Your roads wish list for 2011-2020

Amtmann

Okay, in this thread you list the schemes you'd ideally like to see complete by 2020.

• List 10 schemes only, in order of preference.
• Don't include fantasy schemes - your choices should be real-world proposals that are at the route selection phase at least.
• No need to include M11 Arklow-Rathnew, Newlands Cross or M17/M18 Gort-Tuam, as these are going ahead.

My choices:

1) M20 Northern and Southern Section
Reason: Links Cork with Galway - economically strategic and improves road safety.

2) N6 Galway Outer Bypass
Reason: Economically important; environmental benefits (unless you are a bog cotton); major traffic decongestant.

3) Cork Northern Ring Road (East and West)
Reason: Major stimulus for Cork, which is the second most important economic area in the Republic.

4) M11 Enniscorthy Bypass
Reason: Economically strategic, improving access from south to south east; major decongestant; improved journey times.

5) N25 New Ross Bypass
Reason: Economically strategic, improving access from south to south east; major decongestant; improved journey times.

6) N24 Pallasgreen-Cahir
Reason: Strategic economic route linking Waterford with Limerick and Galway; major improvement in journey times; bypasses Tipp Town; major safety benefits.

7) N4 Mullingar-Longford
Improved Access to NW. Increased safety.

8) N8/N25 Dunkettle Interchange Upgrade
Reason: Major decongestant; environmental benefits; economically important. The North Ring Road, if completed first, would take some strain off this before the improvement could be undertaken, hence it's quite low down my list.

9) N28 Cork-Ringaskiddy
Again, I feel Cork must be prioritised as second city. Economic connectivity to Ringaskiddy Deepwater Port and pharmaceutical hub. Safety Benefits.

10) Motorway Service Areas
Reason: Safety. Environmental benefits. Maintains motorway level of service.

I've left out important items such as the Slane Bypass as this and similar projects are so short. I've also left out the N25 Cork-Waterford sections, the N11 Oilgate to Rosslare, N4 Sligo Bypass and numerous longer N2 improvements (as I feel Dublin-Derry should be rationalised and integrated with the M1) and the LOR/DOOR. My numbering preferences aren't cast iron, but generally indicate my sense of what needs doing.

AOwannabe

I see you didn't include N21 Adare to Abbeyfeale which I think is correct because, while it would be great to connect Limerick to Kerry with a high quality road, it just doesn't fall in to the economically strategic category.

Maybe they should just build a bypass of Adare, bypass of Newcastle West and a bypass of Abbeyfeale. Along with the soon-to-be completed bypass of Castleisland surely this would be enough for this route?

Irish and Proud

My wish list would be...

1) M1 Widening to at least Jct 4 @ Lissenhall (congestion)

2) M8/N25 Dunkettle Interchange (congestion)

3) Motorway Services (should be provided on long distance motorways)

4) Slane Bypass (22 crosses - need I say more???)

5) N25 CSRR Interchanges @ Bandon and Sarsfield Roads (congestion)

6) M20 Cork to Limerick (including CNRR to M8) (economic development/safety)

7) N25 Cork to Waterford as 2+2 (economic development)

8) N24 Limerick to Waterford as 2+2 (economic development)

9) M4 to Longford - should be Motorway IMO (access to West & Northwest)

10) N5 to Westport as S2/2+2 (economic development)

Amtmann

Irish and Proud wrote: »

My wish list would be...

4) Slane Bypass (22 crosses - need I say more???)

You needn't. My first draft of preferences included this, but I scotched it in favour of what I consider to be bigger, more complex schemes. I felt that such a small scheme as the Slane Bypass will probably get built regardless owing to its short length so I decided to list more substantial schemes.

5) N25 CSRR Interchanges @ Bandon and Sarsfield Roads (congestion)

I'd also dearly love to see these done and was loathe to omit them from my list, which seems Cork-centric enough as it is. With any luck these will kick off in 2011.

8) N24 Limerick to Waterford as 2+2 (economic development)

Another preferred scheme of mine. I chose just one section (Pallasgreen to Cahir) as it's the longest of the proposed N24 upgrades, the most beneficial, and the only one likely to start before 2020. It also connects the M8 and the M18, bar the bad bit between Ballysimon and Pallasgreen.

I think whatever substantial schemes go ahead will be progressed as PPPs.

sk8board

Just 1:

as mentioned above:

M1 Widening from the airport to Lissenhall. Its only 6km, and the margin is there to easily complete the work

-Corkie-

I would agree with Furet but I would include the extention of the N17 to Sligo and on to Letterkenny. Maybe you should change the title to top 11 wish list..:)

rameire

1) Athy southern distributer road

2) Athy inner relief road

3) Upgrade of M7 from The ball at Naas to 3 lane carriageway either side all the way to the M9 Junction

4) Newlands Cross upgrade to Freeflow

5) Slane bypass

6) Motorway service area's on the M9 - I want a Burger King that is close to me and open at reasonable hours.

7)Re-alignment of the old airport road around the airport ( Dublin )

8) Cork Northern Ring Road

9) M1 widening to Lisenhall.

10) Talking Heads - Road to Nowhere

Ren2k7

1. M20 Cork to Limerick - Vital that the 2nd and 3rd largest cities in the Republic are linked.
2. M2/A5 Derry to Dublin motorway/DC - It's silly not to link the largest city in Ireland with a major city like Derry with a population approaching 100,000.
3. N13/N15/N17 HQDC upgrade - Provides a high quality route between the Greater Derry Area (Derry City, suburban Derry and Letterkenny - 237,000), Sligo (pop. c.20,000) and the M17 motorway at Tuam. This would also provide a vital Interurban route in the same manner as Cork - Limerick - Galway.
4. M25 Cork to Waterford - Same reason as above. Would link two large urban centres with each other via a high quality route.
5. M24 Limerick to Waterford - Along with the above motorways this would provide ALL the cities on this island with a direct high quality road connection with one another and would be future proofed for at least 100 years.
6. M4 Mullingar to Sligo - Finish off the M4 and provides a motorway linking the North West with Dublin.
7. LOOR - For obvious reasons
8. M50 Eastern Bypass
9. Sligo - Cavan - Dundalk route
10. N55 2+2 upgrade - For selfish reasons I mentioned a while back :P.

Just to clarify, I think if there is going to be upgrades to roads in sparsely populated between major urban centres then they should be done to HQDC standard, in the same way many sparsely populated areas between Dublin and Cork/Galway/Limerick/Waterford have a motorway.

Hence, the west should get motorways as they would lie on strategically important route ways between major urban centres.

Amtmann

Ren2k7 wrote: »

1. M20 Cork to Limerick - Vital that the 2nd and 3rd largest cities in the Republic are linked.
2. M2/A5 Derry to Dublin motorway/DC - It's silly not to link the largest city in Ireland with a major city like Derry with a population approaching 100,000.
3. N13/N15/N17 HQDC upgrade - Provides a high quality route between the Greater Derry Area (Derry City, suburban Derry and Letterkenny - 237,000), Sligo (pop. c.20,000) and the M17 motorway at Tuam. This would also provide a vital Interurban route in the same manner as Cork - Limerick - Galway.
4. M25 Cork to Waterford - Same reason as above. Would link two large urban centres with each other via a high quality route.
5. M24 Limerick to Waterford - Along with the above motorways this would provide ALL the cities on this island with a direct high quality road connection with one another and would be future proofed for at least 100 years.
6. M4 Mullingar to Sligo - Finish off the M4 and provides a motorway linking the North West with Dublin.
7. LOOR - For obvious reasons
8. M50 Eastern Bypass
9. Sligo - Cavan - Dundalk route
10. N55 2+2 upgrade - For selfish reasons I mentioned a while back :P.

Just to clarify, I think if there is going to be upgrades to roads in sparsely populated between major urban centres then they should be done to HQDC standard, in the same way many sparsely populated areas between Dublin and Cork/Galway/Limerick/Waterford have a motorway.

Hence, the west should get motorways as they would lie on strategically important route ways between major urban centres.

That's about thirty schemes! There are eight separate projects for the N24 alone. In straightened times, we will be lucky to get any major individual schemes completed outside of the PPP framework let alone upgrades to entire routes, which is why I asked people to be judicious in their choices. An M25/M24 and the kitchen sink might be nice, but realistically, if you were in charge, which ten specific currently-on-the-table schemes would you prioritise?

Ren2k7

Furet wrote: »

That's about thirty schemes! There are eight separate projects for the N24 alone. In straightened times, we will be lucky to get any major individual schemes completed outside of the PPP framework let alone upgrades to entire routes, which is why I asked people to be judicious in their choices. An M25/M24 and the kitchen sink might be nice, but realistically, if you were in charge, which ten specific currently-on-the-table schemes would you prioritise?

I only just after reading the bit were you want currently proposed schemes and not ones dreamt up by folk here. However, I still stand over my comments about building motorways between major urban centres rather than 2+2s. We should be consistent with road building in this country.

If Cork, Limerick and Galway are judged to be deserving of a motorway then so too should the North West/Derry region, a large economic centre of the island, as should every city on the island. Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford, Sligo (applying for city status), Derry and Belfast should be linked together by Motorway.

Anyway, here's my list of currently mooted schemes from the NRA I think should be prioritised:

1. M20 Northern Section
2. M20 Southern Section
3. Cork Northern Ring Road
4. Cork SRR Flyovers
5. Cork Dunkettle Interchange
6. M25 Cork to Middleton
7. N/M?25 Middleton to Youghal
8. M4 Mullingar to Longford
9. Leinster Outer Orbital Route
10. M50 Eastern Bypass

Very Cork centric but I think Ireland's second city has been neglected for too long and needs the schemes proposed for it to be prioritised.

bacon&cabbage

1) M20 Northern Section*

*Assuming Adare by pass is included, if not, Adare is definitely no 1, I'm fed up of looking at Adare in slow motion everyday :mad:

2) M20 Southern Section

3) N6 Galway Outer Bypass
Galway, especially during the summer is just crazy, badly needed

4) M8/N25 Dunkettle Interchange

5) Cork Northern Ring Road

6) M1 Widening to Jct 4 at least

7) M7 Widening to Jct 14 at least

8) N25 Cork to Waterford (2+2)

9) N24 Limerick to Waterford (2+2)

10) M4 to Longford

charlemont

N24 Pallasgreen to bansha (or hopefully even to J10 at cahir) a murderous road, cant understand how its so neglected , its actually a very busy road..

A5 derry aughnacloy derry being only city now not connected to dublin, also serves omagh, monaghan town, strabane and letterkenny..

N28 Bloomfield interchange to ringaskiddy. that road is very short , shouldnt take long to built..

N22 Macroom to baile bhuirne, a glorified cow path..

i dont think much more large road projects will be built in the next few years so id love to see some regional roads get a realignment using staggered junctions and roundabouts with a hard wearing surface and even cats eyes !!

R662 Tipperary to mitchelstown (R513)

runway16

Hello,

Here's my list!

1) M20 Cork - Limerick. Vital. Enuff said

2) Extend the M3 to provide a high quality route to Sligo and Donegal south, even potential for serving Derry

3) Leinster Outer Orbital, so the M50 doesnt get scull****ed again in a few years

4) N24 - An awful route, and one heavily travelled by tourists heading west from Rosslare

5) Assuming the M17 goes ahead as planned, further development of it to Sligo / Donegal

6) N25 - should be motorway standard from Waterford to Cork at least

7) Major Improvements to the likes of the N80,N52 and other routes linking the midlands gateway towns (also forms easy links between the M4/M6, M7/M8)

8) Cork North Ring Route

9) M1 widening to 4 lanes each way to Lisenhall.

10) M7 widening to M9 split

I could think of a couple more...;-)

Zoney

1) M20 (a cheat - two schemes)
2) N21 Adare Bypass
3) N28 Cork-Ringaskiddy
4) M7 widening (Naas Road to M9 or even Kildare)
5) N22 Cork North Ring
6) N6 Galway Bypass
7) N21 Abbeyfeale-Adare
8) N24 Pallasgreen-Bansha, Bansha-Cahir (another cheat, 2 schemes)
9) N24 Cahir-Clonmel

I think the lack of N21 improvements are going to actually become more of an issue once M7 is complete.

Furet - I'm actually taking you up on that point about Dunkettle - I think the North ring as a result does come ahead in priority.

N28 is just a joke - absolutely ridiculous.

N24 also ridiculous and another situation where traffic levels are probably held back from what they should be (and even so, rising given the use as a connection to the interurban motorways). I'd add more N24 in here but taking up two slots on the priority list is about the most I can do really - we'll be lucky to have Pallasgrean-Bansha done (pathetically not even quite reaching Cahir!).

For other schemes I don't have on my list (Midlands/Southeast/Northwest), probably much needed but IMO not as high priority as the ones I've listed. Maybe I'm not familiar enough with the Southeast, but I would think that with existing improvements (substantial and already having jumped the priority list) they could get by for now.

Amtmann

Zoney wrote: »

8) N24 Pallasgreen-Bansha, Bansha-Cahir (another cheat, 2 schemes)

N24 also ridiculous and another situation where traffic levels are probably held back from what they should be (and even so, rising given the use as a connection to the interurban motorways). I'd add more N24 in here but taking up two slots on the priority list is about the most I can do really - we'll be lucky to have Pallasgrean-Bansha done (pathetically not even quite reaching Cahir!).

From what I've seen, Pallasgreen-Bansha and Bansha to Cahir have been consolidated into one scheme, which is a great choice. Now, I've not seen this pointed out in the NRA's pdf list of suspended schemes:



But, see here. Also, this engineer explicitly states that he is working on the EIS for Pallasgreen to Cahir.

Furet - I'm actually taking you up on that point about Dunkettle - I think the North ring as a result does come ahead in priority.

It's good to see that people seem to favour several of the same schemes as me. Probably means my choices weren't too barmy.

-Corkie-

Allthough I would live without the Cork ring roads for another while. I would have my preference on other projects mentioned even though I live in Cork..

Irish and Proud

runway16 wrote: »

....

9) M1 widening to 4 lanes each way to Lisenhall...

Not enough room on Broadmeadow Bridge for that. At the moment, there's no hard-shoulder, 2 lanes, plus provision for a third lane each way. Extra bridges for D4+ would lead to trouble due to the Broadmeadow Estuary Conservation Area.

In any case, the LOOR will probably happen by the time there's a need for D4 on the M1. We do need D3 though - to at least Lissenhall, but probably to Balbriggan or Gormanston in case of any economic upturn... :pac::pac::pac:

Regards!

SeanW

Well, from what I know about, here is my priority list.

1. Newlands Cross - doesn't matter whether it's going ahead on paper or not, the pressure must be on to ensure it is done. For the amount of time it could save for the number of people affected, it needs to be priority number 1.
2. M4 Mullingar-Longford at least, maybe 2+2 Longford-Tomiskey. Would have the benefit of bypassing 3 towns en-route, Rathowen, Ballinalack and Newtownforbes, all of which cause a severe slowdown and bunching of traffic, probably trashing the quality of life for the locals, plus Newtownforbes which is bigger and has an extremely bad bend unsuited to a national primary road.
3. Upgrade of the McNeads Bridge N4 DC, preferably to Motorway standard. Redesignation of the Mullingar Bypass.
4. N4 bypasses, preferably grade separated 2+2 DC, of any un-bypassed towns West of the Dromod-Rooskey DC.
5. M20 Limerick-Cork.
6. All planned N5 town bypasses.
7. N25, again preferably Motorway.
8. M11, the whole way
9. A 2+2 route into Co. Kerry from either the M7 or M8.

Irish and Proud

SeanW wrote: »

Well, from what I know about, here is my priority list.

1. Newlands Cross - doesn't matter whether it's going ahead on paper or not, the pressure must be on to ensure it is done. For the amount of time it could save for the number of people affected, it needs to be priority number 1.

Good Idea! - I'll add the M1 D3 Widening to Lissenhall to that!!!

SeanW wrote: »

1. M4 Mullingar-Longford at least, maybe 2+2 Longford-Tomiskey. Would have the benefit of bypassing 3 towns en-route, Rathowen, Ballinalack and Newtownforbes, all of which cause a severe slowdown and bunching of traffic, probably trashing the quality of life for the locals, plus Newtownforbes which is bigger and has an extremely bad bend unsuited to a national primary road.
2. Upgrade of the McNeads Bridge N4 DC, preferably to Motorway standard. Redesignation of the Mullingar Bypass.

Yes, it makes complete sense to have a motorway all the way to Longford Town. I was ocassionally on the Longford to Edgeworthstown section up to the early 1990's and the traffic levels were at times dangerous - even then! I'm sure a motorway for there is well justified now.

IMO, I don't think it's a hot idea using 2+2 for very long sections of road. For roads like the N21 etc, maybe a smaller type of HQDC could be used with 1.0 hard strips on both C/Ws (2 x 9.0m pavements). This type of road could be classed as an expressway - just like the Autovia (A) routes in Spain (as opposed to Autopista (AP)) - such roads would not require an alternative route (segregated cycle/walkways would be needed in such cases - pedestrians, cyclists and animals would be banned on these roads), but would still have the characteristics of a motorway. I suppose the Speed Limit would still be 100kph for such roads.

Regards!

Tech3

Heres my list for the next decade granted we already know M17/M18 is going to construction would have been my number 1 originally:


1: - M20 Northern Section: This scheme will improve safety and travel times between Cork and Limerick and also will include a N21 2+2 bypass of Adare.


2: - N6 Galway City Outer Bypass: Heavily congested city most of the time which badly requires a bypass. It will also provide quicker and safer access to the M6, M17 and M18 motorways.


3: - M20 Southern Section:Not as dangerous as the northern section but will probably start construction before it. Still important to provide a high speed link between the republics 2nd and 3rd largest cities.


4: - M4 Mullingar - Longford: Improved access from Dublin to the west and north west.


5: - N17 Tuam - Claremorris: Will bypass one of the most dangerous sections of national primary road in the country. Will also bypass Milltown and Ballindine and link Tuam bypass 2+2 to the high quality scheme of Claremorris/Knock bypass. Tubbercurry to Cooloney is worse but not closer to tender than this scheme is.


6: - N25: Cork SRR Junction upgrades Poor at-grade junctions and end result traffic madness. Would love to see the design when it's published.


7: - N5 Longford Bypass Cheap bypass needed for the N5 national primary route.


8: - N21 Adare - Abbeyfeale New 2+2 offline build will improve access from Kerry/Limerick county area to the M7/M18.


9: - MSA's on the M7,M8 and M9. These are needed now!!!


10: - M7 widening scheme from Naas to M9 split Heavily trafficked stetch which could become over capacity in the not too far future.

Amtmann

tech2 wrote: »

6: - N22: Cork NRR Junction upgrades Poor at-grade junctions and end result traffic madness. Would love to see the design when it's published.

Presume you mean the N25 SRR upgrades? Plans are here.

jwcurtin

1. N21 Adare - Abbeyfeale = 2 hours from Galway to Abbeyfeale!!!! But i think it would be easier if just Abbey, Newcastle West and Adare were bypassed as separate schemes. No town from Galway to Abbey would be a dream:rolleyes:


2. N6 Galway City Outer Bypass: Heavily congested city most of the time which badly requires a bypass. It will also provide quicker and safer access to the M6, M17 and M18 motorways. Less than 2 hours from Galway to Kerry Border

marmurr1916

In no particular order.

I've mainly selected schemes for sections of National Primary route where the road consists mainly of sub-standard single-carriageway (S2), frequently with no hard shoulders, sharp bends, poor sightlines, multiple accesses and poor surfaces.

The final three schemes are where there are significant bottlenecks on routes of major strategic importance.

1. Northern section of M20 from south of Croom to Mallow (Cos. Limerick & Cork); N20 from Cork to Mallow is okay, the section from Mallow (Newtwopothouse actually) to Croom is terrible so should get priority.

2. N2 from border to Monaghan town (Co. Monaghan); big sections of the N2 have been upgraded to an acceptable WS2 (or 2+1) standard, this section is the last significant section of sub-standard S2 north of Ardee. Once completed, I would change all signage for Derry to show the M1/N33/N2 as the main route to/from Dublin.

3. N3 from border to Butler's Bridge (Co. Cavan); the existing road is largely a narrow, winding country road which is totally inadequate as a national primary route.

4. N4 from Collooney to south of Castlebaldwin (Co. Sligo) - the M4/N4 from Dublin to past Longford is pretty good overall, most of the S2 sections are good for what they are; the road between Longford and beyond Carrick-on-Shannon also needs to be upgraded in part but I think priority should be given to this section.

5. N17 - Tobercurry to Collooney (Co. Sligo)

6. N22 - Macroom to Ballyvourney (Co. Cork)

7. N24 - Cahir (Co. Tipp) to Pallasgreen (Co. Limerick)

These three schemes are badly needed because of the terrible state of the existing roads, none of which are up to anywhere near adequate standards for national primary routes.

8. N25 - bypasses of Killeagh and Castlymartyr (Co. Cork)

9. N25 - New Ross bypass (Co. Wexford)

10. N/M11 - Enniscorthy bypass (Co. Wexford)

All major bottlenecks on key strategic routes linking the south-east and its major ports to Cork and Dublin.

alentejo

My choices

1: Newlands Cross
2: 3 lanes from Naas Rd to M7/M9 jct
3: N11 linking of Arklow Bypass with Wicklow Bypass
4: Galway Bypass
5: Dunkettle Interchange along with other jcts such as Bandon Rd
6: 3 lanes on M1 from M40 to Donabate turnoff
7: Longford Bypass
8: Rebuild of N5 between Stokestown to Charlestown with conventional national 2 lane primary standard (not 2x2 - no traffic to justify)
9: Realignment of N24 to standard 2 lane National primary standard with bypasses of Carrick on suir, tipperary and towns along the route
10: Service stations every 40 km on m-way network
11: Proper jct between A1 and M1 near Lisburn (extra I know)

citycentre

1: M6 Galway Outer Bypass This is absolutely essential and the Eastern section linking the end of the M6 to the Moycullen Road which HAS been granted permission should be started immediately. When the M17-18 is completed the Doughuisce and Ballybrit roundabouts will be an even worse nightmare than they are presently. Galway city centre to Dublin during rush hour is currently about 3 hours, one of which is spent sitting in gridlock waiting to get onto the M6. It's a disgrace.

2: M20 Both schemes The completion of an "Atlanic Corridor" is essential for the proper development of the West & SouthWest.

3: M1 Widening to Lissenhall as it's already becoming a bit of a nightmare.

4: M2/A5 Upgrade Will completely transform accessiblity for the NorthWest to all other parts of the country. A Visionary project that should be prioritized.

5: N17 Upgrade north of Tuam as far as Sligo - motorway not necessary but should be at least to the standard of the Knock Bypass with grade separation.

6: Cork North Ring

7: M7 Widening Naas to M9

8: Not currently proposed but badly needed: A decent road linking Athlone/Mullingar to the NorthEast connecting Cavan, Monaghan, Armagh - Belfast. Driving Galway - Belfast as the crow flies is a nightmare and I've taken to going Galway-Dublin-Belfast since the M6 opened. This to me is the missing link which would create a true all ireland road Network (I'd personally rather have this than the Leinster Outer Orbital as it would connect many more population centres but I dont expect to have many agree with me!)

9: N4 Longford-Boyle including grade separation of the existing "bypass" with a spur at Carrick On Shannon to the N5 taking out the horrible Strokestown- Ballaghderreen stretch. Sligo and Mayo shold not be left behind.

10: N4 Mullingar-Longford

antoobrien

citycentre wrote: »

7: M7 Widening Naas to M9

8: Not currently proposed but badly needed: A decent road linking Athlone/Mullingar to the NorthEast connecting Cavan, Monaghan, Armagh - Belfast.

I agree in principle, but Athlone - Mullingar is probably not the best fit for what's needed. I think that we need to link Longford to Portlaoise.

I'd propose Athlone to Longford and and and upgrade of N80 between Kilbeggan and Portlaoise. This would allow links into the existing W/Way system connecting the east and south (M7/8/9) to the N/M4/5/6

And I'd drop the M7 Widening, it'll only promote more development of the most expensive areas of the country, not what we need if we want the country to become economically competitive again. (not that expect agreement with this)

invinciblePRSTV

N25 Cork Metro Area improvement scheme (encompassing 3 projects)
SRR Flyovers
Dunkettle Upgrade
G/S & resurfacing of Carrigtwohill & Midleton DC

GDA Arterial upgrade (encompassing 3 projects)
Newlands X
Widening of M/N7 to M9 split
N11 gap

M20 Northern Section

N6 Galway City bypass

Either an M3 or M/N2 upgrade to the border & North West (with the Her Majesty’s treasury picking up the tab for any connecting projects in her jurisdiction).

Programme for upgrades of national secondary routes

As you can see i’ve went for a mixture of projects that are required in the areas of the state with high population & economic activity as well fulfilling key national objectives.

In the category of population and economic activity the filling in and upgrading of arterial routes in the GDA are paramount, as are the upgrades and new builds required on the N25 & N6 around Cork and Galway.

On the regional development front i’ve went for an upgrade of the either the N2 or 3 to the border in order to get the ever important regions connected to the national network.

Equally the Northern end of the M20 is also fitted in under the same criteria.

I haven’t specified what national secondaries should get an upgrade, as no doubt there are many routes with a pressing case, however i like Furets idea earlier of consolidating national secondaries into one route (like the N72 & 73).

My banker would be the N71 between Bandon & Cork, i don’t have access to traffic counts but i would imagine traffic volumes would easily warrant a low quality DC in comparison to other schemes. Perhaps even a consolidation of of the N22 & N71 with bypasses of Macroom & Bandon built in could occur.

I would imagine there are several secondary routes in the Dublin area which have traffic levels requiring an upgrade.

Amtmann

No one has mentioned the Leinster Orbital Route yet.

veryangryman

Furet wrote: »

No one has mentioned the Leinster Orbital Route yet.

Im not surprised. Who will really need it? How often these days do you come to a standstill on the M50. Very little bang for buck now that M50 is upgraded

Stark

1) M20 Cork-Limerick scheme
2) N81 2+2 to Hollywood cross
3) N22 improvements + Macroom bypass
4) M8/N25 Dunkettle interchange freeflow
5) N72 improvements.
6) Adare bypass (hopefully included in M20 scheme)
7) M7 widening.
8) N4 Mullingar - Longford
9) N6 Galway outer bypass
10) N25 Dungarvan bypass

Furet wrote:

No one has mentioned the Leinster Orbital Route yet.

Ren2k did

Amtmann

veryangryman wrote: »

Im not surprised. Who will really need it? How often these days do you come to a standstill on the M50. Very little bang for buck now that M50 is upgraded

From the LOR Feasibility Study which, I hasten to add, was published before the country's economy fell through the floor:

5.4 Conclusions

The assessment of future year deficiencies has therefore highlighted continuing reduction in levels of service on the M50. Although capacity on the M50 is currently being increased through the development of additional lane capacity and the introduction of freeflow interchanges, future demand for the M50 is expected to exceed capacity. In essence, the M50 is currently required to operate a number of functions as follows:

• It acts as a cross city route, connecting South Dublin with North Dublin. The M50 is the only high-capacity route which provides this connection without the need to travel through the heart of the City Centre, or established residential areas. Some 30% of the traffic on the M50 use the route for this purpose, representing a considerable volume of traffic on the route;

• It is an orbital route outside the City which allows traffic entering the city to chose an appropriate radial route into the City Centre. Indeed, such activity is currently encouraged, whereby traffic from Dublin City to the N7 is routed via the N4 and M50 to join the N7 at the Red Cow. This use of the M50 will cater for some 40% of the total traffic flow;

• It provides connectivity between the growing settlements around the periphery of the M50, such as Tallaght, Blanchardstown, Clondalkin, Lucan and Swords. As outlined later in this report, South Dublin County Council and Fingal County Council are currently examining local roads to improve such connections. Nonetheless, the M50 will remain an attractive route for many such movements, and will continue to provide one of the few crossings of the River Liffey; and

• It is a strategic road connecting the National Primary Routes. The M50 provides the only high quality connection between all National Primary Radial Routes, and the current geography encourages significant volumes of long distance interurban traffic into the M50 as part of their journey. For example, a journey from Drogheda to Naas is most effectively achieved via the M1, M50 and N7. The local pressures on the M50, however, inhibit easy movement of such strategic trips, and therefore has a negative impact on the development of economic links through the region in line with the objectives of the National Spatial Strategy. The volume of Strategic movements on the M50 is some 30% of the total traffic flow, when strategic trips are defined as those with an origin and destination both outside the M50.

All the above issues point to the need to develop alternative road capacity which will allow the existing functions of the M50 to be more evenly distributed throughout the road network. The Development of a Leinster Orbital Route would facilitate a high quality connection between the National Primary Routes, which would greatly improve connections between the different towns in the Leinster Region. It could therefore benefit up to 25% of the existing traffic on the M50, in addition to attracting a notable volume of traffic away from Regional and Local Roads. It is noted, however, that any transfer of traffic from the M50 to the Leinster Orbital Route is expected to result in traffic from parallel local roads transferring onto the M50 to take advantage of the additional roadspace. As such, the actual impact on M50 traffic conditions may be limited.

The future year assessment of traffic flows therefore highlights the need for definite consideration of the Leinster Orbital Route.

The report concluded that a LOR would have an AADT of 50,000 between the M7 and the M4 and just under 20,000 between the M3 and the M1.

Nevertheless, I didn't include the LOR in my wish list either.

Jayuu

veryangryman wrote: »

Im not surprised. Who will really need it? How often these days do you come to a standstill on the M50. Very little bang for buck now that M50 is upgraded

True. The only place that needs improvement would be to extend the 3 lanes of the M1 to Lissenhall given that Newland X is finally being dealt with. At that point the M50 actually serves its original purpose as a Dublin bypass. I would even go as far as saying the we don't even need the Eastern Bypass anymore.

I started a Top 10 list but couldn't get it down to less than 15. I also got confused by some of the criteria (e.g. Do we include the M20 given that its planned even if not started or are we only to exclude schemes that we know are definitely starting such as Newlands X and the like?).

Amtmann

Jayuu wrote: »

I started a Top 10 list but couldn't get it down to less than 15. I also got confused by some of the criteria (e.g. Do we include the M20 given that its planned even if not started or are we only to exclude schemes that we know are definitely starting such as Newlands X and the like?).

Only exclude schemes which we know will start very soon (and of these, there aren't many: M17/M18; Newlands Cross; M11 Arklow-Rathnew are all almost certain to start in 2011). So you can include in your list all other currently-on-the-table schemes, including the M20.

chelseavera

Just ONE ...

TUAM BYPASS PLEASE!!:mad:

Zoney

antoobrien wrote: »

And I'd drop the M7 Widening, it'll only promote more development of the most expensive areas of the country, not what we need if we want the country to become economically competitive again. (not that expect agreement with this)

Actually I think the interurbans do work both ways (captain obvious statement, but anyway) in terms of economic development. As regards the M7's role: Cork, Limerick and Waterford are all more attractive locations in themselves for business if they have faster links to Dublin.

Slower and slower traffic from the Naas Road to Kildare or vice-versa affects *all* of those cities as well as regional towns. It's not a Dublin-centric issue.

As regards the DOOR - well, as much as one doesn't like the aspect of road building of "when will it end", I think such a route may be needed in future (although really I'd prefer the N52 and other secondaries in the area were upgraded to 2+2). However, I think the M50 will do the job for a number of years, even if not without hitches. It's a bit mental to go on these days, but at least you can mostly get where you're going without anything like the days of the gated toll and the grade-separated roundabouts. I think we may need it even a bit before 2020, but if it is planned before then and built soon after, we'll probably manage.

runway16

Jayuu wrote: »

True. The only place that needs improvement would be to extend the 3 lanes of the M1 to Lissenhall given that Newland X is finally being dealt with. At that point the M50 actually serves its original purpose as a Dublin bypass. I would even go as far as saying the we don't even need the Eastern Bypass anymore.

I started a Top 10 list but couldn't get it down to less than 15. I also got confused by some of the criteria (e.g. Do we include the M20 given that its planned even if not started or are we only to exclude schemes that we know are definitely starting such as Newlands X and the like?).

I respectfully disagree. The M50 isnt a Dublin bypass, because it doesnt bypass Dublin! It is very much in Urban territory, and one still has to enter the Dublin traffic system to use it. Blame our planners, but to function as a bypass, it is way too close to the centre, and finds it ultimate use as a commuter route.

Im not saying we need LOOR now, but we will at some point in the future. Granted, the M50 works great now, but then it did just after it was opened too for a couple of very short years! ;-)

runway16

Zoney wrote: »

Actually I think the interurbans do work both ways (captain obvious statement, but anyway) in terms of economic development. As regards the M7's role: Cork, Limerick and Waterford are all more attractive locations in themselves for business if they have faster links to Dublin.

Slower and slower traffic from the Naas Road to Kildare or vice-versa affects *all* of those cities as well as regional towns. It's not a Dublin-centric issue.

Bang on mate. Adding another lane to an existing motorway isnt going to re-inforce any regional imbalance. The Motorway is already there - you are just making it work better. The Motorways and their functioning actually will benefit the regional cities more I think - we cant deny that the economic and Population hub is Dublin, but Limerick, Waterford etc all gain by having ready access for their companies to that large market.

Think also of the ease with which people can now get to the various parts of Ireland - think of the benefits as tourists who previously might have confined themselves to the capital on their long weekend break are encouraged to go beyond the city. This is especially relevant given the scale of flights into Dublin airport, and the difficulties in sustaining many flights at Shannon, Cork etc.

I think in perhaps 5 or 6 years, we will really appreciate the benefits that the motorway network has brought to the whole country, particularly as the inter-regional routes like Cork-Limerick-Galway are completed.

Sponge Bob

Congested 2 lane motorway sections that will require a look/possible widening are:

1. M1 Airport around Swords ....but Metro North and park and ride are supposed to 'solve' that
2. M7 Naas - M9. This , if widened and with the necesssary extra movements added to the M7 / M9 junction together with the stub of the Outer Orbiital northbound should be looked at together.
3. M4 Leixlip to Maynooth. This is rather congested and slow and will likely require the third lane too. Building an outer orbital section M7-M4 would kill it meaning this section will have to predate any outer orbital.
4. M50/M11 around Cherrywood to Bray North.

However slow motorways generally do not kill people like the N20 Buttevant bends and the N17 Milltown-Ballindine section and the N24 from Tipp-Cahir assuredly do. Therefore these putative improvements to existing motorways should be analysed vis a vis new sections.

antoobrien

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Congested 2 lane motorway sections that will require a look/possible widening are:

1. M1 Airport around Swords ....but Metro North and park and ride are supposed to 'solve' that
2. M7 Naas - M9. This , if widened and with the necesssary extra movements added to the M7 / M9 junction together with the stub of the Outer Orbiital northbound should be looked at together.
3. M4 Leixlip to Maynooth. This is rather congested and slow and will likely require the third lane too. Building an outer orbital section M7-M4 would kill it meaning this section will have to predate any outer orbital.
4. M50/M11 around Cherrywood to Bray North.

To solve these problems all that is needed is for the Gardai to enforce all the the traffic laws i.e. the right lane is for overtaking. This is a particularly bad problem on the M4 (not just this section), where people just drive in the right lane with plenty of free space in the left lane.

Bards

antoobrien wrote: »

To solve these problems all that is needed is for the Gardai to enforce all the the traffic laws i.e. the right lane is for overtaking. This is a particularly bad problem on the M4 (not just this section), where people just drive in the right lane with plenty of free space in the left lane.

Driver education needs to be done, IF only the NRA would paint the motorways and DC's with "Driving Lane", "Over-taking Lane" every 2Km's or so and people might eventually get the message

NFD100

1) Driver education - in relation to roads and how to drive on them!
2) Regional roads - to be consistently lined and signed properly - take the control of these roads off the local authorities and give to the NRA.
3) 3 lane M1 as far as Co. Meath boundary/start of CRG scheme

loyatemu

Sponge Bob wrote: »

4. M50/M11 around Cherrywood to Bray North.

whats needed here is 3rd lane and distributor roads from the existing Bray North to Kilmacanogue (probably only on the southbound side though) - this might also allow them to close some of the plethora of LILO junctions and private accesses.

Not a huge project, but as you point out, nobody is dying there, unlike on the N20 or at the N11 gap.

Jayuu

OK then. Here goes. I admit that my list is probably going to be biased towards the southern end of the country because that what I know best. These are in no particular order.

M20 (Northern and Southern sections)
Since these plans are already in place and this is a major strategic route then I think it makes complete sense to go ahead and implement both sections of the route.

N24 (Pallasgreen to Cahir)
N24 (Carrick-on-Suir bypass)
I'd love to see the entire N24 dualled but in the short term these sections should definitely go ahead. I'm going for the Carrick bypass as well because with both these schemes the N24 would at least bypass the biggest towns on the route which would help with traffic flows on this route.

N4 (Carrick-on-Shannon bypass)
Again I'd like to see a lot more work done on the N4 but since we're being selective then this scheme should definitely be implemented as it removes a major bottleneck on the Sligo route.

N25 (New Ross bypass)
N25 (Dungarvan bypass)
Perhaps the traffic volumes on the N25 aren't as high as other areas but by removing these two towns from the route you've pretty much taken all of the major towns on the N25 out of the flow.

M8/N25 (Dunkettle Interchange and N25 Ring Road improvements)
I'm treating this as one scheme because its all to achieve the same goal which is improve traffic flow around Cork city. Dunkettle is a joke really in that its crazy to think that you can drive from Dublin to Cork in around 2 hours and then spend nearly twenty minutes trying to get off the motorway. It should have been upgraded as part of the M8 programme.

N6 (Galway Outer Bypass)
Same reason as Dunkettle/Ring Road schemes above. You zip along to Galway in great time and then lose all the time you gained stuck in traffic in Galway city. Providing a way around the city will improve distribution and flow.

M17 (Tuam to Claremorris)
I'd like to say Tuam to Collooney but technically that more than one scheme so at the very least the M17 should be extended further northwards to improve access for the west of the country to the motorway network.


That makes 10 by my reckoning. Its a tough call to make. There were some others I considered such as the N28, Other N4 schemes, Claregalway as well as some of the secondary road schemes but I think these would be the most important in my book.

Tech3

I reckon the LOOR is a dead duck at this stage and wont be built in our lifetime. Great to see the N17 Tuam-Claremorris on a few 'wish lists' for 2011-2020. It should be built within the next 10 years anyway. Cant say the same for the awful Colooney-Tubbercurry stretch which will take a lot longer to get to the tender stage.

Amtmann

I think the LOR should at least be progressed to the planning approved stage over the next ten years so that construction can start post 2020.

KevR

1. Galway Bypass: Galway's gridlock is stiffling the Western economy in my opinion.
2. M20 North
3. M20 South: Cork, Limerick and Galway need to be properly connected. Galway-Dublin and Galway-Cork are both roughly the same distance but it can take twice as long to drive to Cork as it does Dublin!! Our 2nd, 3rd and 4th cities need to be better connected for economic reasons. Also, the N20 is dangerous.
4. M4: widening from Lucan to Maynooth: heavily trafficked and often slow moving; will only get worse.
5. Cork SRR: improvements
6. Claregalway Inner Relief Road: M17/18 will improve the Claregalway situation somewhat but an inner relief road will still be needed.
7. N17: improvements Tuam-Claremorris mainly because it's a death trap.
8. Cork NRR
9. M7: widening to the M9 diverge.
10. M1: widening to possibly J6.

Apart from the Galway Bypass and the M20 schemes, there is no real order to my wishlist.

spacetweek

M1 Widening Drinan-Balbriggan
N4 Carrick-on-shannon bypass
N6 Galway Outer Bypass
M20 North & Adare Bypass (packaged together)
M20 South & Cork North Ring (packaged together)
N24 Pallasgreen-Bansha
N25 Dunkettle
N25 South Ring Interchanges
N25 New Ross Bypass
N28 Ringaskiddy


Note that I didn't include N4 Mullingar-Longford. Don't agree that traffic volumes are high and passing opportunities limited here - have driven many, many times over the years with no problems. Road is wide and straight. The silly Edgeworthstown bypass, with its roundabouts, actually causes more problems than it solves!

Instead I included the essential Carrick on Shannon bypass. The terrain and town layout and traffic levels here are such that this bypass is urgently needed. The town is long and winding and the whole N4 through the town is used to access developments. The place badly needs to be decongested of its gridlock. On journeys from Dublin to Sligo I am always caught here, never anywhere else.

Although I think the N21 and N22 need to be dualled into Kerry, I didn't list these either, as these are 'desirable' schemes rather than essential in the short term. There have been a number of improvements completed or soon to be underway *within* Kerry - Tralee (2011), Castleisland (2010), Tralee-Castleisland (few years ago), south to Farranfore. These are sufficient for the next few years.

I didn't list the M11 Enniscorthy because although it's being prioritised, this seems to be largely because it's the E01 euroroute and not because there's some massive pressing need.

LOOR and Dublin Eastern Bypass - needed, but not until after 2020.

Leonard Hofstadter

1. Newlands Cross. Once this is gone it is non-stop from the Red Cow to the Jack Lynch tunnel and also will speed up access into/out of Dublin, which is important since it is the capital.
2. M6 Galway city bypass. Enormously important for the West of Ireland and balanced regional development, which benefits ALL of the country.
3. M20 Northern Section.
4. M20 Southern Section. It is obviously essential that the 2nd and 3rd biggest cities this side of the border are connected by high quality road.
5. Cork Sarsfield Road and Bandon road flyovers. Again Cork is the 2nd biggest city and waiting 10 minutes to get through both roundabouts in peak hours is not acceptable. Very wasteful of fuel too so it would be good for the planet as well.
6. Slane bypass(safety).
7. N17 Tuam to Claremorris, Tuam is hellish to get through.
8. N24 Pallasgreen to Cahir(you've got to start somewhere on this and that is the longest section!)
9. N28 Ringaskiddy. Cork has a ferry and port connection but it is not being used to the best of its potential because the current road while of good standard is desperately under capacity.
10. I was tempted to throw in the Northern Ring Road but in fairness Cork does not suffer the chronic traffic congestion that Dublin and Galway do, even during peak traffic hours, I reckon that installing the flyovers will make enough of a difference. I have chosen the N/M11 Arklow to Rathnew because it is not a good idea to have lots of motorway and then a cumberland gap like that, so from a safety point of view I think this needs doing.

Sponge Bob

captainspeed wrote: »

7. N17 Tuam to Claremorris, Tuam is hellish to get through.

The Tuam Bypass is part of the Tuam-Gort scheme and may even be finished and open within 2 years ( the rest of it won't)