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Thou Shalt Respect the Haka...or else...
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17-09-2010 10:42am#1
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a few things annoy me about this,
1. no body ever gives out about fiji,samoa or tonga doing their haka because we always beat them.
2.they started doing it while on tour in 1884 approx 111 years before rugby went professional so why the whinging now.
3.the reason ireland only gets one anthem these days i believe is because of the mixed catholic and protestant unity (because of our northern irish players/fans).they have taken religion out of it. ideally we should have three anthems irelands call/amhran na bhfiann /god save the queen if you want to be that way inclined.
4.the reason the protocol was introduced was avoid incidents like this
5.if people are upset with protocol then why give out when martin johnson stood two yards away from the red carpet for our president(wow lets all get offended,she had to walk on grass).protocol shows how to respect /honour /behave in certain times.whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
6.why do teams have to come up with "challenges to the haka" ,the best thing to do is get your scrum right,get the lineout calls right(lions first test in nz 2005,fancy haka response-no one knew lineout calls) etc dont spend time midweek coming up with a response.as far as im concerned its the other nations who inflame it and get precious about it when the same accusation is levelled at the nz'ers.richard cockerill,willie john mc bride,france at the last world cup-they all encroached on new zealand not the other way around.
7.the all blacks do the haka,tiger woods wears red on the last day of a tournament,players courtesy to the royal box in wimbledon,dublin march to hill 16 .........let them do their bloody dance(they always have),earn their respect by stuffing them on the field.imagine the feeling of a touring team coming over,acting like billy big time,number 1 in the world and they do their big aggresive dance.....just give them a hiding and send them home with a defeat ,thats how you "respond".
8.one last thing- i do not know how anyone as a tv /stadium watching fan cannot enjoy the spectacle,even my grandad,mam etc run in to see them do it when its on telly and then dont watch the match!
it annoys everyone because they are the best team in the world,if they were italy this conversation wouldnt even be happening0 -
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No, it's that they're not half as precious about it as the Kiwis are. When it comes to the haka they are world champion whingers. You may be too young to remember the whinging they started when ireland under Willie Anderson linked arms went forward and said "we're not afraid of you" thus negating any advantage the kiwis would get from their dance and giving the Irish team a lift (for the start of the game at least). The Kiwis whinged so much that they threatened never to play Ireland at international level again if we dared challenge their haka. That's when I remember any ill feeling in Ireland towards the haka starting. You can view it here and see how "disrespectful" it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weUHwCjeD7shandsomecake wrote: »a few things annoy me about this,
1. no body ever gives out about fiji,samoa or tonga doing their haka because we always beat them.
See above.handsomecake wrote: »2.they started doing it while on tour in 1884 approx 111 years before rugby went professional so why the whinging now.
Nothing to do with the haka which is something the Kiwis get to do as well as their anthem.handsomecake wrote: »3.the reason ireland only gets one anthem these days i believe is because of the mixed catholic and protestant unity (because of our northern irish players/fans).they have taken religion out of it. ideally we should have three anthems irelands call/amhran na bhfiann /god save the queen if you want to be that way inclined.
Eh, that's a different code? I can't remember anything like that happening in Union. But given that the haka was met by another haka I suspect that the response was more "traditional" than the Kiwis expected.handsomecake wrote: »4.the reason the protocol was introduced was avoid incidents like this
There is a difference between showing respect to the head of state and deliberately forcing one team to gain an advantage before the game has started.handsomecake wrote: »5.if people are upset with protocol then why give out when martin johnson stood two yards away from the red carpet for our president(wow lets all get offended,she had to walk on grass).protocol shows how to respect /honour /behave in certain times.whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
You may also be too young to remember Wales playing the Kiwis in 1990 I think. the Welsh left the Kiwis doing the haka at the halfway line and went back to their own goal line. Shelford moved the haka down to surround the Welsh and restart the haka which was probably against the protocol that you so love to quote, but that was ok because the kiwis won by a huge margin. The reason teams challenge the haka is because it is unfair to cause one team to stay absolutely still while giving the kiwis an unfair advantage. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. i agree with you about playing the game though.handsomecake wrote: »6.why do teams have to come up with "challenges to the haka" ,the best thing to do is get your scrum right,get the lineout calls right(lions first test in nz 2005,fancy haka response-no one knew lineout calls) etc dont spend time midweek coming up with a response.as far as im concerned its the other nations who inflame it and get precious about it when the same accusation is levelled at the nz'ers.richard cockerill,willie john mc bride,france at the last world cup-they all encroached on new zealand not the other way around.
Like I said above the IRB deliberately favouring one team over all others, isn't something I like to see for reasons outlined above. I do find it ironic that the haka has it's origins historically in a story of one warrior hiding in a pit from another and his wife performing this dance to send the other warrior away and then it gets magically transformed into an uber macho wardance. But I do agree with you that beating them is the best answer, even though they shouldn't be allowed to be granted a psychological advantage denied to tother teams by the IRB.handsomecake wrote: »7.the all blacks do the haka,tiger woods wears red on the last day of a tournament,players courtesy to the royal box in wimbledon,dublin march to hill 16 .........let them do their bloody dance(they always have),earn their respect by stuffing them on the field.imagine the feeling of a touring team coming over,acting like billy big time,number 1 in the world and they do their big aggresive dance.....just give them a hiding and send them home with a defeat ,thats how you "respond".
Best team in the world? Really? or are you talking about their usual peaking one year before the World Cup thing?handsomecake wrote: »it annoys everyone because they are the best team in the world,if they were italy this conversation wouldnt even be happening0 -
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Sure, NZ might have been doing the Haka for 100 years or more, but for the vast majority of it it probaly looked like this:
They've sold it to Adidas, it's a commercial and promotional thing now.0 -
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and it looks great.much more polished,like the better balls,pitches,jerseys,stadia etc that we have now.everything is better nowSure, NZ might have been doing the Haka for 100 years or more, but for the vast majority of it it probaly looked like this:
They've sold it to Adidas, it's a commercial and promotional thing now.0 -
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handsomecake wrote: »8.one last thing- i do not know how anyone as a tv /stadium watching fan cannot enjoy the spectacle,even my grandad,mam etc run in to see them do it when its on telly and then dont watch the match!
there is a whole different reason why they watch the haka and not the match
but they should watch the match too ;) 0 -
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Except in world cupshandsomecake wrote: »yep,best team in the world without a doubt.always have been.winning records against every other team in the universe.
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Rafel Nadal may have something tosay about Federer being the best tennis player in the world seeing as he's just won championships on every surface. Something Rod Laver was the only other person to do. Federer came so close to doing the same last year, he was one point away but didn't do it. Also nadal has a better head to head record against Federer than anyone else. I think it's about 75% - 25% in Nadals favour.handsomecake wrote: »roger federer is the best tennis player in the world but got knocked out of the us open.man utd threw away a 2 goal lead to draw 3-3 with everton in the last minute last week.tony mccoy didnt win the grand national till last year.usa got beaten in basketball in the olympics.kilkenny were beaten by tipp last week.upsets happen...thats what sport is all about.
As for your upsets, well they're called upsets because they go against the natural order of things. The Kiwis have a pattern of habitually underperforming in world cups - the first one excepted. So by any account an upset might be them actually winning one. :cool:
Don't knock Uruguay, they could have got to the final this year and I'd have bet on them against Spain. Thankfully I am way too young to remember those other two world cups they won. I think I'll leave that to old farts like you. :Phandsomecake wrote: »seen as we now only quantify a teams quality in world cups won :
uruguay are obviously better then spain at football by your reckoning because( you might be too young to remember;)) they won in 1930 and 1950 and spain have only won once.
We won't and we did (but it was still bloody good though).handsomecake wrote: »and everyone in this forum will be glad to know that the grand slam ireland won 2 seasons ago counts for nothing and if ireland dont win the world cup we obviously peaked in spring 2009.
Anyway, I'm off to bed, have an early start for work in the morning.
Goodnight.0 -
Like Handsome Cake said the RTE programme tonight about the All Blacks covered the Haka and what opposition players thought of it - and the only whinger was Gavin Hastings of Scotland! And we all know that Scotland couldn't beat the skin off a rice pudding! You have to be 6ft under not to find the Haka inspiring and the spectacle would be the poorer without it!
The Haka(s) as performed by two of the greatest teams in World rugby at Thomond Park in 2008 - and the silence of the crowd in respect for the greatest rugby playing nation on earth says enough for me and the rest of you need to get over it. Got your own version of the Haka like dropping your shorts, bring it on.
Roll on the Autumn 2010 tour and a clean sweep of the Northern Hemisphere by the All Blacks.
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The Haka is here to stay. Until test teams object to it anyway (which they won't). Every time New Zealand are due in town, this debate always rears its head.
I don't understand why folks keep moaning about it. I'd say the majority of spectators and viewers love the Haka.
It doesn't give anyone the advantage in my opinion. The Sivi Tau is a much darker challenge yet Tonga struggle to win. The Haka hasn't given the New Zealand team the advantage in the RWCs either.
I've faced numerous Haka when playing rugby league against ex-pat Kiwi sides in Australia. We hockeyed them every time (not without a bruise or two though). Just eyeball your opposite number. If you've any confidence in your ability, you'll follow that up with outplaying the fella or at least letting him know he marked you for the game.
As I said before, I'd be more concentrated on how to beat the side than fussing about a Haka which lasts less than two minutes before kick-off.
I don't care for the throat-slitting gesture in the 'new tredushunal' Kapo o Pongo. It isn't traditional as its fairly new and this Haka itself is just too drawn out.
I was at Lansdowne road in '89 when Willie Anderson took the team right up to Buck Shelford & co. It was excellent.
Was at Stadium Australia in '99 when there were roughly 60,000 Kiwi fans doing it alongside the team. It was great fun. Ditto in the SFS the year before (what a game that was).
Have even had the Haka performed before myself and some fellow travellers en route to the RWC99 in HK airport (was living in Australia at the time). Airport security came rushing over because the echoes in the new terminal made it sound like a soccer-style riot was about to kick off.
Relax about the Haka. I'll be working in the media centre during the games this November and on match day I tend to miss most of the first half except for whats on screen. I'll still nip in to the tunnel to watch the Haka before kick-off though in the game against NZ and I'm no All Blacks supporter.
You're a Munster-following-Kiwi in the Chagos?Judgement Day wrote: »Roll on the Autumn 2010 tour and a clean sweep of the Northern Hemisphere by the All Blacks.
Interesting combo.0 -
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It doesn't much matter what Northern hemisphere teams do right now, they might as well stay at home and wash their hair. There was a window of opportunity to put one over on the All Blacks in 2008 and that window is now firmly closed again. As for the Haka, nearly every player I've ever heard comment on it have said that it pumps up the opposing team too, but then again unless you have faced it yourself that it is a hard one to call.
The window which Joe Rokocoko so cruely slammed shut - but I just about forgive him. 0 -
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Sounds like the IRB are over thinking this alright. Fair enough, they want to create a dedicated time between the anthems and kickoff for some cultural shenanigans (to prevent the welsh from being all welsh about it). All they need to dictate is thatDon't move, don't react and dont dare move forward, or else you'll get fined!!
A: The kickoff shall take place no later than x minutes after the anthems have been completed.
B: Both teams shall stay on their 'own' side of the half way line during this time. The full team (numbers 1-23) are allowed on the field of play during this time. Teams can do whatever they like during this time provided:
C: Anybody acting the maggot (violence, offensive gestures or language - in any language that the ref understands) shall be red carded (ie. banned from the pitch+playing enclosure) and the game will begin with 30 players as usual.
If the AB's or anybody else wants space to 'perform', they can perform on their ten (or in their goal area if they like). If the teams want to stand an inch away from one another, great - it all adds to the spectacle, provided they stay to their own sides of the halfway line.0 -
Stupid thing to say.
Every team is beatable by somebody and are only as good as the last game they've played.
Sport is based upon competition as you will no doubt know. Anyone who takes the field with the assumption of getting beaten, should not be selected.
Or the last 15.
Record setting All Blacks prepare for Slam attempt
http://www.allblacks.com/news/14269/Record-setting-All-Blacks-prepare-for-Slam-attempt
James Mortimer - (15/09/2010)
As the dust settles on the 2010 Investec Tri Nations, the All Blacks, who broke numerous records during their unbeaten campaign, now turn their attention to Europe, where two unprecedented milestones could be achieved.
Beating the Wallabies 23-22 in Sydney saw the All Blacks become the first team to win all six matches (the last team to clean sweep was the All Blacks side of 2003) since the tournament has been expanded.
They also won their tenth straight test against the Australians, breaking the famous record set 63 years ago.
It was also their 15th consecutive victory, meaning that they are two wins shy of the New Zealand record, and three wins short of the all-time test winning record set by rugby minnow's Lithuania.
With nine victories in 2010, and Richie McCaw surpassing Sean Fitzpatrick with 52 tests as captain (with 46 wins and 6 losses), this season has been one where it would be difficult to pinpoint any areas where the All Blacks have not ticked all the boxes.
Henry said the records and achievements had been discussed.
"They do [mean a lot]. At the end of the day it's nice to tick those boxes as you go, but you have to concentrate on playing the game and those things will look after themselves," Henry said.
"If you think we have to win 10 straight or 19 in a row, if you concentrate on those things, it's not going to happen. If you are playing the game correctly, hopefully it might happen."
The All Blacks also have secured the International Rugby Board's number one ranking, sitting on 94.77 ranking points.
There is now an added carrot, to become the first team in the professional era to go through a calendar year unbeaten.
The last All Blacks team to go unbeaten was the 1989 side who won all seven of their tests.
In 1997 the team was unbeaten, winning 11 tests, but they drew 26-all against England in their final match at Twickenham. In 2005 and 2006, Graham Henry's teams lost the solitary match to prevent a perfect year.
The All Blacks are already planning for their five test tour of Hong Kong and Europe, with matches against the Wallabies before a Grand Slam tour facing England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales on consecutive weeks.
While there are likely to be few major surprises, Henry admitted that the 30 man squad announced on October 17 would mean that there would be some good players left at home.
"All round there will be some very good players who miss out. I've enjoyed the ITM Cup, there's been some very good rugby of a high standard and there are a lot of players putting their hands up who are on the fringe of this team," Henry said.
The All Blacks coach said that the bulk of the squad had been picked, but some selections would depend on how recuperating players came back - with Sitiveni Sivivatu, Andrew Hore, Jason Eaton, Isaia Toeava and Richard Kahui all racing against the clock to return to action via the ITM Cup.
Most of the current Tri Nations squad were on forced rest, but most would play at least one provincial game before touring, while some fringe players would return to their ITM Cup teams within the next week or two.
The All Blacks will attempt to record their fourth touring Grand Slam, joining the South Africans who have also notched four such sweeps. However New Zealand is the only country to achieve one in the professional era, with the Springboks attempting one in 2004, and the Wallabies last year.
The South Africans will also play all four home unions this year.
Successful Grand Slams
South Africa: 1912–13, 1931–32, 1951–52, 1960–61
New Zealand: 1978, 2005, 2008
Australia: 19840 -
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I haven't played rugby for more years than I care to remember but I know if I was playing against the All Blacks I would want to stand and face down the Haka. Tying up my bootlaces or farting around at the other end pitch sounds absolutely pathetic. Instead of worrying about the Haka we should be calling for the scrapping of "Ireland's Call" it's far more offensive. 0
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhyxfmoSxOA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emJyEa4z2Ec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8hzfrTPo6E
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