M7-N18 Limerick South Ring Road thread

Amtmann

Pick up all discussion of the Shannon Tunnel and the South Ring Road here.

Victor

Question: Is the section from the N69 Dock Road to the N18 Ennis Road a motorway?

CerebralCortex

Victor wrote: »

Question: Is the section from the N69 Dock Road to the N18 Ennis Road a motorway?

Nope, and it's mainly due to the fact that the section of road between Cratloe and Hurler's cross are not motorway standard.

slinky2000

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Nope, and it's mainly due to the fact that the section of road between Cratloe and Hurler's cross are not motorway standard.

Was just down it there now. It's a terrible piece of dual carriageway! No where near motorway standard.

Zoney

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Nope, and it's mainly due to the fact that the section of road between Cratloe and Hurler's cross are not motorway standard.

Although it's not a good excuse in my opinion given the other end flows directly onto the M7. No reason SRR phase 2 couldn't be motorway all the way from the Ennis Road to the M7/M20 junction.

If they didn't want to number a short section of M18 they should have stuck with the plan to have it be part of the N7 (M7).

However, I suspect it's probably some kind of reason to do with the toll - maybe they think there would be slightly less traffic if it was motorway, even if just a few cars (what is there? - learner permit holders, not much else with the tunnel restrictions).

danielmcinerney

anyone know what this is going to involve?
http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/LimerickCountyCouncil/M7N24BallysimonInterchange/SchemeName,16494,en.html

juntion as it is is a disaster

Zoney

danielmcinerney wrote: »

anyone know what this is going to involve?
http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/LimerickCountyCouncil/M7N24BallysimonInterchange/SchemeName,16494,en.html

juntion as it is is a disaster

There seems to have been no imagination whatsoever involved in how the N24 junction would actually be used once up and running. The finished arrangement seems to be that someone merely looked at AADT figures for N24 and didn't consider how much traffic would be right turning in either direction onto the M7. Admittedly the latter didn't exist at the time planning was undertaken, but that is why you have *planning*.

Before the traffic lights it was very dangerous indeed. At least they did put those in, as they were needed to handle the right turns and at least make sure the queue is on the N24 more than down the M7 slip onto the M7 mainline. Now the junction it is "just" a hazard and delay rather than being an absolute blackspot.

Still, if we were doing things properly, someone would be held to account over the failure to plan the junction to emerging traffic requirements.

L1011

I've used that junction but can't remember the layout of it - I'd presume its not capable of taking a future 2+2 ending on it now?

Jimbob1977

I find that Exit 30 Southbound at Rosbrien (from the M7 Dublin to M20 Cork/Dooradoyle) is very, very short. It is potentially dangerous also.

This exit joins the Republic's second and third largest cities, but the slip lane is about 100 metres long - the norm is probably 300 metres for minor exits.

Traffic has to brake hard in the left lane to make the exit, thus delaying onward traffic to Galway. There is also the usual assortment of motorists who can't read huge blue signposts and dive for the exit at 120 kmph at the very last minute.

And those motorists whose cars aren't fitted with indicator bulbs as standard... Outside Dublin, the lack of indication is quite amazing (but apparently not illegal)

Mc Love

I think Junction 1 is worse - people just love to indicate/pull in to the left lane at the last moment even though there is road markings and signs telling people which lane they are supposed to be in.

I have even seen people stopping at the fork and then turning on to the M7 link, and someone reversing down the N18 link!!!

Zoney

jimbob1977,

I think this is probably a failed attempt to counteract weaving - there is a bit of an issue with M20 J1 (M7 J30) that J2 is only a couple hundred metres up the motorway.

Not sure what you could do to fix this without expensive work at J2. I think if they extended the slip road from M7, or even had it as an auxiliary lane between J1 and J2, it would result in a lot of weaving (people would join the lane earlier for J2).

Jimbob1977

Thanks Zoney,

Just to clarify - are you referring to a scenario when you are already driving on the slip road (having deprated the M7) and attempting to join the M20 Cork road?

I agree that J1 and J2 are very close together. Cars coming from M18 (Galway) arrive in the M20's right lane and slow down dramatically to reach the left lane and/or the Dooradoyle exit (aka weaving).

I was referring to a scenario where you are still driving on the M7 and intend to exit towards Cork. That exit lane is a "blink of an eye" for cars moving at 120 kmph.

limklad

I haven't noticed this on any threads. This High Junction is one big disaster since it inception, which has been the scene of many bad silly accidents before they add Traffic Lights.



I do not know why they never created a roundabout system at this road when they built it. Now with new houses nearby (North) it is going to be difficult to design a free flow/Roundabout system.

http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/LimerickCountyCouncil/M7N24BallysimonInterchange/SchemeName,16494,en.html

Does anyone have a good idea how they going to resolve this nightmare of a junction?

Mc Love

when is this taking place?

As you mentioned the houses being built in the north of the picture, there is also a train line (main limerick one??) in the bottom of the pic to contend with, it will be a massive job, they will probably have to move the road to the right??

charlemont

its the worst junction between a national primary road and motorway. they couldnt have done a worse one. the traffic lights are a joke.

Jayuu

That is a very bizarre junction. Why didn't they just build roundabouts at either side of the bridge on the N24 and route the exit/entrance lanes to the roundabouts like the one below?
It looks like there would have been enough room to do that. Indeed it looks like they could make it that way with a bit of work.

M9/N80 Junction (Junction 5)

Tragedy

It's an absolutely horrific junction. Reminds me of a few on the N4 between lucan and leixlip.

Mc Love

Jayuu wrote: »

M9/N80 Junction (Junction 5)

That would ideal, but then again we have "planners" who thought it was a good idea to put a load of islands and traffic lights on the road!

limklad

While I do not like to see Traffic lights anywhere in the country, they were a necessary and frustrating evil to have here due to the poor initial design at this junction. There was far too many serious accidents on this section of the road since it opened, I am surprised there was not many many more Terrible accidents before the Traffic lights where put in. The RSA figures only go cover 3 three years 2006 to 2008.
http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Ireland-Road-Collisions/

limklad

Mc Love wrote: »

when is this taking place?

As you mentioned the houses being built in the north of the picture, there is also a train line (main limerick one??) in the bottom of the pic to contend with, it will be a massive job, they will probably have to move the road to the right??

In the Picture I attached in the first post, there was some construction, that was Google Earth picture 4 years ago. There is now occupied houses there. This is a high Junction (see the shaddow create by the N24 on the OSI Map therefore they need extra land to fill in for a base for any roundabout.
See OSI website. http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,561888,655274,6
(STREET MAP). You can click on ORTHO 2005 and see an image of the Area as it was then 5 years ago when there was no Houses, therefore room to build roundabouts on the N24.

luohaoran

How about something like this.

The benefits are:
1. Free flow for Limerick to Tipp
2. Virtually free flow for Tipp to Limerick, Just a roundabout merge with Dublin to Tipp traffic, (fairly low numbers)
3. Virtually free flow, Limerick to Cork and Tipp to cork, just a merger of the two, on the existing on ramp.
4. Cork to Tipp becomes a merge with the Tipp road
5. Free flow Cork to Limerick
6. Dublin to Limerick becomes a roundabout merge with Tipp to Limerick.

So its as close to a free flow system as you can get. The biggest problem being the merge with the Limerick to Tipp , of the Cork - Tipp traffic, which will have just merged with the Dublin to Tipp traffic. A roundabout might be needed where the current D - C off ramp connects with the Tipp road.

What do ye think?

There would be some rework needed where the Tipp - Limerick traffic rejoins the Ballysimon Road, but nothing dramatic, and the Tipp - Dublin traffic will have a little detour in around Ballysimon.
But I think this represents the most efficent use of whats there, while limiting the need for a big spend.

Jayuu

Not bad at all but it does seem like a lot of work.

Can somebody confirm the volume of traffic at this interchange? Does it warrant a freeflow (or near freeflow) junction? If not then a simple two-roundabout solution would seem a little more practical and achievable in the short term.

Zoney

jimbob1977,

Again, probably due to engineering constraints - just before that there is a flyover and it's likely that a slip lane wouldn't fit under that bridge (for starting before) and that starting it even sooner just after the bridge would make matters worse as the signage for the start of it would be hidden behind the bridge.

E10sr

Talking of Traffic lights, I travelled to and from Limerick via the Tunnel this evening and on the way home (west bound)noticed the installation of regular traffic lights on the approach to the tunnel, also about midway through and again at the exit, did not notice them earlier while traveling east bound.
It looked as if its set up to allow traffic flow both ways in one tube.
Anybody care to throw any Light on this??

Chris_5339762

Lights outside of tunnels are common in Europe anyway. Stops people entering if something happens.

Surprised the Jack Lynch got built without them.

rainbowdash

I travelled Bunratty - Charleville today. About 30 minutes each way handy. The tunnel changes the dynamic of the region completely.

The tunnel is a nobrainer for occassional users, not sure if I would fancy paying the toll every day, although it must save a bit in fuel.

Gort - to places like Charleville and Nenagh will be under an hour each way soon.

Mc Love

Bunratty to Charleville in 30 mins is very good

mcgeebers

It appears the NRA need to adopt the same approach to the Limerick Tunnel as they did to the Dublin Port Tunnel and cut the tolls to promote greater usage.

trellheim

the Port Tunnel is not a PPP, its state infrastructure if I recall rightly, and so they can play around all they want with the charges. Limerick Tunnel is a PPP.

Now if you tolled the ring road you'd be onto something.

Mc Love

maybe if they do what they did on the m50 with reduced charges for the tag/video option??

limklad

E10sr wrote: »

Talking of Traffic lights, I travelled to and from Limerick via the Tunnel this evening and on the way home (west bound)noticed the installation of regular traffic lights on the approach to the tunnel, also about midway through and again at the exit, did not notice them earlier while traveling east bound.
It looked as if its set up to allow traffic flow both ways in one tube.
Anybody care to throw any Light on this??

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Lights outside of tunnels are common in Europe anyway. Stops people entering if something happens.

Surprised the Jack Lynch got built without them.

It is about bloody time they install traffic lights. They should have them on the Dock Road Junction, not on the road before of the Tunnel with large warning sign (not the tiny unnoticeable electronic sign) on the Road before the Dock Road Junction to warn truck drivers that their loads are not appropriate for Tunnel usage and to take the Dock Road route.

Berty

Hindsight is a fine thing but I never understood why they didnt simply build the N24 Flyover as an underpass.

Have the M7 SRR as a Flyover.

Personally I think the entire section from the Newport Road Roundabout to Junction 1 is a disaster. It spent far too long as a HQDC and now it is still treated as such with incorrect roadmarkings, incorrect lighting, sulkies and what I saw today which baffled me.

A guy on an electric bike came down off the Dooradoyle exit headed against traffic in the hard shoulder and was heading, I assume, in the direction of Roxborough. He would have had to cross 4 on/off ramps. Couple that with pedestrians, hitch hikers and cyclists its a disaster of a stretch.

The lack of an exit at Rosbrien is also a litle tedious for rush hour traffic and the LCC is making things worse by putting obstacles on the Rosbrien Road.

sonyair

concrete bases down for emergency telephones

flyingsnail

There is an article in the Limerick post ( Saturday 30th October) about implementing a 3 ton limit on the Greenfields road and extending the traffic calming measures as far as the intersection with the southern ring road, I assume they are talking about the speed bumps. The article can be viewed on page 27 of the online edition here.

I don't think extending the speed bumps is a great idea but I definitely think they should introduce the 3 ton limit.

corktina

i LOVE the way the tunnel warning signs have a " no horse and carts" symbol...ONLY in Limerick! lol

clon

It's on the Jack Lynch tunnel as well

topper75

corktina wrote: »

i LOVE the way the tunnel warning signs have a " no horse and carts" symbol...ONLY in Limerick! lol

Ah I see where you are coming from - because horse and carts are only in Limerick, right?

Maybe YOU are 'only in Limerick'.

In fairness, only time I've ever seen them on the roads is around Limerick.

re: the above

ahhahahaha

Robo_Mike

Anyone know what the traffic jam at junction 28 heading from the tunnel side was this evening? Got caught up in it on the way from home at about 17:45. Thank god for the annacotty exit, definately saved me 15-20 mins tonight to get to Castletroy!

jwcurtin

Heading from the M20 towards the tunnel one of the signs normally warning about the height restriction had a Chinese like language displayed! All other signs were fine!

runway16

topper75 wrote: »

Ah I see where you are coming from - because horse and carts are only in Limerick, right?

Maybe YOU are 'only in Limerick'.

The only place you see them with such frequency is in Limerick... sorry to disappoint you, but its the way it is.

corktina

topper75 wrote: »

Ah I see where you are coming from - because horse and carts are only in Limerick, right?

Maybe YOU are 'only in Limerick'.

no then Id be limericktina would I not?:D

topper75

So there is no sulky riding in Cork?

Amtmann

topper75 wrote: »

So there is no sulky riding in Cork?

Not once in six years did I ever see one in or around Cork City. Plenty around Cashel and Clonmel these days though.

Matt Bauer

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness, only time I've ever seen them on the roads is around Limerick.

I've seen them in Cork as well, though I suppose I've seen them in Limerick most frequently.

Mc Love

Anyone else think the condition of the road at Finnegans is very poor? There is a section where the new layer meets the old DC layer and its very bumpy.

Here:
http://www.google.ie/maps?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Limerick,+County+Limerick&ll=52.667951,-8.515348&spn=0.030398,0.09304&z=14&layer=c&cbll=52.667665,-8.515468&panoid=ufezCyd7xQE2n-9ZLOj6TQ&cbp=12,227.49,,0,8.82

IngazZagni

Mc Love wrote: »

Anyone else think the condition of the road at Finnegans is very poor? There is a section where the new layer meets the old DC layer and its very bumpy.

Here:
http://www.google.ie/maps?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Limerick,+County+Limerick&ll=52.667951,-8.515348&spn=0.030398,0.09304&z=14&layer=c&cbll=52.667665,-8.515468&panoid=ufezCyd7xQE2n-9ZLOj6TQ&cbp=12,227.49,,0,8.82

That image is probably a year old. Although I haven't seen that part lately I would assume that a final layer has been put down and that it's grand now.

Jimbob1977

I'm curious to see how the M20 Northbound to M7 Eastbound (i.e. Dooradoyle to Dublin) ramp will handle in icy conditions this winter.

It's already dangerous enough with its steep ascent and narrow width. I don't want to be the first person to test the effectiveness of its crash barriers in thick ice!! The drop must be fifty feet down the embankment.

Truck drivers must dread the hard slog upwards into a corkscrew bend.

flyingsnail

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I'm curious to see how the M20 Northbound to M7 Eastbound (i.e. Dooradoyle to Dublin) ramp will handle in icy conditions this winter.

It's already dangerous enough with its steep ascent and narrow width. I don't want to be the first person to test the effectiveness of its crash barriers in thick ice!! The drop must be fifty feet down the embankment.

Truck drivers must dread the hard slog upwards into a corkscrew bend.

I don't know about the icy conditions but you would definitely not the first person to test the crash barriers on that curve.

Mc Love

IngazZagni wrote: »

That image is probably a year old. Although I haven't seen that part lately I would assume that a final layer has been put down and that it's grand now.

I know that - its the only recent pic i could find, its still very bumpy in the left hand lane at this point - which is hard to understand