What would you do to sort out the country?

nicegirl

Firstly, I would have Brian Cowen removed as Taoiseach, and a more favourable, competant leader who could sort the country out. I would choose David McWilliams, as he is honest, knows the state of the economy, and I believe he could make a considerable difference with sorting the country out.
I would look into Public Sector cuts, and also cuts on high paid civil servants. This costs the country an awful lot of money, and some of the jobs are not necessarily needed. People in the banking sector, directors etc are extremely overpaid, and that is another issue that needs to be looked at and paycuts needed for them, and appropriate tax to hit them, like the normal working people in this country. Just because they earn a fortune should no entitle them to pay F*ck all tax. In my view, the more you earn the more you should be taxed.
I think that NAMA should be scrapped, as it will bring every working person in this country to its knees, and even more recession. The 26billion that NAMA are requiring to sort out the banks should be invested in small business enterprises who can then provide employment for people, and should also bail out the irish people with their mortages.....26billion could go along way with this regard, but what exactly will it do for sorting out the banks??
The government, the financial regulator, and the bankers caused this terrible recession that we are all stuck in, and the irish tax payer should not have to bail them out because of their incompetance, and greed during the Celtic Tiger.

Peanut

Bear in mind that McWilliams is more talented than most of his contemporaries at getting his point across to the public - but this doesn't necessarily mean he would be the best person for the job.

He advocates Ireland abandoning the euro which is a radical option. It may or may not be the lesser of two evils, but it seems politically (at both the Irish and EU level) unfeasible right now. It would cause enormous upheaval, panic and uncertainty, which is probably the last thing the country needs right now.

The problem with taxing the ultra rich is that there are not enough of them. It just wouldn't save enough money to make any tangible difference, however as some sort of "social fairness" measure, it would indirectly make tax increases on lower and middle earners more palatable.

But with such a tax you might also risk pushing out of the country employers who are creating jobs. It's a small step from there to a policy of socialist distribution of wealth, which doesn't usually work fantastically for attracting inward investment, or developing indigenous business.

ei.sdraob

McWilliams? really :rolleyes:

thats the same guy who was pushing hard for a guarantee that has proven to be such a disaster? the same guy who thinks dropping out of euro would do us good?

we all have an agenda, his is to sell more books and plays, im very suspicious of a person who brands himself as a top economist but has no peer reviewed papers to his name


nah checkout this guy here instead

the videos of himself at the Dail committee hearing might still be around

Insomniac_

Nuke it

Sea Sharp

Privatise the HSE.
Cut social welfare in half and reduce minimum wage by 25%.
The money spent containing the riots would be a tiny fraction of the money saved.
Legalise and regulate non-fatal recreational drugs and watch the tourist pour in.
Then invest on a massive on-line education system.

NOGMaxpower

What would I do to sort out the country?

We face ruin in modern day Ireland, we throw the word billion around like its pennys without fully grasping the meaning of word.

That for me is the biggest issue we face as a nation, but how do we get out of the mess we're in? Put simply we can't unless radical change flows through our people primarily and secondly our political system.

The people of Ireland have failed themselves, we as a nation have allowed our political system to run free with no true governance in place. Look at another republic in the EU, oui the French. They have been up in arms and rightfully so about their state of affairs. They ahve stood united against the banks, developers and the politicians. What have we done other than bicker amongst ourselves and denounce anyone who wants to stand up for the people as being mad hippies.

So what we need is a revolution and we are edging ever closer to one happening. The people need to stand up and say NO we're not letting this happen again. A government who's corrupt, a political system that is equally corrupt and supports only a me fein policy since our republics inception. We need to have mass protests together Public & Private Sector and the Unions as one. Failing positive action from a national strike we need to take radical anarchistic measures to overthrow our failed systems. To put a message across the world that this once proud republic may have lost its way but the will and the resolve of its people are still the same as those who once stood up for the same. Equality and freedom for all, Parnel Pearse Connolly would be on their soap boxes already in the heart of Dublin crying out for reform. Where are those people now? No where to be seen because our political system has failed.

Now putting aside fantasy as we all know we are not united as a nation let alone as a people it will never happen. In reality this is what needs to happen....

We need to stop this farce that is Anglo and let it go to the wall. Let its debtors be called up and let them know their investment is gone that they are going to share the brunt with the Irish people. This will send a message to other financial institutes that we dont mess about.

We need to hold a general election, we need to make sure FF & FG dont have a chance of taking power again for at least the next 8 years. Look towards a new coalition government, Labour, SF, independants, let them work together to ensure real change. I say FG because while they are the natural choice to lead this country they are equally as bad as their FF buddies and will only repeat the same corrupt issues again.

The Public and Private sectors need to be held accountable for their actions. In other words the Financial Regulator needs to do their job. But at the same time they need to be empowered to implement harsh punishment on those who do not perform or keep within the boundaries that ensure our continued economic growth and stability. It is within the FR/CBI culture that needs to change, internally they dont have any Accountability or true governance models in place. People need to be sacked and no longer should hide behind fat private sector handshakes or perminant jobs within the public sector. People need to know that if they do not peform their will be consequences. To date none of this is there, it is at the very core as to why our country has fallen to its knees and will soon be on its back as the IMF step in.

The Public sector needs to be shaken up, not the front line services. That would be economic sucide. The culture of obtaining senior postions due to time served needs to be halted. The outsourcing of decisions to Consultants is pure folly and a waste of time. We need to leverage the highly educated people within the public sector to make these decisions themselves. Again its all a waste of tax payers money. LIke the private sector, those in the public sector need to be put on performance measures to ensure their quality of work is kept at a high standard, thus changing the culture to one that breeds innovation and efficencies within their organisations.

Public sector pensions: How these are governed is a joke, especially those higher up the food chain. I see no reason why a minister should receive their state pension along with a private one. Also if a minister or anyone is discharged from their role they shoulnd't be entitled to a state pension end of story. We fork out billions on pensions every year tothose who dont need it and those who dont deserve it. We the tax payer pay these pensions and we the tax payer can't afford our own at the moment. Therefore a pension freeze needs to be put in place on all Public sector pensions. The funds then should be redirected into a stimulus package to promote growth in education, small business and employment. At least until we start to see positive growth again. It makes no sense as to why we the tax payer should pay what is really a bonus to a failed public system. Similar to what has happend to those inthe private sector.

We need to take the 25 (25 thousand million euro) billion we're spending on Anglo and redirect it to Policing, Health Care, Education and infrastructure (public transport, fibre optic broadband, nuclear power stations etc etc). Funds from the fire sell of NAMA should also be used for these investments.

We also need to look at our constitution, we need to amend it so it clearly includes accountability on all fronts of our economic stability.

We need to stay in Europe and if failing any of the above. Allow them to take over our state of affairs until we are in the black once more. We are the laughing stock of Europe we are worse than Greece and Portugal combined. Our reputation as a EU lead country needs to be restored and we have 2 choices take charge now and implement redical change or let the EU do it for us.

Just my opinion, i am sure it'll get torn to shreds by boards but hey such is boards.

NullZer0

Why do anything?

Nobody has done anything about it yet so I think we deserve it.

Cookie_Monster

nicegirl wrote: »

and should also bail out the irish people with their mortages.....26billion could go along way with this regard, but what exactly will it do for sorting out the banks??

putting aside the rest, why should anyone with a mortgage be bailed out. they have no-one to blame but themselves for getting it in the first place.

Gus99

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Look towards a new coalition government, Labour, SF, independants...

People need to be sacked and no longer should hide behind ... permanent jobs within the public sector..... People need to know that if they do not peform their will be consequences.... those in the public sector need to be put on performance measures to ensure their quality of work is kept at a high standard, thus changing the culture to one that breeds innovation and efficencies within their organisations..... a pension freeze needs to be put in place on all Public sector pensions.

I think I have spotted a problem ..

ei.sdraob

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

putting aside the rest, why should anyone with a mortgage be bailed out. they have no-one to blame but themselves for getting it in the first place.

I remember reading a central bank paper from 2007 or so, its still on their site (table on page 136)

one thing that stood out

25% of mortgages are speculative Buy-To-Let mortgages by the end of 2006


I wonder why having a quarter of the mortgages (probably even more another year later before **** hit fan) being taken out for the purposes of nothing more than property speculation didnt ring any alarm bells by the people drawing up the above linked document



I will not stand for any bailout of mortgage holders with such a high ratio of speculators among them, whats worse we are already subsidising this lot thru' all sorts of schemes that could be better spend on job creation for these people!

OMD

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I remember reading a central bank paper from 2007 or so, its still on their site (table on page 136)

one thing that stood out

25% of mortgages are speculative Buy-To-Let mortgages by the end of 2006


I wonder why having a quarter of the mortgages (probably even more another year later before **** hit fan) being taken out for the purposes of nothing more than property speculation didnt ring any alarm bells by the people drawing up the above linked document



I will not stand for any bailout of mortgage holders with such a high ratio of speculators among them, whats worse we are already subsidising this lot thru' all sorts of schemes that could be better spend on job creation for these people!

Buy to let is not the same as property speculation.

NOGMaxpower

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

putting aside the rest, why should anyone with a mortgage be bailed out. they have no-one to blame but themselves for getting it in the first place.

This attitude is just spiteful and only works with the benefit of hindsight. No one could see what was coming, our banks and our government reassured us all that all was sweet.

Regardless of that people need somewhere to live. All these dopes who spout off hahahah you deserve it yis are mongos for getting into it everyone knew it was going to collapse are just silly people. Who love to shout na na i told you so....

As a tax payer I would prefer to have our monies given to those who need it. And yup mortgage owners, small businesses need it most. it would cost roughly 40 billion to wipe clean the average house price off every home bought over the last 10 years. Impossible of course, but at the same time where would you like to see your money go? To those who caused it? Or those who need it? I back the people any time and find these comments childish and not in touch with reality.

I agree its impossible to do but its a nice idea all the same all beit in la la land.

If you happen to get cancer, should I say hahahahaha you deserve it for not watching your diet and smoking (duno if you do either but hey u know what i mean).

Solidarity brother/sister thats what we need not finger pointing.

NOGMaxpower

Gus99 wrote: »

I think I have spotted a problem ..

My opinion only Gus, in your opinion do you think FF / FG are the ones to lead us out of this mess?

Oh and what in your opinion is the problem with the other selected areas? Can i assume you're a public sector worker?

Easy to comment but it would be benefical if you backed up your statement with fact or a decent rebutal.

ei.sdraob

OMD wrote: »

Buy to let is not the same as property speculation.

BTL is a form of speculation!


Your taking a mortgage from bank at interest rate %X
and renting out property in which you have no intention of living for rent at rate of X+Y%
profit of Y%


yes it is speculation, with you speculating that rental yields stay above the bank rate and of course you find tenants....

i don't see why we should bailout this crowd? which was the epitome of Irish cute whoorery at the bubble

25% of mortgage holders up to 2006 thought it was a great way of making money now they can eat **** for all i care

Cookie_Monster

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

This attitude is just spiteful and only works with the benefit of hindsight. No one could see what was coming, our banks and our government reassured us all that all was sweet.

don't be so naive, plenty of people saw it coming and were just laughed away. anyone who thought a 30k house was worth 600k has no-one to blame but themselves. I could easily have gotten a house in the last 5 years but no way would I pay anywhere close to the insanely insane prices that were asking, its only a house after all.

As a tax payer I'd prefer that neither the banks nor mortgage holders got our money, either way is flushing it down the toilet. But at least the banks (Anglo aside) will pay it back over the next 30 years

Cookie_Monster

OMD wrote: »

Buy to let is not the same as property speculation.

eh, yes it is.

NOGMaxpower

ei.sdraob wrote: »

BTL is a form of speculation!


Your taking a mortgage from bank at interest rate %X
and renting out property in which you have no intention of living for rent at rate of X+Y%
profit of Y%


yes it is speculation, with you speculating that rental yields stay above the bank rate and of course you find tenants....

i don't see why we should bailout this crowd? which was the epitome of Irish cute whoorery at the bubble

25% of mortgage holders up to 2006 thought it was a great way of making money now they can eat **** for all i care

Totally agree that those who were investors should be let rot. However there are those home owners who only have 1 property to live in. Who due to all the speculative BTL investors out there had the property market shoot up to crazy levels. Its not really their fault that they had to buy a house that was so expensive. Again banks do checks on these properties to validate their value. Did anyone say "Sorry but you're paying too much for that home" nope, instead they were told " sure no problem we'll give you 8 times your salary at 100% mortgage ".

I feel sorry for those who are now faced with homelessness beacuse of issues beyond their control. Investors ont he other hand know the risks and as such need to accept the outcome.

Unfortunately others dont see it split that way and instead lable anyone who bought a house as idiots when really they were just part of the market at the time and unlucky rather than foolish.

Again a nation divided.

butler1

they could always instaed of bailing out the banks in the way they are doing pay off 25% of everyone with a morgage morgages straight to the bank and then cut everyones wage by 25% as this is the biggest problem in the country defaulting dept now i know 25% is high but if it was 2% then cut wages by 2% you can get my drift

now i understand that people got themselfs in to high morgages and thats their own fault but saying thats their own stupitity doesn't really solve anything the mess is there it just needs to be cleaned and taxing people that can't afford to keep up their morgage repayment is only going to cause more people to default and cost the government more(our tax) money and that doesn't just affect the morgage holder it effects everyone in the country

if the prices of house and commercial property were lowered due to this it would mean rents would be lower which means companies would not have to earn as much to keep businesses going which you'd expect to translate to lower food and services prices and cause peoples morgages and rent wouldn't be as high people wouldn't need to earn as much but the problem in this country is if you ownly work on one problem at a time you allow all the other one get worse

i will say one more thing if iwas to loose my house through default i would leave this country and probably never come back i would n't be a burden on the state ie dole, rent allowance but i would be leaving them it the price of my house which is why i made the other points above

it might sound stupit but its just one guys thoughts on the subject not like anyone would be interested in the government in my opinion as we seem to be just something they can see from their clowds, you know like insects.

ei.sdraob

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Totally agree that those who were investors should be let rot. However there are those home owners who only have 1 property to live in. Who due to all the speculative BTL investors out there had the property market shoot up to crazy levels. Its not really their fault that they had to buy a house that was so expensive. Again banks do checks on these properties to validate their value. Did anyone say "Sorry but you're paying too much for that home" nope, instead they were told " sure no problem we'll give you 8 times your salary at 100% mortgage ".

I feel sorry for those who are now faced with homelessness beacuse of issues beyond their control. Investors ont he other hand know the risks and as such need to accept the outcome.

Unfortunately others dont see it split that way and instead lable anyone who bought a house as idiots when really they were just part of the market at the time and unlucky rather than foolish.

Again a nation divided.

OF course there are exceptions and people in all sorts of exceptional circumstances

but that's a matter for people in question and their banks and the courts to sort out, the government really should be concentrating on more pressing matters, you know that saying "teach a man to fish or give a man a fish..." you want to tackle this private debt problem then tackle the employment problem and let the people work their way out of the debt they signed themselves up to, anything else would create a serious moral hazard which could lead to even bigger issues

you might have the best intentions but in the end you might endup creating a bigger mess

NOGMaxpower

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

don't be so naive, plenty of people saw it coming and were just laughed away. anyone who thought a 30k house was worth 600k has no-one to blame but themselves. I could easily have gotten a house in the last 5 years but no way would I pay anywhere close to the insanely insane prices that were asking, its only a house after all.

As a tax payer I'd prefer that neither the banks nor mortgage holders got our money, either way is flushing it down the toilet. But at least the banks (Anglo aside) will pay it back over the next 30 years

Naieve lol dont be daft I agreed with you but also tried to rationalise your thinking yet you call me naieve, come off it.

Dont you see that some sort of bailout would free up disposable income for those who are now screwed? That disposable income would then fuel growth in the retail sector and have a domino affect on our economy that would only be in a positive way.

Regardless its a mute point, it would never work and there isn't a soul in Ireland who would push it forward.

The issue I have is you using the benefit of hindsight to back up your statment. Its just down right ignorant especially when you're talking about real peoples lives not entities like banks. These are you neighbours, your family your friends. LIke it or lump it we're all in the same boat and comments/opinions like yours only widen the gap in society.

So what would you do as the OP asked? Would you rather dismantle peoples opinions to bolster your own? Or would you rather contribute to a pretty good question in a constructive adult way?

ei.sdraob

butler1 wrote: »

they could always instaed of bailing out the banks in the way they are doing pay off 25% of everyone with a morgage morgages straight to the bank and then cut everyones wage by 25% as this is the biggest problem in the country defaulting dept now i know 25% is high but if it was 2% then cut wages by 2% you can get my drift

now i understand that people got themselfs in to high morgages and thats their own fault but saying thats their own stupitity doesn't really solve anything the mess is there it just needs to be cleaned and taxing people that can't afford to keep up their morgage repayment is only going to cause more people to default and cost the government more(our tax) money and that doesn't just affect the morgage holder it effects everyone in the country

if the prices of house and commercial property were lowered due to this it would mean rents would be lower which means companies would not have to earn as much to keep businesses going which you'd expect to translate to lower food and services prices and cause peoples morgages and rent wouldn't be as high people wouldn't need to earn as much but the problem in this country is if you ownly work on one problem at a time you allow all the other one get worse

i will say one more thing if iwas to loose my house through default i would leave this country and probably never come back i would n't be a burden on the state ie dole, rent allowance but i would be leaving them it the price of my house which is why i made the other points above

it might sound stupit but its just one guys thoughts on the subject not like anyone would be interested in the government in my opinion as we seem to be just something they can see from their clowds, you know like insects.

Paying off their debt with someone elses money doesn't solve anything either :rolleyes: if anything it creates bigger issues

there's no such thing as free lunch

i already pointed out if personal debt is to be tackled it needs to be address via improved personal bankruptcy legislation going forward and employment prospects for those out of jobs

anything else would be a cruel joke on people/companies who werent reckless and would break the camel's back

NOGMaxpower

ei.sdraob wrote: »

OF course there are exceptions and people in all sorts of exceptional circumstances

but that's a matter for people in question and their banks and the courts to sort out, the government really should be concentrating on more pressing matters, you know that saying "teach a man to fish or give a man a fish..." you want to tackle this private debt problem then tackle the employment problem and let the people work their way out of the debt they signed themselves up to, anything else would create a serious moral hazard which could lead to even bigger issues

you might have the best intentions but in the end you might endup creating a bigger mess

Again i find myself agreeing with you I definately think you've got some strong points there. But I did also say it would never work. Personally its fraught with risks/danger and has the potential as you say to cause an even bigger mess.

Just on the subject of banks/mortgages. Already banks have been looking at taking over toxit debt from Irelands property boom. These banks know that there is no way in hell of recouping the full amount and are already analysing the debt owed and writing off part of it so the mortgage holder will pay at least a large percentage of it back rather than defaulting on it completely. This is the only way and legal way it will work but again its not government its down to the bank who will buy own and manage the debt. THis is the legal and financial process that manages debt worldwide. ITs a matter of choice however "Do we get paid any money? or do we agree to write off X to get Y".

But jasus dont get me wrong here folks I like the idea of a government bail out but I recognise its impossible to do and would cause bigger issues.

I just have a bit of an issue with people sayin "ha told you so you're to blame yourself"

I have a mortgage and I recognise it is a life long commitment. I am not too worried about 10% or 20% or 30%... negitive equity. Its all relitive to the markets and like all markets it goes up and down. Its the people out there who banked their pensions or futures on investment properties that are true screwed. I for one can afford my mortgage and will continue to do so regardless of negitive equity.

Cookie_Monster

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

So what would you do as the OP asked? Would you rather dismantle peoples opinions to bolster your own? Or would you rather contribute to a pretty good question in a constructive adult way?

posted previously in a thread the same as this one

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

cut dole by 40%
reduce minimum wage by 20%
reduce rent supplement by 50%
more stringent criteria for claiming various social welfare benefits
Increase PAYE rates
Increase PAYE bands downwards and create third band for higher earners
Privatise CIE
Reform ESB
Abolish HSE and replace with new organisation, allowing no guaranteed admin jobs to be transfer before thorough investigation into need
cut TD numbers to 80-100
Merge City and county councils into 4 regions and Dublin
Reduce Senead remuneration to 50% of current
Reduce TD remuneration to 50% current
Abolish TD expenses
Redirect DF funding to support Navy first and foremost
Reduce employer PRSI and other "anti employment" taxes and red tape
Abolish/merge 60-70% of Quangos
Sell Aer Lingus to Ryanair
Build more prisons
Remove concurrent sentencing
Minimum jail terms for repeat offences
Public service pay cuts, by grade starting at 10% up to 40%
Cease excessive pension benefits for new PS workers
Proper investigation into nuclear generation options
Increase motorway speed limits and other reforms (weather dependant limits, minimum speed etc)
Remove Anglo from guarantee and allow to die
Allow at least one of the other banks to die
Support the rest on the understanding that 75%+ of any profits goes to gov until debt repaid

Mister men

Arrest Cowen,Bertie and Lenihan as they are the ones directly responsible for the current mess. Charge them with treason againest the state and it's people.

New national government to be set up.

All social welfare to be cut for the long term unemployed (5 years and over) by 50%, all those under 21 recieve no benefits of any kind.

Food vouchers instead of cash to be given out as a percentage of your dole payment.

PS pay cut by 50% for all those earning 100k a year and over. All those earning between 50-100k a year cut by 40%, 30-40k a year by 20% and anyone under this to be left untouched.

All TD's pay cut by 65%

Huge wind and wave power projects to be set up and any skilled workers presently on the dole to be offered 500 euro per week to help in the construction of said project. Anyone who rejects this offer to be thrown off the dole. Projects to be funded by increased taxes.

Visable arrest and jailing of those in the property sector directly involved in price fixing and overpricing of houses and retail units in the last 10 years.


The immediate closing of Anglo.

The arrest and jailing of the top bankers who fueled the hysteria that has lead the country to ruin.

All this is just for starters. We do it or the IMF will be harsher. It's our call.

NOGMaxpower

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

posted previously in a thread the same as this one

cut dole by 40%
reduce minimum wage by 20%
reduce rent supplement by 50%
more stringent criteria for claiming various social welfare benefits

ah ha nice one Cookie i thought you were just a thread jacker lol.

Some really good suggestions there but I wasn't privy to your opinion so i had to ask

I would say a lot of what you say makes total sense but at the same time the cuts you propose on those who need it most doesn't make sense (social welfare cuts). What would happen to those who are on those benefits? Let them go homeless? Thus increasing their need on state support and making it even more impossible for them to contribute to society in the future? Seriously flawed there mate...

Other cuts for sure makes sense but would all of that get us out of the mess we're in without a Stable Governement and a secure governnace structure behind it (governance: Decisions, accountability and management of resources). Currently we have no true governance structure in place which has gotten us into this mess. Wihtout one any change thats put in place will fail yet again.

NOGMaxpower

Mister men wrote: »

Arrest Cowen,Bertie and Lenihan as they are the ones directly responsible for the current mess. Charge them with treason againest the state and it's people.

New national government to be set up.

All social welfare to be cut for the long term unemployed (5 years and over) by 50%, all those under 21 recieve no benefits of any kind.

Food vouchers instead of cash to be given out as a percentage of your dole payment.

PS pay cut by 50% for all those earning 100k a year and over. All those earning between 50-100k a year cut by 40%, 30-40k a year by 20% and anyone under this to be left untouched.

All TD's pay cut by 65%

Huge wind and wave power projects to be set up and any skilled workers presently on the dole to be offered 500 euro per week to help in the construction of said project. Anyone who rejects this offer to be thrown off the dole. Projects to be funded by increased taxes.

Visable arrest and jailing of those in the property sector directly involved in price fixing and overpricing of houses and retail units in the last 10 years.


The immediate closing of Anglo.

The arrest and jailing of the top bankers who fueled the hysteria that has lead the country to ruin.

All this is just for starters. We do it or the IMF will be harsher. It's our call.

Accountability whoooohooooooo its needed and defo public humiliation of those responsible. The yanks are doing it why cant we?

mikemac

Mister men wrote: »

All those earning between 50-100k a year cut by 40%, 30-40k a year by 20% and anyone under this to be left untouched.

Do you have friends earning 45k, as they are exempt under this plan

Cookie_Monster

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

I would say a lot of what you say makes total sense but at the same time the cuts you propose on those who need it most doesn't make sense (social welfare cuts). What would happen to those who are on those benefits? Let them go homeless? Thus increasing their need on state support and making it even more impossible for them to contribute to society in the future? Seriously flawed there mate...

welfare being so high here artificially props up lots of markets. the rental market is the obvious one, with the gov contolling 50% of rent effectively. lower this and rents will fall. Lower min wages (and the dole to encourange pepole to work for less. We've seen articles stating that people won't take 25k jobs cos benefits are too good) and lots of products will fall, lower welfare benefits and every major company producing needed good will adjust its prices downwards to maintain sales. Its happened already and many major companies (notably the food sector: Tesc, Dunnes etc) still have much higher margins here than elsewhere because they know there is no real price pressure on them.
ESB is another one, makes a large profit and has extremely high average wage, pressure need to be put on them to drop prices further, reform of the company and customers with less money are the two best ways to force them to lower the stupidly high prices.

NOGMaxpower

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

welfare being so high here artificially props up lots of markets. the rental market is the obvious one, with the gov contolling 50% of rent effectively. lower this and rents will fall. Lower min wages (and the dole to encourange pepole to work for less. We've seen articles stating that people won't take 25k jobs cos benefits are too good) and lots of products will fall, lower welfare benefits and every major company producing needed good will adjust its prices downwards to maintain sales. Its happened already and many major companies (notably the food sector: Tesc, Dunnes etc) still have much higher margins here than elsewhere because they know there is no real price pressure on them.
ESB is another one, makes a large profit and has extremely high average wage, pressure need to be put on them to drop prices further, reform of the company and customers with less money are the two best ways to force them to lower the stupidly high prices.

At the epicentre of all of what you say is the Financial Regulator (Centre Bank) having no control or input. they have failed us on a grand scale. However there are those on welfare for a very good reason and the only way to sort it out is to means test the lot of them. Blanket changes as you propose would cause even bigger social and economic issues. While they all make sense for those who use welfare for profit or fraud it would only mess those who need it most up.


Oh Cookie Monster I see your from Cabo, where abouts I am from there too

whatawaster

Income tax:

Scrap all tax credits
Scrap PRSI and Income Levy
Introduce the four following tax rates/bands

€0-€20,000 – 10%
€20,001 - €40,000 – 20%
€40,001 - €100,000 – 30%
€100,001 plus - 40%


Other
- Reduce both VAT rates by 2%
- Reduce CT by 2.5%

Spending
- Reduce minimum wage by 5-10% a year, and eventually abolish it
- Target social welfare cuts of 5-10% a year (focus on the won’t works, but don’t hurt the can’t-works as much as possible)
- Target reduction in public sector pay bill of 5% a year until it’s reached a sustainable level

NOGMaxpower

whatawaster wrote: »

Income tax:

Scrap all tax credits
Scrap PRSI and Income Levy
Introduce the four following tax rates/bands

€0-€20,000 – 10%
€20,001 - €40,000 – 20%
€40,001 - €100,000 – 30%
€100,001 plus - 40%


Other
- Reduce both VAT rates by 2%
- Reduce CT by 2.5%

Spending
- Reduce minimum wage by 5-10% a year, and eventually abolish it
- Target social welfare cuts of 5-10% a year (focus on the won’t works, but don’t hurt the can’t-works as much as possible)
- Target reduction in public sector pay bill of 5% a year until it’s reached a sustainable level

I like the income tax brackets, especially the 30% lol.... but in all seriousness that all makes sense and what would be fair. However it still doesn't address those earning 200K+ t hey are the real feckers who need reigning in. They should have to pay 50% tax. Those over 500k should have levys applied also to bring them closer to 55 or 60%.

bamboozle

reduce Taoiseach & minister's salaries to TD levels.
Abolish all junior ministries
Abolish the Seanad
Reverse pay cuts to Public Sector workers earning less than 30k (to get them onside)
Increase pay cuts for Public Sector workers earning over 65k by 10%
Increase pay cuts for Public Sector workers earning over 100k by 25%
Sell Govt trains, planes and automobiles - we're broke
reduce number of td's from 166 to 100.
Fasttrack criminal investigations into Seanie & his ilk.
Charge Michael Lynn the conman solicitor with debts of 80m for the crimes he's committed, (that's right there have never been charges pressed against him)
Abolish political contributions, any public representatives found to have been in receipt of corrupt payments to lose entitlement to their state pensions.
Complete overhaul of Bertie's quango's.
Freeze Bertie Ahern's td salary, pensions etc until he provides Dail Eireann a Tax Clearance Certificate (8 years after it was first requested)
Investigate all tax breaks provided by Bertie as min for finance & while he was taoiseach.
Immediately revoke the pensions given to Patrick Neary and Roddy Molloy (hardly legal but i'd still do it out of spite!)
Create laws where TD's have to live in the constitutiencies they represent.
Abolish salaries for Lord Mayors, they can be voluntary roles in anyone still wants to massage their egos with the title

incentives to boost renewables/energy efficiency & reduce our international energy requirements
abolish vrt on cars with engine sizes 1.2L and less for a period of 12 months
Increase grants available through the Sustainable Energy Ireland schemes.
Provide tax breaks to hotels & gyms to install solar panels to cater for hot water requirements.
Ensure all new builds incorporate forms of renewable energy.
Terminate all contracts to rent portakabins/prefabs which act as classrooms all over the country, build state of the art classrooms and schools, use forms of renewable energy in construction.
Large investment into state owned offshore windfarms.
PRSI & health levy not to be applicable on any new jobs created.
Provide substantial grants to Ryanair & Aer Lingus to provide highly subsidised flights into Ireland from America, Asia & Australia - targeting wealthy tourists here for long stay holidays.
Introduce incentives to attract pensioner tourists from Europe - ie free travel
Reduce grants to Horse racing & Greyhound Ireland by 75%.
Sell Farmleigh House
Sell our Embassy's abroad and rent cheaper smaller facilities.
Reduce state contributions to developing countries.
Provide lots of grants for PHD students in IT & Science areas to prevent/reduce brain drain in key long term areas of growth.

whatawaster

bamboozle wrote: »

Abolish all junior ministries

Some of them have a purpose, getting rid of all of them wouldn’t be wise.

bamboozle wrote: »

Reverse pay cuts to Public Sector workers earning less than 30k (to get them onside)

Why do we want them onside? Don’t reverse any of the pay cuts, look for more paycuts across the board. They should be as fair as possible. The higher earners will have to take bigger cuts. But nobody is immune. Tell the unions to f*ck off.

bamboozle

whatawaster wrote: »

Some of them have a purpose, getting rid of all of them wouldn’t be wise.
Why do we want them onside? Don’t reverse any of the pay cuts, look for more paycuts across the board. They should be as fair as possible. The higher earners will have to take bigger cuts. But nobody is immune. Tell the unions to f*ck off.

cause the unions for the lower paid civil servants seem to be far more vocal, plus i think the cuts they had were unfair relative to those on higher salaries in the public service, plus the more potential cuts to the salaries the higher earners will encur, the more likely they'll quit and take early retirement - thus accellerating the natural wastage in the public service as there would be no extra staff hired, plus this would aim to reduce the glut of public servants at middle mgt level earning hugh salaries and doing fcek all!

whatawaster

bamboozle wrote: »

cause the unions for the lower paid civil servants seem to be far more vocal, plus i think the cuts they had were unfair relative to those on higher salaries in the public service, plus the more potential cuts to the salaries the higher earners will encur, the more likely they'll quit and take early retirement - thus accellerating the natural wastage in the public service as there would be no extra staff hired, plus this would aim to reduce the glut of public servants at middle mgt level earning hugh salaries and doing fcek all!

The cuts for lower paid public sector workers may have been unfair in comparison to their higher paid counterparts, but in comparison to their private sector counterparts, the cuts didn’t go far enough.

Basically, our tax revenue this year is going to be around 32 billion.

Our spending on social welfare is going to be 20 billion
Our public sector wage bill is going to be 20 billion

Both need to be reduced.

The public pay bill is not going to go down if we start reversing increases. Everyone has to take another pay cut, from top to bottom.
It’s as simple as that.

Now the government is committed to NOT doing this. The main opposition parties also.

NOGMaxpower

Public sector staffing:

I've had 1st hand experience of this and to my amazement i found that 1.1 head count = 2 headcount in the Public sector. When in the Private it would mean "ask them to work harder" lol.

they are grossly over staffed

Ulysses Gaze

1. Cut number of TD's to 100.

2. Close the Seanad.

3. Cap TD pay at 50,000 euro with a maximum of 8k expenses. Foreign trips to be approved by an independent, non-politically appointed body.

4. Slash administrators in the HSE by 50% - middle managers by 75%. We spend close to 15 billion on the health service a year. For an island of 4 million we should have a world class health service with that expenditure.

5. Eliminate 75% of the Quangos - 5,000 people employed in the 600 or so at the moment at an annual cost of 16 billion.

6. Close down Anglo and Irish Nationwide - tell the bondholders to take pennies in the pound if necessary. If they don't like it? Tough.

7. Complete audit of NAMA and all its dealing - make any land transactions subject to public tender. We own the land now so we have a right to know what is going on. Essentially open the books on this secretive organisation.

8. On the land front - take the land of bankrupt developers. They are NEVER going to be able to pay for it.

9. Close down FAS - replace with Government departments such as DETI doing the work under a Ministerial mandate.

10. We have huge amounts of commercial building empty - let Start-Ups get access to this for a Peppercorn rent to grow businesses - once they reach a certain size they leave and are replaced with a new start up.

11. Implement Reverse Benchmarking

12. Overhaul Government Departments - each department should have an expert in the field employed there. E.G. Peter Matthews in Finance, Craig Barrett ex-CEO Intel in Dept of Communications.

Gus99

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

My opinion only Gus, in your opinion do you think FF / FG are the ones to lead us out of this mess?

Oh and what in your opinion is the problem with the other selected areas? Can i assume you're a public sector worker?

Easy to comment but it would be benefical if you backed up your statement with fact or a decent rebutal.

I actually thought you made a lot of decent points in your post - but was pointing out that if you were relying on Labour and SF to champion the cause of public sector reform (with more flexible work practices and reduced costs), I wouldn't hold your breath. Remember 'ol Sit on the Fence Gilmore wouldnt even take a position on the CP agreement.

Not sure what made you think I am a PS worker

ZYX

bamboozle wrote: »

i think the cuts they had were unfair relative to those on higher salaries in the public service,

Many of the "lower paid" public servants are now earning more than they were before pay cuts and pension levy. The increase is due to pay increments. Given that we had deflation for much of the last 2 years, this equates to a substantial, above inflation pay rise.

The highest paid public servants have had pay cuts of 25% with no pay increments to offset against it. Also the highest paid have suffered most from tax rises.

dunsandin

Put up a "closed for renovations" sign in Rosslare and start from scratch. Its probably what we are going to have to do anyway.

hinault

I'd start with these two gob****es.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuHRulXfzGA&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkLjf5EP720

hinault

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

1. Cut number of TD's to 100.

2. Close the Seanad.

3. Cap TD pay at 50,000 euro with a maximum of 8k expenses. Foreign trips to be approved by an independent, non-politically appointed body.

4. Slash administrators in the HSE by 50% - middle managers by 75%. We spend close to 15 billion on the health service a year. For an island of 4 million we should have a world class health service with that expenditure.

5. Eliminate 75% of the Quangos - 5,000 people employed in the 600 or so at the moment at an annual cost of 16 billion.

6. Close down Anglo and Irish Nationwide - tell the bondholders to take pennies in the pound if necessary. If they don't like it? Tough.

7. Complete audit of NAMA and all its dealing - make any land transactions subject to public tender. We own the land now so we have a right to know what is going on. Essentially open the books on this secretive organisation.

8. On the land front - take the land of bankrupt developers. They are NEVER going to be able to pay for it.

9. Close down FAS - replace with Government departments such as DETI doing the work under a Ministerial mandate.

10. We have huge amounts of commercial building empty - let Start-Ups get access to this for a Peppercorn rent to grow businesses - once they reach a certain size they leave and are replaced with a new start up.

11. Implement Reverse Benchmarking

12. Overhaul Government Departments - each department should have an expert in the field employed there. E.G. Peter Matthews in Finance, Craig Barrett ex-CEO Intel in Dept of Communications.

13.Terminate the Tribunals.

c montgomery

Sea Sharp wrote: »

Privatise the HSE.
Cut social welfare in half and reduce minimum wage by 25%.
The money spent containing the riots would be a tiny fraction of the money saved.
Legalise and regulate non-fatal recreational drugs and watch the tourist pour in.
Then invest on a massive on-line education system.

You hit the nail on the head.

I can go to my local VHI private clinic and get an emergency seen to within minutes for 110 euro.

With the HSE i wait around for about 12 hours, pay 65euro there and then out of my own pocket even though io am already paying huge amounts of tax to them.

I bet if it was privatised they would be able to cut 33% of the total expendature straight away.

roy rodgers

1. close that black hole of a bank anglo down.

2. a nama for the people who bought a house at over inflated prices that was driven by the banks. ( other wise the insurance companies are going have to pay for them when the home owner passes away. which will probaly effect another generation in 30 to 40 years time.

3. cut the social welfare by 100 euro a week. sounds cruel but we are broke! and life is fairly handy on the dole, I have done it, I have enjoyed it and I can see why a lot of people are getting used to it as a way of life.

4. build more council estates because we cant afford the ones we are in.

5. leave europe. do what any other irish man would do, take the money and run!! after all didn't we vote no to lisbon the first time??? they cant say in europe that they didn't see that coming:D

6. get our farmers back growing more seasonal veg and be ploughing all year round. not just for 3 days a year.

7. take back OUR corrib gas field. sure if we are not in europe they cant do any thing.

8. wake up and have my corn flakes:p

maninasia

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

What would I do to sort out the country?

We face ruin in modern day Ireland, we throw the word billion around like its pennys without fully grasping the meaning of word.

.....
The people of Ireland have failed themselves, we as a nation have allowed our political system to run free with no true governance in place. Look at another republic in the EU, oui the French. They have been up in arms and rightfully so about their state of affairs. They ahve stood united against the banks, developers and the politicians. What have we done other than bicker amongst ourselves and denounce anyone who wants to stand up for the people as being mad hippies.

So what we need is a revolution and we are edging ever closer to one happening. The people need to stand up and say NO we're not letting this happen again....... .

The only problem with this is it's the people that voted that shower in...3 times...because they wanted their stamp duty exemption and their SSAs and their low taxes and their social welfare benefits and their annual benchmarking and so on. The reason why there is no revolution is that most of the people themselves chose all these things.

maninasia

iRock wrote: »

Why do anything?

Nobody has done anything about it yet so I think we deserve it.

Let's face it, Ireland has been badly run particularly these last 10 years or so. Everything was overpaid and overvalued. Any reform that takes place is all at face level, not root and branch. The only large scale govt change I could see proposed was decentralisation but it was a disaster and was not adding any effectiveness to government operations, simply a backhander to certain politicians.

Billion euro tribunals with lawyers feeding at the trough run for years but their conclusions have no legal effect and they are usually forgotten about even before the conclusion is made.

Review boards like 'an board snip nua' make recommendations that are just thrown on the ground.

Massive financial decisions such as bank guarantees are rushed through quickly with no oversight.

The main problem I see in society is a lack of responsibility and sense of belonging to a greater society (which is ironic since Ireland is such a socialist country in some ways with so many people with their hands out!), students should pay their own way (helped by loans), social welfare recipients should get income according to what they put into the system, landlords and property owners should take the hit for their own bad investments, public workers should be paid extra for added productivity not anything else, pensioners should be willing to take a small hit for the good of the country, banks like Anglo and Irish Nationwide should have shutdown and legal proceeding started immediately. Everybody is in it for themselves.


Ok if everybody is in it for themselves then they should not get other peoples money..SIMPLE.



Ireland needs a root and branch reform but who is going to do it?

bernardo mac

Probably already mentioned but bonuses and pensions should not be paid by tax payers to bankers who took risks and lost disastrously.Payments should reviewed,revoked and retrieved

bernardo mac

Probably already mentioned but bonuses and pensions should not be paid by tax payers to bankers who took risks and lost disastrously.Payments should reviewed,revoked and retrieved:mad:

bamboozle

bernardo mac wrote: »

Probably already mentioned but bonuses and pensions should not be paid by tax payers to bankers who took risks and lost disastrously.Payments should reviewed,revoked and retrieved

not only bankers but those working in the higher levels of the public service, why Roddy Molloy and Patrick Neary received payoffs, golden handshakes and pension top-ups upon the exposure of their gross ineptitude in their roles is completely FUBAR!

NOGMaxpower

maninasia wrote: »

The only problem with this is it's the people that voted that shower in...3 times...because they wanted their stamp duty exemption and their SSAs and their low taxes and their social welfare benefits and their annual benchmarking and so on. The reason why there is no revolution is that most of the people themselves chose all these things.

100% agree, but just wait and see what the budget holds for them.

as you suggest, there are those who made massive profits or who became millionares over night are not willing to stand up and protest = us v's them and a fuelled mé fein attitude in the middle classes.

THis is goan change over the next 2 years as the governement continues to make cuts to services and increase taxes.

The problem is getting this people to stand side by side with their fellow man/woman and stand up for the people of Ireland. Already the middle classes are feeling the pinch Dec will turna pinch into a punch.

NOGMaxpower

Gus99 wrote: »

I actually thought you made a lot of decent points in your post - but was pointing out that if you were relying on Labour and SF to champion the cause of public sector reform (with more flexible work practices and reduced costs), I wouldn't hold your breath. Remember 'ol Sit on the Fence Gilmore wouldnt even take a position on the CP agreement.

Not sure what made you think I am a PS worker

Tee hee,

I hear ya on that, but lets face it who's more in bed with the public sector and unions? FF and FG are all over them.

Plus if we allow FF or FG to hold power the situation will seem to get better in the short term but in the long run they are just the same as eachother which is why I was promoting change with a coalition government.

I mean lets give the smaller parties a shot, SF have been manging the North ina colation government just fine. Lets let the smaller parties take a shot at it, whats the worst that could happen?