"Train like an athlete not a Body-Builder"

johnn

I've seen this phrase used a lot recently but it is usually never explained or put into context. I read an article yesterday where a very in shape guy claimed he doesn't have to train more than 3 times a week for his physique because he "trains like an athlete and with intensity".

What is meant by this expression?

brendansmith

johnn wrote: »

I've seen this phrase used a lot recently but it is usually never explained or put into context. I read an article yesterday where a very in shape guy claimed he doesn't have to train more than 3 times a week for his physique because he "trains like an athlete and with intensity".

What is meant by this expression?

It means go hard or go home.

Instead of these lads who spend all day in the gym doing 3 lifts then gibble gabbling with their mates while arranging and rearranging their nutsack through their pants, get stuck in and bring the pain........intensly.

heno86

i would perceive it to mean bodybuilders would train using a lot of isolation exercise to bring particular bodypart's out and to balance their physique but this is after building a lot of mass, a lot of guys then try to emulate a bodybuilder's pre contest program wasting a lot of time training ridiculous exercises and too much volume(especially if following a steroid using bodybuilder) athletes tend to focus more on heavy compound exercises which are the best way of building and dont use too much volume as they have a lot of other components to train so they tend to get in and out of the gym which is also the best way of building,my opinion anyway

Transform

agreed on both - there is lots that has been learned from bodybuilding but when an individual follows a program that is based around the small detail stuff and not the big detail exercises (compound movements) then its unlikely he/she will get into the shape they want.

Plus the whole bodybuilding approach (split body part training, training programs as used by the pros (largely bullsh1t), bulking/cutting, etc) can at times lean towards overuse injuries (excessive chest and biceps work being the most common) and a nutritional angle that can seem more grounded in supplements rather than real food e.g. look at the amount of adverts in magazines like Flex etc and you would think all the bodybuilders ate was a rake of supplements and no mention of the steroids.

Again lots of great lessons have been learned from bodybuilding but at times many people magnify the small stuff just because it suits them and leave out the important stuff when it comes to the training and diet side of things. Plus the vast majority of people from aesthetics point of view want to look like an athlete (who yes at times may use a bodybuilding type program but usually for a limited time) and not like a bodybuilder.

Orando Broom

What type of exercises are best for the athlete training method?

I'm 6'4" 16st 4lbs. I'd be pretty fit, treadmil 10km in 46min-ish, swim continuosusly 1000m, I'd bench up to 70kg ish on the smith. I'd be a regualr gym user for the last five years. During that time my routine has been disrupted by two shoulder dislocations.


I've plateaued big time recently. I'd like to lose a good bit round the midriff, it could be best described as being cosy.

Any help or tips would eb greatly appreciated.

Brian?

Orando Broom wrote: »

What type of exercises are best for the athlete training method?

The same ones the BBers should be doing. Squats, deadlifts, bench, row, military press, cleans, pullups etc.

Orando Broom wrote: »

I'm 6'4" 16st 4lbs. I'd be pretty fit, treadmil 10km in 46min-ish, swim continuosusly 1000m, I'd bench up to 70kg ish on the smith. I'd be a regualr gym user for the last five years. During that time my routine has been disrupted by two shoulder dislocations.


I've plateaued big time recently. I'd like to lose a good bit round the midriff, it could be best described as being cosy.

Any help or tips would eb greatly appreciated.

The first bit of advice would be to never use a smith machine again, especially if you have shoulder problems. If you don't know already, learn to squat, dealift and bench press properly.

Have a look at starting strength, its simple but it works.

Orando Broom

briankeating wrote: »

The same ones the BBers should be doing. Squats, deadlifts, bench, row, military press, cleans, pullups etc.




The first bit of advice would be to never use a smith machine again, especially if you have shoulder problems. If you don't know already, learn to squat, dealift and bench press properly.

Have a look at starting strength, its simple but it works.

Is bench pressing without the smith not hazardous when you don't have a spotter?

The shoulder dislocated to the front so it's impossible to dislocate it in the bench position. An exercise like the fly would do the trick, mind.

Also, starting strenght I am not following you? Maybe I took expectionally strong stupid pills this morning.

EileenG

Starting strength is a program of exercises http://startingstrength.com/

If you don't have a spotter, use the power rack for bench press, or do dumbbell press.

I have twice put out my back on Smith machines. I'd love to see them all burned.

Brian?

Orando Broom wrote: »

Is bench pressing without the smith not hazardous when you don't have a spotter?

Only when working near your max, in which case just ask a gym chump or other member to give you a spot. As with every excercise its best to start light and learn the technique first. If you are really worried use DB's

Orando Broom wrote: »

The shoulder dislocated to the front so it's impossible to dislocate it in the bench position. An exercise like the fly would do the trick, mind.

Smith benching is bad for your general shoulder health I think. It's also generally less efficent than barbell benching as it takes away the stabilisation element needed for BB benching.

Orando Broom wrote: »

Also, starting strenght I am not following you? Maybe I took expectionally strong stupid pills this morning.

My fault, should have been clearer.
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ

Brian?

EileenG wrote: »

Starting strength is a program of exercises http://startingstrength.com/

If you don't have a spotter, use the power rack for bench press, or do dumbbell press.

I have twice put out my back on Smith machines. I'd love to see them all burned.

Got in before me!

Smith machines should be melted down and turned into oly bars.

FTA69

Transform wrote: »

Plus the whole bodybuilding approach (split body part training,.

5/3/1 is a split program based around the compounds. What's your opinion of that if you don't mind me asking?

d'Oracle

Semantics....

FTA When you say "split" what do you mean?

EileenG

d'Oracle wrote: »

Semantics....

FTA When you say "split" what do you mean?

Split usually means splitting bodyparts, so you might do legs one day, back and bis another, and chest and tris on a different day.

podge57

FTA69 wrote: »

5/3/1 is a split program based around the compounds. What's your opinion of that if you don't mind me asking?

I think what he meant is that athletes train movements, not body parts

brianthebard

d'Oracle wrote: »

Semantics....

FTA When you say "split" what do you mean?

It might be semantics, but the whole thread is based on semantics so why not. For instance depending on who's saying what the bench can be considered functional or non-functional, athletic or non-athletic, compound or isolation, etc, etc. People like the op quoted who decides training intensely for three times a week is the definition of athletic are by my definition retarded. Proper athletes train a hell of a lot more than that. They also divide their training into different sections, muscle groups, movements, etc, depending on their goals.

d'Oracle

EileenG wrote: »

Split usually means splitting bodyparts, so you might do legs one day, back and bis another, and chest and tris on a different day.

I know this, but I was asking FTA what he meant.

Transform

podge57 wrote: »

I think what he meant is that athletes train movements, not body parts

exactly

Barry.Oglesby

podge57 wrote: »

I think what he meant is that athletes train movements, not body parts

This is the trouble with definitions and saying things definitively. There are a number of reasons why an athlete might train a body part. Next time you see a guy doing a single leg deadlift tell him to stop "isolating" his hamstrings! Yes compounds should be the staple diet but there is a lot more to consider. I for one haven't conventionally benched, squatted or deadlifted in over a year bar testing. So by some people's definitions I am not an athlete because my training doesn't involve those exercises.

Proper athletes train a hell of a lot more than that.

While we're talking semantics why not tell me what a "proper athlete" is? I know plenty of part time athletes who train once per week. There are powerlifters on here right? Well one of the strongest men in the world is Chuck Vogelpohl and he doesn't train 3 times per week. I coach athletes who train twice per week due to work and family commitments.

podge57

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

This is the trouble with definitions and saying things definitively. There are a number of reasons why an athlete might train a body part. Next time you see a guy doing a single leg deadlift tell him to stop "isolating" his hamstrings! Yes compounds should be the staple diet but there is a lot more to consider. I for one haven't conventionally benched, squatted or deadlifted in over a year bar testing. So by some people's definitions I am not an athlete because my training doesn't involve those exercises.

What I meant was that most athletes don't organise their training by body parts - ie: back/bi day etc.

Also, when I said athletes train "movements", I didn't just mean that they squat/bench/deadlift - box squats, trap bar deads or whatever you do are still basically the same movements

Transform

agreed and how i see it is that -

When someone goes to many many gyms to train and they see others around them or even a trainer giving out or doing a chest/triceps, back/biceps, legs etc type program then they might follow along as that is what they are told to do or see around them. Plus many ditch the leg day and then focus on the upper body 'show' muscles more thus decreasing their chances of actually making long term progress and possibly increasing chances of overuse injuries.

All i know is what i teach and that is a mixture of -

1. Foam rolling, mobility, stretching, activation drills - all done to decrease chances of injuries, isolating specific areas to help improve/integrate into compound exercises e.g. shoulder stability work, glute work, and improve the quality of the muscles so people do not feel like a stiff board.

2. Use full body programs for the most part with some isolation work e.g. split squats, oly lifts, GHR, deadlifts etc to improve overall strength

3. Use metcons,[/B] metabolic conditioning sessions, intervals (insert label here) to increase overall conditioning

4. Aerobic/anaerobic work - can be done using the above or maybe a 30mins straight cardio session on a light recovery day done with lots of stuff from point 1.

Now there are possibly a few bodybuilders doing all/mixture of the above and fair play to them if they are doing all/mixture of that. I would like to think that the smart trainee (athlete or not) would take the above as a basis for their training next time they step into the gym and NOT 'well its monday so lets bench again and do 4 different chest exercises, slam another protein drink and next week i will start cutting' or the female version '15mins abs and 30-40mins cardio/read the magazine and special K diet from today' as thats what you will see all the time in gyms everywhere I have trained or woked worldwide

For me I do not use or work in a normal commercial gym so when (for example) my female clients see lots of women pulling nice heavy deadlifts, hitting the deck with rep after rep of burpees, throwing a kettlebell around, doing x-band walks, foam rolling as they pull funny faces, stretching and eating real food not excessive use of supplements called 'TESTO BOOST AND JACKKKKED!!' they consider this the norm and i know its the norm in other well coached facilities and hope it becomes the norm everywhere people train asap.

Money Shot

A general point, and definitely not aimed at the above post, but assuming we're talking about the average gym goer - does nobody play actual sports to keep fit anymore ?

Don't see any of the internet experts on here ever recommending cycling, tennis, football, swimming, basketball, boxing, etc. it's usually starting strenght, compounds and intervals for cardio (if you have to)

A lot of people, especially women, just don't want to be in a gym deadlifting or bench pressing. It's just not something they will enjoy or keep doing - the social side of sports can keep people interested and in good shape. Some people are more interested in the overall health benefits and social side of keeping fit rather than the aesthetics of 'being ripped' or 'huge', which dominates this forum.

Training implies preparing your body for sport. Most people don't train for a sport as such, they just train. One of the fittest people I know never goes to the gym - he plays tennis once a week, five a side once a week, swims once a week, cycles to work five days a week, does a few push ups/sit ups when the mood takes him, goes for the odd run when the mood takes him.

Can't remember what my point was - oh yeah, this is a fitness forum, not a gym forum.

Bandara

Money Shot wrote: »

Can't remember what my point was - oh yeah, this is a fitness forum, not a gym forum.

I'd suggest that anyone who takes the time to log onto the internet look up a fitness forum and read and interact on topics on it is far more involved in 'fitness' than your normal person, and as a result is seekign to debate and discuss issues surroundign physical excerise that go way beyond the basic stuff that 'most' people on this forum will have detailed knowledge of anyway.

The forum is a way to expand on your knowledge, its not a beginning point for those who want to learn how to do a hamstring stretch before they got for a jog, if they want to learn a succession of stretches and which ones you can do if your overcoming a back injury then this place is invaluable.

To use another example you don't go to the Golf forum to learn how to swing a club. Its expected that you have done that before you went specifically seeking help with your golf game.

Also I've seen a lot of people post questions here that were very very basic and people looking for specific diet advice etc, on every occassion they recieved very knowledgable information from people like transform, Will etc, these are qualified professional who are paid for such information in their daily lives, they dispense it here freely and without looking down on anyone.

I think your comments such as 'internet experts' etc are quite out of order, sniping, and unjustified. I have suffered really terribly with an injury for over 7 months now, Transform suggested a Physio to me and after only 5 weeks I'm due to start back training again in a fortnight, without this forum I would still be wasting my time and money with physios not up to standard.

Just my 2 cents.
HT

g'em

Money Shot wrote: »

A lot of people, especially women, just don't want to be in a gym deadlifting

I just died a little inside

brianthebard

Money Shot wrote: »

A general point, and definitely not aimed at the above post, but assuming we're talking about the average gym goer - does nobody play actual sports to keep fit anymore ?

Don't see any of the internet experts on here ever recommending cycling, tennis, football, swimming, basketball, boxing, etc. it's usually starting strenght, compounds and intervals for cardio (if you have to)

A lot of people, especially women, just don't want to be in a gym deadlifting or bench pressing. It's just not something they will enjoy or keep doing - the social side of sports can keep people interested and in good shape. Some people are more interested in the overall health benefits and social side of keeping fit rather than the aesthetics of 'being ripped' or 'huge', which dominates this forum.

I don't think you know much about the health and social elements of lifting to keep fit, or are just ignoring them to bolster your point. Either way football or tennis are not going to hack it when it comes to preserving muscle mass or helping to stave off osteoporosis in the same way that heavy weight lifting does.

As for why so many people on this forum recommend strenght training rather than traditional sports, I would suggest that its because many of us either didn't like the traditional sports, stopped doing them, or was looking for something new that they hadn't been exposed to as a child. Or as often is the case they are already doing traditional sports but want something else to actually help them improve, keep fit, get strong, get better at their original sport, help lose weight cause their sport isn't doing this, etc, etc, etc. There's a lot more going on than you account for tbh.

EileenG

Money Shot wrote: »

A lot of people, especially women, just don't want to be in a gym deadlifting or bench pressing.

Don't come to my gym, or I'll kick your ass.

SpookyBastard

Money Shot wrote: »

A lot of people, especially women, just don't want to be in a gym deadlifting or bench pressing. It's just not something they will enjoy or keep doing - the social side of sports can keep people interested and in good shape.

Maybe I read this wrong and am unnecessarily ticked off but are you suggesting that women ('especially' don't you know) won't enjoy non-social activities? Did you actually just go down the 'all women are only into social, loving caring stuff' road...

Heck maybe we can combine weight lifting with shopping and shoes... lots of shoes!?! :eek:

And that's aside from the assertion that the gym is an inherently anti-social place. Heck, I wish I trained in the same gym as a few of the folks here but my gym is plenty social thanks

gavtron

g'em wrote: »

I just died a little inside

aw, poor G'em...i'm trying to teach my gf how, if that's any consolation?

g'em

gavtron wrote: »

aw, poor G'em...i'm trying to teach my gf how, if that's any consolation?

It us, it really is \o/

G86

g'em wrote: »

I just died a little inside

You're not the only one..

Site ban.... pleease!!!!:eek:

G86

Money Shot wrote: »

A lot of people, especially women, just don't want to be in a gym deadlifting or bench pressing. It's just not something they will enjoy or keep doing.

This statement riles me, greatly.:mad:

d10carter

girls shouldn't do weight lifting they should stick to sports like hockey.

EileenG

d10carter wrote: »

girls shouldn't do weight lifting they should stick to sports like hockey.

Because we'll get those big bulgy manly muscles, right??? And our boobs will shrink, and we'll grow hair on our chest?

d10carter

yeah exactly altho id doubt you would get hair on your chest but i like my birds to be feminine not some bulgy freak.

EileenG

I'm speechless!!!

Jarren

d10carter wrote: »

yeah exactly altho id doubt you would get hair on your chest but i like my birds to be feminine not some bulgy freak.

feminine enough?

SpookyBastard

COH wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by d10carter
yeah exactly altho id doubt you would get hair on your chest but i like my birds to be feminine not some bulgy freak

Wow... you're an idiot

I'm assuming he's being sarcastic/humorous :cool:

grimloch

SpookyBastard wrote: »

I'm assuming he's being sarcastic/humorous :cool:

The guy had a large chunk of After Hours furiously mashing their keyboards with rage the other week.

He's taking the piss, everyone calm down.

d10carter

hey guys seriously we can all have opinions right? i just think girls should stick to sports like hockey and tennis, look at all the babes who play these sports!!!

Inspector Coptoor

yeah, the Williams brothers are awesomely hott................

g'em

d10carter wrote: »

hey guys seriously we can all have opinions right? i just think girls should stick to sports like hockey and tennis, look at all the babes who play these sports!!!

As important as I'm sure it is for all the 'babes' out there for you to approve of their sport you can't dictate what you think a women should do to make her hot. Sleaze is against the Charter, I suggest you leave this thread and move your trolling elsewhere.

d10carter

Ok i will not post in this thread again however to prove my point:

http://http://www.sexygirls.louisdizon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/anna-kournikova-in-white-bikini.jpg
vs

http://http://www.ttfatloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/a-women-bodybuilder-trainwreck-16.jpg

One lifts weights the other plays tennis, decide which is which haha

Hanley

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

yeah, the Williams brothers are awesomely hott................

Almost as good looking as the Jonas sisters.

BobbyOLeary

Money Shot wrote: »

A lot of people, especially women, just don't want to be in a gym deadlifting or bench pressing.

To be honest this is usually true. In my experience you're fighting a very tough battle to get a woman to go to the gym and lift weights. And by lifting weights I mean heavy sets of 5, not 20 reps of pink dumbbell number 2. We (as in the fitness forum 'we') all know that women lifting weights is perfectly normal and is one the best things for anyone (men AND women) to do in their spare time. The majority of women think that lifting weights is for huge man beasts. Thus they don't want to do it.

All that being said, any woman who I've introduced to weight lifting has loved it. Absolutely raved about it.

So to sum up, the statement by Money Shot is pretty accurate. Most women (in my experience anyway) don't want to be in the gym lifting weights. Not because they are too girly but because they've been raised to believe they'll grow a set of guns to rival Arnie.

g'em

d10carter banned for a week.

Magic Eight Ball

Money Shot wrote: »

A lot of people, especially women, just don't want to be in a gym deadlifting...

But everytime a woman deadlifts an angel gets it's wings.

Barry.Oglesby

Money Shot wrote: »

A general point, and definitely not aimed at the above post, but assuming we're talking about the average gym goer - does nobody play actual sports to keep fit anymore ?

Don't see any of the internet experts on here ever recommending cycling, tennis, football, swimming, basketball, boxing, etc. it's usually starting strenght, compounds and intervals for cardio (if you have to)

A lot of people, especially women, just don't want to be in a gym deadlifting or bench pressing. It's just not something they will enjoy or keep doing - the social side of sports can keep people interested and in good shape. Some people are more interested in the overall health benefits and social side of keeping fit rather than the aesthetics of 'being ripped' or 'huge', which dominates this forum.

Training implies preparing your body for sport. Most people don't train for a sport as such, they just train. One of the fittest people I know never goes to the gym - he plays tennis once a week, five a side once a week, swims once a week, cycles to work five days a week, does a few push ups/sit ups when the mood takes him, goes for the odd run when the mood takes him.

Can't remember what my point was - oh yeah, this is a fitness forum, not a gym forum.

I think this is a very good post and a very good point. I'm not sure where the hostility is coming from. This is the way a lot of people think.

Personally, my tastes run to training for events and to improve at sports, and all of my training feeds back to that. If I quit my sport tomorrow I'd find another to train for. I can't ever imagine myself just in a gym, training so I could go to the gym. I would be bored senseless.

I would say that not only would a lot of girls not want to come into a gym and deadlift, but a lot of guys wouldn't either.

Banji

Money Shot wrote: »

A general point, and definitely not aimed at the above post, but assuming we're talking about the average gym goer - does nobody play actual sports to keep fit anymore ?

Don't see any of the internet experts on here ever recommending cycling, tennis, football, swimming, basketball, boxing, etc. it's usually starting strenght, compounds and intervals for cardio (if you have to)

A lot of people, especially women, just don't want to be in a gym deadlifting or bench pressing. It's just not something they will enjoy or keep doing - the social side of sports can keep people interested and in good shape. Some people are more interested in the overall health benefits and social side of keeping fit rather than the aesthetics of 'being ripped' or 'huge', which dominates this forum.

Training implies preparing your body for sport. Most people don't train for a sport as such, they just train. One of the fittest people I know never goes to the gym - he plays tennis once a week, five a side once a week, swims once a week, cycles to work five days a week, does a few push ups/sit ups when the mood takes him, goes for the odd run when the mood takes him.

Can't remember what my point was - oh yeah, this is a fitness forum, not a gym forum.

There's a whole category on boards with many forums dedicated to specific sports. There is also a general sports forum.

Transform

wow stunning!!!

Now show me where she is a bulky freak, plus she is possibly lifting more than you weigh!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImVu5bPfv0E

EileenG

Magic Eight Ball wrote: »

But everytime a woman deadlifts an angel gets it's wings.

Plus, all the non-wussy guys in the gym get seriously turned on.

SpookyBastard

I really hate the bulky women thing. C'mon, there are examples in every gym, everyday of women working hard and yet they don't look like Arnie. On a side note, what if they did? Can we try not to come up with lists of how women (and men) should look?

(Apologies mods if this is kinda off topic at this stage...)

Transform

Overall on the girls side of things - 60-70% of my clients are female and love it. All aged somewhere between 16yrs to 66 yrs old and yes they are all deadlifting as its a movement they will do for the rest of their life in day to day activities.

I never see any struggle to get the message across and if they do not like it then thats cool as going and doing activities they enjoy are important but do not come bitching to me that aqua aerobics or your salsa is not cutting it for fat loss later on.

Some activity is better than none and some activities are much better than others