with a new tenant.
A neighbor came over to me with her daughter in tow, claiming she knew my new "potential" tenant personally and that he was a drug dealer/ nasty bit of stuff. I said that he was the 3rd viewing and she was the 3rd person to claim the same thing. I asked her, is everyone renting a drug dealer? Ill never forget her reply.
"Well the previous tenant was grand."

Popular outspoken opinion in Limerick is that the scheme is a waste of time and will only infect/destroy other areas, that we'd be better off keeping people in ghettos. Now that the scheme is in full swing Id rather see a thread that asks what can be done to improve its chances of success.

talkingclock

Please tell the Limerick people on this board where you are renting out your houses. I#m sure a lot of them would like to live beside your saints.

Kess73

topical wrote: »

Are you really listening to your social worker friends? It goes BOTH ways. The people moving into the new areas need to adopt new attitudes (in some cases) and their new neighbors need to have tolerance as well.

My tenant brought a new attitude with him, but was greeted with the harsh negativity from nearly all sides. This began BEFORE he even crossed the threshold of the house. This scenario has been repeated EVERY time I rent out a house.

One tenant I recall caused a stir 5 years ago. I fought with the neighbors who wanted me to evict her the VERY first day. SHe stayed and eventually they gave up on pressuring me. 5 years later she moved, and i went to replace her, i got the same attitude with a new tenant.
A neighbor came over to me with her daughter in tow, claiming she knew my new "potential" tenant personally and that he was a drug dealer/ nasty bit of stuff. I said that he was the 3rd viewing and she was the 3rd person to claim the same thing. I asked her, is everyone renting a drug dealer? Ill never forget her reply.
"Well the previous tenant was grand."

Popular outspoken opinion in Limerick is that the scheme is a waste of time and will only infect/destroy other areas, that we'd be better off keeping people in ghettos. Now that the scheme is in full swing Id rather see a thread that asks what can be done to improve its chances of success.

Most people I know seem to be of the opinion that it is badly needed and great idea, but has been mismanaged more often than not so far.

I am curious that you say it is in full swing. What makes you think that? I ask because the project is quite a bit behind where it was meant to be at this stage, and the press releases have confirmed that.

The project started three years ago, and there has not even been a spade put in the ground for many of the works that had a 2010 finish date. But yet millions and millions has been spent already with very little impact in terms of improving the quality of life for people.


Plus it was confirmed in Febuary of this year that the 3 billion euro that was supposedly in place for the project did not exist and that a maximun of 25 million euro per year would be available instead. So the 2018 finish date that was in place when 3 billion was available is now gone with no estimated finish date in place.

Brendan Kenny, chief executive of Limerick Regeneration, has said in public that the project that was meant to be an 11 year one from 2007 to 2018 is now looking at taking at least 15 years from when he gave the interview in 2010. Even it that timescale does happen, it puts the project as being 7 years behind target despite being in "full swing" for three years already.

Willie O'Dea, in Febuary again this year, came out with the news that he had been approached by local builders who wanted to invest as he put it "a couple of hundred million" into the project. But like most of Willie's promises and people that he claims to have gotten information from, they don't seem to exist in the cold light of day.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0206/1224263888398.html


So I will ask you again, how is the project in full swing when the Chief executive of the project says that it is not and that it is years behind schedule with literally billions now missing from the cash available for it?

topical

Kess73 wrote: »

So I will ask you again, how is the project in full swing when the Chief executive of the project says that it is not and that it is years behind schedule with literally billions now missing from the cash available for it?

Have it your way - so the project is not in full swing - and maybe its not even happening at all according to you. Then I ask YOU, why does every whinger on every street corner blame every person that moves into their area as being moved there because of the regeneration scheme?

osarusan

topical wrote: »

Then I ask YOU, why does every whinger on every street corner blame every person that moves into their area as being moved there because of the regeneration scheme?

He's provided evidence from a newspaper featuring direct quotes from the people involved. Your evidence is whingers on street corners.

liammur

osarusan wrote: »

He's provided evidence from a newspaper featuring direct quotes from the people involved. Your evidence is whingers on street corners.

I'm beginning to think this guy topical is a wind-up merchant. No one can be so stupid.

Millie

liammur wrote: »

I'm beginning to think this guy topical is a wind-up merchant. No one can be so stupid.

Or maybe they can be.........

Kess73

topical wrote: »

Have it your way - so the project is not in full swing - and maybe its not even happening at all according to you. Then I ask YOU, why does every whinger on every street corner blame every person that moves into their area as being moved there because of the regeneration scheme?

Well the fact that some on this thread have said they don't think that every person moved into other estates is to do with regeneration pretty much debunks your blanket comment of claiming that everyone says it.

You went on about people making sweeping comments about the families being rehoused, yet you seem very comfortable to make sweeping comments of your own and make out that everyone is against the families that get rehoused, be it through regeneration, social housing or the HSE route.


Plus it is not a case of me having it my way on the project not being in full swing as you claimed it was. It is a fact that one of the guys in charge of it said that it is not, and that it has been downscaled to a massive degree.

I think that his comments on the project carry more weight that anything I could say or anything you could say about the project.

zing zong

some people on the thread need to take a step back

the regeneration is a great thing,and is much needed and well deserved.

the issue's people here are complaining about involve criminal/anti-social individuals, and families ...... who are by no means representative of majority of folks from the regen areas.

in all of the regen areas combined, there are thousands of families who are decent, and they are the majority, who have been terrorised by a minority of scum

the only difference between you and the decent folk from the regen areas is, in alot of cases, the wage packet, nothing else

saying that everyone from a regen area is anti social/criminal scum is no different to saying that everyone catholic in the north is in the IRA, or that all Muslims are terrorists

and thats stupid

im not saying that nobody has had a bad experience, i have no doubt that some of you have, just remember that most haven't and more than likely wont.

but for the ones that have, or might. you should focus on the individuals, or particular families that are causing you grief and ask why they have been put next door to you to cause you all this hassle? it isn't the regeneration

its the dept. of justice, and legal system for not doing the right thing with the scum to start with

its the city council for housing, and constantly rehousing the same scum over and over without any consideration of the families they are being moved next door to while fully knowing or completely disregarding their criminal/anti-social history

THEY are the ones at fault