UL Medicine

pc11

raftni wrote: »

two or three students transferred to other schools

I didn't know transfers were really allowed. Where did they transfer to? Was it in Ireland?

raftni

14 people already dropped out of first year. I feel sorry for them. each and every one of them screwed over by a school and a system that doesn't care for anything other than their wallets.

Reality_Check1

raftni wrote: »

14 people already dropped out of first year. I feel sorry for them. each and every one of them screwed over by a school and a system that doesn't care for anything other than their wallets.

can you expand on this? what was the specific reason for the drop outs?

Cream_crackers

raftni wrote: »

14 people already dropped out of first year. I feel sorry for them. each and every one of them screwed over by a school and a system that doesn't care for anything other than their wallets.

Hi, I'm looking into Gradmed and rather than jump in with my eyes closed and be one of those dropouts, I'd really like an idea of the reading list for first year. Could you please post or pm me your reading list? Thanks

Dr Nic

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

Apparently the PBL system doesnt have a pass mark per say and the bottom 10% of the class have to fail. The idea behind it is to drive the overall standard up by creating a competitive atmosphere. Last year was an exception and the standard was so low they failed 25% of the class. Bit ridiculous if you ask me

Lol - are you still on here trolling?
That is just not true.

I came back to this forum for something completely different, only to find you still here telling lies. Will any moderator not step in here and get rid of this person?

Dr Nic

jtsuited wrote: »

So to answer the question that has plagued this forum for the past 14 months - 'are the gamsat cutoffs too low?' - we now have a definitive answer. Yes, a 54 in gamsat does not guarantee that you are bright enough to study medicine.

Unless those 11 failures were those people who got above 59/60 and chose UL as their first choice. Which is highly unlikely (although I'm open to correction).

I have to agree. I think what is going on now this year, may be an oversight. But if gamsat entry continues to drop & failure rate in year 1 continues to rise then its an absolute disgrace on behalf of the medschools involved.

It probably will continue though. Money talks etc...

ULmedStudent

raftni wrote: »

14 people already dropped out of first year. I feel sorry for them. each and every one of them screwed over by a school and a system that doesn't care for anything other than their wallets.

Could you please elaborate on this? The accusation doesn't make much sense on its own, especially without stating the reasons for those students leaving! You're implying that the school are money hungry and somehow are at fault for these people leaving but don't give any reason why.

My own view on it is as follows: the Gamsat is used as a measurement of the abilities of potential medical students. Of course there will be exceptions to the rule (such as those in final year undergrad who do poorly with little prep vs poorer candidates who make many attempts and finally succeed) but for the most part it serves its function. I can confirm from my knowledge that while there are many in UL with poor gamsat scores who are thriving in the course (and will make wonderful doctors), there are very few with high gamsat scores that are failing. Therein lies the difference.

The school sets a number of places each year to suit its vision and plan for the progression of the medical school and it can hardly be held to fault when the potential candidate population is not large enough to ensure that 100% of candidates who enter via the CAO/GAMSAT are of high enough quality to pass.

I know that the school don't want to fail 20% of a class but until the population of students applying is large enough to ensure that more than the 55th percentile get a place there is very little they can do about it. In fact, they are doing the right (and difficult) thing by failing those that they see as unfit to progress.

You seem bitter about the whole experience. If you failed, I can understand that to a degree but your criticism on a public forum should contain more than unsubstantiated accusations.

P.s. 2nd year UL medical student here

chanste

UL is fine. It has a few teething problems that go along with being a relatively new course but from what I can see they are usually pretty receptive to suggestions and criticism, and they explain themselves regularly... and very well too. If someone is thinking of going, or for that matter thinking of rubbishing the school, why not go along to an open day and put your concerns to faculty. I've no doubt they will put all concerns to bed.

The failure rates listed above are not the norm. My year (I'm in 4th year) has only had 1 or 2 people have to repeat the year in the whole of the first 3 years. It is a very tough course and I have freely admitted on these boards that I have been a regular attender at the repeat exams.

The advice I would give to anybody considering it is prepare to work hard and if you don't have a plan for how to deal with a repeat year (should it happen to you) then you could leave yourself with a lot of stress (even if you don't end up repeating the fear that you will can be horrifying when you find yourself doing summer repeats. But this advice applies to anybody in ANY medical school.

Reality_Check1

Is the new med building open yet? how will they deal with classes of 140 when the new building has a capacity of 100 per class?

only ask because when I went down to an open day 3 years ago they said the med building would be open by christmas 2010. I guess class sizes were smaller then so smaller rooms wern't a problem

raftni

ULmedStudent wrote: »

Could you please elaborate on this? The accusation doesn't make much sense on its own, especially without stating the reasons for those students leaving! You're implying that the school are money hungry and somehow are at fault for these people leaving but don't give any reason why.

My own view on it is as follows: the Gamsat is used as a measurement of the abilities of potential medical students. Of course there will be exceptions to the rule (such as those in final year undergrad who do poorly with little prep vs poorer candidates who make many attempts and finally succeed) but for the most part it serves its function. I can confirm from my knowledge that while there are many in UL with poor gamsat scores who are thriving in the course (and will make wonderful doctors), there are very few with high gamsat scores that are failing. Therein lies the difference.

The school sets a number of places each year to suit its vision and plan for the progression of the medical school and it can hardly be held to fault when the potential candidate population is not large enough to ensure that 100% of candidates who enter via the CAO/GAMSAT are of high enough quality to pass.

I know that the school don't want to fail 20% of a class but until the population of students applying is large enough to ensure that more than the 55th percentile get a place there is very little they can do about it. In fact, they are doing the right (and difficult) thing by failing those that they see as unfit to progress.

You seem bitter about the whole experience. If you failed, I can understand that to a degree but your criticism on a public forum should contain more than unsubstantiated accusations.

P.s. 2nd year UL medical student here

think you've misread the point of my posts.

I'm highlighting the deficiencies in the course for potential candidates, and highlighting the issues with the current entrance system which has allowed poor students to get through.

Chanste you are being slightly misleading in your posts. Is it not true that a student who would have been in your year was thrown out of the school for having failed second year twice. However your point is valid enough, but this is because class of 2014,13,12 had a much harder entrance to get in, thus those students would be of a higher calibre, with far less weak students (as you say yourself, only a handful others and yourself had to do the repeats each year).

The numbers don't lie unfortunately.

I don't know why those 14 students have dropped out of first year. Maybe all of their loan applications were rejected :rolleyes:

And it is fact that 25 people in my year failed first year, at least ten failed the repeats, and a handful of others either left medicine completely, and another small few transferred college.


@realitycheck, the number of first years taken in was 166 (minus 14). the new building has plenty of pbl rooms.


P.s. 2nd year UL medical student here

shaz84

Just out of interest, how are current UL students finding the teaching at UL?

UCD GEM1 here.

kevinmcinerney

Does anyone know when the UL scholarships are awarded? I heard its one month into the course. I was hoping it would be awarded before the places were accepted.

nerrad01

kevinmcinerney wrote: »

Does anyone know when the UL scholarships are awarded? I heard its one month into the course. I was hoping it would be awarded before the places were accepted.

Definitely after the course starts in previous years

arzieparzie

kevinmcinerney wrote: »

Does anyone know when the UL scholarships are awarded? I heard its one month into the course. I was hoping it would be awarded before the places were accepted.

I know a friend of mine got one but didn't find out until she was a good few weeks in and didn't get it until a couple of weeks ago...

kevinmcinerney

Thanks for confirming my fears, arzieparzie. Makes you wonder though. Why would they only offer the scholarship to someone who has already accepted a place thus proving that they can afford the place in the first place. I would really need to know in advance of accepting the place that I was awarded the scholarship for it to be any good. Dang....I can hardly accept the place and drop out in one mnth if I don't get the winning ticket...

hmm...

arzieparzie

Ok I'm not one to usually stick my nose in to these debates but I think some of the stuff being said here is a bit mad. The GAMSAT requirement is fine. If people are failing it's because they're not putting in the work not because they have a low GAMSAT score. I know loads people that have a 53/54/55 GAMSAT score and are kicking the higher scoring applicants asses. This course is extremely difficult so it is very easy to fail if you're not keeping up or if you have the wrong study technique. There is a very high pass requirement and it is really difficult to adjust to this method of learning so I don't think the GAMSAT score has anything to do with it, it's about the person themselves. The UL GEMS faculty themselves said that the GAMSAT score means nothing because when they look at exam results there's no more likelihood of a lower scoring person failing than a higher scorer.

arzieparzie

kevinmcinerney wrote: »

Thanks for confirming my fears, arzieparzie. Makes you wonder though. Why would they only offer the scholarship to someone who has already accepted a place thus proving that they can afford the place in the first place. I would really need to know in advance of accepting the place that I was awarded the scholarship for it to be any good. Dang....I can hardly accept the place and drop out in one mnth if I don't get the winning ticket...

hmm...

It's a tricky one alright! I think there's an allowance made for it though if you have applied for a scholarship... nobody can afford the fees straight off anyways.. pretty much everyone gets a loan so maybe you could apply for a loan until you see if you get the scholarship just as a back up? I'd ask the people who deal with the scholarships what sort of plan they have in place for it. UL is a really great university and have a great bunch of people that will try to help you as best they can with that sort of stuff.

pc11

arzieparzie wrote: »

Ok I'm not one to usually stick my nose in to these debates but I think some of the stuff being said here is a bit mad. The GAMSAT requirement is fine. If people are failing it's because they're not putting in the work not because they have a low GAMSAT score. I know loads people that have a 53/54/55 GAMSAT score and are kicking the higher scoring applicants asses. This course is extremely difficult so it is very easy to fail if you're not keeping up or if you have the wrong study technique. There is a very high pass requirement and it is really difficult to adjust to this method of learning so I don't think the GAMSAT score has anything to do with it, it's about the person themselves. The UL GEMS faculty themselves said that the GAMSAT score means nothing because when they look at exam results there's no more likelihood of a lower scoring person failing than a higher scorer.

If that were true, then why are they using the GAMSAT score as a method to rank applicants? Either it's a pointless exam and the colleges are being highly negligent in using it and ACER's years of research are useless, or the college is being disingenuous.

All things being equal, a 63 is a better sign of ability than a 53. That doesn't change the fact that putting in the work is necessary for all students. To be blunt, I think 53 is not a very good score. That's not to say that a 53 can not do well in med school, of course.

arzieparzie

pc11 wrote: »

If that were true, then why are they using the GAMSAT score as a method to rank applicants? Either it's a pointless exam and the colleges are being highly negligent in using it and ACER's years of research are useless, or the college is being disingenuous.

All things being equal, a 63 is a better sign of ability than a 53. That doesn't change the fact that putting on the work is necessary for all students. To be blunt, I think 53 is not a very good score. That's not to say that a 53 can not do well in med school, of course.

I do understand what you're getting at but to be frank I think UL are better qualified to decide whether or not a candidate's score is sufficient or not. I do not think that it is your place to be judging what is a good or bad score without having full and accurate information surrounding the issue.

Gandalf The White

Hello. I am an international applicant hoping to study medicine at the University of Limerick.

How many medical students will be in the first year class in September 2013? Is there a quota for international students/ how many internationals are typically in each class?

I scored in the low 60s on GAMSAT.

Thank you kindly.

Nonoperational

Well UL (or any other school) aren't really deciding what an acceptable mark is. As numbers increase and numbers of applicants drop then mathematically the required score is going to keep dropping. There surely has to be a point where it just goes too low. Low 50s is pushing it for me, but that's just my opinion.

arzieparzie

Nonoperational wrote: »

Well UL (or any other school) aren't really deciding what an acceptable mark is. As numbers increase and numbers of applicants drop then mathematically the required score is going to keep dropping. There surely has to be a point where it just goes too low. Low 50s is pushing it for me, but that's just my opinion.

Well UL have lower requirements largely due to the fact that there are about 140 people in each class, which is roughly 3 times the number in some other universities. If UL felt that the requirements were too low they would cap it and have a smaller class. They would not jeopardise the reputation of the course just to keep numbers up.

Gandalf The White

arzieparzie wrote: »

Well UL have lower requirements largely due to the fact that there are about 140 people in each class, which is roughly 3 times the number in some other universities. If UL felt that the requirements were too low they would cap it and have a smaller class. They would not jeopardise the reputation of the course just to keep numbers up.

Approximately how many of the 140 students are international students?

arzieparzie

Gandalf The White wrote: »

Hello. I am an international applicant hoping to study medicine at the University of Limerick.

How many medical students will be in the first year class in September 2013? Is there a quota for international students/ how many internationals are typically in each class?

I scored in the low 60s on GAMSAT.

Thank you kindly.

There are roughly 140 places and approx 40-45 of those are international students.

Flange/Flanders

arzieparzie wrote: »

Well UL have lower requirements largely due to the fact that there are about 140 people in each class, which is roughly 3 times the number in some other universities. If UL felt that the requirements were too low they would cap it and have a smaller class. They would not jeopardise the reputation of the course just to keep numbers up.

Hi arzieparzie,

My main concern with UL is how non science grads are coping with PBL? I know in UCD that its tough work for non science grads but by sem 2 they've caught up (from what I've heard anyway!)

arzieparzie

Flange/Flanders wrote: »

Hi arzieparzie,

My main concern with UL is how non science grads are coping with PBL? I know in UCD that its tough work for non science grads but by sem 2 they've caught up (from what I've heard anyway!)

Hey,

I'm a non science grad and a couple of my friends are the same and it's fine! It's a little tricky learning terms etc but everything is taught from the beginning so although it's a little more difficult it's definitely doable.
The faculty are very understanding that non science grads may struggle and are very helpful when it comes to showing ways to maximise your learning etc. Usually there's a bit of a difference in 1st year between science and non science but that evens out by the end of the year. It's not something I'd be concerned about.
PBL for non science grads is great, it gets your mind going and really teaches you how to connect things. Also, because it's in a group and the thought process is explained it's more beneficial than just being left to your own devices in my opinion.

arzieparzie

kevinmcinerney wrote: »

Thanks for confirming my fears, arzieparzie. Makes you wonder though. Why would they only offer the scholarship to someone who has already accepted a place thus proving that they can afford the place in the first place. I would really need to know in advance of accepting the place that I was awarded the scholarship for it to be any good. Dang....I can hardly accept the place and drop out in one mnth if I don't get the winning ticket...

hmm...

Hey I was talking to my friend and they said that what they did was applied for the loan and informed the bank that they were waiting to hear about the scholarship, the bank said it was no problem as they could just apply and if they were accepted not draw down on the loan until they know whether or not they get the scholarship. Just don't pay the first instalment of fees until you know if you get the scholarship and then if you don't you take out the loan to pay the fees and then repay it when qualified.

pc11

arzieparzie wrote: »

I do understand what you're getting at but to be frank I think UL are better qualified to decide whether or not a candidate's score is sufficient or not. I do not think that it is your place to be judging what is a good or bad score without having full and accurate information surrounding the issue.

Was that an attempt at condescension? I'll judge whatever I like, thanks. I did only a few days' study having been out of education for well over a decade, and I was quite ill when I sat the GAMSAT just as a trial run, and I got a 67, so it is my opinion that 53 is indeed low for anyone putting in a good effort. In Australia, for some colleges you need 65 or even higher just to get an interview. Do you think the Australian colleges are qualified to judge??

In UK GAMSAT 2012, a 53 was at the 40th percentile. That means it's well below the average just of those who sat the exam, let alone those who will get in.

So, what information do you think I'm missing? Do you have the full entry score stats for UL and other colleges? DO you have the pass rates and the correlations with GAMSAT? If so, post them. If not, you're speculating like the rest of us. Tell me, what do you think is a good/bad score?

I don't know why you got so defensive, I like UL and their course from what I know of it, I wasn't criticising it. I was making an obvious observation about how scores work and I was careful to say that hard work is essential regardless of GAMSAT score. You should probably re-read my post. I didn't say a 53 means you won't do well later.

arzieparzie

pc11 wrote: »

Was that an attempt at condescension? I'll judge whatever I like, thanks. I did only a few days' study having been out of education for well over a decade, and I was quite ill when I sat the GAMSAT just as a trial run, and I got a 67, so it is my opinion that 53 is indeed low for anyone putting in a good effort. In Australia, for some colleges you need 65 or even higher just to get an interview. Do you think the Australian colleges are qualified to judge??

In UK GAMSAT 2012, a 53 was at the 40th percentile. That means it's well below the average just of those who sat the exam, let alone those who will get in.

So, what information do you think I'm missing? Do you have the full entry score stats for UL and other colleges? DO you have the pass rates and the correlations with GAMSAT? If so, post them. If not, you're speculating like the rest of us. Tell me, what do you think is a good/bad score?

I don't know why you got so defensive, I like UL and their course from what I know of it, I wasn't criticising it. I was making an obvious observation about how scores work and I was careful to say that hard work is essential regardless of GAMSAT score. You should probably re-read my post. I didn't say a 53 means you won't do well later.

You seem to have missed the point of what I'm saying. As I stated before I do understand what you're getting at but nobody is in the position to decide what is a good or bad score except the university themselves.
What I mean about not having all the information is that how do you know how many applicants there are to each university in Ireland vs Australia? If an Australian university has a much higher number of applicants then of course their entry requirements are higher. However, you admitted yourself that it is just speculation so I'll reaffirm what I said before. I do not think it is anyone's business to judge what is a good or bad score other than the universities.
Also, i'm very happy for you that you are able to achieve a score of 67 with a mere few days study and being ill to boot. However, maybe you just got lucky (honestly no offence intended). I'm sure there are many people out there who were under similar circumstances and quite possibly many of these people have the potential to achieve in the 60s in the exam but simply had a bad day or there were other factors involved. Again, neither of us have the facts.
It is not my intention to be defensive but rather to show that what you are saying is your opinion and that there are other views to take on the issue.
I'm not suggesting that you don't like UL or the course but the people who are making the decisions on these things have much more experience and information, which leads me to believe that if they are of the opinion that 53 is an adequate score then who are you or I or anyone else to pass judgement on that?

Ellymay3

pc11 wrote: »

If that were true, then why are they using the GAMSAT score as a method to rank applicants? Either it's a pointless exam and the colleges are being highly negligent in using it and ACER's years of research are useless, or the college is being disingenuous.

All things being equal, a 63 is a better sign of ability than a 53. That doesn't change the fact that putting on the work is necessary for all students. To be blunt, I think 53 is not a very good score. That's not to say that a 53 can not do well in med school, of course.

I think the fundamental point you are missing is that the GAMSAT is an ENTRANCE exam. The fact that UL accepts applicants with 54's has damn all to do with the calibre of doctor that applicant becomes in the end. There are rigourous examinations and copious amounts of work to get through before they graduate and begin working as doctors.

Anyone reading this thread and is feeling put off from applying because they have a 54/55, do not bother wasting a year of your life studying for and resitting the GAMSAT. Apply. You may as well. Also, I must point out that people with too much self-importance and snobbery (such as is displayed openly in this thread) do get weeded out, and do find it difficult themselves.
We have a laid back course here, in the sense that everyone is approachable, friendly and helpful. We rely on one another to help get us by which makes the dynamic so much more interesting than any sort of program I've ever been on before. Those with their 65's who are too clever or proud to ask for help are those who get left behind.

UL may accept applicants with lower GAMSAT scores (mainly in part to the larger class size) but at least they aren't churning out the types of medics who walk around with their noses in the air, too up themselves to ask for help or admit when they are wrong or struggling.