M7-N18 Limerick South Ring Road thread

ItHurtsWhenIP

I used the tunnel in the last couple of weeks cos of the bad weather (I normally take the back roads around Limerick to get to Shannon) and the one thing that annoyed me trying to use the express lane was idiots who tailgate you and then you are both denied the fast (~50kph) way through the toll plaza.

Why don't the operators put up signs to tell people how to use the express lanes properly?

Berty

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

Why don't the operators put up signs to tell people how to use the express lanes properly?

They do but people are generally stupid and dont read signs. Sheep mentality you see.

I don't use the Express Lane because my tag does not work on the mainline like 1000's of other tags for some reason. I just use the basket only ones. I have seen rental cars getting smacked by barrier in the express lane on multiple plazas around the country because of "sheep mentality".

I have seen people sitting in the express lane wondering why they cannot get through, somebody arrives behind them, tag gets read, barrier opens and numpty sneaks through and the paying customer gets blocked.

Tech3

Got this in my inbox today:

Dear

---

We would like to notify you of an error that occurred during the Limerick Tunnel Toll Plaza billing process.

Limerick Tunnel advised that certain passages made during the months of October and November 2010 did not appear on customer accounts. These passages will appear on eFlow customer accounts in the month of January 2011.

Your account has been affected by these issues. Journeys made by your vehicle through the Limerick Tunnel during the months of October and November 2010, will appear on your monthly statement for January 2011.

Since this has been brought to our attention we have made the appropriate contact with Limerick Tunnel to rectify this issue and to reduce the risk of reoccurrence.

Please feel free to call us if you have any questions on LoCall: 1890-50-10-50.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your continued custom.

Yours sincerely

Amtmann

Anyone spot the new signage installed on the old N7 from the Newport Roundabout towards Annacotty? At two points the directions for the M20, M7, N24, N69 and N18 point towards the city rather than the actual motorway junction. Ludicrous that this was allowed up.

Mc Love

Didnt see it but I saw a D reg merc going around the roundabout yesterday and hadnt a clue where they were going!

Tech3

Anyone else see in the Limerick Post this week that €2million will be allocated towards the upgrade of the Ballysimon road interchange? I'm not sure what they can exactly do to improve the traffic situation there.

Amtmann

Tech3 wrote: »

Anyone else see in the Limerick Post this week that €2million will be allocated towards the upgrade of the Ballysimon road interchange? I'm not sure what they can exactly do to improve the traffic situation there.

How far would 2 milllion go? I have no idea. I presume we're looking at some earthworks and realignment for that money?

Any indication of dates Tech3?

Pete_Cavan

Tremelo wrote: »

How far would 2 milllion go? I have no idea. I presume we're looking at some earthworks and realignment for that money?

Any indication of dates Tech3?

See here. €2m only gets you the consultants.

Tech3

Tremelo wrote: »

How far would 2 milllion go? I have no idea. I presume we're looking at some earthworks and realignment for that money?

I really dont know what can be down for the junction, the way it was designed makes it impossible to upgrade it to a dumbell type junction. I think an extra lane might be added probably outbound as it is chaos in the evening peak hours.

Any indication of dates Tech3?

I think it was stated in the article that they hoped for work to start in Autumn

Berty

Surely the 2 million will be for the rental of LED signs saying

"Traffic queues likely"

Although they could manage to switch on the filters so that people heading onto the onramps could actually use the YIELD signs designed for that exact filtering reason.

RandomAccess

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/may/31/standard-and-poors-downgrade-limerick-tunnel

Yet another noose around our neck.

Amtmann

Emergency phones are now installed along the SRR.

Mc Love

Dont think they are working yet Tremelo

CerebralCortex

Anyone know why the road labelled Ballykeefe/Dock Rd here is so neglected?

Zoney

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Anyone know why the road labelled Ballykeefe/Dock Rd here is so neglected?

It's a country laneway that the city has grown out to meet. Given it's location and how the main road network has grown, there are only two options, do nothing with it (don't encourage anyone to use it) or convert it at huge expense and for poor traffic results, into an urban link.

No doubt with Celtic-tiger style development it would eventually have had estates plonked along it and been crudely upgraded piecemeal in the usual fashion.

CerebralCortex

Zoney wrote: »

It's a country laneway that the city has grown out to meet. Given it's location and how the main road network has grown, there are only two options, do nothing with it (don't encourage anyone to use it) or convert it at huge expense and for poor traffic results, into an urban link.

No doubt with Celtic-tiger style development it would eventually have had estates plonked along it and been crudely upgraded piecemeal in the usual fashion.

How much would a road like that cost to upgrade? From what I can tell the thing it needs most is widening. Of course you're right there are houses and developments plonked along side it.

highlydebased

Leave it, nothing wrong with it. Handy shortcut for going over to the crescent though. Lack of signposting for same will only see locals know about it.

Red Silurian

If too many people start using it then it'll take longer to get to the crescent.... I say leave well-enough alone

CerebralCortex

highlydebased wrote: »

Leave it, nothing wrong with it. Handy shortcut for going over to the crescent though. Lack of signposting for same will only see locals know about it.

colmtheperson wrote: »

If too many people start using it then it'll take longer to get to the crescent.... I say leave well-enough alone

So more and wider roads in an area that has pathetic roads means higher congestion? How do you figure?

veryangryman

CerebralCortex wrote: »

So more and wider roads in an area that has pathetic roads means higher congestion? How do you figure?

The better the road, the more people will use it instead of other routes. Ergo, can lead to congestion

Club orange...Thank you for asking...

Cookiemunster

CerebralCortex wrote: »

So more and wider roads in an area that has pathetic roads means higher congestion? How do you figure?

This area does not have pathetic roads. It's a residential area which has adequate roads for residential traffic. There is already a route between the Dock Rd. (N69) and St Nessans Rd. (R526). The R510. There is already a rat run from the roundabout at the junction of the R510 and Fr Russell Road, along Fr Russell Road to the R526 and widening this road would only make this rat run worse.

CerebralCortex

Cookiemunster wrote: »

This area does not have pathetic roads. It's a residential area which has adequate roads for residential traffic. There is already a route between the Dock Rd. (N69) and St Nessans Rd. (R526). The R510. There is already a rat run from the roundabout at the junction of the R510 and Fr Russell Road, along Fr Russell Road to the R526 and widening this road would only make this rat run worse.

What about the Crescent shopping centre? Very difficult to get to at peak times.

highlydebased

Part of the problem with the crescent is the traffic lights at the entrance/exit. Similarly having the entrances/exits all on the one road doesnt help.

CerebralCortex

highlydebased wrote: »

Part of the problem with the crescent is the traffic lights at the entrance/exit. Similarly having the entrances/exits all on the one road doesnt help.

And the fact that Dooradoyle is so cramped. But what's new with Irish suburbs?

Cookiemunster

CerebralCortex wrote: »

What about the Crescent shopping centre? Very difficult to get to at peak times.

What about it? Extra traffic shouldn't be routed through a residential area just so people can get to the Crescent.
As said by another poster the issue with the Crescent is the Entrances/Exits being on the same traffic light ravaged road within 200m of each other. Creating another rat run onto Fr Russell Road won't change this.

CerebralCortex

Cookiemunster wrote: »

What about it? Extra traffic shouldn't be routed through a residential area just so people can get to the Crescent.
As said by another poster the issue with the Crescent is the Entrances/Exits being on the same traffic light ravaged road within 200m of each other. Creating another rat run onto Fr Russell Road won't change this.

I stand corrected thanks for your responses. What could be done to improve roads in the area?

Sponge Bob

The Annual Report from the Comptroller and Auditor General has this ( period 2011)

http://www.audgen.gov.ie/documents/annualreports/2011/report/en/Chapter6.pdf Page 5

This is a bit confusing as the M3 and the Tunnel are lumped together.

The Limerick Tunnel contract provides for a 6% increase in the 2012 level of traffic over 2011.
Subsequent increases are smaller but continue until 2035, after which the traffic guarantee will
remain unchanged.

On a similar basis, the projected traffic levels using the Limerick Tunnel will not reach the
guaranteed traffic levels and the State will make additional payments to the PPP company for the
whole duration of the contract (i.e. until 2041).

( Noted further that )

The traffic levels, which are well below the base case scenarios underpinning the PPP contracts, will also have
an impact on the PPP companies’ returns relative to those envisaged at contract signing.

H1 2011 Traffic was 12.5k per day.
H2 2011 Traffic was 15.5k per day.
H1 2012 Traffic was 14.5k per day

Average over next payout period to 06/12 was 15k a day....big improvement that.

starch4ser

i LOVE the way the tunnel warning signs have a " no horse and carts" symbol...ONLY in Limerick! lol

It's on the Jack Lynch tunnel as well

I always assumed that was for the benefit of the residents of Corks largest halting site which was located just before the southern entrance of the tunnel.

Limerick74

Article on RTE.ie regarding traffic guarantee on the Limerick Tunnel http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0402/606180-tolls/ where Minister Varadkar is quoted "He said that one way of bringing down the traffic guarantee payments would be to take away the toll for HGVs as the level of traffic going through would increase and reduce the traffic guarantee payment."

Surely the Toll Operators would be looking for state to cover the loss of tolls from the HGVs currently using the tunnel? This cost could exceed the reduction in traffic guarantee payments. Hopefully some mechanism can be agreed to take the extra trucks out of the city.

flyingsnail

surely a good way to increase the number of hgv going through the tunnel would be to decrease the cost for them but not necessarily make it free, it is currently €6 for a hgv to go through the tunnel.

Godge

Limerick74 wrote: »

Article on RTE.ie regarding traffic guarantee on the Limerick Tunnel http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0402/606180-tolls/ where Minister Varadkar is quoted "He said that one way of bringing down the traffic guarantee payments would be to take away the toll for HGVs as the level of traffic going through would increase and reduce the traffic guarantee payment."

Surely the Toll Operators would be looking for state to cover the loss of tolls from the HGVs currently using the tunnel? This cost could exceed the reduction in traffic guarantee payments. Hopefully some mechanism can be agreed to take the extra trucks out of the city.

flyingsnail wrote: »

surely a good way to increase the number of hgv going through the tunnel would be to decrease the cost for them but not necessarily make it free, it is currently €6 for a hgv to go through the tunnel.

Just ban HGVs from the city centre bridges. Sorted.

AugustusMinimus

Godge wrote: »

Just ban HGVs from the city centre bridges. Sorted.

So if a company wants to make a delivery from one side of the city centre over the Shannon to the other side using a HGV, they'll have to use the tunnel ?

Crazy stuff.

veryangryman

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

So if a company wants to make a delivery from one side of the city centre over the Shannon to the other side using a HGV, they'll have to use the tunnel ?

Crazy stuff.

And yet somehow it works in Dublin....

antoobrien

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

So if a company wants to make a delivery from one side of the city centre over the Shannon to the other side using a HGV, they'll have to use the tunnel ?

Crazy stuff.

http://www.dublincity.ie/ROADSANDTRAFFIC/HGV/Pages/HGV%20Management%20Strategy.aspx

The Dublin City Council HGV Management Strategy was introduced on the 19 February 2007. The HGV Strategy provides for a ban on 5+ axle vehicles during the hours of 07.00-19.00 seven days a week from a designated cordon area and provides a limited permit scheme for 5+ axle vehicles that need to load/unload within the city centre area. In addition, as the HGV cordon is a closed cordon around the port area, Dublin City Council operates an Eastlink Rebate Scheme for affected vehicles.

Irish_rat

Thought I'd bump this thread. Daily traffic counters between M7 J29(Ballysimon) and J30(Rossbrien)



Possibly another D3M section in the country in a few years.

Auxillary lane from M7/J29 (Ballysimon) to M20/J2 (Dooradoyle)

Edit: 49,699 the figure today. Not far off the cap of 52,000 but obviously needs to be averaged.

Wont be long tipping over with big expansion plans out in Northern Trust, UL and Castletroy

Irish_rat

The cost of widening would be minimal though as the current DC can be expanded.

However relying on the tunnel can have it's drawbacks:

https://twitter.com/aaroadwatch/status/775034258008276992

Limerick Tunnel to remain closed northbound 'for a number of days'

Limerick tunnel closed northbound following accident The Limerick tunnel is closed northbound after an oversized tractor got stuck
THE northbound lane of the Limerick Tunnel is likely to remain closed for a number of days following an accident earlier today.

A two-way traffic system is going to be put in place on the southbound side of the link, with speed limits reduced to 50km, as repair works take place on the opposite side.

This came after an oversized agricultural vehicle carrying hay-bales became lodged in the tunnel.

Declan Cahill, the chief executive of DirectLink which runs the facility, said the five-metre high truck entered the tunnel at 8.30am this Sunday.

The maximum height of vehicles in the tunnel is 4.65m, and – Mr Cahill claimed – the driver ignored the warnings, driving through the barrier at the entrance.

“We have had quite a substantial amount of damage to signs, lights and electronic system,” he told Live95FM news.

In a statement, DirectRoute warned motorists travelling northbound on the N18 to expect delays.

The company confirmed equipment in the tunnel damaged is being removed by specialist contractors.

“Replacement of this equipment will take a period of time. An assessment is currently being undertaken,” a spokesperson said.

Mr Cahill confirmed work to repair the tunnel’s northbound lane will take “a number of days”, with vehicles sharing the southbound road for the time being.

The company added: “DirectRoute (Limerick) Ltd apologises for any inconvenience this unavoidable disruption has caused to our customers. We will send further updates when we have more information.”

Fine Gael councillor Daniel Butler, who is based in Raheen, says traffic is “chronic” around the Mungret Cement factory roundabout.

He said traffic is even backing up onto the M7 motorway – and is concerned at the delays come Monday morning.

Link

This is going to be nightmare in the morning

lukejr

Irish_rat wrote: »

Thought I'd bump this thread. Daily traffic counters between M7 J29(Ballysimon) and J30(Rossbrien)

Thanks for the stats. Where can we view the road capacity numbers, are these on the tii.ie website?

Irish_rat

lukejr wrote: »

Thanks for the stats. Where can we view the road capacity numbers, are these on the tii.ie website?

https://www.nratrafficdata.ie

Some high figures again this last past week between J29 and J30.

43374 M
46742 T
46270 W
48188 T
49464 F

It's a great resource by TII and will be very important for projections of traffic into the future.

marno21

Best thing about this road is that they had the foresight to make J30 a proper freeflow junction for motorway-motorway interchanging instead of another roundabout.

Same with the M20 where the N20 and the N21 merge. These days that would be a roundabout.

Irish_rat

I think some improvements need to be made now to the bypass

Firstly the M20 ramp (J30) from the M7 southbound should really be two lanes. We have dead motorways in the middle of the country with two lanes splitting off. This road has nearly 45-50k cars a day. Every morning and evening cars breaking and weaving all over the place to get off at this junction.

Secondly and probably more importantly, N18 J2 has been a nightmare from the get go. Since its become absolute mayhem at peak time, I think they need to make a freeflow slip outbound done as the dumbell is jammed.

Oddly enough I think M7 J29 is pretty good now considering 20k cars a day come in from the N24 it functions pretty well

marno21

Irish_rat wrote: »

I think some improvements need to be made now to the bypass

Firstly the M20 ramp (J30) from the M7 southbound should really be two lanes. We have dead motorways in the middle of the country with two lanes splitting off. This road has nearly 45-50k cars a day. Every morning and evening cars breaking and weaving all over the place to get off at this junction.

I've said this often, and also it needs to be extended as an auxilliary lane as far as J2 Dooradoyle. Whilst the slip can be taken at 100km/h and for that reason there's no need for a massive long merge, some people slow right down to take it and cause a hazard, and a large amount of people just get back off at J2, they have to merge onto the M20 mainline for about 200m and then leave again .

Irish_rat wrote: »

Secondly and probably more importantly, N18 J2 has been a nightmare from the get go. Since its become absolute mayhem at peak time, I think they need to make a freeflow slip outbound done as the dumbell is jammed.

Ridiculous that there's no freeflow slip from Dock Rd outbound -> N18E. Plenty of space for it, the onramp is already 2 lanes so not an issue. Would solve major problems with the Dock Rd outbound, which jams some days most of the way back to the Shannon Bridge Roundabout.

Irish_rat wrote: »

Oddly enough I think M7 J29 is pretty good now considering 20k cars a day come in from the N24 it functions pretty well

I have to applaud the junction designers here. Having 2 lanes from M7E -> N24 prevents congestion there. Giving extended right filter turns from R527 -> M7W helps there, and the 2 lanes each way on the N24 stop long queues forming. Overall, the junction which previously was a major mess now rarely has delays of more than a minute, which given the circumstances is excellent.

Mc Love

James Collins had up on facebook there about "fixing" that M20/M7/N18 junction to allow traffic into the city from M20

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

James Collins had up on facebook there about "fixing" that M20/M7/N18 junction to allow traffic into the city from M20

He had this article from the Limerick Leader. I think opening this junction into Roxboro would be a terrible idea. That road ends in a T junction and there would be huge tailbacks onto the M20 as there used to be before the current junction was built. Its also a residential area and motorway traffic heading into the city center shouldn't be routed through such an area.

marno21

Cookiemunster wrote: »

He had this article from the Limerick Leader. I think opening this junction into Roxboro would be a terrible idea. That road ends in a T junction and there would be huge tailbacks onto the M20 as there used to be before the current junction was built. Its also a residential area and motorway traffic heading into the city center shouldn't be routed through such an area.

Existing traffic going towards the city/Childers Road either uses the old N20/R526 or the Rossbrien Road. Both, especially the latter go through residential areas, and the Rossbrien road is not capable of being a city centre access route from a motorway. There are no houses fronting onto that link road between the M20 and the Childers Road and to my knowledge there are few if any houses along the Childers Rd.

Cookiemunster

marno21 wrote: »

Existing traffic going towards the city/Childers Road either uses the old N20/R526 or the Rossbrien Road. Both, especially the latter go through residential areas, and the Rossbrien road is not capable of being a city centre access route from a motorway. There are no houses fronting onto that link road between the M20 and the Childers Road and to my knowledge there are few if any houses along the Childers Rd.

Janesboro and Rathbane, both large housing estates facing onto Childers Rd., are 100m from the junction as is Janesboro primary school and Le Cheile national school is about 500m in the other direction. Traffic is already chaotic at the Roxboro Rd roundabout during the morning and evening rush hours. This area sinply couldn't handle the extra traffic that would be created.

Just because Rosbrien can't handle the current traffic doesn't mean that this area can.

Mc Love

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Janesboro and Rathbane, both large housing estates facing onto Childers Rd., are 100m from the junction as is Janesboro primary school and Le Cheile national school is about 500m in the other direction. Traffic is already chaotic at the Roxboro Rd roundabout during the morning and evening rush hours. This area sinply couldn't handle the extra traffic that would be created.

Just because Rosbrien can't handle the current traffic doesn't mean that this area can.

Yeah but the childers road would be more accomodating to that traffic than the Rosbrien rd. If the road was opened up, some would still go via the rosbrien road and some would also take the new road. It would divide it up tbh! Traffic is back up well past the railway tracks on the rosbrien road in the morning. Thats hardly ideal is it, wouldnt it better if traffic was split between the two areas

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

Yeah but the childers road would be more accomodating to that traffic than the Rosbrien rd. If the road was opened up, some would still go via the rosbrien road and some would also take the new road. It would divide it up tbh! Traffic is back up well past the railway tracks on the rosbrien road in the morning. Thats hardly ideal is it, wouldnt it better if traffic was split between the two areas

Before the current setup opened traffic used to back up to J2 on the M20. If the junction couldn't handle the traffic 10 years ago, it can't handle it now. Having motorway traffic exit at a T junction is something that simply shouldn't happen.

marno21

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Before the current setup opened traffic used to back up to J2 on the M20. If the junction couldn't handle the traffic 10 years ago, it can't handle it now. Having motorway traffic exit at a T junction is something that simply shouldn't happen.

Is this before the N7 Southern Ring was opened in 2004?

Even if it was after 2004, the traffic either had an option of going east on the N7 or in via the Childers Rd. Traffic now has the option of going west on the N18 to access the Dock Rd and also use the tunnel. Traffic can also now access UL via the Groody Rd/L5173 via the Ballysimon Interchange, so less people would use the Childers Rd access to get to UL/Castletroy.

Mc Love

I just think the benefits would certainly outweigh the cons, even in off peak times it would be a blessing to have that entry/exit point.

Cookiemunster

marno21 wrote: »

Is this before the N7 Southern Ring was opened in 2004?

Even if it was after 2004, the traffic either had an option of going east on the N7 or in via the Childers Rd. Traffic now has the option of going west on the N18 to access the Dock Rd and also use the tunnel. Traffic can also now access UL via the Groody Rd/L5173 via the Ballysimon Interchange, so less people would use the Childers Rd access to get to UL/Castletroy.

No, before the tunnel opened. I know because I used to be caught in it most evenings between 2006 and 2010. N18 bound traffic back then was directed to leave the N20 at J3 and head towards the dock road.